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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 04:46 AM
Here it is:

The reason there is such boisterous whining for the patch is in direct correspondence to a lack of community which Ubi is directly responsible for not supporting. With the dispersion of the pilot's lounge and lack of opportunities for off topic discussion the forumers especially newer users have found the only thing that they can freely agree on and form some sort of bond or congruity over and that is over the lack of a patch.

So in essence what Ubi was trying to kill by doing away with off topic discussion has led to the creation of a bigger more destructive monster.

Kind of ironic, eh?

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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 04:46 AM
Here it is:

The reason there is such boisterous whining for the patch is in direct correspondence to a lack of community which Ubi is directly responsible for not supporting. With the dispersion of the pilot's lounge and lack of opportunities for off topic discussion the forumers especially newer users have found the only thing that they can freely agree on and form some sort of bond or congruity over and that is over the lack of a patch.

So in essence what Ubi was trying to kill by doing away with off topic discussion has led to the creation of a bigger more destructive monster.

Kind of ironic, eh?

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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 05:05 AM
The Reason There is So Much Patch Whining is :
A) too much whiners
B) RBJ got boring
C) there is no patch in sight
D) all of the above.

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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 05:24 AM
Um, a lot of my reason for patch whining is frustration at the current state of the "Completed" game I bought for 80 bucks Canadian.

Oh well, UBI clearly doesn't give a @#$!, which is how I'll feel years from now when this kind of customer attention comes to bite them in the buttocks.



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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 05:33 AM
Single player + sound bugs....i actually think thats not so bad....but single player lameness is great.

XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 05:34 AM
You're sorely overestimating the value of the defunct Pilots Lounge to the community IMHO.

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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 05:36 AM
The big issue i want a patch for is the fw190 bugs, since it is my favorite plane, id like it to be as best modeled and bug free as possible, granted i fly it well as is, itd be all the better bug free.

fluke39
07-17-2003, 10:16 AM
do you specialise in analytical, in-depth theories - centred around the lack of the pilots lounge and off-topic posts, which, despite their depth and amount of thought given to them, are just completely and utterly wrong? and paranoid to boot?




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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 11:37 AM
The reason theres so much patch whining, the game gets more annoying as you play it reguardless if you do very well online.

The ubi forums have maybe 1-2 interesting posts every 3 days and they get locked


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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 12:19 PM
The reason theres so much whining is that theres a lot of spoiled brats out there who are too used to getting thier own way and expect far too much.

Comon, all you whiney buggers, show me a flight sim with better(and/or more realitic) graphics, sound, flight models, damage models, free addons, and are totally bug free. Just remember that this patch is to tweak a few things, there are no real bugs at all in the game. As far as thats concerned, 1C games arent under any obligation to actually patch the game, as it works pretty much as advertised.

On a final ranting note, theres still to much of "this doesnt fly right", well, considering that most of the peaple havent even flown a plane never mind the plane that they are talking about, well all I can say is stop talking outa yer bunghole. It takes more than a book and a few numbers to work out how a plane flies, if a plane was said to out perform another plane yet it seems different in game, look at the pilots not the plane. Remember that during the war the air forces where having to adapt to new aircraft, tactics etc.. all the time. And being at the wrong side of the equation usually cost you yer life. We have the advantage of walking away from mistakes and learning from those who have already.

Rageman - Living up to his name.

XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 12:49 PM
See even rageman is extremely fustrated even tho he expresses it in a different way


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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 01:03 PM
I would like to add something new and original to this thread, but I am really lazy. So I will just repost one of my old posts. here you go:

I have come to realize that there are more important things in life than waiting for the first patch to IL2:Forgotten battles. However, since I am so bored due to a lack of interest in flying FB in its current state, i thought I would write something here, on this forum.

The original IL2 was very good, and for the first time in years, had me flying a WW2 Sim again. I eagerly awaited the arrival of Forgotten Battles(hereafter known as just FB), and purchased said title the day it arrived at my local EB. My initial impressions were less than positive, although not altogether negative.

