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View Full Version : Experienced players: Do you prefer single or multi?



WizardKing78
03-31-2008, 11:17 AM
I'd like to ask those who've been playing the game for a while, which do you prefer; single or multiplayer? Please list the reasons why.

ImMoreBetter
03-31-2008, 11:25 AM
Single 95% of the time.

I suck too bad to do too well online.

Xiolablu3
03-31-2008, 11:36 AM
Aww man, its only about practice, brains and teamwork, online rocks.

Me online 95% and offline 5%, however I havent played for a while, been getting into STALKER mods and C&C3.

CUJO_1970
03-31-2008, 11:39 AM
Multiplayer.

If you've flown this sim long enough, you realize that the AI follows certain predictable patterns with each aircraft. Once you know these patterns, you know how to defeat them. It get's predictable.

You get a completely different dynamic when playing against humans, as well as the unpredictability that a skilled human opponent provides.

blackpulpit1970
03-31-2008, 11:51 AM
Online is the place were this great game shines and you can use your favorite plane to it's best abilities/or not. Single player is predictable and unfair as far as A.I. goes, they do things human players cannot and should not do. It is fun to play for a little while in single player but nothing compares to online. Dont be discouraged about online flying, you will get shot down alot at first but you will quickly learn what not to do and what to do depending on the situations. Find a good server and get on comms/teamspeak and ask questions and most of all HAVE FUN. It is a fantastic online game with lots of immersion, i have been online since day one and in a squad for 5 years (DEY)and it is a great time to be had. Good luck.

Jaws2002
03-31-2008, 12:02 PM
Online 99%.

Offline only testing of new planes, settings, maps or patches.
I like to play online with my squadies and friends, this makes the game a lot more fun.
Offline the AI is so predictable it bores me to tears.

Monterey13
03-31-2008, 12:13 PM
Online is where it's at. I fly with my squad every night. We host coops in Hyperlobby nightly, and it just can't be beat. The teamwork and communication is just something you cannot get with offline play. I only use offline for practice in QMB.

WizardKing78
03-31-2008, 12:17 PM
Damn... I was hoping people would say offline.

My PC seems to be suffering problems with online play. Until I get this fixed I'll have to play offline.

Capt.LoneRanger
03-31-2008, 12:27 PM
99,9% online.


If you can run IL2 without any problems offline, it shouldn't have a big problem running online, as long as you don't fly missions with really many players online or many ground objects/FlaK.

crucislancer
03-31-2008, 12:33 PM
I do both, but mostly offline since it's a bit flexable to my needs, mainly I can pause the game at any time to take care of the kids or do something for my wife as needed. I really enjoy online, though, for the most part.

Here's how I see it.

Offline Pros:
- I can fly any plane I feel like playing, depending on the mission or campaign I feel like working on.

- I can pause the game as needed

- Lag isn't an issue.

Offline cons:
- AI does get predictable after a while.


Online Pros:
- human players much more challenging then AI, even the noobs aren't so predictable at first.

- plenty of server choices to suit most everyone's needs.

Online Cons:
- Some servers have really limited plane sets, in some cases forcing players to fly planes they aren't acustomed to.

- The human element comes into play in a negative way as well.....bad atitudes, rule breakers (or not reading the rules at all!), general lack of teamwork.


Over the weekend I played some offline missions and had about an hour of online time, and I had fun doing both.

DD_crash
03-31-2008, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by WizardKing78:
Damn... I was hoping people would say offline.

My PC seems to be suffering problems with online play. Until I get this fixed I'll have to play offline. Hi there, Why not post in the community help forum? Lots of techy helpfull guys there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

K_Freddie
03-31-2008, 12:43 PM
Online is better if your ping < 100mS... otherwise didling with the AI is a 'low value compensation'.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jaws2002
03-31-2008, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
Online is better if your ping < 100mS... otherwise didling with the AI is a 'low value compensation'.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

You don't have to have lower then 100 ping to have a smooth online game. I play in servers from Europe a lot and my ping in those servers is around 140-160ms. I have no problems at all. You run into problems if the ping is not stable.
If it keeps fluctuating that's when you have issues. I played with guys with a stable 400ms ping without issues.

bolox00
03-31-2008, 12:57 PM
now, offline 100%
i get far more enjoyment from a well (user) written campaign.
can also play around to my hearts content doing silly stuff like landing a mistel on a carrier http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif
i really don't miss online at all

M_Gunz
03-31-2008, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Aww man, its only about practice, brains and teamwork, online rocks.

Just wait till you get old and hope nothing happens before then. It can but regardless, time
is not your friend past age 40.

SeaFireLIV
03-31-2008, 01:16 PM
Single Player. up until about a month ago, single and multiplayer.

Multiplayer advantages:

1.Playing against Humans is amazing the first few times, knowing that the 109 you are chasing that`s desperatly trying to escape is really flown by a seating human!

2. Flying with humans in a co-ordinated mission over comms in formation is unmatched. You can only really get this in a Squad. Especially when flown in the spirit of WWII combat teamwork.

3. You develope a camaraderie with your Squiad m8s and regulars that you seldom get elsewhere unless you`re part of a real combat team!

4. It gets as real as it can get for a simulater.


disadvantages.

