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View Full Version : Luthier: The F4U-1 "birdcage" should be added or replace the Corsair I "birdcage"



MAILMAN------
10-24-2006, 10:15 PM
The Corsair I is the only version of the F4U-1 (framed canopy bars or bird cage) that is represented in the game. The default skin features a three-tone green camouflage scheme.

"The original F4U-1 "birdcage", known as the Cosair I, (95 delivered), was the initial version supplied to Nos 1830 and 1833 Sqns in the US, but none of these ever saw combat. This honor fell to the more definitive Corsair II, an anglicised version of the F4U-1A" "Corsair Aces of World War 2" by Mark Styling.
Many Color Plates of Corsairs in this book by the way. First Carrier Operation for any F4U Corsair was the Corsair II from HMS Victorious in April 1944 as escorts on the attack on Tirpitz in Norway and concurrently in the Indian Ocean in April 1944 the Corsair II's operated from HMS Illustrious swept the areas clean of commerce raiders east of Ceylon in the Indian Ocean along with Hellcats from the USS Saratoga.

<span class="ev_code_RED">The Corsair I could not be stored on the hangar decks of Royal Navy Aircraft Carriers. The wings when folded were too tall for the overhead of the hangar deck.</span>

In our game the following F4U Corsair Versions are represented:

Corsair I
F4U-1A & Corsair II
F4U-1C
F4U-1D & Corsair IV

Many servers do not allow skin downloads to reduce lag for the joining players and to try to keep the aircraft appearance as close to historical accuracy as possible. We are directed to use "default skins and markings" so the proper national insignia can be seen. Icons, ranges and Player ID's are disabled on many servers. In the Pacific Theater Theater the F4U-1 is rarely used on servers for the following reasons:
The default skin for the Corsair I is a three tone green paint scheme and when USN or USMC is selected for markings for the national insignia what you get is a blue roundel with and a white star which sticks out past blue background, exactly the way the Russian Insignia did when the VVS painted over the white stars with red on the P-39 Airacobra it received via lend lease.

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Luthier:</span>

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Is there a possibility that the F4U-1 can be added (same perfomance data as the Corsair I) with a correct default paint scheme of the USMC?</span>

These aircraft had two tone scheme blue and white (similar to the Default F4F-4 Wildcat skin in the game) with national insignia of dark blue roundels with white stars on the top and bottom of both wings and on both sides of the rear fuselage (like we have on the Default F4F-4 Wildcat markings in the game).

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">and possibly the USN?</span>

Three tone scheme (similar to the Default F4U-1A skin in the game) with national insignia like the USMC mentioned above (like we have on the Default F4F- Wildcat markings in the game).

Or can the Corsair I simply be renamed to the F4U-1 and a correct two tone blue and white skin be added. This may even correct the wrong national insignia by being listed as a US Aircraft instead of a NON-US aircraft, just a guess on my part.


Various versions of the F4U Corsair were built by the following manufacturers all in the US:

F4U Vought F4U-1 & Corsair I(Royal Navy), F4U-1A & Corsair II (Royal Navy Clipped Wings), F4U-1C, F4U-1D
F3A Brewster F3A-1 & Corsair I (Royal Navy), F3A-1A & Corsair II (Royal Navy Clipped Wings), F3A-1D & Corsair III (Royal Navy Clipped Wings)
FG Goodyear FG-1 & Corsair I(Royal Navy), FG-1A & Corsair II (Royal Navy Clipped Wings), FG-1D & Corsair IV (Royal Navy Clipped Wings)


The F4U-1 (Vought,Brewster & Goodyear) built aircraft made their combat debut in the Solomon Islands in February 1943 with VMF-124 operating F4U-1's from Fighter Strip 1 on Guadalcanal. The following USMC units were flying the F4U-1 in the Solomons Area by July 1943:

VMF-124,-213,-121,-112,-221,-112,-221,-122,-214,-123.

The F4U-1 had units at Guadalcanal VMF-124 Feb.'43, Gudalcanal VMF-213& VMF-221 Jul.'43, Munda VMF-124 & VMF-215 Aug.'43 & VMF-213 Sep.'43 & VMF-214 Oct.'43, Russell Islands VMF-124 Sep.'43, Barakoma/Torokina VMF-215 & Vella Lavella/Torokina VMF-214 Jan.'44, Green Island VMF-222 '44.

