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AllorNothing117
03-29-2009, 02:54 PM
The AI sucks period. As i can see...

-AI wingmen (P-38 quickmission) when told to cover you will often dive down about 750m and then zoom climb back up occasionaly raming you ending that mission rather quickly or come incredable clsoe to ramming you.
-AI enemies can climb for a ridiculessly long time from a ridiculessly low speed.
-AI enemies always choose to attack you over other Ai, pressumably becasue your not part of their gang or something.
-AI cannot shoot at all. They have no concept of deflection shooting. Although they are incredably good at head on shooting, or shooting just as you fly directly across them, if that makes sense.


Sorry I had to get that out my system. Along with this.

Please let me play online dad! I'm sick of the stupid AI http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif It's just not fun anymore.

alphalvr
03-29-2009, 03:10 PM
well i disagree a tiny bit with my limited knowledge.

qmb, me as 1 flight (la5) im set as average
1 ai on my side in another flight (la5) average

2000m alt no advantage

vs

1 flight of 3 x 109-g2`s veterans

the 109`s almost always go for the other la5 1st, they may take some head on `target of opportuninty` shots on me during headon pass but then they generally follow him

then ill drop in behind behind the 3 on his tail and generally 1 will break off and get on my taill while im fixated on the other 2.

ps i cant remember the other la5 ev er surviving the ordeal http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blush.gif

my 2p

but yeah online must be another world...im still building to it, once i can queeze more out my rides and `land` with more than luck ill be online http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Bearcat99
03-29-2009, 03:25 PM
The stock AI has issues.

That is a fact... but still as far as AI go... the AI in this sim is pretty much the best out.. with the exception perhaps of WoV... It has moments of brilliance though... but overall that has always been a weakpoint of the sim.

Folks here have become spoiled in that we expect the AI to be as good as the rest of the sim.. and it just isn't more often than not.... but it is still heads and shoulders better than other AI I hace seen. The enemy AI see through clouds... (It seems the friendly do not..) although even before I had that AI mod I was able to loose AI in a cloudbank occasionally... and sometimes my AI wingman would actually cover me when asked.. instead of flying alongside the bandit that is shooting me... or going off to attack the bandits a click or two away rather than the one I am watching trying to angle on my 6.

stalkervision
03-29-2009, 03:28 PM
sometimes the il-2 ai will do wonderful things. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Most times not. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

slipBall
03-29-2009, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by AllorNothing117:
The AI sucks period. As i can see...


Sorry I had to get that out my system. Along with this.

Please let me play online dad! I'm sick of the stupid AI http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif It's just not fun anymore.



on-line you will see some dumb thing's too! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

norton1974
03-29-2009, 03:39 PM
When flying offline i notice the ai limits, but when flying online i find what my limits are.
Try downloading some campaigns, it gives new life to the offline play.

danjama
03-29-2009, 03:46 PM
I agree 100% with what Bearcat has said.

Now though i have installed the AI mod and it has fixed some issues, to the point that i'm happy enough to have started a few campaigns offline the last few days.

I take it that isnt an option for you though, so just be happy that sometimes the AI will surprise you, thats a fact!

OneMug
03-29-2009, 04:18 PM
Question. Danjama, or anyone, does the AI mod reduce the incredible accuracy of the bomber gunners?

Not that I can't fly slashing attacks but...they seem better than enemy dog fighters...just curious. OneMug

Bearcat99
03-29-2009, 04:29 PM
I haven't been doing much bomber work.. I don't know.. but it does make the A2A fight more interesting.. to an extent.. they still climb out of reach...

triad773
03-29-2009, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by OneMug:
Question. Danjama, or anyone, does the AI mod reduce the incredible accuracy of the bomber gunners?

Not that I can't fly slashing attacks but...they seem better than enemy dog fighters...just curious. OneMug

Well OneMug, for one who has taken a keen interest in the AiMOD I can tell you I can survive longer than before- the regularly uber AA artillery, and the bomber gunners are not as good, I don't think-- but they can still get you PK'd if you are careless http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

toogame
03-29-2009, 06:49 PM
Thier is a AI mod which actually works well and re-corrects the AI behaviour from wingmen to enemy, its very very well done and also includes AI turning on nav lights in the night for landing and takeoff only.

ElAurens
03-29-2009, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by slipBall:

on-line you will see some dumb thing's too!

Be sure!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

alphalvr
03-29-2009, 08:00 PM
oh http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

i thought the ai climbing out of reach was the fact i fly against bf109`s which i figured were doing that because that was there planes advantage,(ie combat climb is the term i think) whereas my la5 or cane being better in turns.

so i figured it was just obvious that the nazis would maximise there rides abilitys

didnt realise all ai aircraft (fighters) had this ability

Ritter_Cuda
03-29-2009, 08:27 PM
all AI'S are just killing time before their court marshal.

Ba5tard5word
03-29-2009, 09:27 PM
-AI wingmen (P-38 quickmission) when told to cover you will often dive down about 750m and then zoom climb back up occasionaly raming you ending that mission rather quickly or come incredable clsoe to ramming you.

Sorry but I laughed, the AI can do dumb things but I've never seen them do that. The P-38 AI is probably among the most useless in the game though.

Yeah the ally AI is dumb while the enemy AI can be frustratingly good. I hate how my wingmen usually never really cover me, or how I'll order them to follow and cover me and they'll just keep flying around in circles 1000m above me while 3 enemies are on my tail.

Then sometimes they'll be experts and shoot down all the enemies without any effort and steal all your kills...argh.

jamesblonde1979
03-30-2009, 01:25 AM
Never, EVER, go head to head with the stock AI.

It's suicide, plain and simple.

Just make a 5-10 degree deviation, nose down, and as he is just about to pass you pull up and onto his tail.

AI response to this kind of merge is usually pretty pathetic and you'll get a quick kill if you time it right.

You'll need to have eyes on him all the time too throughout this manoeuver.

AI wingmen respond automatically go into cover mode when an enemy is sighted. Use the rejoin formation command if they stray too much.

I have found that if you are within 4-500m of your AI wingamn and make use of the attack my target and cover me commands you can form a pretty effective 'tag-team' with your wingman. The trick is not to lose your wingamn, keeping track of him takes up some of your situational awareness but if you are going offensive it is certainly worth it.

micksaf
03-30-2009, 01:31 AM
latest version of AI mod by certificate is available, version 3.0, still improving ... and so much better than the stock one ...

AllorNothing117
03-30-2009, 07:55 AM
Ooooooh! a mod. Another argument with dad ensues me thinks. I'll post a track the P-38 friendly ramming attack thing if some tells me how! Or put it on youtube and give you a link or something, again f someone tells me how! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I've tried a few campaigns but can never keep up with the friendly AI flying to waypoints and flying as leader was a tad intimidating. I guess that's the only option though, that or get everywhere 2-3mins later than everyone else...

megalopsuche
03-30-2009, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
although even before I had that AI mod

Ok, I can't ask you for a link. I guess I'll do a search.

micksaf
03-30-2009, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by AllorNothing117:
that or get everywhere 2-3mins later than everyone else...

...just use "autopilot" after takeoff to catch up your mates, then while you fly level with them no problem to get anywhere just in time ...

I can assure you that this AI mod by certificate TOTALLY changes the sim ...

megalopsuche
03-30-2009, 09:19 AM
I searched and couldn't find what you're talking about. Little hint?

Edit: I found a threat in the AAA forums with AI mods by certificate, but the latest version is .17, not 3.0.

megalopsuche
03-30-2009, 09:44 AM
Ok, finally found 3.0. Thank you.

-----------

Edit: This mod is nothing special. Offline play will not be miraculously better because of it. In fact, the author's efforts to defang some of the more ridiculous AI traits might have made it even easier to shoot down than before (even Ace AI): you no longer have to worry about magician-like below the nose front-quarter snap shots from the AI pilots. They still accelerate while doing evasives, and can still do rocket-assisted spiral climbs away from human controlled aircraft that should have a clear advantage in climbrate. Nor does the mod cause the AI pilots to get as much turn out of their aircraft as they ought to be able to; their maximum AoA is limited. Lastly, the AI aggression is still very weak. I can setup quick combat where it's 2 P-51 aces vs myself in a 109, and after the merge they simply straight run it out to the horizon. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Meh... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

CrazyOWl
03-30-2009, 12:06 PM
Where I can found the link to download the AI MOD.
can Anyone point to the direction.