1. You don`t always meet pilots who fly in the spirit of WWII combat. They may shoulder-shoot, or fly irresponsibly simply to get a kill instead of watching your back. You might save their neck from certain flames and they`ll leave you to face overwhelming enemies without a word of thanks or blame you for taking `their` kill. Often you`ll meet pilots without the basics for common sense and courtesy.

2. Waiting a for a Mission (like a co op) can take a long while, even in squad play, as it`s impossible to always get everyone ready on time. then you may have to deal with take-off crashes, etc, needing multiple restarts. Understandable, but it can make a new mission take up to 15 minutes to start.

3. lag, comp connections could cause warp problems leading to problems flying and fighting and even leading to allegations of cheating.

4. Squads are always very good to fly in and are your best bet, but even there, you may meet that one character who causes you all sorts of aggravation, making you realise that perhaps it`s best to stay offline or go elsewhere for the sake of the Squad. Basically, the one character out of the whole group, just like in a new job, who for some reason, you just don`t get on with - ever. And it don`t get better.

Yellow_Sub
03-31-2008, 02:30 PM
I am an unexpired player and prefer online play. Even if your not an ACE in dogfighting you can still have fun in a fighter bomber or bomber and help your side win. However it is better to stay away from the stat pages, since they create some sort of pressure instead of simply enjoying the game.

Bearcat99
03-31-2008, 03:11 PM
I do both.. I fly with the 99th regularly.. although lately due to technical issues I have been like dinosaur egss on Hyperlobby... I also fly offline. I enjoy both.... but for me squad life is where it's at.

WOLFPLAYER2007
03-31-2008, 03:29 PM
Offline always, i prefer realism than fighting a yak with funny skins.

JG52Uther
03-31-2008, 03:34 PM
Online 99% of the time.Occasionally I get the urge to play one of the countless user made campaigns for a while,but I love flying with my squad.Thats probably what keeps me flying il2.

crucislancer
03-31-2008, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by WOLFPLAYER2007:
Offline always, i prefer realism than fighting a yak with funny skins.

Incorrect skins and markings drives me nuts, too, even in a dogfight server.

Manu-6S
03-31-2008, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by WOLFPLAYER2007:
Offline always, i prefer realism than fighting a yak with funny skins.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Try a real Full Difficulty server mate... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

I fly 99% Online with my squad... there isn't another way to fight like our parent/granpa did.

AI is simply too stupid: sometimes you can go near at 20m without any disengaging manouvre but usually they see you at blind six... Only online you can "free hunt" enemies (with limitation of engine), you can escort REAL bombers and make some teamwoking.

IMO Online beats Offline 100-0.

As I said before, all depends from WHICH server you fly in: if you are new to the online I can suggest you UKDedicated 3... very good and nice people there.

Avoid server with cockpit off and in part with external on... it's the land of triggerhappies. More difficult means more mature pilots = more respect = more fun.

Think, yesterday me and 4 squad members were on a big map on Sturmovik.de, flying Japanese against English planes. We started with 3 Betties and noticed that we were 5 against 10 pilots who picked P40 and Hurricane IIc (4 x 20mm cannons)... knowing that we could only die in front of a single hurricane we decided to attack in syncronous from 6km (bombsight) with a single e fighter escort... we did it and the attack was really successful... we fled 30 minutes, we hitted the target and landed in formation.

That is fun.

R_Target
03-31-2008, 03:58 PM
97% skinning, 3% flying. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

UgoRipley
03-31-2008, 04:06 PM
99% online.
I launch it offline only to review tracks, so the remaining time it's not a 1% of offline flying anyway...

As others remarked before, the offline AI gets predictable after some time, and you start thinking "well, I'm good enough at this, now I feel ready for flying online...".

It's then that you discover how BAD you suck at flying !! ;-)


Joking aside, online rules. Once you get the hang of it, you'll never go back again.

My first kill ever on a "full-switch" server was...err...a friendly airplane. I felt soooo stupid ! Flying online forces you to fly in a more "REAL" way. You MUST know how to tell friends from foes, you'll slowly find yourself doing smarter things...

Online is the way to go.

Von_Rat
03-31-2008, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Aww man, its only about practice, brains and teamwork, online rocks.

Just wait till you get old and hope nothing happens before then. It can but regardless, time
is not your friend past age 40. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


im 51 and do pretty dam good online.


my motto is,,,,

age and treachery will always beat youth and talent.

Bearcat99
03-31-2008, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by WOLFPLAYER2007:
Offline always, i prefer realism than fighting a yak with funny skins.

Online is IMO more realistic if you are in a well designed mission with real goals and objectives as opposed to a free for all furball.

Enthor1
03-31-2008, 04:35 PM
WizardKing78,
You will always get more who prefer online than off at this site. It has always been so and has got more so since the game has recieved some questionable enhancements and many of the few offliners who lived here have bailed.

I used to be 99%online but as the game changed, have gravitated more to offline, about 95% off now.

Why? Well what interests me about online play has become less interesting and certain improvements to the game are not welcomed by many onliners.

There is a site with over 7,000 members that would give a totally reversed perspective but anyone here who directs you to it will be banished.

This used to be THE happening IL2 site but things have changed over the last year

TX-EcoDragon
03-31-2008, 04:36 PM
I've almost never flown singleplayer. I do a little testing, and sometimes after a settings change or with new hardware I'll go into the QMB for a few minutes. . .but over the ~7 years I've flown IL-2 I've probably got 10 hours offline.