The AI seemed at times much better and at times much worse. After playing through seven missions in the 109F2 campaign in Northern Russia, i realized that while the AI was better than that of IL2, the new environment and random missions of the campaign were ill suited for it. Also, the new campaign seems rather devoid of life, having short - often one sentence - debriefings and briefings. The missions lack variation and due to limitations of the AI, lack realistic resolutions.

The incredible accuaracy of the AI in head on passes, certain varieties of AA, AAA, and ship gunners is also a hindrance to smooth offline and online play. This, combined with several flight models that are obviously "off"(not just my opinion, oleg has commented on at least 5 planes that need some tweaking), and you have a lackluster online and offline experience.

Now, i hope that you anti-Patch whiners can at least see where we (the Patch whiners) are coming from at the very least. Not only do I not fully enjoy this game, but the reasons for this are actual problems with game, and not necessarily just my opinons. Genuine "bugs" if you will. The P-40 explosion bug for example, or the incredible stupidity of Ai at times. Now, I have heard Oleg state several times "the limits of technology". However, if it's broke - fix it.

All of this would mean that we (again, the Patch Whiners) are eagerly awaiting the release of this upcoming patch because we want to enjoy this game, but are having trouble doing so in its current condition. Thank You, S~

XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 01:13 PM
thrawn878 wrote:
- The big issue i want a patch for is the fw190 bugs,
- since it is my favorite plane, id like it to be as
- best modeled and bug free as possible, granted i fly
- it well as is, itd be all the better bug free.



What bugs are you speaking of? I think the 190 is just fine.





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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 01:29 PM
Rageman wrote:

On a final ranting note, theres still to much of
- "this doesnt fly right", well, considering that most
- of the peaple havent even flown a plane never mind
- the plane that they are talking about, well all I
- can say is stop talking outa yer bunghole. It takes
- more than a book and a few numbers to work out how a
- plane flies.

Fair bloody play. A long overdue rant.
After watching and reading over lots of years about Warbirds and their pilots. It seems to me that most of them have said that not one Spitfire,P51 etc, etc ever flew the same as the next. They were all had there own handling characteristics and quirks.
That's why they got so hacked off when their plane was in for service because they knew the replacement would handle different.
Tech Spec don't mean S**t. We don't know how they fly let alone in combat.

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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 02:00 PM
Although I will certainly appreciate the patch greatly whenever it comes, I do not feel any strong sense of frustration about the wait. The game as it is continues to give me pleasure, and it would do so even if it was never going to be patched. For me, it's a win/win situation. But I always have been a 'glass half-full' sort of person! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 02:24 PM
musickna wrote:
- Although I will certainly appreciate the patch
- greatly whenever it comes, I do not feel any strong
- sense of frustration about the wait. The game as it
- is continues to give me pleasure, and it would do so
- even if it was never going to be patched. For me,
- it's a win/win situation. But I always have been a
- 'glass half-full' sort of person!



Ditto here!

I have a few "small" issues (i.e. speed of P-47 and potency of the guns on the 109 F2/F4), but the game is immensely playable for me currently and any improvement is icing on the cake.

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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 02:34 PM
Rageman wrote:
- Comon, all you whiney buggers, show me a flight sim
- with better(and/or more realitic) graphics, sound,
- flight models, damage models, free addons, and are
- totally bug free.



Whether that's the case or not, with this kind of product support and customer appreciation, UBI is heading for a big kick in the nuts which they'll receive WHEN something else holds a candle to FB, which is when our dollars and this community will go there.

I'm not a whiney bugger, I just have an expectation to get a properly working product when I get charged an arm and a leg for one.

I also resent the indifference and disappearance of UBI people in this matter. I will show them my own disappearing act as soon as Oleg moves on. It'll be "thanks UBI, be seein' ya... not"...



