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View Full Version : Are the YP-80 and the F-86 similar?



The_Stealth_Owl
10-23-2009, 03:21 PM
Are they basicly the same? Witch one is more advanced and well, better?

Thanks.



P.S. I found a good plane for me. Its the IL-2. The fighter version. I am going to make an all-black on with the logo in my sig. But I can't find a good template. Very owlish plane. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Boosher
10-23-2009, 03:24 PM
Absolutely not. The F-86 represents a much farther advanced design than the YP-80. True, they were used concurrently in service and both represented big steps forward in American fighter design, but the F-86, I would argue, is a generation or more ahead of the P-80.

Xiolablu3
10-23-2009, 03:34 PM
As Boosher said, the F86 is streets ahead of the P80.

The P80 used a varaiation of the first generation of the British Jet engine and straight wing design.

The F86 was swept winged and used a much improved version of the Jet engine. It was a far superior design. It incorporated much of the captured German technology gained after WW2.

As for the representation in the sim, I am not sure, but the F86 should be quite a bit better in all but sustained turn rate. (possibly even better in sustained turn too if the F86 used leading edge slats, but I am not sure if it did or not?)

GrinderX9
10-23-2009, 03:34 PM
IL-2 the fighter version hehe http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ?

The_Stealth_Owl
10-23-2009, 03:38 PM
How does the F-86 compare to the Ta-183 then?

GrinderX9
10-23-2009, 03:40 PM
F-86 Much better then Ta-183. 200-300 km faster methinks...

b2spirita
10-23-2009, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by GrinderX9:
IL-2 the fighter version hehe http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ?

The Il-2 I prototype.

GrinderX9
10-23-2009, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by b2spirita:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GrinderX9:
IL-2 the fighter version hehe http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ?

The Il-2 I prototype. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dident know about that one, thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . From wikipedia: Il-2I
Armoured fighter, prototype only. Conception based on the several dogfights which Il-2 started against Luftwaffe bombers. Proved non-perspective due to only old Luftwaffe bombers could be caught by it.

The_Stealth_Owl
10-23-2009, 03:51 PM
Proved non-perspective due to only old Luftwaffe bombers could be caught by it.
Who said owls were fast? http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif


Owls are large, slow, hard-gitting stealthful birds.

GrinderX9
10-23-2009, 04:14 PM
eny one knwo of good warfilms whit F-86? I just found out about this: The Hunters (1958) whit Robert Mitchum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...z9Ng&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQAVbujz9Ng&feature=related)

The_Stealth_Owl
10-23-2009, 04:43 PM
Is the MiG-9 or the Ta-183 or the He-162 a match for the F-86? It says the Ta-183 is:

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt138/SILVERFISH1992/tA-183.jpg

thefruitbat
10-23-2009, 05:02 PM
No, the F86 is a second generation jet fighter, all the others you mentioned are first generation.

The mig 15 is what the f86 went up against, another second generation jet fighter, and they both have there strengths and close enough that the pilot and tactics will win.

Ta-183 didnt exist. at least not like in game.

The_Stealth_Owl
10-23-2009, 05:12 PM
would replace the first German jet fighters Messerschmitt Me 262 and Heinkel He 162.



Does that mean the Ta-183 was a 2nd generation if it was to replace planes?

VW-IceFire
10-23-2009, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by GrinderX9:
F-86 Much better then Ta-183. 200-300 km faster methinks...
Also we're talking about one aircraft (F-86) that was a mature combat tested aircraft that went through the prototype and then full production phase versus something that was sketched and designed out and was later found to have some serious design flaws that would have prevented it from flying successfully in its initial configuration.

Had aviation in Germany progressed into the late 1940s and early 1950s then certainly the Ta-183 could have morphed into something successful or something similar would have.

But if we just compare the sketched out drawing of a Ta183 versus a F-86... there's just such a gap in all respects. Didn't the design go on to inspire a somewhat average Argentinian jet fighter?

Freiwillige
10-23-2009, 05:19 PM
Actually the Ta-183 design was used as the starting basis of and evolved into the Mig 15.

Allies were not the only one to use captured German technology and German engineers!

The_Stealth_Owl
10-23-2009, 05:25 PM
Okay then. Whats the closest thing we have in IL2 that is a jet and is closest by advancedness and performance?

thefruitbat
10-23-2009, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by Freiwillige:
Actually the Ta-183 design was used as the starting basis of and evolved into the Mig 15.

Allies were not the only one to use captured German technology and German engineers!

was it?

they both a superficial resemblance, due to both having swep wings, apart from the visual element they are completly different.

Without doubt the soviets benifited from german tech, with regards to swep wing design, but just because the ta183 had swept wings, dosen't mean that the mig 15 was based on it.

thefruitbat
10-23-2009, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by The_Stealth_Owl:
Okay then. Whats the closest thing we have in IL2 that is a jet and is closest by advancedness and performance?

mig 15, which is what it went up against in korea.

The_Stealth_Owl
10-23-2009, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The_Stealth_Owl:
Okay then. Whats the closest thing we have in IL2 that is a jet and is closest by advancedness and performance?

mig 15, which is what it went up against in korea. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Compared to the F-86
In IL2

thefruitbat
10-23-2009, 05:38 PM
err, the mig 15, see here,

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...3110283/m/1441020797 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/1441020797)

The_Stealth_Owl
10-23-2009, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freiwillige:
Actually the Ta-183 design was used as the starting basis of and evolved into the Mig 15.

Allies were not the only one to use captured German technology and German engineers!

was it?

they both a superficial resemblance, due to both having swep wings, apart from the visual element they are completly different.

Without doubt the soviets benifited from german tech, with regards to swep wing design, but just because the ta183 had swept wings, dosen't mean that the mig 15 was based on it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


It is a thery that they were from the Ta-183.

The_Stealth_Owl
10-23-2009, 05:40 PM
I'm trying to find a plane like the F-86 without getting any mods.

thefruitbat
10-23-2009, 05:41 PM
well, you can't.

Treetop64
10-23-2009, 05:42 PM
Owl, do your own research.

There aren't any planes in unmodded IL-2 that compare to the F-86. The F-86 was built in a totally different era.

The_Stealth_Owl
10-23-2009, 05:43 PM
Is the MiG-9 more advanced then the P-80 in IL2?

The_Stealth_Owl
10-23-2009, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by Treetop64:
Owl, do your own research.

There aren't any planes in unmodded IL-2 that compare to the F-86. The F-86 was built in a totally different era.

I do a LOT of research. I am looking for opinions here.

thefruitbat
10-23-2009, 05:45 PM
than the p80 in il2, yes, but still the same gen.

The p80 in il2 isn't a p80 shooting star, it is the prototype, the yp80.

The_Stealth_Owl
10-23-2009, 05:48 PM
The Ta-183 dosn't apear in the "first generation" class. Just thought I'd let you know. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

thefruitbat
10-23-2009, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by The_Stealth_Owl:
The Ta-183 dosn't apear in the "first generation" class. Just thought I'd let you know. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

it didn't exist either. just thought i'd let you know http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The_Stealth_Owl
10-23-2009, 05:51 PM
I think the MiG-9 flew along side the MiG-15 in the korean war. Is this true?

M_Gunz
10-23-2009, 05:56 PM
IIRC from much info presented here before Kurt Tank did go to develop the 183 in Argentina was it?
It didn't work out.

b2spirita
10-23-2009, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
IIRC from much info presented here before Kurt Tank did go to develop the 183 in Argentina was it?
It didn't work out.


Yeah the catchily named FMA IAe 33 Pulqui II

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/df/Pulqui_II_04.jpg/300px-Pulqui_II_04.jpg

fabianfred
10-23-2009, 07:00 PM
The yp-80 is definately inferior to the Panther (mod) and the F-84 G1/2/3 (mod)... but the Sabre is hard put to keep up with the Mig-15(bis) (mod) ...as IRL

Wildnoob
10-23-2009, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by The_Stealth_Owl:
I think the MiG-9 flew along side the MiG-15 in the korean war. Is this true?

Owl, I recommend you take a look at view object section about the YP-80 and Mig-9. You'll find some interesting info there.

And Wikipedia as well:

P-80 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-80_Shooting_Star)

Mig-9 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiG-9)

The_Stealth_Owl
10-23-2009, 07:53 PM
Thanks for the help WN, but don't you think I already looked there? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The_Stealth_Owl
10-23-2009, 08:00 PM
Was the YP-80 all weather? Was the MiG-9? Was the Me-163?

