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View Full Version : Internet "ace" popularity not fair



XyZspineZyX
10-19-2003, 09:05 AM
There is an article in New Scientist.com comparing WWI German aces and their popularity over the internet. It compares the number of web pages that mention each pilot with the number of planes the pilot shot down.

Rather than being directly proportional, the fame of each pilot increases exponentially with the number of planes he shot down. This means fame is not distributed fairly, at least among the 393 examples studied. This exponential increase will "blow up small differences in merit."

As an example: Manfred von Richthofen, the "Red Baron" shot down the most planes, 80. This is only 1.6% of the total planes shot down, but he has 27% of page hits. The 60 lowest-scoring pilots receive less recognition than they deserve. They shot down 5 planes each for 5.6% total a/c kills but received 2.6% of web page hits.

To me this is kind of interesting but not surprising at all. It does seem to give a reason for lack of perception and proportion concerning historical accuracy.



Message Edited on 10/19/0308:06AM by arcadeace

XyZspineZyX
10-19-2003, 09:05 AM
There is an article in New Scientist.com comparing WWI German aces and their popularity over the internet. It compares the number of web pages that mention each pilot with the number of planes the pilot shot down.

Rather than being directly proportional, the fame of each pilot increases exponentially with the number of planes he shot down. This means fame is not distributed fairly, at least among the 393 examples studied. This exponential increase will "blow up small differences in merit."

As an example: Manfred von Richthofen, the "Red Baron" shot down the most planes, 80. This is only 1.6% of the total planes shot down, but he has 27% of page hits. The 60 lowest-scoring pilots receive less recognition than they deserve. They shot down 5 planes each for 5.6% total a/c kills but received 2.6% of web page hits.

To me this is kind of interesting but not surprising at all. It does seem to give a reason for lack of perception and proportion concerning historical accuracy.



Message Edited on 10/19/0308:06AM by arcadeace

XyZspineZyX
10-19-2003, 09:14 AM
cos he was a triplane ace.

XyZspineZyX
10-19-2003, 09:25 AM
Its obvious you're way more perceptive than the writers of this article.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-19-2003, 09:28 AM
Everybody wants to turn tighter than I~153.

XyZspineZyX
10-21-2003, 02:14 PM
Bump they need to make this a sticky kind of thread.

XyZspineZyX
10-21-2003, 02:19 PM
And all this means?

"Well, then, I confess, it is my intention to commandeer one of these ships, pick up a crew in Tortuga, raid, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer my weasely black guts out!"

Captain Jack Sparrow
Pirates of the Carribean:Curse of the Black Pearl

XyZspineZyX
10-21-2003, 02:32 PM
Nobody cares about second or third best. Has been and always will be that way. You're either the best or you're not. Seems fair to me.

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XyZspineZyX
10-21-2003, 02:53 PM
He was an Alb ace long before he ever heard of a Fokker Triplane...

XyZspineZyX
10-21-2003, 04:30 PM
"cos he was a triplane ace"

Most of his kills were in the Albatross, sorry.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin - 1755



"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin - 1755

XyZspineZyX
10-21-2003, 04:45 PM
oh i might of forgotton to mention that when people search say google for "ww1 ace" or "german ace" etc they probably only go into the first say 3-5 sites, no doubt the article fails to mention that fact, its very hard to find any article that give FULL facts/information, examples tend to be extremes used in general hard to find unbiased and objective articles..... oops dribbling again sorry

Konigwolf

"Well, then, I confess, it is my intention to commandeer one of these ships, pick up a crew in Tortuga, raid, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer my weasely black guts out!"

Captain Jack Sparrow
Pirates of the Carribean:Curse of the Black Pearl

Cpt.LoneRanger
10-21-2003, 08:52 PM
Regardless of what you choose, name just one topic, that is judged equally by all mankind.

There's nothing.

Richthofen, Galland, Rall, Steinhoff, Boyington, Sakai, just to name some of WW2s aces were not just great pilots, but also legends, pushed by their stories far beyond the real men.

Refering to history and who was known for what, I don't think you'll necessarily remember those getting the highest scores, the most victories in a single dogfight, or whatever. You'll remember the whole story around the person, true or not.

It was just recently made public, that Richthofen was infact shot by soldiers from the ground, not in a dogfight. That's all part of these stories, as it is with the truth today.

You'll never know, what really happens. You just have to choose, which version you like more.

greets
Cpt.LoneRanger


http://www.cptloneranger.privat.t-online.de/SIG2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 10:01 PM
*bump* /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 10:19 PM
Style.
That's why most american aces are unknown in the more civilized world. Yeager may be the best known.


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prkl

Cpt.LoneRanger
10-22-2003, 10:26 PM
But even Yeager is better know for his speed-records. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

greets
Cpt.LoneRanger


http://www.cptloneranger.privat.t-online.de/SIG2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 12:25 AM
Everybody cares about Michael Jordan and nobody cares about Antoine Walker. Boo Hoo.

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 12:36 AM
They each had what it takes to become a popular legend to the masses. You don't see Western flick actors complaining "hey, howcome I'm not as famous as the Duke, when I act better?"

Legends are born. They're also made. But you can't make lemonade with oranges.





-----------
Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

"It's the machine, not the man." - Materialist, and proud of it!

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 12:51 AM
i read red baron went down, several parties could have got him

who was the german ace who got 40ish? he would take on anything
proved tobe his downfall :\
went up against 8 planes. ON his own or something

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 02:02 AM
Werner Voss, 48 kills, only 20 years old. Fought 7 British SE5a biplanes at once by himself. He put bullets into every one of them, all flown by aces. It took them 10 minutes to finally shoot down his Dr.I triplane.

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3./Jagdgeschwader 51
www.jg51.com</center> (http://www.jg51.com</center>)

Message Edited on 10/22/0306:11PM by Stecher_3.-JG51

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 02:12 AM
I don't understand where fairness comes into it. Nothing is really quite fair although we sometimes in some cases try to leaverage it out a bit to make it more equitable.

It is an interesting statistic but I do not see a linkage to historical accuracy. If a scholar is writing on WWI aces then regardless of general public popularity, if something is worth mention in his or her study then it is. Popularity is one thing but it sometimes has little to do with actual historical accuracy or lack of.

Strange connections made here. Overall, it is an interesting statistic. I wonder if a form of it applies to current day celebrities too.

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"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill