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Jex_TG
03-14-2005, 06:37 AM
Is it just me, or do I get the impression that not many people fly Coop missions together against the AI?

I say this because me and my friends pretty much fly exclusively together, flying missions against the AI (about 10 of us). But what I find is that game developers are still lacking when it comes to MP.

PF has a dedicated server, for dogfight only, but nothing for Coop. Yeah great, thanks guys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I find this to be a major problem with most games. Devs seem to think that everyone wants to do mindless Death Matches all the time, or capture the flag; but when are they going to learn that there are some of us out here who relish the thought of playing the missions out with human team-mates, rather than AI ones.

It is immensley frustrating too to be able to fly a campaign mission cooperatively, but have to fly for 45 minutes do nothing to get to the action, and then fly 45 minutes back home. We cannot advance the time, and an hour to an hour and a half doing nothing is not acceptable when you only have a few hours a night gaming time (sometimes less). It may be realistic, but this is a game. There is no fun in such long flights.

So we are then left with finding missions created by the community. These seem to be few and far between, and when we do actually find a coop campaign, it only has 4 slots (aarrgghh lol - it's enough to make you pull your hair out, I swear).

Perhaps in future game devs could make some room for us co-op'ers. There may not be that many of us, but we really would appreciate the effort.

Thx.

J.

Jex_TG
03-14-2005, 06:37 AM
Is it just me, or do I get the impression that not many people fly Coop missions together against the AI?

I say this because me and my friends pretty much fly exclusively together, flying missions against the AI (about 10 of us). But what I find is that game developers are still lacking when it comes to MP.

PF has a dedicated server, for dogfight only, but nothing for Coop. Yeah great, thanks guys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I find this to be a major problem with most games. Devs seem to think that everyone wants to do mindless Death Matches all the time, or capture the flag; but when are they going to learn that there are some of us out here who relish the thought of playing the missions out with human team-mates, rather than AI ones.

It is immensley frustrating too to be able to fly a campaign mission cooperatively, but have to fly for 45 minutes do nothing to get to the action, and then fly 45 minutes back home. We cannot advance the time, and an hour to an hour and a half doing nothing is not acceptable when you only have a few hours a night gaming time (sometimes less). It may be realistic, but this is a game. There is no fun in such long flights.

So we are then left with finding missions created by the community. These seem to be few and far between, and when we do actually find a coop campaign, it only has 4 slots (aarrgghh lol - it's enough to make you pull your hair out, I swear).

Perhaps in future game devs could make some room for us co-op'ers. There may not be that many of us, but we really would appreciate the effort.

Thx.

J.

JunkoIfurita
03-14-2005, 08:09 AM
I know I'm beginning to sound like a broken record, but...

You should really get a-hold of Lowengrin's DCG (http://www.lowengrin.com). Most of my IL2 experience thus far has being flying co-op with my 3 squadmates against the AI, and for this Lowengrin's DCG works a treat. First of all, for the Eastern front Grand Campaign (Russian/German, Starting in Lvov), you get a multi-front campaign that is fully dynamic, and works much like the Single Player campaign (except that it's much more interesting, IMHO).

There is also a series of linked 'mini grand' campaigns for the Pacific maps. Eventually, there'll be one PTO grand campaign.

Next great feature for Co-op within time restrictions is the 'action radius'. The shorter you set it, the shorter your targets for the various missions will be. On land, this means that if you select 75km for the action radius, all missions will occur within that space (unless there are no targets for attack or defense, in which case you'll pick the closest outside the radius. Bad if you end up attacking the same area every mission...if you do, increase the action radius). On the sea - on carrier based campaigns - the action radius actually determines the distance between the opposing carrier groups. So if you set it to 35km, then you'll have your carriers 35km apart, for shorter missions and shorter campaigns.

Careful though...convoys will shoot at each other when they are in range. Below 50km, I think, and you'll start having ships sinking ships, which may cut things short! Fun to watch, though!

The way DCG does all this is that it replaces the stock NGen.exe with an executable much more similar to DGen.exe (or in this case, to Lowengrin's truly dynamic DGen.exe, which can be substituted too if you like the way it plays).

The major downside of DCG is that it's created by a developer, not a writer, so it can seem a bit opaque as it has next to no documentation. I've posted a basic setup for DCG in several places already on the UBI forum, if you can't find it let me know and I'll send you a quick setup guide via email.