Tnhkz

buddye1
03-30-2009, 12:55 PM
I agree that the IL2 AI is basicly good but of course it does have problem. All Fight Sim game's AI have problems, IMHO.

To get a really good AI system requires:

1. A community willing and able to debate and write effective AI requirements that can be understood and implemented.

2. Manpower and code access with a outstanding community willing and able to provide feedback and testing for AI changes and AI requirements.

It is not going to happen any time soon, IMHO. After 5 years of working on BOBII AI (I am woking on MP now), using the above approach, BOBII still has AI problems that are not easy to define,isolate, and fix. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

A for profit developer just can not afford the above approach. Even with free manpower for coding and testing and code access, it is a very tough problem and perfect AI is out of the question.

The developing of realistic Flight Sim AI can “not” really be coded to a spec (like graphics, landscape, textures, hardware interfaces, multi player, canned missions, etc.) where the cost can be accurately estimated and bounded. Developing AI is a process (develop, test, refine, test, refine, etc). You are trying to simulate a human whose options and thinking are almost endless.

AI Robots can be built today if their functions are limited (repeatable task like the auto robots) but the building of human robots would require the refinement and testing process with endless delays and the cost gets too high or out of control. It is about impossible to "bound" human thinking (say a good pilot, as individuals solve problems and invent solutions in an almost infinite manner).

Combat Flight Sim AI have the same problem. The development cost to make the AI more human and thinking is just too high. The game developers are force to get the AI working and call a stop to the refinement process. They can not continue the process too long because of cost.

In BOBII, we work for free. We get endless ideas from our players and testers which we can use for the BOBII AI refinement process.. The implementation and testing is still very difficult requiring much refinement and some really good testers who can offer refinements. We have been refining the AI in BOBII using this refinement process for 5 years. We could go on forever with the only limit being “new” ideas and experienced manpower.

The answer is in Flight Sim game industry, the developer can not afford the money for an effective and complete human like AI system (a commercial game developer really can not afford a BOBII like refinement process). Only the military or NASA can afford to develop smart, effective, thinking and human like AI and even they have had limited success, as yet..

danjama
03-30-2009, 04:46 PM
The AI in WoV is excellent if i'm being honest buddye http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

DKoor
03-30-2009, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by danjama:
The AI in WoV is excellent if i'm being honest buddye http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Are you sure it's good?

We are being told by some people here that we need super duper PC's in order to have good AI.

triad773
03-30-2009, 08:14 PM
Consider people like Noam Chomsky have been working for the Gov't on Ai for the DoD (or other Gov't entity); the work at MiT where he's at is based on linguistics as I understand it.

I don't think that is any secret, yet interesting http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

stalkervision
03-30-2009, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
The AI in WoV is excellent if i'm being honest buddye http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Are you sure it's good?

We are being told by some people here that we need super duper PC's in order to have good AI. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes it is very good right now and thanks to buddye and his volunteer testors it keeps getting better and better. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Lots of input and testing makes the difference.

as buddye said to make it a whole better then this would take a huge amount of resources though. I believe this is probably true.

What I am waiting around for is buddye's idea of a ai learning program that notes ones usual moves and counters them with a ai that learns from these moves. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

DKoor
04-01-2009, 12:49 AM
Good to hear thathttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

GH_Klingstroem
04-01-2009, 02:52 AM
Originally posted by OneMug:
Question. Danjama, or anyone, does the AI mod reduce the incredible accuracy of the bomber gunners?

Not that I can't fly slashing attacks but...they seem better than enemy dog fighters...just curious. OneMug

Yes the AI mod does indeed reduce the sniper ability of the bombers!!

danjama
04-01-2009, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
The AI in WoV is excellent if i'm being honest buddye http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Are you sure it's good?

We are being told by some people here that we need super duper PC's in order to have good AI. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes it is very good right now and thanks to buddye and his volunteer testors it keeps getting better and better. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Lots of input and testing makes the difference.

as buddye said to make it a whole better then this would take a huge amount of resources though. I believe this is probably true.

What I am waiting around for is buddye's idea of a ai learning program that notes ones usual moves and counters them with a ai that learns from these moves. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes honestly it is brilliant AI.

Dynamic/Learning AI would be way cool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

But then maybe they would get too good http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

The bf109's in WoV already own me most times i engage them http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Hope that answers your question.

