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View Full Version : Question on the VEF about rules...



XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 01:14 AM
I was flying a VEF mission not 10 minutes ago, and heres what happened...

First I was flying a 109 F2 I BnZ'ed a I-16 and it was my first air to air kill where my target exploded. I really pumped it full of ammo. He was on my wingmans tail which made it feel all the better. It was one solid burst too with low deflection.

Anyway then I start BnZ'ing another I-16. I made a BnZ pass and hammered him, and split away before I collided.
I zoomed back up, and came around and down.
There was his shoot floating out in front of me. I didn't realize I had gotten the kill. I don't think his aircraft had hit the ground yet anyway.

So I fired a round into his chute and killed him. Anyway all the VVS folks called me a cheater. The OKL folks said it was simply rude. Then they went on talking about blacklisting me even though I apologized. Then they said I should read the rules before playing.

Yet I've read the rules on the VEF webpage and there's no mention of it being against the rules to shoot down pilots in parachutes. I thought it was just war. So I did.

Anyway whats the scoop? Is this some unwritten rule?

Every take-off is optional, but every landing is mandatory!

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 01:14 AM
I was flying a VEF mission not 10 minutes ago, and heres what happened...

First I was flying a 109 F2 I BnZ'ed a I-16 and it was my first air to air kill where my target exploded. I really pumped it full of ammo. He was on my wingmans tail which made it feel all the better. It was one solid burst too with low deflection.

Anyway then I start BnZ'ing another I-16. I made a BnZ pass and hammered him, and split away before I collided.
I zoomed back up, and came around and down.
There was his shoot floating out in front of me. I didn't realize I had gotten the kill. I don't think his aircraft had hit the ground yet anyway.

So I fired a round into his chute and killed him. Anyway all the VVS folks called me a cheater. The OKL folks said it was simply rude. Then they went on talking about blacklisting me even though I apologized. Then they said I should read the rules before playing.

Yet I've read the rules on the VEF webpage and there's no mention of it being against the rules to shoot down pilots in parachutes. I thought it was just war. So I did.

Anyway whats the scoop? Is this some unwritten rule?

Every take-off is optional, but every landing is mandatory!

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 02:11 AM
There actually has been a rule for some years about shooting a parachuting pilot. However, I do NOT remember where it is penned, but I have always known of a law/rule/something or other stating you can't shoot a pilot in a chute, however, that's in real life.

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 03:53 AM
Hi.

first of all:

if you want to ask about vef rules go to the vef page. there you'll find all the rules, tactical stuff and a forum

2nd shooting pilots at their chute is not really a sign of honor.

3rd and this goes to all the ppl (especially OKL hosts and cohosts): Read that tactical page and inform yourself about what is important to attack!!!!. there are soooo many missions where the host or cohost sends bombers or recons to unnecessary targets. all that counts are the supplies and the main army group. all other soldier symbols are unimportant and are not even counted in the main VEF war stats. so if you bomb a town which doesn't contain the main force or the supplies for main army (you see that by moving your mouse over the tactical situation page) you'll get your own stats up but it doesn't help the main campaign at all.

so maybe all VEF players who never read the forums or tactics page should do that:

you can find it here:

http://www.yogysoft.de/VEFII/main.htm

2 things we need in FB:
The 110 and the desert!!!
http://exn.ca/news/images/1999/04/23/19990423-Me110coloursideMAIN.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 04:13 AM
I did read the rules as I said above I didn't see that rule in there. Anyway I bumped into my squad leader. He said there is no rule against it, but people simply get really offended.

It's not something I normally do anyway. Just happened as I can back around it was there. I mean right there in front of me. Just tapped the trigger two rounds fired, and down it went.

Yet it kind of put a damper on my two good kills. Especially since I got both kills and there were 4 OKL pilots there counting myself.



Every take-off is optional, but every landing is mandatory!

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 04:27 AM
Congrats on your two kills. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Let the others whine, next time they should think before they bail out too early - what makes them entitled to a free trip to earth?