Never fear, I'm working on a full manual for DCG. This way more people can use this great tool and extension for the sim, and hopefully Paul can spend more time flying and developing (at the moment he spends a lot of time answering questions on the forums: he's great that way, but he ends up answering the same questions too much).

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scott_68
03-14-2005, 08:14 AM
To make it short, we fly a lot of coops agains humans as a squad using the teamspeak communications. If you are interested just drop a note www.9thawacs.com (http://www.9thawacs.com) . Usually we fly Thursdays or Fridays with other teams.But we also run our own campaign- but must say flying with / against AI has often AI`s that crash into you when you want to land on a carrier :-( .

Zeus-cat
03-14-2005, 10:26 AM
As JunkoIfurita stated you can use Lowengrin's DCG. Another option is for someone in your group to buy BOE. BOE has online coops for the Normandy and Ardennes maps. The Ardennes maps gets you into action very fast as the map is so small (60km x 60km). You will be flying late war US or German aircraft with BOE. Check out BOE at Justflight.com

Zeus-cat

tedinaz
03-14-2005, 05:28 PM
VF-2 flies co-ops and online campaigns exclusively. Dogfight just don't cut it for us.

Swing by if you're interested...


http://groups.msn.com/VF2FightingTwo/homeporttest.msnw

GT182
03-14-2005, 08:32 PM
Our JG 53 group flies Coops against Russian AI in Lowengrin's DCG set up for Crimea 42. It's better than building missons but you have to watch out for those pesky Russian AI. They will mostly be Vets and Aces. So to make it more playable for us average fellers in our G2s, we edit them down a tad. Sure beats DFs imo. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

JunkoIfurita
03-14-2005, 09:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>As JunkoIfurita stated you can use Lowengrin's DCG. Another option is for someone in your group to buy BOE. BOE has online coops for the Normandy and Ardennes maps. The Ardennes maps gets you into action very fast as the map is so small (60km x 60km). You will be flying late war US or German aircraft with BOE. Check out BOE at Justflight.com <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I paid $80 Australian for BoE, and was pretty amazed when the whole install was something like 50 Megabytes. The co-ops in Ardennes would have been nice, but I was already DCG-ing then, so they weren't anything new! By all means get BoE if you can pick it up cheaply, but don't pay full retail or you'll end up disappointed.

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Skyfoxx1
03-15-2005, 08:05 AM
Our squad 880 Sqn Fleet Air Arm flies coop missions against ai most every week. Most of the missions are squad designed. We plan on branching out to some all human coops in the very near future.
Drop us a line if you are interested.

&lt;S&gt;

Jex_TG
03-15-2005, 10:07 AM
How do you think the CPU would handle 16-20 human players plus 32-40 AI for one massive airbattle? (so 2-1 odds).

Or we could assign a wing for ground attack and one for CAP and taylor a mission but I've always wanted to be in a massive air battle where there's just one big fuball going on around you lol

It might be an idea to get together and give it a go. Team Element has at least 8 of us with the game (Stand alone version)

tttiger
03-15-2005, 10:26 AM
Some of fly us Coops exclusively. There is a very active group of Coop pilots in HyperLobby. But they fly a mixture of Humans and AI pilots on both sides.

I have to admit I've never heard of flying in a Coop in which the opposing side is all AI. That seems to defeat the whole purpose of a Coop, a mission designed for human players with AIs only used to fill the empty slots.

If it's humans on one side and robots on the other, that's not a Coop. On a squad basis, it probably would be good training for a real coop, just to work on tactics and coordination.

Tha value of having humans on both sides is that it makes the mission much more interesting and harder to predict.

But it sounds to me like you're flying only half a real Coop without humans on both sides. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ttt

Stiglr
03-15-2005, 10:58 AM
Oleg pretty much gutted the co-op, for some stupid reason.

With IL-2, each player participating in a co-op would get a copy of the files in his cache folders, and the co-ops players liked could be "rescued" from that folder and used again, with that player being the host. Coops could also be modified in the Mission Builder.

Thus, co-ops had a very robust life on HyperLobby.

But now that that feature has been scrapped, co-ops can only be designed from scratch by players who know how (or have the time to put in), or by scripted missiond designers, and so thier popularity (and frequency, I might add) has dropped off a LOT.

This "saved co-ops" feature should be reinstated IMMEDIATELY.

tttiger
03-15-2005, 11:58 AM
I hate it when I agree with Stig...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Yes, that may have been the dumbest thing St. Oleg ever did. Used to be, if I flew I coop I really liked, I would go dig it out of my cache and use it when I hosted.

