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View Full Version : Who says you can't stall the P-39 in FB 1.1b?



XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 03:43 PM
The P-39 definitely stalls with a fairly vicious snap roll, which appears to be historically accurate.

However:

The difference seems to be in==>gravity assisted turns<==

With the P-39 nose-down into even a slightly diving turn it apparantly will not stall at all, even in a resulting low speed, high-G loop or turn.

Nose-up hard turns or yanking back into a zoom-climb can induce a stall.




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<center>"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 03:43 PM
The P-39 definitely stalls with a fairly vicious snap roll, which appears to be historically accurate.

However:

The difference seems to be in==>gravity assisted turns<==

With the P-39 nose-down into even a slightly diving turn it apparantly will not stall at all, even in a resulting low speed, high-G loop or turn.

Nose-up hard turns or yanking back into a zoom-climb can induce a stall.




<center><img src= "http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/FW190-A0-52.jpg" height=215 width=365>

<center>"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

Sholto Douglas, 17 July 1942

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 03:50 PM
Surely they mean they find it harder to stall it on purpose. I can still stall if I get too frisky at low speed. It still is a plane to be respected. Bungle it up and its bye bye Sally,all the way down.

Kaptain Maico
249th I.A.P.
Group II
Trng Officer

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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 03:54 PM
Which is fine because it makes her exclusive again.
I've seen a lot of people saying the stalls didn't change.
Maybe their test base isn't expansive enough.
I know I've flown the P-39 almost exclusively since my first week of the original IL-2 and all through FB so far.
I think I'd have a pretty good idea of it's stall points and I can honestly say it stalls easier now.



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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 04:05 PM
I guess some of us have a lighter touch than others. Anything can be stalled if you try to do it on purpose. I don't claim to be a great pilot, but I don't jerk the plane all over the sky either.

Buzz_25th
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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 04:05 PM
it definately stalls more now. i just got done with an online dogfight with an La and put it in a stall. luckily recovered though. in the previous version you could easily pull back on the stick and out turn an La. now you must be more gentle. when flown correctly this thing will decimate people.

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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 04:09 PM
BpGemini wrote:

- I know I've flown the P-39 almost exclusively since
- my first week of the original IL-2 and all through
- FB so far.
- I think I'd have a pretty good idea of it's stall
- points and I can honestly say it stalls easier now.


I think it stalls pretty easy now as well, provided the nose is level or in a climbing attitude.




<center><img src= "http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/FW190-A0-52.jpg" height=215 width=365>

<center>"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

Sholto Douglas, 17 July 1942

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 04:14 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- I guess some of us have a lighter touch than others.
- Anything can be stalled if you try to do it on
- purpose. I don't claim to be a great pilot, but I
- don't jerk the plane all over the sky either.


That's not the point though Buzz. I can keep the P-39 from stalling; then again I could do that in the original IL-2 as well. The point is it stalls a lot easier. The same points at which I could turn the '39 now result in a stall, which is fine by me. But to say it doesn't stall as easy or it stalls the same is not correct IMO. Also it's not about jerking the controls. Flying the P-39 for as long as I have leaves you with a very steady hand. This is about stalls points not flying ability.


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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 04:45 PM
I guess if you don't push a plane into a stall. You don't notice thst it's stalling easier. Maybe i'm just closer to the stall now than I was before. I flew the P-39 in the original IL2, and I still fly it the same now.

I know when I was doing those slow scissors yesterday in the P-39, that the same moves in the Yak3 would have made it shudder. The same with the La7. So, a plane that doesn't stall any worse than a Yak3 to me is a plane that doesn't stall easy. The point is your comparing the P-39 post patch to the P-39 pre patch which didn't stall at all.

Amyway, the bottom line is it's not a hard plane to fly as far as stalls goes. Fly the Fw190 to compare easy and hard stalls.

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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 05:21 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- I guess if you don't push a plane into a stall. You
- don't notice thst it's stalling easier. Maybe i'm
- just closer to the stall now than I was before. I
- flew the P-39 in the original IL2, and I still fly
- it the same now.
-
- I know when I was doing those slow scissors
- yesterday in the P-39, that the same moves in the
- Yak3 would have made it shudder. The same with the
- La7. So, a plane that doesn't stall any worse than a
- Yak3 to me is a plane that doesn't stall easy. The
- point is your comparing the P-39 post patch to the
- P-39 pre patch which didn't stall at all.
-
-
- Amyway, the bottom line is it's not a hard plane to
- fly as far as stalls goes. Fly the Fw190 to compare
- easy and hard stalls.



I think I have a pretty good idea of what stalls easy and what's harder to stall pre-patch. I would think you would need to perform more than slow scissors to come to a firm stand point as well. I would also think more than a few days of testing in different scenarios would be needed to grasp differences between planes. I wont voice an opinion on any of the other planes right now simply because I don't have the same relationship with those planes as I have with the P-39. I can jump in the P-39 for 10 minutes and recognize that it stalls a lot easier. I wouldn't compare it to any other after a couple of cheesy tests though. I agree I am comparing the '39 pre-patch to the'39 post-patch. That's the point of the statement "It stalls easier now". Yourself and a few others said it was even harder to stall and that's just not a valid statement IMO. That's the point. If you want to say, "I think the FW-190 stalls easier than the P-39" then fine, those who wish to argue that case will test that. I'm not in a position to do so as I haven't tested the post-patch FW-190, but I do know that the P-39 post-patch stalls much easier. I haven't tested the other planes, but if they didn't change much in stall characteristic I would put the P-39 in the top three for deadly stalls with no hesitation.




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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 05:31 PM
Not exactly a quick test Gem. I've been flying the beta patch for a month.

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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 05:35 PM
Last night after I got patched up I tried the new 39...I got into an unrecoverable flat spin and had to bail...... I think the new FMs aree great. I have yet to try the 190 or Mes...or Las as well.... Of course this will take weeks to geyt the full flavor of the new FMs.

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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 05:37 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- Not exactly a quick test Gem. I've been flying the
- beta patch for a month.



Yes but it was being tweaked for that month.


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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 05:46 PM
I know your over protective of the P-39, and don't like the idea of it being an easy plane to fly. I don't either. My squad flys the P-39 mostly, and i flew the patched version for at least 3 hours before I said anything on this forum. It doesn't feel any different than the 08 patch plane. does it feel differnt than the non patched plane. Yes, it does, but that plane was like a Hurricane to fly. Does the patched plane stall easier than the non patched plane? Yes, it does, but since the non patched P-39 was almost impossible plane to stall. That doesn't make the patched P-39 easy to stall. It's still not close to the P-39 in IL2. It's still an easy plane to fly. Bottom line.

Accurate to the real plane? I wouldn't bet any money on it.

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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 05:49 PM
I think the "charm" of the P-39 wasn't if it could stall. It just was that, if you stalled your P-39 you had a much greater chance of going into a flat spin.

It was that aspect that scared off so many newbies. Not if it stalled, but the fact that when you did you were F__ed

I'm glad it's back in the game /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Clay.Pigeon


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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 05:56 PM
Is the performance of the P-39 otherwise improved in the patch?

I was flying FWs last night and getting chewed pretty good by the P-39s. I don't recall having that much trouble with them pre-patch.

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 06:00 PM
They climb better, and the guns hit harder. It's a pretty effective plane now. As dangerous as the Yak/La's.

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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 06:06 PM
I'm a total Noob - but the P-39 hasn't put me off at all.

Don't really know the difference pre/post patch but I find it fairly straight forward to recover from the spins - to the extent that I'm even thinking it might be a good last gasp get out move! If that works or not remains to be seen. I dont find it stalls that much - only when I panic and grasp at manouvers, most of the time it's sweet to me.

Anyway I love the '39 and I aim to get to be a real troublemaker in it. My view is If I can get the hang of it then everything esle might be that mutch easier.

D

I was to take responsability for the newcomer Erich Hartmann. I looked at him and thought: Oh my God, what are they sending us now? What a baby!

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 06:07 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- I know your over protective of the P-39, and don't
- like the idea of it being an easy plane to fly. I
- don't either. My squad flys the P-39 mostly, and i
- flew the patched version for at least 3 hours before
- I said anything on this forum. It doesn't feel any
- different than the 08 patch plane. does it feel
- differnt than the non patched plane. Yes, it does,
- but that plane was like a Hurricane to fly. Does the
- patched plane stall easier than the non patched
- plane? Yes, it does, but since the non patched P-39
- was almost impossible plane to stall. That doesn't
- make the patched P-39 easy to stall. It's still not
- close to the P-39 in IL2. It's still an easy plane
- to fly. Bottom line.
-
- Accurate to the real plane? I wouldn't bet any
- money on it.



You're right I am protective of my baby! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
But I'm also completely sound of mind and opinion.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I don't agree with you. If you look at this thread there are several people who think the deadly spins are back. The P-39 is not an easy plane to fly. If it were I would be flying something more challenging. Even before the patch the P-39 was harder to get kills in than, Yaks, Las, Hurris, 109s, and 262s. If the P-47 and FW-190 were flown strategically then you could possible add them as well. If the above statement were not true then you would see more '39s online than Yaks because the majority wants an uber plane over a good challenge. Noobs can jump in a Yak-3 and do pretty well for themselves the same can not be said for the P-39. It has a nice gun platform but you need more than that to be efficient with this plane. I just don't agree with your view on this.



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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 06:09 PM
I fell into a flat spin a while ago. Quite unrecoverable, but I did it on purpose to check FM. The spin was much faster than before, and seemed to spin faster yet as it fell. I actually got a bit dizzy while trying in vain to recover. I like it. Seems more like what I have read about the plane. We need more threads like this this one where people are comparing notes so that we can help each other get used to the new stuff.

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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 06:19 PM
Gem,

You might read the post right above yours./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I think the reason you don't see more noobs in the P-39 is because they can't hit anything with the cannon.

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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 06:28 PM
JV44Rall wrote:
- Is the performance of the P-39 otherwise improved in
- the patch?
-
- I was flying FWs last night and getting chewed
- pretty good by the P-39s. I don't recall having
- that much trouble with them pre-patch.



You've been in my server a few times pre-patch are you saying you never had problems with me?

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif




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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 06:30 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- Gem,
-
- You might read the post right above yours. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
- I think the reason you don't see more noobs in the
- P-39 is because they can't hit anything with the
- cannon.



You forget I was a noob in this plane straight out. I was speaking of the majority. Not the minority of thrill seekers and dare devils.

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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 06:32 PM
Just go fly your baby, and put a cork in it../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 06:34 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- Just go fly your baby, and put a cork in it../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

As long as you do the same.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif



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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 06:34 PM
You first../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 06:46 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- You first../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



Oh no no, age before beauty. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif


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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 06:52 PM
No no, youth before beauty.

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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 06:53 PM
Nope, Gem. IIRC, you've given me plenty of trouble. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

The idea is that, whereas I had plenty of trouble with snakes before, there's all that plus about 25% more post patch.

BpGemini wrote:
-
- JV44Rall wrote:
-- Is the performance of the P-39 otherwise improved in
-- the patch?
--
-- I was flying FWs last night and getting chewed
-- pretty good by the P-39s. I don't recall having
-- that much trouble with them pre-patch.
-
-
-
- You've been in my server a few times pre-patch are
- you saying you never had problems with me?

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 06:59 PM
JV44Rall wrote:
- Nope, Gem. IIRC, you've given me plenty of trouble.
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
-
- The idea is that, whereas I had plenty of trouble
- with snakes before, there's all that plus about 25%
- more post patch.



I guess I'll find out Saturday (next time I get to play online).
Against the AI in the QMB, even though they were all killed (themselves), I found my maneuvers more restricted than before.
I shouldn't cement my opinion until I get online though.

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<font size=+2><font color="black">Still loving my P-39</font></font> </table style>
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<table style="filter:glow[color=green,strength=4)"> www.blitzpigs.com</center> (http://www.blitzpigs.com</center>) </table style>

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 11:11 PM
Plus you have to give the nose cannon a wide berth.

You can have the ShVaks and the .50 cals, the 37mm nose cannons are what I respect more than anything.


<center><img src= "http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/FW190-A0-52.jpg" height=215 width=365>

<center>"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

Sholto Douglas, 17 July 1942

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 12:32 AM
The cobra is the sweatest plane for me( after the now porKed K4), it's more better after the patch, and the stalls are more chalangeing now, But I got the hang of it. BTW, the 37mm is definitelly not for noobs, even if one hit of that beauty, can send you flaming down./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


<center>"The show must go on..."<center>
<center>http://www.btinternet.com/~jj_b/vaw/images/iar81t.jpg </center>
<center>A 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. A 'great'
landing is one after which they can use the plane again<center>