The USN had a unit from the USS Bunker Hill operating as a land based unit at Ondonga VF-17 "Jolly Rogers" Oct.'43.


And for what it is worth the F4U-1/Corsair I did not have water injection.


The F4U-1 "birdcage" was used extensively by the USMC & by one USN unit in the Gudalcanal & "Slot" area. This should be the representative of this aircraft not the Corsair I.


Thanks for any consideration you may give this.

Antoninus
10-25-2006, 04:08 AM
I fully support this idea, it would be wonderful if they would do this.

Just renaming the Corsair Mk. I is probably out of questions since this would create all kind of trouble with old missions, tracks etc. where it is referenced. But cloning it with another default skin to get a proper F4U-1 should hopefully be not to much work, even now. Many good skins are freely available and they could savely remove the bomb loadouts and waterinjection without screwing up older missions.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

_____________________________________
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3734/il2sig26hf.jpg

Actually everybody talks about aerial combat. I maintain that hitting ground targets, and especially ships is more dangerous than aerial combat. - Joe Foss

stansdds
10-25-2006, 04:22 AM
Inclusion of the F4U-1 would be great, and why Oleg put it in as the Corsair I is beyond my understanding. You are correct in that the Corsair I never saw combat, so why do we have it?

From what I have been able to gather, most F4U-1's were delivered in the two tone blue over light gray scheme, but Vought did switch to the three tone scheme on the last 110 or so. Most FG-1's would have rolled out in the three tone scheme as Goodyear's production line started turning out Corsairs about the same time as the Navy ordered the switch to the three tone scheme and I have seen photos of new FG-1's at the factory all painted in the three-tone scheme. The few Brewster F3A-1's were possibly two tone, there are a few photos of them in that scheme.

To keep things simple, should Oleg decide to include the F4U-1, I'd prefer to see it in the two tone scheme. Of course, if he gave us the F4U-1 then the logical map for its use would be the Solomon Islands, a map we don't have and are not likely to get. Perhaps this is why we don't have the F4U-1.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

When you know as much as I do, you become a danger only to yourself. -Stans, 2006

JG53Frankyboy
10-25-2006, 04:56 AM
i support the idea to give the Corsair Mk.I a proper US default skin and markings when a USA airbranch is selected.
a F4U-1 , without water injection, would be even better, but highly unlikely http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

anyway, you were already told thats it would be now in Luthiers hands
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/2181081964
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

MAILMAN------
10-25-2006, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
anyway, you were already told thats it would be now in Luthiers hands
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/2181081964
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

To be honest with you, I hadn't checked the thread in a long time so I was not aware that Crazy Ivan posted that Luthier would be the person to contact. Thanks for the link back to my long ago thread.

As you can see I edited the original subject Line to address the question to Luthier.

So how do I send this to Luthier? If any of you know how to get it to him be my guest. I equate this to shoulder shooting online. I don't care if a guy shoots over my shoulder as long as the bad guy is dead.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

-)-MAILMAN-

@={=MUSKETEERS=>

MAILMAN------
10-25-2006, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by stansdds:
To keep things simple, should Oleg decide to include the F4U-1, I'd prefer to see it in the two tone scheme. Of course, if he gave us the F4U-1 then the logical map for its use would be the Solomon Islands, a map we don't have and are not likely to get. Perhaps this is why we don't have the F4U-1.
You are right of course regarding some sort of "Slot" map being very unlikely, but On the "Zeke vs. Wildcat Server" an attempt was to adapt a part of the New Guinea map to represent Munda using Goodenough Island. The Corsair I was used , but looked rather dorky in the default green camouflage scheme and the light blue roundel and oversized white stars that protrude past the roundel. At least with a correct historical default skin and markings it would make it better. We do have Guadalcanal late which would let us make some abbreviated missions where JNAF could attack Henderson and Fighter One where F4U-1's operated.

stansdds
10-26-2006, 04:14 AM
Originally posted by MAILMAN------:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stansdds:
To keep things simple, should Oleg decide to include the F4U-1, I'd prefer to see it in the two tone scheme. Of course, if he gave us the F4U-1 then the logical map for its use would be the Solomon Islands, a map we don't have and are not likely to get. Perhaps this is why we don't have the F4U-1.
You are right of course regarding some sort of "Slot" map being very unlikely, but On the "Zeke vs. Wildcat Server" an attempt was to adapt a part of the New Guinea map to represent Munda using Goodenough Island. The Corsair I was used , but looked rather dorky in the default green camouflage scheme and the light blue and oversized white stars. At least with a correct historical default skin and markings it would make it better. We do have Guadalcanal late which would let us make some abbreviated missions where JNAF could attack Henderson and Fighter One where F4U-1's operated. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My squad has done the same thing. We can place custom skins on our F4U-1's, but the AI still wear the British paint and it does detract from the experience.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

When you know as much as I do, you become a danger only to yourself. -Stans, 2006

JG53Frankyboy
10-26-2006, 05:39 AM
what is the proplem than to put costum skins on the AI planes too ?

anyway, i not heard much complaining of all that eastern front marked LW planes on ETO and MTO missions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

MAILMAN------
10-26-2006, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
what is the proplem than to put costum skins on the AI planes too ?

By costum I assume you mean custom? That works for Cooperative and Single Missions created, but does not work for Dogfight Missions. In dogfight missions there are no AI planes only static planes for placement on the ground and the default skins are used.


anyway, i not heard much complaining of all that eastern front marked LW planes on ETO and MTO missions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

This thread is not about the Eastern front nor ETO nor MTO.

This thread is about the F4U-1 "Birdcage Canopy" Corsair and the PTO and the fact that it is represented by a version that (1) never saw combat
(2) was never flown in the Pacific Theater
(3) default skin that not only was not used by the USMC nor the USN, but was never used by the RN in the Pacific Theater
(4) markings are not USMC or USN (dark blue roundel with white star whose tips are even with the edges of the roundel), but rather VVS (red star)style marking is used where the star points extend past the wrong color blue roundel.

Antoninus
10-26-2006, 12:52 PM
I have disabled the incorrect and ugly default US roundel completly in FAP and use only national insignia painted on the skin for US aircraft since over a year now.

Oleg has siad in the simhq interview that they are repalcing many default skins in the sim. Maybe there is hope that they can at least add a default US skin for the Corsair Mk. 1 in 4.08. I've heard the default skins of some Luftwaffe planes should be replaced with the final patch, so mMaddox games is still implementing new skins into the game.

Maybe somebody can send the request per E-Mail to make sure they know about it.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

_____________________________________
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3734/il2sig26hf.jpg

Actually everybody talks about aerial combat. I maintain that hitting ground targets, and especially ships is more dangerous than aerial combat. - Joe Foss

JG53Frankyboy
10-26-2006, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by MAILMAN------:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
what is the proplem than to put costum skins on the AI planes too ?

By costum I assume you mean custom? That works for Cooperative and Single Missions created, but does not work for Dogfight Missions. In dogfight missions there are no AI planes only static planes for placement on the ground and the default skins are used.

.............. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

here i talked to stansdds , he mentioned AI planes - so i thought he is speaking about COOP missions.

MAILMAN------
10-26-2006, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by Antoninus:
I have disabled the incorrect and ugly default US roundel completly in FAP and use only national insignia painted on the skin for US aircraft since over a year now.

(1) How did you disable this roundel?
(2) What is FAP?
(3) What national insignia will show up when joined to a server that requires you to use the default skin for a particular aircraft (skin download disabled) and also requires you to use the correct national insignia for the scenario that is setup.


Originally posted by Antoninus:
Oleg has siad in the simhq interview that they are repalcing many default skins in the sim. Maybe there is hope that they can at least add a default US skin for the Corsair Mk. 1 in 4.08. I've heard the default skins of some Luftwaffe planes should be replaced with the final patch, so mMaddox games is still implementing new skins into the game.



Originally posted by Antoninus:
Maybe somebody can send the request per E-Mail to make sure they know about it.

I would be happy to send the email if I knew the address to send it. If someone has an email for a person that can possibly affect a change for this aircraft feel free to send my original post to whoever the person is that can possibly make it happen.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

-)-MAILMAN-

@={=MUSKETEERS=>

JG53Frankyboy
10-26-2006, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by MAILMAN------:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Antoninus:
I have disabled the incorrect and ugly default US roundel completly in FAP and use only national insignia painted on the skin for US aircraft since over a year now.

