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View Full Version : Secret Weapon of the Dora (combat flaps)



XyZspineZyX
12-13-2003, 07:56 AM
See below

Message Edited on 12/13/0301:01AM by TX-Zen

XyZspineZyX
12-13-2003, 07:56 AM
See below

Message Edited on 12/13/0301:01AM by TX-Zen

XyZspineZyX
12-13-2003, 08:03 AM
bump

Awsum post! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-13-2003, 08:04 AM
Darn forum is acting up again:



This post is for the dedicated Dora jocks out there or perhaps more accurately the ones who would like to become better with the plane. While many Dora fliers are probably well aware of this feature, I thought it might be a good idea to elaborate a little.


Combat flaps...it might seem out of place for a plane like the Dora to use them since flat turns are out of the question under most circumstances... but when defensive combat flaps are in my opinion the most powerful tool the Dora has (when combined with it's stellar roll rate). At low speeds (generally less than 300kph) the Dora has a surprising ability to turn well if stick forces are applied properly. When defensive this turn capability can be exploited by doing a partial rolling scissors.


To clarify, a scissors is generally advantageous to the plane with the higher roll rate because of the nature of how the move is executed. Briefly, a scissors happens when the defensive fighter makes repeated opposite turns. As angle off is generated by turn to the left for example, the bandit will naturally roll and come into plane with you. You then roll to the opposite direction and begin a right hand turn, generating angle off again. Effectively you are rolling left, pulling into a left turn, rolling right and pulling into a right turn, repeating until the bandit is no longer on your 6.

The opponent is forced to roll again and again to keep up, each time suffering from the inherent delay in his reflexes. Because of the superior roll rate of the Dora, each reversal begins to generate a larger and larger advantage because it takes longer than you for the opponent to finish his roll as he tries to follow.

Because of the Dora's tendency to snap roll into a stall when doing this move, it is only of limited effectiveness under normal circumstances. But by adding a single notch of combat flaps, the move becomes simply devastating if flown properly.

The trick to it is timing, as it is with everything in ACM. I generally make the left hand roll and turn, wait for about 3 to 4 seconds while turning enough to get the bandit in sight again at my 7 o'clock. As soon as I see his wings commit to the left hand turn, I do a hard roll back over to the right and enter the right turn aggressively, but taking care not to over do it and flip out. At first I enter into the turn gently to prevent stalling, but then rapidly increase the stick force to pull hard G's while looking back to my 5 o'clock. When the bandit commits again, I reverse back to the left.

On each reversal I usually add a nose low motion to foil any spray and pray shooting and often times will go nose up to further complicate his aim. Part of this is a controlled move to force the opponent out wards so that we keep coming more and more into a head to head and part of it is a bit of randomness to keep him guessing.

Combat flaps are key to this manuever...they help reduce airpspeed somewhat which tends to make the bandit overshoot; at the same time the reduced airspeed and properties of the flap use tend to help tighten your turn radius and finaly they aid tremendously in the controllability of the Dora during difficult manuevers. As we all know from experience, the Dora needs all the help she can get in stall control.


This tactic is applicable to any plane in the game, but works best with planes that have a roll advantage over the bandit of the moment. For the Dora, I think it is by far it's most important asset in close quarters or when engaged by multiple bandits that you cannot simply outrun.

Keeping eyes on your bandit is the most important part and is also the most difficult but if done properly allows you to judge when to reverse the turn. A rule of thumb is 3-4 seconds then reverse, with the goal being to eventually force the opponent into a nearly head on position. While you may end up slow and without a large amount of energy, the bandit will also be depleted and you can then use your relatively neutral position to take advantage of the incredible acceleration and power of the Dora to regain the advantage. Another secondary benefit is that with practice you can force the bandit into being too aggressive when following you, causing him to stall out himself.


I have used this tactic on numerous occasions and have found it to be the single most effective technique for getting out of a bad spot. Practice makes perfect and the more you fly the Dora in aggressive, low speed manuevers the better you will be able to take advantage of the typical stall figher's overzealous tendency to blindly follow you.

Combat flaps...I don't hear much talk about their use on the Dora but in my opinion they truly are the secret weapon of this fine aircraft.

S~~

TX-Zen
Black 6
TX Squadron CO
http://www.txsquadron.com ( <A HREF=)" target=_blank>http://www.txsquadron.com</a>
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TX-Zen
Black 6
TX Squadron CO
http://www.txsquadron.com
clyndes@hotmail.com (IM only)


http://www.txsquadron.com/uploaded/tx-zen/Zensig2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
12-13-2003, 08:05 AM
It posted fine before.

Thanks

XyZspineZyX
12-13-2003, 08:07 AM
I agree, the most AC can benefit from combat flaps, especially LW ones. FYI you can put flaps on a rotary (slider) and have more fine control than the combat/takeoff/landing default

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XyZspineZyX
12-13-2003, 08:26 AM
S! I have used this in the Dora since FB and find it a great tactic, pretty much the only tactic when jumped by a guy from higher alt. One night I was playing with the dora, testing her limits and got down and dirty with a 109 F4. Our little turn and loop battle lasted about 10-15 minutes until I ran outta fuel. Never once did I feel in real danger, if my gunnery skills were up to par I wouldve had him.

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"The future battle on the ground will be preceded by battle in the air. This will determine which of the contestants has to suffer operational and tactical disadvantages and be forced throughout the battle into adoption compromise solutions." --Erwin Rommel

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XyZspineZyX
12-13-2003, 09:23 AM
Doh was that needed Zen we will run out of tricks soon when you continue http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Regards,
Hyperion

XyZspineZyX
12-13-2003, 10:55 AM
Thanks for the tip - I'll be sure to try it next time I fly the 190, though I hope it's not needed /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

XyZspineZyX
12-13-2003, 11:14 AM
TX-Zen wrote:
- The opponent is forced to roll again and again to
- keep up, each time suffering from the inherent delay
- in his reflexes.


Forced to roll again and again?

The opponent is very stupid if he follows a Dora like this and deserves to be shot down for being stupid.

And why is the opponent forced to roll again and again?

When I encounter a Dora doing this I just breat off and climb, keeping the Dora in my vision and attack again when it stops rolling.

Hawgdog
12-13-2003, 12:01 PM
You've never thought, a low and slow 190, I'll go chew 'im up? Then you've bled too much speed and now its a battle.
Good tip, I hate 190's I'll remember this in case they read the same post! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


Cappadocian_317 wrote:
- Forced to roll again and again?
-
- The opponent is very stupid if he follows a Dora
- like this and deserves to be shot down for being
- stupid.
-
- And why is the opponent forced to roll again and
- again?


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XyZspineZyX
12-13-2003, 03:16 PM
Hawgdog wrote:
- You've never thought, a low and slow 190, I'll go
- chew 'im up? Then you've bled too much speed and now
- its a battle.

Nope, the FW190 flap trick has been there for some time now and I never turn fight if I don't have to, alt and speed are far more important anyway.

XyZspineZyX
12-13-2003, 03:27 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
-
- Forced to roll again and again?
-
- The opponent is very stupid if he follows a Dora
- like this and deserves to be shot down for being
- stupid.
-
- And why is the opponent forced to roll again and
- again?
-
- When I encounter a Dora doing this I just breat off
- and climb, keeping the Dora in my vision and attack
- again when it stops rolling.
-
-
-
-
-

S~ Cappadocian


You are correct that following a Dora in this manner is not the smartest thing to do, but it happens all the time /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



None the less, if you're opponent breaks off in this manner you have achieved your desired results...you have bought time, delayed being shotdown and can begin working yourself out of the predicament. Certainly he will be right above you and by no means are you free and clear, but you are no longer being directly fired up which is clearly much better than having a bandit latched on and firing at you.


