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Dag_nabbitt
10-14-2009, 04:25 AM
Hi first time poster long time reader thanks to you all for your advice which has and continues to help me.
Now for the meat.
I play offline for the moment and recently downloaded cobra427so's excellent hurricane season.
My question is this. How do i drag the ai down to my level.? The 109's working in pairs are ruining my day, they just keep BnZing,(very disciplined not like yours truly) me most of the time i can aviod them but i can't climb with them so i can't shoot at them.
Please will you offer some tactics for me to try out.and please don't start a flame war about specs and preformance i've read those pages and its tactics i need not how big a 109 engine is.
thanks in advance.
dag.

DKoor
10-14-2009, 04:58 AM
For one Hurricane has nice armament taht works well vs Bf-109.
All that is needed is one bullet in radiator... after he makes his pass on you and you evade, he will be nice target for some 4-5 sec in which time you are supposed to do something with those .303cals.
Keep in mind that overall Bf-109 outperforms the Hurri more so if you are against more experienced Ai... they always fly on the edge of performance so you cannot expect to outfly them.

What you can do when you are outnumbered is to hug the ground and evade their attacks while waxing their tails as they go by http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
Patience is also key... sometimes it is smarter to disengage regardless of ideal shootout position as sometimes you will be picked up by enemy wingman - that being one example.

Also head ons vs Bf-109 while in Hurri is extremely effective... not recommended vs humans in 109's as they can easily nail you with cannons. Ai flies in predictable way so wait for good moment to spam him with 7,62, all you need is one bullet in rad and then just wait, victory is yours http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

TinyTim
10-14-2009, 07:08 AM
Which version of 109 and which Hurri?

Generally, if a 109 pilot keeps the discipline, doesn't make mistakes and knows what he is doing, then there really is nothing you can do about it - except trying to dodge his attacks, drag him to low alt for your mates to help, drag him towards frinedly AAA, but that's about it. It's even harder when you are dealing with two of them working in pair.

Try climbing above them prior to engagement.

Lt_Letum
10-14-2009, 07:15 AM
Taking the Hurri II below 5000m against 109s
isn't suicide, but you do suffer from a much
lower climb rate.
The 109 f4 still out climbs the Hurri above 5k,
but nowhere near as much as it does below 5k.

All you can do if you are low and he won't
sacrifice his E is to keep your speed high to
keep your options open.

Dag_nabbitt
10-14-2009, 09:04 AM
Thanks gentlemen that gives me something to try but i fear these 109 drivers are very disciplined.I'll let you know how i get on.

Ba5tard5word
10-14-2009, 10:13 AM
a) The Hurricane is REALLY slow and will almost always be slower than 109's. I don't have my Hardball's Aircraft Viewer available now but I think the Hurricane's top speed at sea level is like 420kph while the 109E is like 470 or 480kph...quite a difference. In the Battle of Britain Hurricanes were generally used against slower bombers while Spitfires were used to battle against the escort 109's.

b) The AI is unfortunately very sneaky and annoying if it is in a plane that is faster than you--it will just keep flying way above you going faster and climbing faster than you can keep up with--then will keep swooping down on you making diving attacks over and over. The AI 109's will do this all day long unless you are in a plane that can keep up with it.

c) Check out Hardball's Aircraft Viewer (available at Mission4Today) or Il2Compare, they provide you with a lot of data for the planes in the game like rate of climb and top speed, which is essential to know if you want to see which planes will match up well against one another.

d) so yeah I would recommend trying Spitfires or some other plane against 109's, rather than Hurricanes. Some of the early Spits are pretty slow though.

It is possible to take on enemies that are faster, but really only if you have a height advantage, and even then you will eventually lose speed and your enemy will be able to get on your six easily and you won't be able to run away. Also SOME enemy AI planes that are fast can be lazy and not keep up their speed, like the Tempest--those are easy to shoot down with slower planes...but the AI 109's don't fall into that category.