ElAurens
03-31-2008, 05:25 PM
+1

99.9% Online.

Xiolablu3
03-31-2008, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFPLAYER2007:
Offline always, i prefer realism than fighting a yak with funny skins.

Online is IMO more realistic if you are in a well designed mission with real goals and objectives as opposed to a free for all furball. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

joeap
03-31-2008, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by Enthor1:
WizardKing78,
You will always get more who prefer online than off at this site. It has always been so and has got more so since the game has recieved some questionable enhancements and many of the few offliners who lived here have bailed.

I used to be 99%online but as the game changed, have gravitated more to offline, about 95% off now.

Why? Well what interests me about online play has become less interesting and certain improvements to the game are not welcomed by many onliners.

There is a site with over 7,000 members that would give a totally reversed perspective but anyone here who directs you to it will be banished.

This used to be THE happening IL2 site but things have changed over the last year

Well I am mostly offline but am still here.

Stew278
03-31-2008, 06:10 PM
About 95% offline for me. I don't like competing against other people. Also the time acceleration available offline is nice. I can just put it on autopilot and get some reading done during the slow points of the mission.

csThor
03-31-2008, 10:00 PM
99% Offline. The fundamental reason is that I prefer a very "focused" style of playing which is just not present online. Offline I can tailor missions to my interests and historical facts without having to fear that some gotta-win-score-wh0re is throwing a tantrum on the message board. Secondly the AI doesn't have an ego and will fly bombers, ground-pounders, Stukas, recon or transports without complaining.

general_kalle
04-01-2008, 01:10 AM
i enjoy building missions and testing them offline but i fly online otherwise

Nicholaiovitch
04-01-2008, 03:00 AM
Reading all your posts makes me very envious in that you are fortunate enough to be able to play "online".
Would you believe that where I live in southern Europe, many rural houses use battery/solar for electriciy, water from wells, and radio phones to keep in touch with the world!
I have what is called "Rural Broadband". it works like this:-
- A rider on horseback arrives in the morning and collects 10kbs. of information from each house.
- After he has had lunch and a "siesta", he returns about 6pm and distributes 1kps to each household.
- If the weather is bad, the horse is ill, or the rider is "having a day off", no connection!

If we can get e-mails to work, we are delighted.
So you see, us folks are just so happy that Oleg has given us the chance to use his magnificent flight simulator, even though we have to use our imagination and hours of work to construct interesting missions and try and outfly the "bounder" that is AI.

There is room for all of us here, on this forum, online and hopefully in Oleg's new offering.

Think of us here in the sticks when you are next enjoying your online fun.

Have fun whatever way you fly.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

jasonbirder
04-01-2008, 03:58 AM
I'm 100% Offline

As far as I'm concerned that's where the game shines...I've dipped my toe into Online on a number of occasions because everyone her rants and raves about how great it is...but I wasn't impressed...
Boring Late War plane-sets, with everyone choosing their favourite uber-plane, ridiculous lack of bombers/recon/transport planes, no feeling of being involved in a bigger battle, lack of teamwork, mid low altitude dogfights dominating, lack of mission focus, poor comm's, juvenile comments on team-speak and in the chat bar, poor discipline on the ground at airfields, shoulder shooting etc etc...the list of problems is legion...

In its favour if All you are interested in is competitive dogfighting, then you will find other players more unpredictable and capable opponents that is, in my opinion the sole advantage of Online play.

Compare it to a well crafted Offline mission...Historic planeset...typically with the mission builder choosing something more unusual and interesting than the typical 190D/P51D/Spitfire IX perhaps something other than the dull late war planesets that dominate online...flights of historically marked planes taking off together...then flying in formation...real missions...with planes other than fighters involved...well populated maps...with a feeling of being involved in an ongoing war encountering other flights of planes...ground battles going on etc etc...

Makes it a no brainer for me and theres the convenience of being able to start/stop and pause whenever I fancy!

csThor
04-01-2008, 04:11 AM
Originally posted by jasonbirder:
I'm 100% Offline

As far as I'm concerned that's where the game shines...I've dipped my toe into Online on a number of occasions because everyone her rants and raves about how great it is...but I wasn't impressed...
Boring Late War plane-sets, with everyone choosing their favourite uber-plane, ridiculous lack of bombers/recon/transport planes, no feeling of being involved in a bigger battle, lack of teamwork, mid low altitude dogfights dominating, lack of mission focus, poor comm's, juvenile comments on team-speak and in the chat bar, poor discipline on the ground at airfields, shoulder shooting etc etc...the list of problems is legion...

In its favour if All you are interested in is competitive dogfighting, then you will find other players more unpredictable and capable opponents that is, in my opinion the sole advantage of Online play.

Compare it to a well crafted Offline mission...Historic planeset...typically with the mission builder choosing something more unusual and interesting than the typical 190D/P51D/Spitfire IX perhaps something other than the dull late war planesets that dominate online...flights of historically marked planes taking off together...then flying in formation...real missions...with planes other than fighters involved...well populated maps...with a feeling of being involved in an ongoing war encountering other flights of planes...ground battles going on etc etc...