For reasons never explained, Oleg changed the code so he coops couldn't be recovered any more. It isn't as though they were copyrighted (like the Grumman name Oleg just sort of borrowed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ).

But I disagree about the popularity of Coops. They did decline for awhile but they are very much alive and well these days.

Of course, if you spend all your time in Target Rabaul, you wouldn't know that, Stig http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S!

ttt

Billy_BigBoy
03-15-2005, 03:10 PM
Every now and than I take my notebook to a friend, we hook up the two computers and, after some 1 versus 1 dogfights to get the feeling, we do co-op's.
I have rebuild a couple of single missions into co-op's which won't take to long to run.
Just 5 minutes maximum ingress and than the into the heat. (egress is often not a part of the deal http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )
So, yes I do play co-op's and they are fun to us anyway.

rummyrum
03-15-2005, 10:22 PM
Online wars killed the casual coops not Oleg. If you consider the popularity of the wars and consider them to be strung together Coops then they outnumber DFs by a large margin.

Many squads do coops against ai and its much more difficult than folks think since you are faced with objectives. If any thing dogfight servers with humans on both sides still end up being mindless. Real men and women play coops...and yes I am being a snob http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

Gunny124
03-16-2005, 06:44 AM
Co-ops are about the only thing my unit will fly. We're not into the mindless dogfight stuff except when warming up before our co-op missions. We use the DCG and it's worked well for us. The one problem I've noticed is that the plane set is a little, I don't know, off. Flying out of Guadalcanal in early '43 the unit should see a lot of Kates and Vals, and to date, I don't remember seeing any.

Last Saturday we flew a few missions out of Henderson with 16 human pilots. It's a helluva a sight for squadron C.O. to look back and see that many -1 Corsairs behind him.

GT182
03-16-2005, 09:35 AM
Not everyone can get a group of 8 or more Coop players together all at the time so they can fly human vs human. Some don't have a computer or internet connection to even handle mass flights. And some of us just prefer flying against AI only.

And then there's the "not so honest" players effect. That's part of the reason small groups fly together.

What ever trips your trigger is the way to go. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

AH_Marius
03-16-2005, 01:39 PM
I am a member of the _Aces High_ Squadron. Our Roster has about 30 members. We have been flying IL2 for about the last year. Most nights we fly coops, with a few dogfights thrown in for a change of pace. Being a virtual carrier bases wing, we are very dissappointed at the limitations of the Pacific Campaigns, and the lack of Maps for the Solomon islands. This was a site for some major fighting in WW II.
One of our members has posted a campaign he created for our pleasure. We are very proud of his efforts in building the VMF-223rd stay at Catus airfield on Guadalcanal. Being a former Marine, he felt called upon to make this effort.

NorrisMcWhirter
03-16-2005, 02:22 PM
Hi,

I fly co-ops almost exclusively and I agree with the support of Lowengrin's DCG for creating online campaigns of good quality with little effort.

Also, I'd say a big thanks to those who spend the time and effort making these missions when, some of the time, they just get earache from players about minor issues with them.

Cheers,
Norris

crazyivan1970
03-16-2005, 03:10 PM
COOPs is the only way for me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Bearcat99
03-16-2005, 04:06 PM
The 99th flies coops all the time. We are primarily a coop squad although some of us like to venture out into the better DF servers. We use different settings from open pit with icons and padlock to closed pit, icons & PL or open pit no icons and pl. We have varying degrees of familiarity with the sim and although some of us can handle the more immersive settings, and do, we like to relax and also have fun as a group. So we lighten up a bit.

Jex_TG
03-23-2005, 10:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tttiger:
Some of fly us Coops exclusively. There is a very active group of Coop pilots in HyperLobby. But they fly a mixture of Humans and AI pilots on both sides.

I have to admit I've never heard of flying in a Coop in which the opposing side is all AI. That seems to defeat the whole purpose of a Coop, a mission designed for human players with AIs only used to fill the empty slots.

If it's humans on one side and robots on the other, that's not a Coop. On a squad basis, it probably would be good training for a real coop, just to work on tactics and coordination.

Tha value of having humans on both sides is that it makes the mission much more interesting and harder to predict.

But it sounds to me like you're flying only half a real Coop without humans on both sides. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ttt <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We want to fly as a team, together, cooperatively. We don't want human opponents on the other side because there are never enough, and it would mean finding another team, something that is just too much hassle.

What you're talking about is TvT (Team v Team - well in my book anyway lol). To me coop has always been humans v AI, and we'd like that option available to us.

Jex_TG
03-24-2005, 08:09 AM
To add to this, there's also the immersion factor. Playing online DF offers little immersion. Everyone's doing there own thing and there's no coordination.

What the AI lack in skill, they make up for in realism - in a way.

When flying out it's more immersive to have realistic patrol patterns, and realistic cap areas for the enemy. The same holds for first person shooters. The enemy doesn't know you are comming, and the AI reflect this - whereas in DF, everyone knows where the enemy are (bases) and it doesn't seem to hold that "don't know we're coming" quality .

geetarman
03-24-2005, 09:09 AM
I'd love to fly more coops. Frankly though, I am such a novice at it, I don't know how.

The only coops I see are on the HL main lobby, and there's only about two or three. Where would I find others?

I tried creating a coop mission in the FMB, but failed miserably. The mission never turns up in selectable missions when I click on "multiplayer" on the main table in FB or PF. Even if it did, I would not know how to get in onto HL.

Any suggestions?

Jex_TG
03-24-2005, 09:24 AM
You don't need HL. In fact, I'd say steer slear of HL for coop and instead find an online community. Most communities these days offer free use of a teamspeak server (very worthwhile), and free membership (with the option to donate each month to support the community if you want, but not necessary).

Once you have joined, say hi in the forums, find out when people play, and then join up with them. You'll probably need teamspeak as well.

It can be a little bit strange hooking up online with people, and using a voice prog to actually speak to them. But they're usually decent people out to enjoy themselves and 10 minutes into a game, you won't even realise you playing using voice comms.

Now the community guys will probably host there own missions, or one from the net. Just join the IP, select a plane, go through the briefing, decide upon a plan and get airborne http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

geetarman
03-24-2005, 11:19 AM
Thanks - sounds good. Can you clarify a bit. "Online Community?" Do you mean sqaud websites?

Tooz_69GIAP
03-24-2005, 11:32 AM
Online wars are great for coops, and structured ongoing campaigns.

Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com) is a cool war using Lowengrin's DCG to generate both coop and dogfight missions. Right now, the VVS just trounced the Germans at Prohkorovka, and are about to roll on to Smolensk, battering back the sausage eating hordes!!

And there's plenty others which have good pilots.

RichardI
03-24-2005, 01:06 PM
Nope.

AH_Moggy
03-24-2005, 01:51 PM
S! Geetarman:

If you're interested in flying coops, try to find us on HL, virtually any night. We at AH fly mostly coops & historic campaigns. We're also an easy-going bunch, and have pilots of all skill levels.

You might also want to check out:
http://663blacktigers.net/vbop/

663_CarbHeat has created the VBOP as a fairly exclusive association of squadrons (there are four member squadrons presently: RAF 662nd, the 336th, #663 Squadron, and Aces High), specifically for flying coops. We meet on Wednesdays and Saturdays, and the coops we fly are immense fun.

We fly various settings, and have quite a library of coop missions -- both E.T.O. and P.T.O. Note: You'd have to actually be a *member* of one of these squadrons in order to participate (and that's another story, I suppose), but I thought I'd mention it just in case you'd be interested in either.

Vipez-
03-25-2005, 09:53 AM
I play coops regularly..

Hmm, downside is its sometimes hard to find suitable coop for your preferred conditions..

I suggest you try flying online wars, they are like coops, but against human opponents.. which makes much more sence, that flying against Artificial Imbesils http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Check the coming VEF-3 (two weeks :P ) (http://www.vef3.net), Virtual Fronts (http://www.virtual-front.no), and Vow-2 (http://www.vow-hq.com) .. Currently all of them are in devoplement stages, but i figure it shouldnt take that long for them to kick off..

Good luck. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AFSG_Jedi
03-25-2005, 12:00 PM
Hi... if your looking for some coop missions to fly stop by URL=http://www.theafsg.com/]The AFSG[/URL]we have over 300 missions to download. We fly coops nightly from roughly 8-10 P.S.T. Every once in a while we jump on hyperloby & fly coops there. I've been addicted to flying & building coops for about a year now with the AFSG. Can't wait for the next upgrade to come out so I can expand in mission builder & bring our mission total to 400. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Don't think I got that URL inserted right. O'well...