DKoor
04-01-2009, 03:27 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

stalkervision
04-01-2009, 04:29 PM
BOB/WOV terminator single mission ai is very very good. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif The only trouble is it cheats! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WTE_Galway
04-01-2009, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by OneMug:
Question. Danjama, or anyone, does the AI mod reduce the incredible accuracy of the bomber gunners?

Not that I can't fly slashing attacks but...they seem better than enemy dog fighters...just curious. OneMug

You don't need a mod to change that.

DKoor
04-02-2009, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by CrazyOWl:
Where I can found the link to download the AI MOD.
can Anyone point to the direction.

Tnhkz It is worth to use modified version of the game solely for the improved Ai.
I checked it out it really is an improvement.

You can get it on All Aircraft Arcade site, just search a bit there.

K_Freddie
04-02-2009, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by danjama:
The bf109's in WoV already own me most times i engage them http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Next question.. how good is the FM and damage model...
If it's as good as IL2 then no problems, otherwise it's just the same situation as Il2's AI, and I rather have a good FM. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

buddye1
04-03-2009, 08:30 AM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
The bf109's in WoV already own me most times i engage them http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Next question.. how good is the FM and damage model...
If it's as good as IL2 then no problems, otherwise it's just the same situation as Il2's AI, and I rather have a good FM. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point. FM is another task that take a refine and feedback process and everyone has a different opinion (supported with data and experince).

In BOBII we have a professional FM engineer who is very experineced in FM who has been tweaking the BOBII FM for years with refinements and improvements that are tested and used by our community.

The FM process (again) is a necessary process to a improvement cycle, IMHO.

Bremspropeller
04-03-2009, 09:15 AM
Just to make sure:

WoV isn't possibly "Wings over Vietnam"? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

danjama
04-03-2009, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
Just to make sure:

WoV isn't possibly "Wings over Vietnam"? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Buddeye, is BOB2 online capable yet? Havnt been to their forums for a long time.

stalkervision
04-03-2009, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by danjama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
Just to make sure:

WoV isn't possibly "Wings over Vietnam"? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Buddeye, is BOB2 online capable yet? Havnt been to their forums for a long time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's being tested right now. Sign up and give it a try. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

buddye1
04-03-2009, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by danjama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
Just to make sure:

WoV isn't possibly "Wings over Vietnam"? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Buddeye, is BOB2 online capable yet? Havnt been to their forums for a long time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

WOV is "Wings of Victory" so the name is Battle of Britain II Wings of Victory.

We are working on MP now but we have a long ways to go and we are short of volunteer skill and manpower as always. We need a good MP skill that can code C++. All the games have show stopper problems that must be fixed before we can release to the community.

BOBII MP has 3 games:
1. Death Match - where everyone tries to kill everyone and you resurrect when killed so you can keep fighting. The winner game has the most kills.

2. Team Play - where you are on the LUF or RAF side and the team with the highest score wins the game. You will resurrect when killed so you can keep fighting.

3. Quick Missions - where you fly coop against the AI (or AI and other humans) using BOBII Instant action or Historic missions.

slipBall
04-03-2009, 05:28 PM
Boy, I had such a hard time with set up that I never spent much time with the sim. I would assign keys to my controls, and somehow they would change constantly...got so agravated, just walked away http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

buddye1
04-03-2009, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by slipBall:
Boy, I had such a hard time with set up that I never spent much time with the sim. I would assign keys to my controls, and somehow they would change constantly...got so agravated, just walked away http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

Sorry for the problem, you need to hit save at the bottom of the key mapping screen before you exit. The user interface stuff was coded back in 1997 and we have not had time to work on it.

An all volunteer projects always must set priorities and the key mapping does work but it may not be as simple of a user interface as it could be.

stalkervision
04-03-2009, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by slipBall:
Boy, I had such a hard time with set up that I never spent much time with the sim. I would assign keys to my controls, and somehow they would change constantly...got so agravated, just walked away http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

Don't give up S/B. If I can save my joystick control settings anyone especially you certainly can. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

slipBall
04-04-2009, 06:48 AM
Geewiz its been awhile, but I would think that I hit "save", but then again I have never been much good at saving http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

stalkervision
04-04-2009, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by slipBall:
Geewiz its been awhile, but I would think that I hit "save", but then again I have never been much good at saving http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif