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View Full Version : Which Corsair do you prefer, F4UC or F4UD?



drose01
02-13-2007, 01:07 AM
Would anyone here take the F4UD over the F4UC, when selecting a plane for online combat or dogfight missions? Either for historical Japanese opponents OR a mixed enemy planeset?

In online dogfight servers, the only F4Us I see are the C, with 4 20mm cannon. Compared to the F4UD with 6 .50 calibers, the C packs a profoundly more powerful punch. Performance difference feels neglible- in IL2 compare, there are tiny advantages to the D in turn time and climb rate.

But while noone seems to want to take the F4UD in game, in real life, things were the opposite. Noone apparently wanted the F4UC- only 200 were made, and they were hardly used. From Wikipedia:


F4U-1C: This variant was in production in 1943, but was only introduced in combat during 1945, most notably in the Okinawa campaign. Intended for ground-attack as well as fighter missions, the F4U-1C was similar to the F4U-1A but its armament was replaced by 4x 20 mm (0.79") Hispano M2 cannons, each containing 231 rounds [4] of ammunition. The variant was very rare as only 200 were built. This was due to the fact that pilots preferred the standard armament of six .50 calibre machine guns since they were already more than powerful enough to destroy most Japanese aircraft, yet had more ammunition and a better firing rate.

Historical pilots chose the F4UD, in game pilots choose the F4UC. I think this discrepancy points to a shortcoming in the accuracy of the way these planes and their weapons are modeled in the game.

Akronnick
02-13-2007, 01:21 AM
The United States Navy Bureau of Aeronautics chose the F4U-1D over the -1C, not the pilots. Part of the reason may have been that the 20mm cannons were not as readily available as the M2 Browning .50, but six .50's remained standard armament for US fighters, Air Force and Navy, until the Korean War, so it may have been institutional doctrine. In any case, the F4U-1D did OK against the forces of the Empire of Japan, As did the F6F, the P-40 and the P-51, all of which were armed with six .50's

Stackhouse25th
02-13-2007, 01:30 AM
i prefer the D over the C. less horsepower diff guns etc. the D is a great plane.

KIMURA
02-13-2007, 02:06 AM
Depends on what a/c you have to shoot down. If your contrahent is a N1K2-J then chose a C-model, for all other IJN/JAAF a/c I do prefer the D all the time.

WOLFMondo
02-13-2007, 03:09 AM
.50's make them burn. Against armoured aircraft I much prefer cannons.

thefruitbat
02-13-2007, 05:56 AM
corsair mk 1, then at least you can see behind you http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

cheers fruitbat

tigertalon
02-13-2007, 06:14 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
.50's make them burn. Against armoured aircraft I much prefer cannons.

Actually they don't as they should. Structure failure is much more likely. If 8 out of 10 of your .50 cal victims are going down for a reason different than being on fire, something is very wrong.

It is a weapon and not damage modelling, since light MGs lit planes up easily. I hope this gets fixed in the last patch.

Reposting the 4.071 test since things haven't changed any (from my observations):


Dual .50 cals (any other heavy MG has similar effect):

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s307/TigerTalon/th_M2_fighters.jpg (http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s307/TigerTalon/?action=view&current=M2_fighters.flv)


Dual light MG ShKAS (again, any other Light MG will lit things up easily):

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s307/TigerTalon/th_ShKAS_fighters.jpg (http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s307/TigerTalon/?action=view&current=ShKAS_fighters.flv)

Diablo310th
02-13-2007, 06:40 AM
tigertalon...I'm with you. Let's hope that all this evidence on the 50's causing fires gets fixed in the next patch. I hope enough has been shown to Oleg to justify it's being changed. api-api-api-api-apit is what we need as well as the fire causing capabilities of the hmg.

M2morris
02-13-2007, 06:45 AM
I use the C model mostly because I like the effects of the 20mm guns, but I use the D once in a while if I want to use the big tinytim missiles for ground attack, altho I dont think the tinytims were available during ww2. What I have been doing latley is: I take off alone offline from a carrier in a C model packing bombs to the max, I hit a ground target in Nago while 3 KI 61s chase me as I drop my bombs on the target from low level with a 7 second delay. When the bombs go off I usually take out one of the fighters behind me.
As I fight off rest off I also have 2 KI 84s escorting 2 G4M bombers coming in from the west going to attack my carrier. My mission is to destroy the AAA in Nago (whirblwinds W/Japanese ) stop the bombers, kill or fight off all the AI ace fighters and get back to the carrier. I like the C model because of those big guns but I have made it back alive in the D model too. BTW OT: I set conditions for 1800hrs with poor weather and the scenary looks beautiful.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/planegeek/Corsair_animatedgif.gif

Corsair_Fanatic
02-13-2007, 08:53 AM
I prefer the F4U-1C, but thats just because I like cannons over machine guns. I'll be the first to admit that my skills with either the -1C or the -1D are pretty poor, but I keep flying it anyway.

Marcel_Albert
02-13-2007, 09:01 AM
I almost always fly the D model , most common version , great a/c , brownings are good for deflection shooting and 6 MG is more than enough against almost anything Japanese you meet , if you shoot at convergence .

general_kalle
02-13-2007, 09:07 AM
depends on the target.

if its paper planes as Zero i prefer rapid firing 50 cals but if its armoroud planes and bombers i prefer the big 20mm.

but 50 cal does it also against armour

Bearcat99
02-13-2007, 10:14 AM
If ground pounding I preder the D... the 50s do better straffing IMO.. The Cs are ok.. but I also like the Ds because they are more of a challenge. IMO it is easier when you have a plane with cannons... all it takes is one good hit. The real test of skill comes from flying a plane with effective but not one shot kill weapons and being able to maintain TA long enough to take the target down. Any rookie can climb into a Ki-84C or F4U-C or that 109.. I forgot which one... the one with the exploding shells.... and take down targets. Do it in a D.. or a 84A.. or an Emil or a Tony.... then IMO you ae saying something about your skill.

drose01
02-13-2007, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
I also like the Ds because they are more of a challenge. IMO it is easier when you have a plane with cannons... all it takes is one good hit. The real test of skill comes from flying a plane with effective but not one shot kill weapons...
Exactly my experience! The F4UC shreds the opposition, much much more effectively than the F4UD, Zeroes and everything else too.

My point is, that if this were the HISTORICAL experience, then the USN would have chosen the F4UC.


Originally posted by Akronnick:
The United States Navy Bureau of Aeronautics chose the F4U-1D over the -1C, not the pilots. Part of the reason may have been that the 20mm cannons were not as readily available as the M2 Browning .50...
If this were the case, wouldn't we be reading something like "The F4U was equipped with .50 caliber machine guns because although 20 mm canon were found to be far superior, they were not readily available."

Instead we read things like (from Bill Gunston's Fighting Aircraft of WW2):

Designed by Rex Beisel and Igor Sikorsky, the inverted gull-wing Corsair was one of the greatest combat aircraft in history.

TgD Thunderbolt56
02-13-2007, 11:29 AM
I like'em both, but fly the "D" almost exclusively.

fordfan25
02-13-2007, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by Akronnick:
The United States Navy Bureau of Aeronautics chose the F4U-1D over the -1C, not the pilots. Part of the reason may have been that the 20mm cannons were not as readily available as the M2 Browning .50, but six .50's remained standard armament for US fighters, Air Force and Navy, until the Korean War, so it may have been institutional doctrine. In any case, the F4U-1D did OK against the forces of the Empire of Japan, As did the F6F, the P-40 and the P-51, all of which were armed with six .50's lol thay did better than "OK"

MAILMAN------
02-13-2007, 01:30 PM
As was stated at the beginning only 200 F4U-1C were built. They had frequent jamming problems with the guns freezing above 12,000 feet and were restricted to below this altitude until they got gun heaters installed. Offline I have gotten every JAAF & JNAF plane to burn with the .50 caliber Browning M2 especially quickly with the six wing gun versions. With the 4.08 igniting the George and Jack was much easier than prior versions. Online will be different because you probably aren't hitting the target with as many bullets as you think (see on your computer) at the critical location due to packet loss.

The F4U-4, which we don't have in the game and was specifically designed to combat late war Japanese aircraft, had six .50 Caliber MG. It was being received by the fleet in late 1944, but made its combat debut at Okinawa in the spring of 1945 along with the F4U-1C. 20mm cannon versions of the F4U-4 were built and designated -4B & -4C, one being built on the assembly line as 20mm cannon and the other being conveted from .50 cal. to 20 mm cannon. There were more F4U-4 built than F4U-4B & -4C. There were even some F6F-5 fitted with two 20mm cannon and four .50 caliber mg.

Keep one thing in mind. 20 mm cannon were slower firing than machine guns, the rounds were heavier and had a more curved trajectory which made them ideal for destroying less maneuverable aircraft such as bombers and could take down a fighter with a single round in the right spot. The .50 caliber machine guns had a flat trajectory and a faster firing rate which is what you wanted when shooting at a fast and maneuverable fighter. Saburo Sakai stated that even though the 20mm packed a wallop they were unreliable and he got most of his kills with his twin machine guns.

VW-IceFire
02-13-2007, 02:52 PM
We should make this a poll...but the F4U-1D is my preferred model most of the time. If its fighting in a European theater for some reason then the 1C is the better option due to firepower but the 1D is better in the Pacific because its slightly lighter and thus a little better handling. Also deflection shooting against Japanese planes (which are almost always in a turn) is much easier with the .50cals than with the slower firing Hispano's.

Viper2005_
02-13-2007, 03:24 PM
Historical pilots chose the F4UD, in game pilots choose the F4UC. I think this discrepancy points to a shortcoming in the accuracy of the way these planes and their weapons are modeled in the game.

Possibly, but don't forget that people fly differently in games than IRL. The urge to "land your points" is for many far stronger than the urge to survive, and therefore to kill online you often need to literally blow your opponent out of the sky.

If dying really hurt in game, you'd see a lot more parachutes and a lot more pilots flying Mustangs, even without modifications to the incendiary power of the various HMGs...

TAW_Oilburner
02-13-2007, 07:43 PM
If you have the "Corsair Experience" DVD set you'll remember this portion. One of the vets was talking about having landed and damaged a gear due to a blown tire. I haven't watched it in a while so my recollection is fuzzy, but basically he was only one of three in the squadron with a -C (all others had the -D). There was no time to get a tug to drag it to the elevator or something like that(basically time was of the essence as the pattern was stacked) so they pushed it overboard. He said he was yelling and arguing with the deck crew the whole time they were pushing it towards the edge begging them not to do it because he loved the 20's.