(1) How did you disable this roundel?
(2) What is FAP?
................ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FAP is this game:
Forgotten Battles
Ace Expansion pack
Pacific Fighters
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif or FAP http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

its just a smal solution for yourself, ever thought of using Aces IL2MAT ?
that replaces the ugly , shiney national markings on YOUR PC for all planes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

i for myself dont use it, but i saw it some weeks ago on a LAN party , they marking looks much much better !
anyway, dont know how a Corsair Mk.I would look like with US marking with this tool ?!?!?!

as i said, no general solution, but for your eyes it would help http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

IV_JG51_Razor
10-26-2006, 05:14 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif Such an easy thing to do, compared to some of the other requests you find on this board. Thanks for bringing it up in such a well written, well thought out post. Actually refreshing to read one of those in here. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Razor
Air Group 51
http://www.airgroup51.com/
F.I.S.C.
http://atlas.palomo.dyndns.org/fisc/forum/index.php
"Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgement"

MAILMAN------
10-26-2006, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MAILMAN------:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Antoninus:
I have disabled the incorrect and ugly default US roundel completly in FAP and use only national insignia painted on the skin for US aircraft since over a year now.

(1) How did you disable this roundel?
(2) What is FAP?
................ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FAP is this game:
Forgotten Battles
Ace Expansion pack
Pacific Fighters
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif or FAP http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

its just a smal solution for yourself, ever thought of using Aces IL2MAT ?
that replaces the ugly , shiney national markings on YOUR PC for all planes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

i for myself dont use it, but i saw it some weeks ago on a LAN party , they marking looks much much better !
anyway, dont know how a Corsair Mk.I would look like with US marking with this tool ?!?!?!

as i said, no general solution, but for your eyes it would help http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I use IL2 Mat Manager. At least on my computer it shows up with the stars inside the Blue roundel, but the color is still the wrong color blue and the default skin is still three tone green. The only way I can get it close to what it is supposed to be is with a really faded set in IL2 Mat Manager. Doesn't help a factory fresh aircraft skin and it doesn't change another online player's skin markings.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

-)-MAILMAN-

@={=MUSKETEERS=>

Antoninus
10-27-2006, 08:30 AM
It works in the same way as Il2 mat manager, so it's just for own my PC, nobody else will see it, or not see it online.

I've placed a whitestar1.mat file, that does not load the default US roundel, in the PaintSchemes\Cache folder and added the "ClearCache=0" line in the [game] section of the conf.ini, so that it is not deleted automatically when the game is terminated. From time to time I now empty the cache folder manually.

I wasn't satisfied with the mat manager US roundels and since the national markings painted directly on the default skins of most US planes look many times better than any overlay I decided to disable them completly and just use an apropriate skin. With the correct custom skin it now looks as good as any plane with default US skin and it can still have the default numbers in campaigns, single missions etc..


http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3483/grab0000ys1.th.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=grab0000ys1.jpg)<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

_____________________________________
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3734/il2sig26hf.jpg

Actually everybody talks about aerial combat. I maintain that hitting ground targets, and especially ships is more dangerous than aerial combat. - Joe Foss

MAILMAN------
10-27-2006, 02:01 PM
Using IL2 Mat Manager I got a pretty good looking dark blue national insignia if I opted to use the most faded version and the white tips of the star inside the roundel. Instead of being the bright blue it looked very dark. This looked good on a two-tone skin and also the three-tone skin used by VF-17. If you use a setting other then the faded2 markings you get the bright blue roudel.

Thanks for the cache information. I currently clear the cache when I close down the game, but I may reconsider not clearing it in the config.ini file.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

-)-MAILMAN-

@={=MUSKETEERS=>

MAILMAN------
10-27-2006, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by Antoninus:
I've placed a whitestar1.mat file, that does not load the default US roundel, in the PaintSchemes\Cache folder and added the "ClearCache=0" line in the [game] section of the conf.ini, so that it is not deleted automatically when the game is terminated. From time to time I now empty the cache folder manually.

So how did you create this whitestar1.mat file?

This file is already in my cache folder in Paint Schemes and when I tried to explore it Microsof Access opened, but it did not open the file for viewing.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

-)-MAILMAN-

@={=MUSKETEERS=>

MAILMAN------
10-28-2006, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by Antoninus:
Maybe somebody can send the request per E-Mail to make sure they know about it.

