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biltongbru
11-15-2009, 11:40 PM
Sadly, a historic twin engined, two-seater English Electric Lightning crashed this week end at an air show in South Africa (not far fro where I live). Here some pictures:

http://www.news24.com/Content/...sh%20in%20Bredasdorp (http://www.news24.com/Content/Galleries/Image/Images/MyNews24/Jet%20crash%20in%20Bredasdorp)

This was one of the last 2 serviceable 2 seater Lightnings in the world, capable of reaching mach 2.2.

The sad part of this is that the experienced ex Air Force pilot reported in a calm manner firstly that the engines malfunction, then he reported ejection seat malfunction whereupon he asked the air traffic controller to tell all people close to him that he loves them all…

JG52Uther
11-16-2009, 12:06 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Choctaw111
11-16-2009, 05:46 AM
That is very sad.
Judging by the pilots last words, he seems to be a man that will be missed by many.

TheGrunch
11-16-2009, 08:06 AM
That is so sad. What a tribute to the man's strength of character that those last transmissions were made so calmly. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
When I was a child I was lucky enough to see one of the last flights of the last serviceable de Havilland Mosquito at an airshow in Lille. I only discovered a couple of years ago that on its next flight near London it had crashed, killing the pilot and co-pilot due to one engine failing during an aerobatic manoeuvre. Always very saddening to hear things like that.

Kettenhunde
11-16-2009, 08:35 AM
What a tribute to the man's strength of character that those last transmissions were made so calmly.

What a sad thing. My heart goes out to the friends and family.

That is what I always pray for when I fly. If something ever happens and the situation is hopeless, I don't want the NTSB report to read, "Screamed like a girl all the way to the ground."

TheGrunch
11-16-2009, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by Kettenhunde:
I don't want the NTSB report to read, "Screamed like a girl all the way to the ground."
I don't think anyone would blame you if you did, to be honest. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Gibbage1
11-16-2009, 03:00 PM
I have heard a lot of cockpit flight recordings from aircraft that went down, and I have only heard 1 that was not professional and calm to the very last moment. It was a middle eastern airliner (Iran?) that went down, with both pilots praying to Allah instead of prepairing for the ditch. NTSB blamed passanger loss on the pilots.

doraemil
11-16-2009, 07:04 PM
wow, condolences, will pray for him . . .

I heard the british lightning the pilots didn't want to give it up when they were retiring it because it was a great plane.

Viper2005_
11-16-2009, 09:51 PM
I was going to dispose of my disposable income by taking one of Thunder City's T.5s for a supersonic joy ride to celebrate the completion of my PhD. in a little less than a year.

I am shocked.

Not so much by the loss of the aircraft, because Lightnings had a have a long history of giving up, especially due to either reheat or hydraulic trouble; they pushed the technology of their time well beyond the limits, taking the RAF from subsonic Hunters to roughly Mach 2, and a thrust:weight ratio sufficiently close to unity that they were still kinematically competitive against F-16s and the like in 1988 when the axe finally fell (albeit with a 6 g limit, no ECM and a cockpit workload the likes of which has probably never been seen before or since, takeoff taking place in what for most American jets would be considered a fuel emergency condition).

But the idea of Messrs. Martin & Baker's rocket assisted armchairs failing to perform as advertised chills me to the core.

And yes doraemil, it was a great plane. See Ian Black's great book on the subject:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Last-L...-Black/dp/075093073X (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Last-Lightnings-Ian-Black/dp/075093073X)

Alternatively, just look at it, and marvel at the numbers, and the ambition that set the wheels in motion in a world where 600 mph represented something close to the state of the art.

NuMcA_of_CS
11-18-2009, 09:43 PM
How unfortunate.. R.I.P. for the pilot. I am sad to realize that warbirds still kill. I hope this does not put-off people from demonstrating the flyable warbirds, but make the work more consciously on preserving them SAFE and flyable..

Woke_Up_Dead
11-19-2009, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Gibbage1:
It was a middle eastern airliner (Iran?) that went down, with both pilots praying to Allah instead of prepairing for the ditch. NTSB blamed passanger loss on the pilots.

Tunisian. (http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/25/court-in-italy-convicts-pilot-who-prayed-before-crash/)

Gibbage1
11-19-2009, 09:18 PM
Thanks Woke Up. I didnt know the veridct of the case against the pilot. Very sad, but im glad they came down hard on him and the company.

mortoma
11-20-2009, 06:54 PM
Bad news....I take it the Lightning does not have much for a glide ratio?? I mean all the happened was an engine flame-out, right? Do they drop like a rock? Or did the hydraulics go too??

Bremspropeller
11-21-2009, 05:34 AM
L/D ratios for high-speed fighters vary from 5.4 (Starfighter with T/O-flaps) to about 10.
That is at L/Dmax, of course, not slower or faster.


Not sure if the Lightning has a RAT (does anyone know?), but generally when the engones go and won't relight, the nylon-descend is always to favor.
Even if it's YOUR money that's gonna end in a fireball in contrast to the taxpayers'.

AWL_Spinner
11-22-2009, 11:26 PM
But the idea of Messrs. Martin & Baker's rocket assisted armchairs failing to perform as advertised chills me to the core.


The seat in the Lightning won't fire unless the canopy has been ejected (certainly in the two seater), this was likely a failure of the canopy ejection mechanism rather than the bang seat itself; with no-one in the second seat to assist with a manual canopy release and little altitude and time in which to perform a lot of work, the poor chap had little chance.

Wasn't a flame-out, as far as I'm aware, I believe it was a hydraulic or other control system failure, the thing was barely flyable but he made sure it went in away from the airport crowd.

Tragic http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Cape Times Tribute (http://www.capetimes.co.za/?fSectionId=&fArticleId=vn20091122081312881C369076)

Blottogg
11-23-2009, 07:16 AM
Thanks for the info Spinner. It sounds like the seat works like a F-16, with no through-canopy option. I'd brief the guys that if the seat didn't go, your options (from fore to aft) were the canopy switch, the jettison T-handle, and the manual crank, depending on how much of your arm you wanted to lose. If you got the canopy off, the seat would fire immediately. I don't know if the Lightning was rigged similarly, but it sounds like it. Too much to do with not enough time/altitude.

I hadn't followed developments at Thunder Jets recently, but they'd always been the model of my "if I win the lottery" plan.

S! Dave Stock.

p1ngu666
11-24-2009, 06:56 AM
RIP http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Bremspropeller
11-24-2009, 01:28 PM
Wasn't a flame-out, as far as I'm aware

Certainly not:

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/6562/zubexonfire.jpg

Gibbage1
11-24-2009, 01:53 PM
Ya. Thats a bad thing. Good photo. Maybe a blade broke free, cutting the fuel lines. It looks like a lot of fure and hot gases are escaping from places they should not.