Makes it a no brainer for me and theres the convenience of being able to start/stop and pause whenever I fancy!

*clap clap clap*

Precisely my sentiment.

SeaFireLIV
04-01-2008, 04:41 AM
Online play is defintely overrated if you`re looking for a realistic war-like Campaign system treated seriously.

AI does a very competent job, especially in camapaign when you cannot analyse one or two AI aircraft in isolation, but must deal with 8 or more plus other obstacles. Enemy AI can be a real handful as a team.

And of course, no whining and no uber-plane picking as said above. If you`re in 1941 flying I16s, everyone else will fight the war and deal with it... like the real thing.

Friendly_flyer
04-01-2008, 04:42 AM
I fly about half and half on- and off-line, mostly for the reasons mentioned by others here. Flying alone on the dogfight servers is really boring though. For online flying, a squad is essential, preferably one flying online campaigns.

WizardKing78
04-01-2008, 06:59 AM
Could someone please email me and tell me about the 'other' site: liberty_soldier@hotmail.com

Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Skoshi Tiger
04-01-2008, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Aww man, its only about practice, brains and teamwork, online rocks.

Just wait till you get old and hope nothing happens before then. It can but regardless, time
is not your friend past age 40. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pooh! I'm on the wrong side of that milestone! It actually explains alot about my success (or lack there of) online!

I hope Oleg simulates a nice safe desk job for me in BoB! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

rnzoli
04-01-2008, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by csThor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jasonbirder:
I'm 100% Offline

As far as I'm concerned that's where the game shines...I've dipped my toe into Online on a number of occasions because everyone her rants and raves about how great it is...but I wasn't impressed...
Boring Late War plane-sets, with everyone choosing their favourite uber-plane, ridiculous lack of bombers/recon/transport planes, no feeling of being involved in a bigger battle, lack of teamwork, mid low altitude dogfights dominating, lack of mission focus, poor comm's, juvenile comments on team-speak and in the chat bar, poor discipline on the ground at airfields, shoulder shooting etc etc...the list of problems is legion...

In its favour if All you are interested in is competitive dogfighting, then you will find other players more unpredictable and capable opponents that is, in my opinion the sole advantage of Online play.

Compare it to a well crafted Offline mission...Historic planeset...typically with the mission builder choosing something more unusual and interesting than the typical 190D/P51D/Spitfire IX perhaps something other than the dull late war planesets that dominate online...flights of historically marked planes taking off together...then flying in formation...real missions...with planes other than fighters involved...well populated maps...with a feeling of being involved in an ongoing war encountering other flights of planes...ground battles going on etc etc...

Makes it a no brainer for me and theres the convenience of being able to start/stop and pause whenever I fancy!

*clap clap clap*

Precisely my sentiment. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Precisely from people forgetting about well-crafted historic co-op missions in the 1938-1943 range online...

I also don't see why a "Pause" button is a no-brainer for simulators. It's a no-brainer for Tetris, but if you are after realism (as you claim!), then take the whole package, boring flights to target, screaming 3-minute combats even when you need a leak... etc.

Jaws2002
04-01-2008, 08:55 AM
Originally posted by jasonbirder:
I'm 100% Offline

As far as I'm concerned that's where the game shines...I've dipped my toe into Online on a number of occasions because everyone her rants and raves about how great it is...but I wasn't impressed...
Boring Late War plane-sets, with everyone choosing their favourite uber-plane, ridiculous lack of bombers/recon/transport planes, no feeling of being involved in a bigger battle, lack of teamwork, mid low altitude dogfights dominating, lack of mission focus, poor comm's, juvenile comments on team-speak and in the chat bar, poor discipline on the ground at airfields, shoulder shooting etc etc...the list of problems is legion...

In its favour if All you are interested in is competitive dogfighting, then you will find other players more unpredictable and capable opponents that is, in my opinion the sole advantage of Online play.

Compare it to a well crafted Offline mission...Historic planeset...typically with the mission builder choosing something more unusual and interesting than the typical 190D/P51D/Spitfire IX perhaps something other than the dull late war planesets that dominate online...flights of historically marked planes taking off together...then flying in formation...real missions...with planes other than fighters involved...well populated maps...with a feeling of being involved in an ongoing war encountering other flights of planes...ground battles going on etc etc...

Makes it a no brainer for me and theres the convenience of being able to start/stop and pause whenever I fancy!

You haven't been online enough then. For every jerk I find 40-50 great guys online and I think is worth it.

About the planes in the servers again, there are many server out there that have great historical mission that don't use only the late war hotrods. In my recent online flying late war hotrods have been the exception rather then the rule.


lack of teamwork You sure got this one wrong, You most likely flew in some of those populated arcade Airquake servers.

arjisme
04-01-2008, 09:21 AM
Another offliner here. There are so many outstanding user made missions that it always keeps my interest. Yes, the AI can be predictable and, at times, unfair (seeing through clouds, for instance). But the AI seems to be more believable in campaigns than it is in Quick Missions. My only real complaint with offline is I have never worked out a really reliable way of communicating with my wingmen. I don't like taking my hands off the throttle or stick and voice comms have been hit and miss.

csThor
04-01-2008, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by rnzoli:
Precisely from people forgetting about well-crafted historic co-op missions in the 1938-1943 range online...

