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View Full Version : Ubisoft Games -No CDW Allowed In Future?



SeminoleX
02-11-2005, 01:36 PM
I ran across this. Don't know what to make of it. Seems impossible,or at least improbable, since most systems these days have a CD write capability.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=33&threadid=1510493&enterthread=y

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I don't know how much of this is entirely true but here is goes... I was going to buy Chessmaster X for my kids, so I started reading up on it on the boards and in user reviews like at Amazon. A lot of comments showed up about the game not working if your system had a CDR or DVD writer as opposed to just a reader.

I couldn't believe this so I called Ubisoft's tech support and the tech confirmed that starting with this program, they were going to put this type of protection in all of their products from here on out. If their program detects hardware with burning capablility then it won't run on the installed machine. I told them that this didn't make sense since almost all new computers were equipped with, at least, a cd writer. His response was "well, it's too bad that a few bad guys had to ruin it for the rest but this in the only way that we can protect our products".

Has anyone else heard about this or do you think this guy is just yanking my chain? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

SeminoleX
02-11-2005, 01:36 PM
I ran across this. Don't know what to make of it. Seems impossible,or at least improbable, since most systems these days have a CD write capability.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=33&threadid=1510493&enterthread=y

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I don't know how much of this is entirely true but here is goes... I was going to buy Chessmaster X for my kids, so I started reading up on it on the boards and in user reviews like at Amazon. A lot of comments showed up about the game not working if your system had a CDR or DVD writer as opposed to just a reader.

I couldn't believe this so I called Ubisoft's tech support and the tech confirmed that starting with this program, they were going to put this type of protection in all of their products from here on out. If their program detects hardware with burning capablility then it won't run on the installed machine. I told them that this didn't make sense since almost all new computers were equipped with, at least, a cd writer. His response was "well, it's too bad that a few bad guys had to ruin it for the rest but this in the only way that we can protect our products".

Has anyone else heard about this or do you think this guy is just yanking my chain? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

VW-IceFire
02-11-2005, 01:51 PM
Not surprised....and its total BS although it validates my method of having a dedicated Rom drive and a dedicated burner drive.

I think something like 99% of any new computers that I've seen advertised have combo or superdrives only. There will be a backlash in the form of people returning "defective" products.

adlabs6
02-11-2005, 01:56 PM
Heh, hard to believe that for real, but I suppose it could happen. I wouldn't buy the game if it was that way though. People thought Steam was bad, imagine having to DOWNgrade your PC just to play a game. Silly.

3.JG51_BigBear
02-11-2005, 02:08 PM
This is nuts. On both computers that I play games on there are two burners, one for DVDs and for CDs. The next UBI game I buy will end up costing a hundred bucks between the software and the hardware downgrade.

SeminoleX
02-11-2005, 02:26 PM
I see too there's already a big discussion over at Subsim review about this.

http://207.44.164.159/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=27875

This may explain why so many complaints come in here about not being able to run PF. Supposedly PF has this protection incorporated..someone said the box reccomends not using a CD write disk.

From the above thread ,as near as I can make it out, the protection measure reacts only to a system with both a CD/DVD writer with a software emulation program running.


Maybe that's why we saw those exploding PF cds.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Ragman_
02-11-2005, 03:09 PM
Kinda hard to sell a product that no one's hardware will support. Seems like it would cost them more sales than the pirating did to begin with. Not really a profitable direction to pursue the way I see it.

Troll2k
02-11-2005, 04:15 PM
The PF box clearly warns that the copy protection may confilict with cdrw,dvdrw or virtual drives.That is why so many people had a hard time installing PF.

You can find a new 52x cd for $10.00.And slower ones are less than that.

Chuck_Older
02-11-2005, 04:36 PM
OK, so it's 10 bucks. What if:

you don't know how to install it?

your PC case has no more room for the drive?

Suddenly it's not 'just' ten bucks anymore

Icksterminator
02-11-2005, 04:57 PM
IMO this would be tantamount to suicide for UBI. most wont buy Ubi products if its not going to run in their Dell/Gateway/HP/whatever retail computer, and all of these have burners and software bundled.

the rest will find workarounds for the security just to play, and once its cracked the piracy will be rampant.

the proper way is the cd key method, like novalogic uses, for online play. but to make it not compatible with current hardware is insanity.

the original IL2 also states that cdrom drives are required, and recommended, as have all the FB series as well, and to date I have had no problems installing and running them.

Red_Russian13
02-11-2005, 05:04 PM
This seems like it would just encourage pirating, not really dissuade it. All the folks who would normally buy it, all the sudden, like Chuck points out, have too pay even more for it. They have to buy stuff that didn't come with thier computer. All the sudden, it's not just $40 anymore. They'd rather pay $15 for a 'copy' that works on their machine.

