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Frank028
03-14-2008, 04:13 PM
Hello. I have a problem with the 109s and manual prop pitch. Why is it so different than any other plane including the 190. I have no problem with any other plane and manual prop pitch, it actually feels natural, but in the 109 { any model} something is weird, engines burn out quickly and I have been noticing that I must use a prop pitch between 50 and 70% and never at full power. I Have been with this sim since Day One . I may not be able to tell you the tire pressure of a spitfire IX like some guys here, but I think that I am fairly Knowledgeable about ww2 aircraft. Can someone help me I would love to fly my 109 in manual mode. TIA Frankie

M_Gunz
03-14-2008, 04:31 PM
You have to stay on top of your engine revs, need to always be hearing the sound the engine
makes and ready to change pitch to keep revs below engine-blowing fast.

You need to understand that since you control pitch, it is unchanging except for you.
But prop pitch is not prop AOA -- the faster you go the more you need to increase 109 prop pitch
to keep the prop loading on your engine. The large change in speed from takeoff roll to in the
air without pitch change -can- let the engine if given enough power to go from 2500 rpm to 3000
and coming apart in just seconds. Stay on top of prop control if you run in manual mode!

It is not so hard with practice. Most of the time you set power and leave it there then vary
prop pitch to keep the rpms about where you desire. Before you increase power, if rpms are
already full then coarsen the pitch to slow the engine down. If you don't then adding power
will only cause the engine to over-rev. It works best with a slider like throttle to control
pitch but number keys as pitch by 10%'s and two keys as + and - 5% can also work out fine.
It's a little weird for a while then it feels natural, just be ready when changing power to
get the order of which to change first (power or pitch) to prevent either over-rev or prop
driving the engine which equals drag and loss of speed -- unless that's what you want like
during landing approach.

julian265
03-14-2008, 05:35 PM
The 109 differs from other aircraft in that it's manual mode DIRECTLY controls prop pitch, whereas in everything else you're actually changing the desired engine RPM, via a prop pitch governor.

Why would you use the 109 in manual mode? I did some quick level speed tests, and got more speed at auto than at a slightly higher than normal RPM.

M_Gunz
03-14-2008, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by julian265:
Why would you use the 109 in manual mode?

For me it can be fun just to fly but I use auto in combat.

Frank028
03-14-2008, 10:05 PM
So its safe to say that the 109 is the ONLY true manual prop pitch plane . And all other including the FW190 is via a governor. Is this the way it was in 1940, did the 109 pilots have a auto prop pitch mode. Anyone have a good link on this topic? Frankie

M_Gunz
03-15-2008, 07:10 AM
I'd like to know if the 109 manual mode is available on any other plane too.

DKoor
03-15-2008, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by Frank028:
Can someone help me I would love to fly my 109 in manual mode. Just watch engine rpm.
Once you aren't in optimal rpm range (more like optimal rpm single value, for instance around ~2,700rpm with MW50) your power drops.

Auto mode puts Daimler Benz in IL2 in max output mode (optimal in this case means max output unfortunately).

And that is all because people were complaining about 109 DB prop pitch exploit and it was "fixed" some time ago in a patch.

That all being said, 109 can not be flown on manual in this game. It was possible before but not now due to reasons I stated above.

julian265
03-15-2008, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by Frank028:
So its safe to say that the 109 is the ONLY true manual prop pitch plane . And all other including the FW190 is via a governor. Is this the way it was in 1940, did the 109 pilots have a auto prop pitch mode. Anyone have a good link on this topic? Frankie

It's safe to say that it's the only one that I know of! :P
The 190 uses a governor, but it will let you overrev in a steep dive when using 'manual' 100% pitch at full power.

The only planes with variable pitch that can kill their engines in manual mode in a steep dive are the 109 and 190's, probably the Ta 152 as well, but I'm not sure about that one.

M_Gunz
03-15-2008, 11:31 PM
Oh well, just checked and 4.08 is a bit different or maybe the 109F2 is just more resistant
to overspeed. -- well okay maybe it's a higher redline --

Manual Pitch: ON

Anyway if before I set pitch 100% (fine) and cranked enough power to be taking off at 2500rpm
the engine would blow soon after takeoff. That might have been on the E4, once I figured out
what went wrong I didn't go test em all.

So I set it up in the F2 and sure enough when I get up and level out the rpm rises by itself
with power at like 60% but to 2900 rpm. I cranked power to 85% and it made the rattling tin
cans noise at a bit over 3000 rpm.

JG53Frankyboy
03-17-2008, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
I'd like to know if the 109 manual mode is available on any other plane too.

available in all german DB601/605/603 driven planes............ thats Bf109s, Bf110s, Ta152C, Do335 IIRC

K_Freddie
03-17-2008, 10:22 AM
What I do is find the maximum revs the a/c engine can handle, set the throttle to 100% and then adjust the prop-pitch, so the engine settles at this max revs...
This I use for escaping, when just cruising to save fuel and engine temps, I'd set throttle to around 50-60% and adjust prop-pitch accordingly for max revs.

Also watch yout ATA indicator and try keep it high as possible.
ME109E at full tilt..
http://www.vanjast.com/IL2Pics/ManualPP.jpg

JG53Frankyboy
03-17-2008, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
What I do is find the maximum revs the a/c engine can handle, set the throttle to 100% and then adjust the prop-pitch, so the engine settles at this max revs...
This I use for escaping, ............

and you are realy faster than as with 110% in auto mode ??

M_Gunz
03-17-2008, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
I'd like to know if the 109 manual mode is available on any other plane too.

available in all german DB601/605/603 driven planes............ thats Bf109s, Bf110s, Ta152C, Do335 IIRC </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow!
Thanks!

The Tank... not like the FW's!

M_Gunz
03-17-2008, 05:17 PM
Looks like you've done some good testing Freddie. That's the best speed and not at 2600 rpm?
Not saying I don't believe you cause I bet you did try and know well enough.

Only thing, maybe it's my monitor is old but I find I need instrument lights on to make out
the guages quickly. My screen shows your screenshot as I would see it here, are your gages
dark with low-contrast numbers and needles? I fiddle with card settings but no one fits all.

K_Freddie
03-18-2008, 02:27 AM
This was on the Crimea map, on the way to Yalta.
I suppose it would be faster at 110%, but then I'd have overtemp problems.

This shot was with radiators full open, flying level (for the past 3-4 minutes), and found that with revs =~2400, you could fly forever and a day.

Using auto gives one a similar result, but your revs will likely be higher (probably due to higher PP) - I haven't tried this propper but have noticed in general flying that my revs are higher.
I find with manual, you can tweak a few more KPH's out of it.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

M_Gunz
03-18-2008, 06:56 AM
Yeah but with experience and care and skill and not in some throw it all to the limits
newb-easy manner.