Hyperion...sorry to spill the beans lol /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

TX-Zen
Black 6
TX Squadron CO
http://www.txsquadron.com
clyndes@hotmail.com (IM only)


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Message Edited on 12/13/0308:32AM by TX-Zen

XyZspineZyX
12-13-2003, 06:02 PM
If the guy behind you does break off and up...then I'd figure you would have two options. One...he's now climbing and loosing speed...kick in the MW50, raise the flaps, close the rad, and give her full throttle. Two, if he's coming in for the attack and you've got enough speed up, the Dora can climb fairly well the dangerous option but one giving some chance for escape would be to go into a high AoA manuver and cross just behind or just infront of the guy trying to bring his guns to bear.

Thats a really tough spot to be in...its hard to get out but thanks for the scissors tip. I'd been using that in a D-9 quite a bit but I wasn't sure if I wanted combat flaps or not.

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XyZspineZyX
12-13-2003, 06:31 PM
georgeo76 wrote:
- I agree, the most AC can benefit from combat flaps,
- especially LW ones. FYI you can put flaps on a
- rotary (slider) and have more fine control than the
- combat/takeoff/landing default
-

Sounds like somebody we all know and love! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Ronnie

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XyZspineZyX
12-13-2003, 07:52 PM
this is a great tactic but a loop or hammerhead tactic usually ends that scirmish. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
12-13-2003, 09:39 PM
Trust me, many planes that turn well can follow this move if they are not too close and use a lot of rudder. What you gain by rolling fast he gains by turning fast. Is not always working.

XyZspineZyX
12-13-2003, 09:45 PM
Staying on anyones tail for more than 2-3 seconds without a certain gunnery solution is foolhardy in the current environment. Face it there is a 1-2 second window to squeeze the trigger and then you are out of there like a cat on fire!

Nice paragraph and info.

Happy hunting and check six!

Tony Ascaso, RN

XyZspineZyX
12-13-2003, 09:59 PM
Excellent post Zen!

Been flying A9 almost exclusively since B-17G came out. Trying to use the Nebelwerfer 210mm rockets to stay out of the murderous fire. Works great offline, I can hit 10 for 10 against AI bombers at 930-960 meters with -30 mils offset in Revi at 4 sec rocket burn.

Anyway, have'nt had any success with this online...Last nite gave up and went to '44 Dora.....what an awesome airplane...turns like a dream with combat flaps...

You mentioned earlier what for me is the easiest thing to say but hardest to do and that is to keep you eye on bandit while conducting appropriate ACM and also keeping situational awareness......


Question is: Do you use Track IR? Or have you mastered the thumb to head coordination with hat?

Thanx



Message Edited on 12/13/0309:01PM by TexasGunslinger

XyZspineZyX
12-14-2003, 12:56 AM
TexasGunslinger wrote:
- You mentioned earlier what for me is the easiest
- thing to say but hardest to do and that is to keep
- you eye on bandit while conducting appropriate ACM
- and also keeping situational awareness......
-
-
- Question is: Do you use Track IR? Or have you
- mastered the thumb to head coordination with hat?
-
- Thanx
-


S~

Good old fashioned thumb and hat switch here. I don't have Track IR (though it sounds very cool), don't use newview and don't use padlock at all either. I never really liked anything that takes over my view control, I prefer to do the looking myself.

In a normal evening my hat switch is pretty much on the go constantly, I'm rarely ever in one spot for long...I live in constant fear of getting hit my surprise and I tend to be a paraoid hat switch using mofo.

You ought to see the size of my right thumb /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



Another little tip I have found invaluable is binding a button to the look up view...in combination with the hat switch this is extremely useful for keeping eyes on the bandit.





TX-Zen
Black 6
TX Squadron CO
http://www.txsquadron.com
clyndes@hotmail.com (IM only)


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