I also don't see why a "Pause" button is a no-brainer for simulators. It's a no-brainer for Tetris, but if you are after realism (as you claim!), then take the whole package, boring flights to target, screaming 3-minute combats even when you need a leak... etc.

Sure just take the very last sentence and ignore the first 90%. A pause button is secondary, even unimportant. However the "Dogfight this, dogfight that" mindset is there and it holds the majority of the players "hostage". The simple truth is that few players really care about history down to individual units and their correct mounts when it comes to everyday-online-activities. It also invaded COOP missions as long as I can remember and even influenced how these were made. Nearly all online wars I played were not much more than "Team A in Fighter Aircraft 1 vs Team B in Fighter Aircraft 2". The other aircraft types were just accessory parts at best and easy kills at worst.

Another drawback of COOPs is the waiting time - which I can't spend anymore given me having to hug the mattress very early. I can easily squeeze a single mission into my evening routines which, from experience, can't be said about COOPs.

willyvic
04-01-2008, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by WizardKing78:
Could someone please email me and tell me about the 'other' site: liberty_soldier@hotmail.com

Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Do a google search for the wiki to get links to many different IL2 related sights.

WV

crucislancer
04-01-2008, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by ar****e:
Another offliner here. There are so many outstanding user made missions that it always keeps my interest.

So true. I made a spreadsheet with all the user made campaigns that I've downloaded, noting which I have finished and such. I think the number is around 190, and that doesn't include the dgen campaigns, any of the static campaigns that came with IL-2 1946 (some of which I've never played), or DCG. For the most part, I've played some really fantastic user-made campaigns, but I've only finished about 10% of what I have. I'd better get crackin'!

Like I said before, I do like online, just time constants and commitments don't allow for long forays online. If I can ever set aside some time, I'm sure I'll give a co-op a try.

LEBillfish
04-01-2008, 10:01 AM
ONLY "multiplayer"....and to be more specific, only coops or organized war events preferably those with individual missions (not performing one task, then jumping into another plane to perform another....Yet the entire mission focussed upon one flight only. If you want a second, then fly another restarted game/mission after).

Though for the most part "teamplay" is seriously lacking online, it often more simply individuals all fighting over the same scraps.....There are times when it all comes together. The bombers bomb then try to get away, the escort sticks with them, the opposing sides fighters try not to dogfight instead trying to hit the bombers and once the bombers drop, then turn to fighting their way home instead of slugging it out till the last person standing.

When that happens, it often taking flying with a "good" (as there are lots of squadrons out there that have no concept of teamplay) squadron, or simply good teamplay flying individuals that can really make the difference.

What's more, if you fly that way, and your team or squadron does, you'd be stunned at how you can absolutly dominate an entire mission even among better pilots on the opposing side.

That's why I'm so proud to be a part of the 78th*Sentai, for as a group they focus on their assigned tasks, teamplay well, and most often with inferior aircraft and numbers still do well.

It makes all the difference in the world, and oddly, then becomes just that much closer to real.

K2

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-01-2008, 10:23 AM
Online FTW!

ElAurens
04-01-2008, 10:36 AM
I have tried and tried many great offline user made campaigns, and after about 4 missions I just........ fall................ asleep.

The AI absolutely ruin any attempt at realism.

Either they are sitting ducks, or they have the equivilent of F-22 avionics.

SeaFireLIV
04-01-2008, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by rnzoli:
.

Precisely from people forgetting about well-crafted historic co-op missions in the 1938-1943 range online...

I also don't see why a "Pause" button is a no-brainer for simulators. It's a no-brainer for Tetris, but if you are after realism (as you claim!), then take the whole package, boring flights to target, screaming 3-minute combats even when you need a leak... etc.[/QUOTE]


Poor argument.
Actually, some of us offliners do do the full not just 3, 5, but even 20 minute trip to a target offline.

Of course, online it`s easier cos you`ve got people communicating all the while to you (making the journey not so tedious), but offline it`s boring, so you can`t blame people for speeding things up sometimes.

As for pausing or taking a leak, I have many times in my experience seen people `drop out` for all kinds of reasons from a live online fight. Being online isn`t going to stop a guy leaving for a wee if he has to.

foxfire1941
04-01-2008, 12:30 PM
With this game it's possible to "have your cake and eat it too." which means you can play online, offline or both (providing you have a decent internet connection.)

I play both online and offline. They each have their strong and weak points as others have listed.

The only thing I don't like about playing offline, is that it seems kinda "lonely". But it is perfect for practice, and enjoying the vast number of user made missions and campaigns available.

I prefer to fly with our squad online in planned coops and I enjoy the comradery of the squad. The jokes, the flying tips, the weapon loadout discussions, the plan of attack or defense and all working together for the completion of the mission objectives and everyone returning to base alive. - this comradery is something you can't get from a single player mission.

So, if you are able to get online, you should, and join a squad which fits your style of playing whether it's open cockpit or full difficulty.

Once you find a good group of chaps to fly with you will get the most out of this game, and most likely make some life-long friends.

A good place to start looking is in the Squadrons Forum here at UBI. http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/48310655

TX-EcoDragon
04-01-2008, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by jasonbirder:
I'm 100% Offline

As far as I'm concerned that's where the game shines...I've dipped my toe into Online on a number of occasions because everyone her rants and raves about how great it is...but I wasn't impressed...
Boring Late War plane-sets, with everyone choosing their favourite uber-plane, ridiculous lack of bombers/recon/transport planes, no feeling of being involved in a bigger battle, lack of teamwork, mid low altitude dogfights dominating, lack of mission focus, poor comm's, juvenile comments on team-speak and in the chat bar, poor discipline on the ground at airfields, shoulder shooting etc etc...the list of problems is legion...

In its favour if All you are interested in is competitive dogfighting, then you will find other players more unpredictable and capable opponents that is, in my opinion the sole advantage of Online play.



The sad thing is that there WERE servers that dealt with these issues. . .but most have been taken down due to lack of sufficient participation. Look at the servers people frequent and you see much of what you describe. . .it's an unfortunate supply demand sort of thing.

rnzoli
04-01-2008, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by csThor:
However the "Dogfight this, dogfight that" mindset is there and it holds the majority of the players "hostage". The simple truth is that few players really care about history down to individual units and their correct mounts when it comes to everyday-online-activities. It also invaded COOP missions as long as I can remember and even influenced how these were made. Well, it's good to see that you stop being exclusive and start to use words like "majority", "few" and "as long as I can remember". It's a big difference to say that, compared to jason's usual grumbling and stamping all online activities as "rude dogfighting". The not-so-simple truth is that you can find both kinds of people online, and I am just happy that a very generous person made more than 200 historical co-op missions for my favourite server, adapting missions from about a dozen other talented mission makers. Some of the static campaigns were originally created as single-players missions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif which play very well in co-op multiplayer mode after a couple of adjustments. And when I can meet 60-80+ history oriented players, a great bunch of people being in minority, who the hell needs the so-called "majority" after all? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

My point is: if you look hard, you will find your style online, with sufficient amount of people to have fun with.

Originally posted by csThor:
Nearly all online wars I played were not much more than "Team A in Fighter Aircraft 1 vs Team B in Fighter Aircraft 2". The other aircraft types were just accessory parts at best and easy kills at worst. A tell-tale sign that your "war" was missing the ground objective http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. A good online war is about capturing areas, and close air support - in fact the fighters play a side role in that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Bombers literally shine and make the most important impact on the overall outcome.


Originally posted by csThor:
Another drawback of COOPs is the waiting time - which I can't spend anymore given me having to hug the mattress very early. I can easily squeeze a single mission into my evening routines which, from experience, can't be said about COOPs. Define long waiting time. If a 10-15 minute briefing is long to prepare for a mission, how are you supposed to fly a 30-45 minutes mission after all? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif Except for the ultra-unrealistic autopilot/8x acceleration stuff http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

rnzoli
04-01-2008, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Of course, online it`s easier cos you`ve got people communicating all the while to you (making the journey not so tedious), but offline it`s boring, so you can`t blame people for speeding things up sometimes.
No, I don't blame anyone, but I think it is wise to point out the conflict between demanding "accuracy and immersion" from online missions, and then using the super-unrealistic wonder-tools of AP/8x/Pause offline. 2 wrongs don't make 1 right. The online voice chatter during long flights are very entertaining, the offline chatter with AI is extremely boring. 1:0 to online. Then you say, the unrelistic accelerated time is a correction to this problem. 2:0 to online.

Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
As for pausing or taking a leak, I have many times in my experience seen people `drop out` for all kinds of reasons from a live online fight. Being online isn`t going to stop a guy leaving for a wee if he has to. For sure. But it's not more frequent than someone dropping off due to internet problems. Before serious SEOW missions, people do visit the toilet, so they don't have to drop out from the mission, otherwise their aircraft will be considered as "crashed", lost from further planning. No commanders allow this for their squadrons members http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

alert_1
04-02-2008, 04:44 AM
There is offline mode too? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

BGs_Ricky
04-02-2008, 04:51 AM
I prefer multiplayer cooperative missions with my squad against human opposition if possible.
I played this sim mostly as single player for the first 3 years, but the AI behaviour was really killing the immersion factor for me most of the time...

JG52MadAdler
04-02-2008, 05:29 AM
Here is an idea I was working on for my Squad.



The Battle of Corral Sea
(May 7-8, 1942)
Japanese Carrier task force (BLUE)
Carrier's: X 2 Shoho CVL & Shokaku CV
Heavy Cruisers: X 6
Light Cruisers: X 3
Destroyers: X 12


US Carrier task force (RED)


Carrier's: X 2 Lexington CV & Yorktown CV
Heavy Cruisers: X 7
Destroyers: X 13


Each side has 16x Fighters and 16x Dive Bombers.
Flight times between task forces will be no greater than 25 minutes ( 12 grids apart)
Each Carrier task force will be assigned 2 flights of AI fighter cover
Within these grids will be other enemy targets such as Supply Convoys, Destroyer groups and enemy scout aircraft, seaplanes and transports.
The mission objective is to find the other task carrier task force and sink one carrier.
Until this objective is achieved the campaign continues. If by five weeks no carriers have been sunk then the total number of team points wins.
Once a Carrier has been discovered strategies will have to be employed to sink as well as defend.

Each team will have a Operations commander. He will give orders as to Task force speed, heading, ship formation as well as flight operations.

Each flight group will have a group commander 1 Fighter/1 Bomber He will give orders as to flight operations.

Each flight will have a flight leader

Leaders will have to keep logs of all contacts and last known positions.

=============================================
Map is done should be kicking it off soon

Worf101
04-02-2008, 06:17 AM
Originally posted by Nicholaiovitch:
Reading all your posts makes me very envious in that you are fortunate enough to be able to play "online".
Would you believe that where I live in southern Europe, many rural houses use battery/solar for electriciy, water from wells, and radio phones to keep in touch with the world!
I have what is called "Rural Broadband". it works like this:-
- A rider on horseback arrives in the morning and collects 10kbs. of information from each house.
- After he has had lunch and a "siesta", he returns about 6pm and distributes 1kps to each household.
- If the weather is bad, the horse is ill, or the rider is "having a day off", no connection!

If we can get e-mails to work, we are delighted.
So you see, us folks are just so happy that Oleg has given us the chance to use his magnificent flight simulator, even though we have to use our imagination and hours of work to construct interesting missions and try and outfly the "bounder" that is AI.

There is room for all of us here, on this forum, online and hopefully in Oleg's new offering.

Think of us here in the sticks when you are next enjoying your online fun.

Have fun whatever way you fly.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Thank you for your post. It's good to put our situation into perspective. I learned a good deal from your post and had a good laugh as well. The idea of playing Il2 by mule back is hilarious.

Da Worfster

DKoor
04-02-2008, 06:37 AM
I do both.
Single is fun because you can fly historical as it gets, multi is also fun because humans are.... in spectrum from being worse than Ai to being a lot better.
Also at times I enjoyed airquakes a lot.

Sadly, I have noticed that my interest has faded a lot for this game.

Manu-6S
04-02-2008, 07:57 AM
SEOW are great!

And what about megacoops with 50+ players? I remember a mission played by many Italian squads and some American squads where the Allied had to attack Genova's harbour... after 15 minutes the sky was plenty of white slipstream at 7km... but that time the server was weak and it crashed... now it should be better since they changed the hardware.

blairgowrie
04-02-2008, 08:52 AM
I believe all coops are limited to 32 players including SEOW. I know Oleg said he would expand that number for BOB.

Manu-6S
04-02-2008, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by blairgowrie:
I believe all coops are limited to 32 players including SEOW. I know Oleg said he would expand that number for BOB.

Yes, it was a dogfight mission but we played like a coop http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Choctaw111
04-02-2008, 11:19 AM
The multi-player coops are by the far the most fun (and immersive) flying I have ever done. You just never know what is going to happen, and flying with some buddies takes it to a whole new level.

X32Wright
04-02-2008, 11:27 AM
I never really played offline except to finish the BI6 mission and didnt play much of anything offline. ABout the only offline thing i did was to check the new skins I made on various maps to see how they look.

I started this game 2.5 years ago online doign FR flying on closed servers and getting killed whihc forced me to fly Mig-3ud and 'kanonenboots' as well as the Zerstorer and Stuka. I also was introduced to J.Reb's furballs nightly as well as Sarahzoom's which are the places I earned my wings so to speak.

These days nothing compares to doing Coops by Aviar,Bugzz,Ament and others on HL. I know nothing of flying and fighting offline. Online fights is the only avenue I know.

mortoma
04-02-2008, 08:21 PM
Offline because of lag issues, even when one has high-speed internet. The lagging, warping and planes floating like butterflies is enough to drive me batty. Plus, due to lag your gunfire hits planes when it shouldn't and misses when it should hit. This is bad.

Offline, though the AI stinks, the gameplay is seamless and your gunfire does what is supposed to do.

Plus all the hype from people about online being so great just does not add up at all.
I have had a lot of bad experiences online that makes problems with sucky AI pale in comparison.
The DF servers are lame and filled with whiney babies, cheater and worse. Coops can be fun but I have waited for hours for a good one to start.

Plus on top of all that is that you have no control of the game settings. If your PC can't handle the a ton of flak and fire from ships or whatever, it causes a lot of stuttering and your stuttery problems will actually make it worse for others playing on that server when you're on!! I hate to spoil things for other jsut because I have a sluggish PC. Why drag everyone else down??

Better to play offline.

TX-Gunslinger
04-03-2008, 12:50 AM
Seems like about once every two months from the beginning of Il2, we have to have a thread like this.

I've wondered what would have happened if UBI had divided up the forums along On-liners/Single-Players/COOP?

While probably spending most of my time playing on-line during since 2003, I do play single player and Coop's occasionally. I do get "burned out" sometimes on-line, or don't have time - or I am trying to learn a new aircraft that I have not spent enough time in - and that's when I go to the other modes of play. They all have their place.

With respect to COOPS and Single player - the greatest thing about them is the simple fact that ground objects and ships actually MOVE. This is the single greatest limitation to me about the dogfight mode and the sim in general. Taking out static targets is one thing in ground attack - taking out something that's not where it was at the beginning is another thing entirely. While it's great to fly against people, the single most immersion killing item to me is this lack of movement - which (I get to say about once a year http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) is the worst part of Carrier Aviation in PF.