-HH- Beebop
02-11-2005, 05:08 PM
I have never had a problem installing or running FB/AEP/PF including PF standalone on my system. It has both a DVD/CD burner and a DVD-ROM drive. I can play the game through either drive.
I may be wrong (and often am) but I think what they mean is you won't be able to install/run the game if the burn program is running. Shut it off and no prob. I have never tried running the game with the burn program on. This might be a problem though with systems that keep the burner running in the background.
I agree that a CD Key is a better way to go. It might be argued that you can hack a key but in reality someone, somewhere will find a way to hack this security feature as well. Hackers love this kind of challange and some will be able to rise to the task. Nothing, unfortunately, will stop a pirate.

Well, I've heard stories about two guys named Smith and Wesson but...................

xTHRUDx
02-11-2005, 05:11 PM
the way i got around the problem, was to copy all of the files from the install discs into a folder the hard drive and installed the game from that folder. once installed i deleted that install folder. the down side is that you have to have the spare room on a hard drive to do it.

it was the only way i got it to install. i have one of those combi-drives.

Haele
02-11-2005, 06:45 PM
I tried a couple of drives I had lying around when I had problems installing PF, none of the CD-RW drives played ball apart from one, a "Cyberdrive" one. Handily enough it also rips copy protected CD's for some reason http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

indylavi
02-11-2005, 07:36 PM
Yeah it will be a very bad thing to do for UBI. Fact is some PC's (often store bought) make adding any part extremely difficult. I had to drill holes to remove the backwards bolts from my friends PC just to add a new stick of RAM. Not to mention it voids your warranty if you do anything to a store bought PC. I know most here dislike store bought PC's but fact is they sell more than the ones you put together.

That average person seeing the game in the shop has a hard time figuring out the recommended specs on the box. Just look at the forum now. Do you really expect these people to know enough about computers to buy a new part and install it?
If they can't install it themselves and don't know anybody that can they have to pay somebody a lot of money. One guy on TV in my city is charging $50 to install a PC part. $50 for ANY PC part!!! Thank god I learned how to make my own PC

CDN_Merlin
02-11-2005, 07:53 PM
Sya buh bye to Ubisoft then as this will kill them. No one will buy their games because everyone and their mothers have a burner. ****, I've got 4 systems and a laptop and all of them have burners and a seperate DVD ROM.

WTF were they thinking? Or were they thinking at all?

wayno7777
02-11-2005, 09:20 PM
I heard about the virtual drive issue but I haven't had any problems. Even when daemon was installed. My comp has a CDRW and a DVD-Rom_CDRW combo. No probs with either except that I have to play the game from the one it was installed with. So I installed PF with the CDRW and the merged with the combo drive. BF1942 uses a CD key but there are generaters out there.

tsisqua
02-12-2005, 12:36 AM
This has to be the result of a misunderstanding. I'm sure they are talking about the same copy protection that we are already familiar with, namely that it detects VIRTUAL drives, and that there may be a problem with it seeing an actual drive as a virtual drive.

And I'll never own a Steam product because of there inceasant need to give me permission to play their game . . . . Every Time You Play!

Tsisqua

LeadSpitter_
02-12-2005, 02:25 AM
I think every modern pc that can run these game comes with both dvd rw and cdrw drives only, I doubt people would go out and purchase another cdrom just for one game and it would effect sales greatly.

Sounds like a misunderstanding

Maj_Death
02-12-2005, 02:48 AM
If ubisoft actually does this, then Ubisoft just drove itself out of business, atleast for PC games. I know how to install disk drives and I have plenty of room on my mobo for another one and I even have $10 on me. But there is no way I'm going to go to the trouble of bending over backwards to meet rediculas demands by a company that supposedly serves me and all their other customers.

Hopefully for the sake of Ubisoft, they meant virtual drives. Most people do not have those.

Capt.England
02-12-2005, 05:43 AM
load of BS or just a misunderstanding. I've got a virtual drive of my PC and had no problems at all with installing PF. The only game that has given me problems was THE SIMS 2. All I had to do was turn off the virtual drive, and then the program loaded as per normal.

IF IT IS TRUE, then I should think that there may be legal issues in certain country's as what they are saying is that you are not allowed to use certain programs/drives on your own PC. This is like M$ telling you that you can only use windoze with Intel only motherboards and if you don't, you will be punished!

MaxMhz
02-12-2005, 05:53 AM
UBI tech support doesn't impress me much (when they say to people : " Fly at hyperlobby" just because they didn't set the right IP in setup http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ).

You can expect any answer from those guys...

Now this rumour - and I do think it's just that - has been going far longer than indicated.
I can remember it as far back as when FB 1.0
came out.

Obi_Kwiet
02-12-2005, 02:39 PM
That's ******ed. Not only does that hurt normal people, it probably does nothing to fix the problem. I'm sure any one with a bit of experience in that area could crack it.