PanzerAce
10-23-2009, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by Freiwillige:
Actually the Ta-183 design was used as the starting basis of and evolved into the Mig 15.

Allies were not the only one to use captured German technology and German engineers!

If you have *any* sources backing that up, I'd love to see them (no, really, I want to see them. Russian jet developments based on German tech was a *huge* hole in my senior thesis, and I'd love to get any info on that).

So far as I know, the Mig-15/F-86/Ta-183 thing was started during the cold war because people in the states had this idea that Russian theoretical knowledge of aerodynamics wasn't advanced enough to allow them to skip straight to swept wings (ignoring, of course, the speed at which they were able to adapt to jet engine tech in general to build the Mig-9).

There is, as far as I know, *no* evidence to support the idea that the russians stole the F-86 swept wing idea, or that it was even largely based on captured German technology.

Also, another clarification: Many of the Germans that ended up in Soviet hands were *not* what are usually known as engineers in the west. They more properly could be called technicians. They were the people in charge of turning engineering drawings and the like into actual machinery (or the operators of lathes/etc for making aeronautic equipment). The problem is that western vs. Russian title convention for various people and roles.

mortoma
10-23-2009, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
As Boosher said, the F86 is streets ahead of the P80.

The P80 used a varaiation of the first generation of the British Jet engine and straight wing design.

The F86 was swept winged and used a much improved version of the Jet engine. It was a far superior design. It incorporated much of the captured German technology gained after WW2.

As for the representation in the sim, I am not sure, but the F86 should be quite a bit better in all but sustained turn rate. (possibly even better in sustained turn too if the F86 used leading edge slats, but I am not sure if it did or not?) The P-80 of Korea had undergone improved engines and was not such a bad turner at low altitudes, also was generally never very good up high. And many think it was bad turner but with those straight wings it could probably turn as well or better than an F-86 could down low in thick air at lower speeds, despite slats on the Sabre. The Sabre would be better at high speed turn at any altitude and had an insane roll rate. If a Mig pilot got accidentally low and slow against a P-80, piloted by a good pilot, he very well could have gotten into serious trouble. A Thunderjet or Panther could do OK in such circumstances too but such opportunities didn't happen often. If the Panther was as good as it is in the modded game it would have been a world beater but I think it's a bit over-modeled!! Can't say that for a fact though, so don't hold me to that. The Migs had a job to do up high more often.

Wildnoob
10-23-2009, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by The_Stealth_Owl:
Thanks for the help WN, but don't you think I already looked there? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


I think the MiG-9 flew along side the MiG-15 in the korean war. Is this true?

I thougth perhaps not because this doubt. As this info is avaliable in the view object section.

But I am glad to be wrong. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

fabianfred
10-23-2009, 08:40 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...9Kxxd88s&feature=fvw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQL9Kxxd88s&feature=fvw)

Waldo.Pepper
10-24-2009, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by fabianfred:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...9Kxxd88s&feature=fvw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQL9Kxxd88s&feature=fvw)

Awesome. I had not seen that before. Too bad about the tune, but I guess it was a 'talkie' originally.

Many thanks.

fabianfred
10-24-2009, 01:52 AM
no..it was a comedy made to look like the old charlie chaplin kind of film....

Xiolablu3
10-24-2009, 02:01 AM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...9Kxxd88s&feature=fvw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQL9Kxxd88s&feature=fvw)

Awesome. I had not seen that before. Too bad about the tune, but I guess it was a 'talkie' originally.

Many thanks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought the tune was hilarious http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

yuuppers
10-24-2009, 06:08 AM
The USAF should thank the USN for the Sabre.

Waldo.Pepper
10-24-2009, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by fabianfred:
no..it was a comedy made to look like the old charlie chaplin kind of film....

Obviously. But don't you think that the music is a modern addition? I don't think it was added by the Moonshine Squadron during the 50's.

berg417448
10-24-2009, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:
no..it was a comedy made to look like the old charlie chaplin kind of film....

Obviously. But don't you think that the music is a modern addition? I don't think it was added by the Moonshine Squadron during the 50's. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed. The music is a speeded up version of the Roger Miller song "Whistle Stop" featured in the 1973 movie Robin Hood.

http://www.themadmusicarchive....ls.aspx?SongID=11317 (http://www.themadmusicarchive.com/song_details.aspx?SongID=11317)