If you have 4.09m installed, check out the new Quick Mission Builder's scramble feature, it is a good way to quickly try out a plane against different opponents. Or just use QMB in general.

mortoma
10-14-2009, 10:56 AM
I really never have a problem downing any 109 in any plane I fly against them in if they are AI. Granted, it might take a while to get them but I'll get them somehow, some way. And even if they are 'ace' level they are toast. Not a question of if I'll get them, just when. The one-oh-nine is one of the top 3 easiest to wound and damage of all planes. It's very fragile as presented in this sim. I think the P-40 is the most fragile though, due to easy engine kill. But 109 is second or third to that.

Playing online it's much, much harder because there are some 109 masters out there. I got in a turn battle against a guy online once in a G2 and I was in a Yak-9B. We got into a merry-go-round fight on the deck for at least 20 minutes. This guy got every ounce of turn out of his G2, which is easy to turn with anyway. I struck first and smoked his engine but he PK'd me while he still had enough engine power only a minute after.

Ba5tard5word
10-14-2009, 12:42 PM
Well mortoma how do you get them in your sights if you are in a slower plane or a plane that isn't as good at climbing and accelerating?

I find if I'm in a plane that isn't as fast or as good at climbing as the AI 109 opponent, the AI will almost always pull a Jacob's ladder and fly up and away from me at top speed as I struggle to keep up, then eventually he'll come back and dive on me over and over and then zoom back up 1000m above me at 500kph+. But if I'm in a plane like a good fast Spitfire that is good at climbing and can keep its speed up, the 109 is dead meat.

Dag_nabbitt
10-15-2009, 04:40 AM
thank you for your advice and suggestions the head on almost worked until i lost my rudder http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif but staying lowish and dragging the ai 109 around some airfields where the flack could get at him worked a treat after what seemed like an age. i saw him trailing vapour and promptly helped him trail some more.Theres nothing like seeing splashes over his cockpit to make one feel good about the hurri bird.This has given me a huge confidence boost not just knowing that i can evade but that eventually i can hit back.
thanks again.

doraemil
10-16-2009, 02:44 AM
Yes BnZ AI planes, this can be difficult to catch them unless you got a plane that outclasses them.

The AI have FM that's "liberal", to say the least.



The ace AI P-47's are similar, (QMB with neutral advantage @ 5 km), when I use a 109E or FW 190 A4 .

Normally I climb, and after the inital pass, the P-47 climbs like a homesick angel and I can't follow.


I notice I can nail the P-47 on the closing, head on shot (remember to pull up when wingspan gets halfway full on your gun sight or else the remainder will get you).*

The other chance I get is to "semi-chase" them while staying at a very shallow climb, going as fast as you can w/out over heating. Let them climb above you, but keep following them.

Then when they reach their choice altitude, they will BnZ you, and you can dive slightly for some speed and pull up to meet them. Time it and you can get a head on shot right before you stall.

One time I messed up and was around 250 km/hr climbing, the AI zoomed past me, and I rolled out and turned around level and got a snapshot as he was climbing back up after the dive (I missed of course), but great pilots might be able to turn to meet the attack, evade the BnZ and do this instead of going for the head on shot. **



Also you can get a snap shot say if both of you are closing in, and you climb, after the pass, the AI will climb rapidly, but if you've got a quick turner (zero, biplane, or spit) you can turn around at max g and have snap shot as they are racing upwards.***


A few things I've noticed:

* Ace AI head ons are hard to pull off, the ace has tight gunnery skills, and can one hit PK, or major engine damage / fire, or control damage, or even few hits remove a key spot (like wing), also the AI machine guns are good out to .6 km , they can one hit you even with rifle caliber's too .


** AI forgets you're there. Often times the ace AI will fly up and away, and once they get 1 km distant, they cruise off, never attacking you.


*** If you try the max g turn with a turning fighter, you blow all your energy so if the snap shot misses, the AI races away and usually can't catch them after that. Normally the BnZ AI never capitalizes on this but they seem to "forget you" and cruise away (if its a TnB AI like a zero, he may turn around for a shot of their own).