This isn't a circus simulation you're flying in, it's a war simulation. Take yourself back to 1942, getting your country taken over by the Germans, that bastard (no offense) jumps out of his plane, I'm going to make sure he can never get into another one.

Answer me this whiners, is it okay for ground troops to shoot at paratroopers as they are falling to earth? Yeah, I don't think that ever happened in real life either, did it?


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XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 09:48 AM
I don't know if any of you have served in the US military recently. I currently serve in the USAF, and there are certain breifings *groan* I have to attend and get refreshed on every year. One of them is the Law of Armed Conflict, (LOAC) set down by the Geneva Conventions in 1949 to standardize how countries and individuals are supposed to fight a war, namely because of autrocities commited in WW2. Many of these concepts had been in practice already, but this spelled it out for everyone.

Paratroopers are legit targets because they are an assult force. So are naval troop transports.

People in life boats and hospital ships are not combatants, and therefore not military targets. Aircrew who bail out are not legit, because they are no longer fighting, and have effectively surrendered, unless, of course, they pull out their .45 and start blasting, they then become fighters and targets once more.

I'm not passing judgement, and LOAC came out after the war. This is just FYI.

Good hunting,
Cajun76

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 04:07 PM
I personally think it is wrong to do it. but I wouldn't whine if it happened, like someone said, its a war simulation, so there will be bastards around.

Hopperfly, I interpret your action as you saw something in your sights and just twitched the trigger.

I wouldn't do it, virtually or otherwise.

Another thing perhaps is maybe there should be no communication between VVS and OKL in VEF missions. perhaps the annominity of battle should remain.

as to what some one said about not wanting to let the guy get back in another plane, think of it this way......

You have a 109 on your six, your throwing your kite around, stamping the rudder pedals heaving on the stick, the 109 pilot however is too good, he just keeps picking at you, you can feel the sensitivity run out of the controlls, as damage reaps it's havoc on the aerodynamic properties of your aircraft. You decide it would be a good time to leave, you unhook your oxygen hose and radio lead, undo your straps, and heave the canopy open, the 109 seems to be out of cannon, but is still pouring machine gun fire into your plane, you stand on the seat, kick the stick, and pop out. the 109 flashes under you, and you pull your ripcord.

The chute blossoms, you think youve made it, your twisting your head to find the 109, you spot him, coming around, his nose points exactly at you and you fear the worst, your looking down the barrel of two 7.62mm machine guns, and your a sitting duck, your twisting frantically in your harness trying to move, the 109 is boring in on you, you can hear it's engine screaming, sweat beads down your face,he comes closer he's onow only 100m away, you see the muzzle flash and feel a great burning pain in your gut, the chute collapses above you, and you can't scream because your lungs have been punctured, you see the ground rush up at you........

and that's it. Hardly fair is it.

If you can read that, and genuinly imagine your there, and not feel the sense of helplessness, and the terror you would be in, then your either not human, or a lieing bastard.

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 04:50 PM
There's a VEF forum on Netwings.org. Go there and explain what happened. Sounds as if you made an honest mistake.

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XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 05:59 PM
CHEATER!!!!!!



kidding. Some people need to loosen up a little. It's a game.

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XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 10:52 PM
War IS hell!

I feel that a pilot who shoots parachuting pilots to be a flyer with little honor. This is a sim not real life. I can understand in RL shooting pilots who had bailed out as they could not return another day and kill you or your countrymen. However, a parachuting pilot is unable to be a combatant (unless as stated before they pull out their pistol and start shooting) and should therefore (in the virtual world) be considered the same way an unarmed, surrendering soldier would.

In the early days of WW I fighter combat, pilots had much honor, saluting each other when their ammo ran out, stop being the aggressor if their opponents ammo ran out even if they still had rounds left, and even going as far as landing next to the plane they had just shot down to help a wounded pilot to a farmhouse to get medical attention or taking their dogtag/identification/medals and dropping them over the enemy base so that they could be properly rememberd.

That is the kind of honor I fly with and would hope that all other pilots fly with.

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