RickRuski
02-13-2005, 06:35 PM
I have checked the link about no cdrw allowed with future Ubisoft products and I believe that the article is giving a lot of us the wrong information. I have also had a look at a site which I believe gives more positive information. The way I read it is that the copy protection that Ubisoft is implimenting will only affect pirated versions of the CD ( copies from a legitimate CD ). There will be imbeded in the legitimate cd an encrypted code further down in the lower layers which CDRW will not be able to read,so if the pirated copy is inserted into the cd drive the game will not progress. this is good for all of us, the sooner we get rid of the people involved in this sort of piracy the better things will be for all. Here is the link that I got my positive vibes from:-


http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_protections_safedisc.shtml

I hope this will ease concerns some may have

ClnlSandersLite
02-14-2005, 04:43 AM
Virtual drives:
Had to uninstall clone cd to get both this game and rome total war to run. of course I can reinstall it whenever, just a hassle. As to legal issues about that, I seriously hope that elby sues the **** out of whoever came up with that protection scheme...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The way I read it is that the copy protection that Ubisoft is implimenting will only affect pirated versions of the CD ( copies from a legitimate CD ). There will be imbeded in the legitimate cd an encrypted code further down in the lower layers which CDRW will not be able to read,so if the pirated copy is inserted into the cd drive the game will not progress. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There will always be drives that can read/write data that supposedly "can't be read/written". Further, any scheme that relies on such data fails once you use a legitimate copy of a game and the protection scheme can't be read by your drive.

Now, this is not good for anybody. Simply put, hackers will always break any scheme you throw at them, period. The only people that this interferes with to any degree, is honest joes like me.

Lecture Below read or not at your leasure:
The game company sells us a license to use each original copy of the game on one (1) pc at a time. They do not sell us the game as they would a car, that's just not the way licensing works. I'll bet that there are more people here that have the game installed on more than one pc in their home than play using copies. Multiple installations are in fact, totally illegal, as long as the number of installations exceeds the number of licenses purchased. Now, if you want to uninstall/install everytime you switch computers, that is legal.

Take the following example:
Billy is a traveling insurance salesman (yuck). He flys alot but spends a bit of his lesiure time at home. Billy owns 2 computers, a laptop which he uses for travel, and a home pc. Billy, is a fan of the il2 series and plays every chance he gets but only owns one copy of each game. In order to stay legal, every time he leaves home, he has to uninstall the pack from his home pc and reinstall on his laptop. When he gets back, he does the same process in reverse.

Is this right? No, it's the law. The only other legal solution is to buy another copy of all the games.

Now, for bob. Bob is a programmer with 2 kids, ages 10 and 12. Both of his kids like to play on the home computer after school, among their favorite games is the il2 series (I liked flight sims at that age too). Bieng kids, Bob's children aren't to careful with cd's. Bob, bieng an IT professional knows how licensing works, so he makes a copy of the game and let's them use it, keeping the original in a safe http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. This is fine because bob bought 1 license to the game, not the cd. The license to the game is valid as long as bob has the original container (cd) and required documentation (licenses, cd keys, etc). Note though, that bob can NOT exceed his number of licenses and install the game at work too.

Now, if you actually read EULAS, you'll find that most of them prohibit sales by unauthorized retailers. The simple fact is that there is no legal way to prevent it. Take for instance any used game that you can buy at the store. The reason that this can be done is that the license transfers with the container (cd) and required documentation (licenses, cd keys, etc). As long as you have those items, you can sell/trade them at will. This is the sole reason that used cds/games/etc stores can stay in business.

So, what is a pirate? A pirate is someone who uses/sells/exhibits a copy of software/music and or derived works without the user license to back it up. Nothing more, nothing less. Far too many people point at other people and shout PIRATE when the person they are pointing at is not a pirate and the person shouting technically is. Next time you pop in a cd with more than one person in your car, think carefully about whether you can trust them as you just became a pirate (unauthorized exhibition).

Wildcat_zero
02-14-2005, 11:37 AM
Hi bad move for ubi, not only will it encourging pirating, but also sales will fall, would you want to buy a game that refuses to work because u have a cdrw or a dvdrw. I would take it back. Also ubis is infringing on customers rights by stating what is allowed to be installed on a persons pc, many laws could be broken here. In the uk the human rights act, allows for people to have privatecy, this infringes on it, also tradiing standards would not be keen on this as it break consumers rights by imposing contrictions on the use of the software. Also ubi could be sued for doing illegal serches of peoples registery and harddrives for the cd/dvd writers, whose say they are not snopping on other stuff as well.

I smell a court action here and lawyers praying ubi bits the bullet and does that, lots of hands rubbing here.

Wildcat_zero
02-14-2005, 11:40 AM
also i read in consumeractive the pc mag here in the uk, last year, if us companies or foreign for that matter (I presume) snooop on people's pc harddrives without person, the british governement will sue them out of business. what this space ubi. we love the french very much. salute

Jasko76
02-14-2005, 11:53 AM
I think Oleg should leave this ship (Ubi) and look for a better publisher, there are many out there.

MaxMhz
02-14-2005, 02:44 PM
I use Nero Image Drive, Deamon Tools and Alcohol 120%

I did not need to uninstall ANY of them.

Only thing needed is to disable the virtual drives - there is NO problem starting them up again after install of the game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Any data "hidden" (?) on a CD can be read too - otherwise what's the big idea putting it there in the first place...

Making Games Copy-Protected is a BAD thing.