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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 02:51 PM
Dexmeister wrote:I also resent the indifference and disappearance of
- UBI people in this matter. I will show them my own
- disappearing act as soon as Oleg moves on. It'll be
- "thanks UBI, be seein' ya... not"...


I agree Dex my rant is this I don't see why it takes so long to fix a sound problem, I can live with the flight models but the sound cutting in and out really blows.It seems to me they could have released something a little sooner for the sound prob at least.

The other thing is that we paid retail for something we already had 60% of in the first and seemed to have the support back then /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 02:58 PM
hehe


S!

M0NS



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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 03:29 PM
I have nothing but the utmost respect for 1C: Maddox Games, but from what I can see we have been almost abandoned by UBI. I am not a patch-whinner, but I can certainly understand why some are:
1. Oleg told us, even BEFORE the release of FB, that it would be patched soon after release. This means that consumers purchased the product with this expectation. Almost as if it were part of a purchase agreement.
2. Oleg has certainly been living up to his agreement. If I understand correctly, the version that we get will be the eighth version, or better, so there has been MUCH hard work on the part of 1C, and the Beta testers. (many of you are playing around with the leaked build7). Alot of this whinning would have been avoided if build4 had been patch number one, and build8 had been patch release number two. It was done that way with IL2.
3. Oleg, in the past, has always been a man of his word. Lately, I sense some frustration in his (sparse) postings. (i.e. he seems to be held back by something or someone. Care to guess who?) "Pictures on Friday" post comes to mind. My post count may be low, but I've been reading alot longer than I've been posting here. And I can tell you: This is not like Oleg, the man that used to chat and fly with members of this community.

So, why all this whinning? This is first time that I have ever stated my feelings about this, and it includes my reason for not whinning so far: I still respect 1C and their hard work. It would not be fair to them. Am I happy with Ubi? He!! No!!!!!! I hope that 1C moves away from Ubi as soon as it is contractually able to. I will always be a fan of Mr. Maddox and his team.
Tsisqua

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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 03:55 PM
We have become very spoiled by the near perfection of Oleg's sims to the point that we start whinning about rather trivial issues that WILL be remidied, but at this point we must remain patient. Oleg has given us unbelievable support in the past without charging us a cent by adding nearly a dozen planes to the original IL-2! Waiting for a patch for four months in some cases is not as long as some fans have had to endure. I waited for the Mafia patch for 7 MONTHS and nothing was added and it only corrected some sound issues! Oleg will not only give us one patch but he will most likely continue to give us more and more as long as UBI will let him devote his time to it and until the community has become almost totally satisfied. Would you rather have a community inundated with millions of 3rd party planes that look terrible and fly like freight trains or would you rather wait for the highest quality planes on the market? Those poor people who have to endure Microsoft's sims practically have to dish out $30 for a few new planes to come out in an already buggy and nearly unplayable game with craptacular scenery and arcadish flight models. We will have our patch in time. Until then, we must continue to lighten up the situation by having some more hilarious picture posts. I have a feeling there will be a lot fewer Wurgerwhinners by the time the patch comes out.

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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 04:03 PM
MackZ wrote:

. . . craptacular . . .

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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 04:33 PM
The real reason is....

All of us got so excited about getting the game (like we are about getting the patch) that we rushed out to buy it as soon as it was on the shelves. We didn't wait for reviews, we didn't look for a demo. We looked for the nearest place we could fork over our money to UBI. We found that place, and we did fork over our money.

UBI, like every business, simply wants our money. They cashed in on the hype created in here and other places. The sequel theory. We all know about it (anything with a II, 2.0, etc, in it sucks bad compared to the original, but sells soley on hype) and we fell for it again.

People biatch and whine about stuff like this but it's their own bloody fault. Obviously UBI has no obligation to fix, patch, whatever, their product. The final point of sale is now in the past.

This is also one of the reasons business software blows chunks.

If people were more responsible to themselves as a consumer this general situation would never have come about. But it has, and UBI, like any business, has bean successfull at taking advantage of it.