I totally agree with Eco - so many talk about full-switch, historical servers, but so few actually populate them. Don't know if that's bad or good, but it has caused the loss of some great servers in that regard. The business of it is pretty simple - Hyperlobby can only support a few servers of this nature at a time. It also seems to me, at this time - there are many more 'new' people than ever before. New folks I think (don't have statistics so this is a complete gaff on my part) tend to gravitate to external view servers more in the beginning.

It does get a bit old to hear the back-and-forth about which is better and particularly which mode of play "more people participate in". None of us really have the data to prove anything one way or the other.

For online, face it - people suck - they always have and they always will. Get over it and move on. If you fly, shoot and cooperate well enough - it really doesn't matter, what anyone else does online. So some wiener stole your kill and shot over your shoulder - go kill something else. I wonder some times if the folks who scream the loudest are the same ones who get irate on the highways.

Also, some of the same folks you see in this forum - trashing online play - are the same folks you never, ever see on TeamSpeak. You can't really coordinate well by typing. That's why God invented TeamSpeak. It's easy - when you see a group flying together - same tags might give it away - then ask for their comms IP. It's not like your going on a date or anything.

To answer the question (why on earth it was posed I have no idea) - I enjoy all modes of the game. If you make me pick one I'd say online with my great friends who still fly, like Eco, TOAD, Thunderbolt, Col Sabeth, Pepper, Vox, BroWright, Hos, Direwolf, Thrud, Gypsy, Gate, Lunix, Dizz, Viper and the rest of TUSA, on comms and flying as a team. Most of us have been together for four years.

Nothing in gaming I've ever done actually compares with this experience. When my bud's are around and we are flying, it makes single player seem like masterbation.

Of course, not everyone has the time or connection to particpate on-line. It's certainly the most challenging and humbling. It's certainly been that for me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif But mostly on-line is about communicating, teamwork, tactics and friendship.

Have fun in whichever mode of the sim you choose to enjoy. It's your right.

Don't you guys have .50 cals and "the bar" to argue about anymore?

S~

Gunny

cmirko
04-03-2008, 02:17 AM
Originally posted by JG52MadAdler:
Here is an idea I was working on for my Squad.



The Battle of Corral Sea
(May 7-8, 1942)
Japanese Carrier task force (BLUE)
Carrier's: X 2 Shoho CVL & Shokaku CV
Heavy Cruisers: X 6
Light Cruisers: X 3
Destroyers: X 12


US Carrier task force (RED)


Carrier's: X 2 Lexington CV & Yorktown CV
Heavy Cruisers: X 7
Destroyers: X 13


Each side has 16x Fighters and 16x Dive Bombers.
Flight times between task forces will be no greater than 25 minutes ( 12 grids apart)
Each Carrier task force will be assigned 2 flights of AI fighter cover
Within these grids will be other enemy targets such as Supply Convoys, Destroyer groups and enemy scout aircraft, seaplanes and transports.
The mission objective is to find the other task carrier task force and sink one carrier.
Until this objective is achieved the campaign continues. If by five weeks no carriers have been sunk then the total number of team points wins.
Once a Carrier has been discovered strategies will have to be employed to sink as well as defend.

Each team will have a Operations commander. He will give orders as to Task force speed, heading, ship formation as well as flight operations.

Each flight group will have a group commander 1 Fighter/1 Bomber He will give orders as to flight operations.

Each flight will have a flight leader

Leaders will have to keep logs of all contacts and last known positions.

=============================================
Map is done should be kicking it off soon

sounds like a very nice SEOW campaign http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif hope that you are going to share the mission after its finished http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (would like to use it as a template for seow campaign....)

S!

rnzoli
04-03-2008, 05:05 AM
Originally posted by mortoma:
Offline because of lag issues, even when one has high-speed internet. The lagging, warping and planes floating like butterflies is enough to drive me batty. Plus, due to lag your gunfire hits planes when it shouldn't and misses when it should hit. This is bad.

Offline, though the AI stinks, the gameplay is seamless and your gunfire does what is supposed to do.
Once again, I am surprised to see such a totally biased, and as such, totally untrue post. The effects you describe are ONLY attributed to servers with poor bandwidth and lax requirements, but you still present it as a general wisdom. When you fly on a server with sufficient bandwidth, and settings that requires other players to have connections/PCs that can handle the load, you get absolutely no recognizable difference between online and offline play, in terms of stutters and gun accuracy. I am honing my gunnery skills offline, and use it online - no problems whatsoever.



Originally posted by mortoma:
Coops can be fun but I have waited for hours for a good one to start.
This was one reason a few guys operate co-op servers. On the one where I regularly fly, the average mission time in 20-35 minutes, you can start as soon as the previous finises. You also get a notification on a web-page when to join, so you can do things while you wait. Waiting for hours was a thing of the past. It's all served on a plate nowadays, try a better excuse, or just simply say you are not interested etc.


Originally posted by mortoma:
Plus on top of all that is that you have no control of the game settings. If your PC can't handle the a ton of flak and fire from ships or whatever, it causes a lot of stuttering and your stuttery problems will actually make it worse for others playing on that server when you're on!! I hate to spoil things for other jsut because I have a sluggish PC. Why drag everyone else down??
Did you know that playing a single player mission with the same amount of objects and flak will tie down much more of your PC resources than playing online? This is because the AI objects are quite resource-hungry. In DF, the static AI, and in Co-op the dynamic AI is handled by the server's CPU, offloading it from yours. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It's been tested.