PDA

View Full Version : One more time about tracer colour....



GH_Klingstroem
07-03-2005, 06:37 AM
is it correct?! should .50cals really be that red and should german 20mm cannon really be that blue and should russian weapons be green!? I have never seen that in any other game... I have been playing this game since nov. 2001 and have always thought that it looked stupid.. Why do I never see that anywhere else on any color pics from WW2?! ( I know that ww2 quality on pics arent always the best but anyway...)
well can someone show me some pictures of blue tracers for example?! and why did they use them instead of normal orange?!
cheers!

FritzGryphon
07-03-2005, 06:40 AM
I remember a reference in "Swastica in the Gunsight" describing green tracer for Shkas. And you can watch any video of M2 shooting to see red. Never seen any for MG151 yet, always B/W.

But I agree, the tracers themselves seem too apparent, particularly in broad daylight.

I've read them described as balls, pearls, golf balls, dots, points, never as laser beams.

But then, this was before Star Wars came out (or lasers, for that matter), so they wouldn't have a frame of reference http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Huckebein_UK
07-03-2005, 07:36 AM
I'm pretty sure the colours are historically accurate; it was one of the first things that impressed me in a review of the original Il-2.

Viking-S
07-03-2005, 07:43 AM
"In US and NATO standard ammunition this is usually a mixture of strontium salts and a metal fuel such as magnesium. This yields a bright red light. Russian and Chinese tracer ammunition generates green light using barium salts."



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracer_ammunition

Freelancer-1
07-03-2005, 08:01 AM
Correct or not. I say, "don't look a gift horse in the mouth".

There are few enough visual cues in this game as to what side those fuzzy spots in the distance might belong to. Imagine if the tracers were all the same color. You'd have a hell of a time trying to figure out how to approach a dogfight in progress.

Freelancer

73GIAP_Milan
07-03-2005, 09:45 AM
perhaps they are the correct colors but they are waay too bright?

especially the green Shkas 'lasers'..
My GUESS is that they would appear more like flashes.. in daylight less bright and less lasershaped..

In a book i have called: Farewell Mickey Mouse - by Len Deighton, the tracers are described more like "wires" or "lines" ..

Messaschnitzel
07-03-2005, 12:04 PM
This is slightly OT. when FritzGryphon mentioned the different descriptions used for the tracers, I recalled an incident when I was about 9-10 years old back in the early 1970's. I was visiting at a friend's house when at some point my friend's father, who was drunk and asleep in a chair suddenly sat bolt upright and yelled " I've got big tennis balls coming at me!" and then leaned forward and began to cry.
I then leaned over to my friend and asked what the heck was that all about. He replied that his father was a pilot in Viet Nam and he was having a dream about them shooting at him. On another visit, I happened to see a polaroid of a light Cessna type plane and asked what it was. My friend replied that it was his dad's plane while he was in the service. I thought to myself, "that's the kind of plane he flew? I thought that he would be a fighter pilot or something." Years later, I found out what his job really was...to draw enemy fire and locate the AA positions for bombardment. This guy had to have titanium balls for this job, and my hat's off to him!

JG7_Rall
07-03-2005, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Messaschnitzel:
This is slightly OT. when FritzGryphon mentioned the different descriptions used for the tracers, I recalled an incident when I was about 9-10 years old back in the early 1970's. I was visiting at a friend's house when at some point my friend's father, who was drunk and asleep in a chair suddenly sat bolt upright and yelled " I've got big tennis balls coming at me!" and then leaned forward and began to cry.
I then leaned over to my friend and asked what the heck was that all about. He replied that his father was a pilot in Viet Nam and he was having a dream about them shooting at him. On another visit, I happened to see a polaroid of a light Cessna type plane and asked what it was. My friend replied that it was his dad's plane while he was in the service. I thought to myself, "that's the kind of plane he flew? I thought that he would be a fighter pilot or something." Years later, I found out what his job really was...to draw enemy fire and locate the AA positions for bombardment. This guy had to have titanium balls for this job, and my hat's off to him!

Wow, incredible story. My hat's off to him as well!

Bearcat99
07-03-2005, 03:29 PM
As far as the color goes it is correct. Keep in mind that film will not reproduce what the eye sees 100%. From all accounts I have read it is correct. I even remember seeing guncam footage from a German plane and the little swirly smoke trails were there. Also look at any guncam footage of Spitfires....

VW-IceFire
07-03-2005, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by GH_Klingstroem:
is it correct?! should .50cals really be that red and should german 20mm cannon really be that blue and should russian weapons be green!? I have never seen that in any other game... I have been playing this game since nov. 2001 and have always thought that it looked stupid.. Why do I never see that anywhere else on any color pics from WW2?! ( I know that ww2 quality on pics arent always the best but anyway...)
well can someone show me some pictures of blue tracers for example?! and why did they use them instead of normal orange?!
cheers!
When I saw my first colorized photos from WWII of .50cal tracers I remarked that they were yellow and why didn't we have the much cooler yellow tracers? Turns out that the colorized film didn't pick up bright colors too well and the colors subsequently changed.

I've since seen colorized gun footage from the PTO (mostly Hellcats firing at Zeros) and the tracers are indeed bright red and they look like lasers.

The problem with the tracers we have right now are:
1) They sometimes seem too well defined and short
2) They should probably be semi-translucent
3) They should have a blur applied to them so we never see them in focus
4) They should burn out quickly

I've never seen ShKAS or MG151/20 tracers but I'm told they were indeed bright green and quite a spectacle to be seen.

FI_Willie
07-03-2005, 04:06 PM
Nothing like sittin on a cr@pper and watchin GREEN tracers float across in front of you from N Vietnamese .51's.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

megalagon
07-03-2005, 04:25 PM
If your at the "safe end" of a rifle and w/ night vision, tracers will look a little like "laser beams". One streak of light every other second, depends on the weapon being fired.

And the reason different color tracers are used is to differentiate between friendly or foe. :i.e. You squad's walking along a road and you see red tracer rounds going across the road up ahead. You'd know who was firing and where their firing to.

GH_Klingstroem
07-04-2005, 02:52 AM
ok in that case the this discussuion is ended... Oleg is right one more time!

Jaws2002
07-04-2005, 07:21 AM
Here is a refference site:


In game even MG151/15 compared with MG151/20 is right:
http://free-st.htnet.hr/dvd/Weapons.html

JZG-Pedro
07-04-2005, 07:44 AM
Yea, Im with him too... these tracers are way too bright and thick. This must be only me, but I also feel like all rounds are just too slow... firing the MG15 in a stuka feels like those using toy guns that shoot big plastic balls.

Ok that WWII color footage ain't that good on quality, but still, it shows clearly all rounds much sleeker and less bright. You can notice that in nowaday's combat footage as well.

Not that I'm *****ing about it, it is indeed a tiny thing compared to the awesome sim IL2 is and doesn't hamper gaming at all, but, we can always improve, can't we?

LStarosta
07-04-2005, 10:00 AM
Jesus... How long till it gets through people's thick skulls that you CANNOT USE FILM TO SEE HOW TRACERS LOOKED LIKE IN REAL LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oleg made the stupid mistake of doing that with muzzle flashes earlier in the game. It's because muzzle flashes looked enormous on film, but it wasn't exactly like that in real life.

tjaika1910
07-04-2005, 12:50 PM
Laser do not look like it does in Star Wars. If the tracers looks like that it is definitly not looking like laser (you cant see something with the speed of light move around in pulses)