Can you blame them? Wouldn't you be pleased if you owned a business and had the money coming in with less R&D, production time, whatever?

It's a business model based on relying on the consumers stupidity and lack of rights.

Moroons, every one




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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 04:59 PM
Spot on, Mutt; I couldn't add a single thing to what you said...

Regards,
HerrBaron

XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 05:14 PM
the problem with the 190 can be better told by others the big issue i see thus far is its high speed handeling is poor, it should be far better.

XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 05:38 PM
madsarmy wrote:
- Rageman wrote:
-
- On a final ranting note, theres still to much of
-- "this doesnt fly right", well, considering that most
-- of the peaple havent even flown a plane never mind
-- the plane that they are talking about, well all I
-- can say is stop talking outa yer bunghole. It takes
-- more than a book and a few numbers to work out how a
-- plane flies.
-
- Fair bloody play. A long overdue rant.
- After watching and reading over lots of years about
- Warbirds and their pilots. It seems to me that most
- of them have said that not one Spitfire,P51 etc, etc
- ever flew the same as the next. They were all had
- there own handling characteristics and quirks.
- That's why they got so hacked off when their plane
- was in for service because they knew the replacement
- would handle different.
- Tech Spec don't mean S**t. We don't know how they
- fly let alone in combat.

Well, you don't need either tech spec or pilot's testimonials to know that there's something wrong with a P-40 that explodes for no reason. And having at least pilot's accounts to refer to you can tell that the P-47 in this sim rolls more like a DC-3 and that it's speed (both in the dive and level flight) is not up to what it truly was.

The I-153 flies like a UFO. And both it and the I-16 are able to absorb battle damage more like a P-47. Pilot accounts on both sides testify to the fact that these two planes were routinely shredded and flamed in huge numbers accross the Eastern front.

And while pilots had a preferance for the "quirks" of their personal mounts, quirks are all they really were. If there weren't broad and generalized differences to be discerned amoungst different a/c types then what would be the point in having different designs.

So, while I've never been one to be a patch whiner I can see where some of the complaints are coming from. And even I am beginning to get a little impatient.

XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 05:45 PM
Stuff is getting fixed now.

No use getting too excited, just be patient.

It seems they are probably close, just needing to iron out any new bugs, etc...


We've been updated - Oleg said one week of fixing and another for testing, that was a week ago.


1. they are fixing it.
2. they are informing you of the status.
3. they want to give you a true fix and not just throw out fixes piecemeal at a time


Tweaking FM, DM, CEM is not the easiest task!!!

What more?

S!
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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 07:44 PM
LilHorse

I'm not saying this game is faultless. Far from it. I was just saying that most people seem to be hung up on tech details that really aren't that important. I myself was looking forward to flying the P40. The thing blows to pieces for no reason (BUG big bug) no problem. How many other planes are there to fly? I just picked another. It will be sorted in the patch.
I fly what works well at the moment in a buggy FB and am having endless hours of fun. Lets get the class A bugs sorted first so everyone can enjoy this game.
If we ain't careful Oleg is going to think screw you lot and not think its worth bothering with in the future if we all don't stop moaning about unnecessary things like the ailerons on the 109 in my luftwaffe album go to 25 degs but in FB they only go to 20. Will there be a patch for this.


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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 07:46 PM
UBI got what the wanted and obviously are well content with current situation.

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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 09:31 PM
LilHorse wrote:
- Well, you don't need either tech spec or pilot's
- testimonials to know that there's something wrong
- with a P-40 that explodes for no reason. And having
- at least pilot's accounts to refer to you can tell
- that the P-47 in this sim rolls more like a DC-3 and
- that it's speed (both in the dive and level flight)
- is not up to what it truly was.
So you've flown both a DC-3 AND a P-47? Actually dont mean to be offensive, but thats really what some of my post is about, you dont have any idea what the P-47 rolls like, im sure it's going to be rectified in the patch, but its not going to be a huge difference. As for the P-40, its about the only true showstopper bug i've come across (I do admit, that other players may be having genuine problems with some aspects of the game), fair enough. But theres countless other planes to play, surely you can fly them and wait patiently.


