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View Full Version : Question for Kurfurst and any 109er's



arthursmedley
03-05-2008, 04:13 AM
I read somewhere recently (and forgive me but I cannot remember the source) that LW ground crews on the Eastern front took to adding paraffin to the engine oil of their 109's to combat the effect of extreme winter temperatures on the viscosity of the oil.

To their surprise they found this had negligible effects on engine wear and some ground crews, on transferring back to the west carried on with this practise.

Is this true? Anyone ever heard of this practise before?

luftluuver
03-05-2008, 04:19 AM
What do you need Kurfurst for?

Yes paraffin was added to dilute the oil. Once the engine had achieved operating temperature the paraffin had evaporated.

stalkervision
03-05-2008, 04:53 AM
Originally posted by arthursmedley:
I read somewhere recently (and forgive me but I cannot remember the source) that LW ground crews on the Eastern front took to adding paraffin to the engine oil of their 109's to combat the effect of extreme winter temperatures on the viscosity of the oil.

To their surprise they found this had negligible effects on engine wear and some ground crews, on transferring back to the west carried on with this practise.

Is this true? Anyone ever heard of this practise before?

Parrafin? Never heard that one.

What they did was to adopt many soviet methods of winter operation found out from soviet prisoners like mixing gasoline into their oil to thin the oil and make their planes a lot easier to start and to clean all the oil out of their aircraft guns in sub zero weather. They also filled trays full of gasolins and warmed the engine campartments with it to start their aircraft.

K_Freddie
03-05-2008, 04:56 AM
Yes.. besides diluting the oil, I think it lowered the freezing point of the mixture so it could be used in the extreme temperatures of Russia. I think they got this idea from a 'helpfull' captured russian ground tech (I wonder what happend to this guy).

Also the dilution effect, helps the oil get into minute cracks/spaces of of the engine and when the parrafin evapourates, the holes are plugged.

You can also do this with Diesel fuel, which works from the other end to seal the piston area.
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Ratsack
03-05-2008, 05:17 AM
The Luftwaffe actually demonstrated the cold start procedure using diluted oil at the infamous Rechlin display in 1939. They may have had the idea drummed into them by the Soviets, but they didn't get it from prisoners in the first instance.

cheers,
Ratsack

K_Freddie
03-05-2008, 05:50 AM
Maybe not all ideas, but certainly a lot of 'ice-age' solutions came from Soviet pow's.
There are a few of these anecdotes mentioned by eastern front German vets, books and/or the net.
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stalkervision
03-05-2008, 06:41 AM
Originally posted by Ratsack:
The Luftwaffe actually demonstrated the cold start procedure using diluted oil at the infamous Rechlin display in 1939. They may have had the idea drummed into them by the Soviets, but they didn't get it from prisoners in the first instance.

cheers,
Ratsack


Erich Hartman personally witnessed a Russian prisoner demonstrating these "tricks". The Luftwaffe mechanics were totally amazed and apparently weren't aware of these previous german discoveries because they had major troubles in their first winter in Russia starting luftwaffe aircraft and in operation of their guns before these Russian prisoners showed them how to do it.

Sillius_Sodus
03-05-2008, 01:05 PM
Oil dilution with gasoline is a common practice to help start piston engines in very cold weather. The gas in the oil cooks off while the engine warms up at idle. Some aircraft manuals even come with charts indicating the amount of gasoline to add to the oil tank and how long the engine should be run at idle to cook it off.

Good hunting,
Sillius_Sodus

stalkervision
03-05-2008, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Sillius_Sodus:
Oil dilution with gasoline is a common practice to help start piston engines in very cold weather. The gas in the oil cooks off while the engine warms up at idle. Some aircraft manuals even come with charts indicating the amount of gasoline to add to the oil tank and how long the engine should be run at idle to cook it off.

Good hunting,
Sillius_Sodus

apparently it was not a common practice whatsoever at the time for the luftwaffe. It also requires that you change the engine oil much more frequently as not all of the gasoline is "cooked off" as you say..

salutations...SV

Xiolablu3
03-05-2008, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ratsack:
The Luftwaffe actually demonstrated the cold start procedure using diluted oil at the infamous Rechlin display in 1939. They may have had the idea drummed into them by the Soviets, but they didn't get it from prisoners in the first instance.

cheers,
Ratsack


Erich Hartman personally witnessed a Russian prisoner demonstrating these "tricks". The Luftwaffe mechanics were totally amazed and apparently weren't aware of these previous german discoveries because they had major troubles in their first winter in Russia starting luftwaffe aircraft and in operation of their guns before these Russian prisoners showed them how to do it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wasnt that the technique of lighting a fire under the engine?

stalkervision
03-05-2008, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ratsack:
The Luftwaffe actually demonstrated the cold start procedure using diluted oil at the infamous Rechlin display in 1939. They may have had the idea drummed into them by the Soviets, but they didn't get it from prisoners in the first instance.

cheers,
Ratsack


Erich Hartman personally witnessed a Russian prisoner demonstrating these "tricks". The Luftwaffe mechanics were totally amazed and apparently weren't aware of these previous german discoveries because they had major troubles in their first winter in Russia starting luftwaffe aircraft and in operation of their guns before these Russian prisoners showed them how to do it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wasnt that the technique of lighting a fire under the engine? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup, how did you know? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

The luftwaffe mechanics were dearly afraid the fire would ruin the plane's electrical systems but it worked totally fine in freezing sub zero weather.