Well I figured out how to send a private message to Luthier with the original post to this thread. We will see if/how he responds.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

-)-MAILMAN-

@={=MUSKETEERS=>

TheGozr
10-28-2006, 02:01 AM
http://rrgstudios.com/EN_04_13_ContContacts.shtml<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.gozr.net/iocl/images/NN/NNserverlogo.jpg http://www.gozr.net/iocl/images/NN/Historiaserverlogo.jpg
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Antoninus
10-28-2006, 03:50 AM
Originally posted by MAILMAN------:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Antoninus:
I've placed a whitestar1.mat file, that does not load the default US roundel, in the PaintSchemes\Cache folder and added the "ClearCache=0" line in the [game] section of the conf.ini, so that it is not deleted automatically when the game is terminated. From time to time I now empty the cache folder manually.

So how did you create this whitestar1.mat file?

This file is already in my cache folder in Paint Schemes and when I tried to explore it Microsof Access opened, but it did not open the file for viewing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You can open the .mat files with notepad. That's the code of the whitestar1.mat I use:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

MAILMAN------
10-28-2006, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by TheGozr:
http://rrgstudios.com/EN_04_13_ContContacts.shtml

Thanks. Made a copy of the original post and sent it via email to Luthier, hope he reads and considers it.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

-)-MAILMAN-

@={=MUSKETEERS=>

IV_JG51_Razor
11-01-2006, 07:52 AM
I hope so too. This is one of those, "what the heck were they thinking?!!" things that came with PF. Sort of like the Guadalcanal map, or no catapults for the carriers, or, or, or, or http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Razor
Air Group 51
http://www.airgroup51.com/
F.I.S.C.
http://atlas.palomo.dyndns.org/fisc/forum/index.php
"Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgement"

heywooood
11-02-2006, 05:44 PM
I'm for this change please....but against the P-80

We needs to be able to park early 'Sairs on some of those island bases in proper US paint.

But the Yp-80 is good enough to leave alone.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/afewofTheFew-1.jpg

A few of The Few

MAILMAN------
11-05-2006, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by heywooood:
I'm for this change please....but against the P-80

We needs to be able to park early 'Sairs on some of those island bases in proper US paint.

But the Yp-80 is good enough to leave alone.

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW"> YP-80</span> where the hell did that come from? The thread is about the <span class="ev_code_RED">F4U-1</span> vice the <span class="ev_code_GREEN">Corsair I</span> . <div class="ev_tpc_signature">

-)-MAILMAN-

@={=MUSKETEERS=>

IV_JG51_Razor
11-05-2006, 09:18 PM
LOL! I pondered that myself. Then I noticed another thread wherein they were talking about wanting to bring the P-80 into the game with the speed brakes and tip tanks. A very good idea IMHO. Can't understand why anyone would be against that idea!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Razor
Air Group 51
http://www.airgroup51.com/
F.I.S.C.
http://atlas.palomo.dyndns.org/fisc/forum/index.php
"Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgement"

VW-IceFire
11-05-2006, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by IV_JG51_Razor:
LOL! I pondered that myself. Then I noticed another thread wherein they were talking about wanting to bring the P-80 into the game with the speed brakes and tip tanks. A very good idea IMHO. Can't understand why anyone would be against that idea!
Some folks love to complain or are narrowly focused.

I'm in favour of adding anything practical (and some impractical ones too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif).<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/icefire-tempestv.jpg
Find my missions at Flying Legends (http://www.flying-legends.net/php/downloads/downloads.php?cat_id=19) and Mission4Today.com (http://www.mission4today.com).

MAILMAN------
11-08-2006, 10:41 PM
<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">SO LET HIM START HIS OWN THREAD ON THE YP-80. THIS IS ABOUT HAVING THE F4U-1 REPRESENTING THE VERSION INSTEAD OF THE CORSAIR I.</span><div class="ev_tpc_signature">

-)-MAILMAN-

@={=MUSKETEERS=>

heywooood
11-09-2006, 05:26 PM
don't go postal, MAILMAN - I agree with you on the birdcage Corsair...sorry you didn't get my tongue in cheek reference to the P-80 and that 'other' thread.

let this serve as a bump and be done with it..<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/afewofTheFew-1.jpg

A few of The Few

heywooood
11-14-2006, 07:26 PM
lol how many of these threads are there, MAILMAN?


"always rings twice"... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/afewofTheFew-1.jpg

A few of The Few