- The I-153 flies like a UFO. And both it and the
- I-16 are able to absorb battle damage more like a
- P-47. Pilot accounts on both sides testify to the
- fact that these two planes were routinely shredded
- and flamed in huge numbers accross the Eastern
- front.

Yes, the I-153 does fly like a UFO, thats because its light and very manueverable. What it does lack is speed, if you get taken down by an I-153, you've obviosly been very unlucky or very stupid to fight it in its own enviroment. And Besides, pilot quality accounted for most of the VVS losses during the Barbarossa Campaign, we have Combat Veteren Luftwaffe pilots with superior training and and better combat techniques verses the poorly trained with even poorer moral VVS Pilots. As for durability, well i've not had any problems bringing one down.

Rageman - Living up to his name.

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 12:53 AM
musickna wrote:
- Although I will certainly appreciate the patch
- greatly whenever it comes, I do not feel any strong
- sense of frustration about the wait. The game as it
- is continues to give me pleasure, and it would do so
- even if it was never going to be patched. For me,
- it's a win/win situation. But I always have been a
- 'glass half-full' sort of person!

My take on the patch and UBI feedback situations (I think of them as separate issues):

The glass is half full, but pretty soon I'm going to get thirsty again.



I also think some people are jumping to conclusions regarding UBI's strategy. (The "they've got our money already, so they don't care about the patch" crowd.) If they were talking about The Next Sim (TM) coming up next year or something, and had never patched FB at its release, then we'd be at the "fool me once, shame on you" stage. If we (the flight sim community) bought The Next Sim anyway, then we'd be at the "fool me twice, shame on me" stage. IMHO, we should judge UBI by what they've done in the past and what they're doing now, not what they haven't actually done yet.

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Message Edited on 07/17/0307:06PM by Leadfinger_71

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 01:13 AM
Here's a simple solution:

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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 02:10 AM
What has 1C: Maddox Games learned from IL-2? I've just begun to fly ether of these sims, patch 1.1...1.1a..1.2..1.2ov.. and some in between! I see guys like me all the time asking which ones I need and what do they do! Will there be 1.1a..1.2..for FB I don't know! but could be when we see 1.1 there's no need, that would be nice and worth waiting for. If so think of the time spent giving us new add-ons like the Med or Pacific theaters..again I haven't a clue, its all very new to me, but as FB is now I can fly it, there's some other SIM'S out there I wont mention by name that where a complete waste of money and time!......looking forward to 1.1 soon I hope. And there's my whine! I feel so much better now.

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 02:57 AM
S~All

I've been a 1 flight sim fella for the past 5 years. I fell in love with online flying and it became my recreation time and passion to be 'all I could' for my squad. It turned into something much more than I expected...kinda like my Father's 60s era bowling night. Drink a beer..bomb a target..save a friend..die for a buddy...then swap war stories the following day for years to come.

Patch? Cool- they plan to make this better! I'm still waiting for a better pc and wondering if online play is worth practicing for. 16 players max? It took me 3 years to begin to recognize the names of other flyers in the old sim. I guess it is difficult to hold a huge amount of flyers in a server with this much graphics. I'm used to servers of 30-50 flyers loose in the sky.

I try to get myself excited..I mean the flight and graphics rock! The details and surprises..something new happens on my little jaunts everyday! I just can't see how it could all come together unless we ALL can takes sides and take to the air to duke it out for air supremecy! <--spell chk!?

psst..Buzz..pc? :P

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 06:29 AM
Bah!

You poor little babies can't have your patch when you demand it.
Let's put this all in perspective ok?
Repeat after me


IT IS ONLY A GAME

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 06:34 AM
MarkZ, since you're in Monterey you really oughta let me whine in person bud /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif