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View Full Version : Speculation: Yeesha vs Esher?



Eat_My_Shortz
08-22-2005, 07:25 AM
OK we've read in certain places that the player will have to make a "choice" between Yeesha and Esher.

Now even though Yeesh was (despite what a lot of people have said!) a good guy in Myst IV and Uru, there's no guarantee that it's her here.

We can't really count Myst IV since she was so young and obviously suffered a lot of trauma after that incident.

So we have to go by what she said in Uru. She said she used to be proud, and made some mistakes. It's almost like she's returned to atone for her past mistakes ("to give it back").

So if Uru is the "retribution", is Myst V the "fall" of Yeesha?

dyanafine
08-24-2005, 11:45 AM
That's been a basic assumption of mine from reading and viewing the marketing materials. Makes some sense too as that's the largest portion of time we don't know anything about. ie What's up with Yeesha, Kadish, the D'ni, and the Bahru that leads to the Uru plotline.

However, I'm open to non-linear options.

Boyue65
08-24-2005, 12:39 PM
In my ideal world, we'll have to pick a path between the D'ni extremist and the Bahro extremist -- a third way, if you will.

cathyk
08-25-2005, 11:11 AM
So if Uru is the "retribution", is Myst V the "fall" of Yeesha?


The way I see it (from the gameplay we saw before the demo and other bits and pieces) is that Yeesha's fall takes place before Myst V - you're there to resolve the mess Yeesha made of things. Yeesha having to step aside and let you do it is one of her learnings.

uecasm
08-27-2005, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Boyue65:
In my ideal world, we'll have to pick a path between the D'ni extremist and the Bahro extremist -- a third way, if you will.
Well, that is "classic" Myst, after all... from the start it seemed as if you had to choose between the two brothers, and it wasn't until the end that you discovered that the correct choice was neither. (Literally in between them, if you consider the placement of the books http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

From someone's review, it sounds like both Yeesha and Escher have tried (and failed) to solve the puzzles, so clearly neither one of them has all the answers. Most likely at some point they'll both give you incorrect advice, and you have to do something else entirely...

lotr-sam0711
08-27-2005, 06:26 PM
Well From what I've heard so far from the demo and reviews, I would have to say that I would side with Esher...but once I get both sides fully It may change. Yeesha has always been rather odd to me....

Boyue65
08-27-2005, 10:17 PM
The thing with Yeesha is that she seems to ignore the potential consequences of her actions. Assuming the Bahro were / are slaves to the D'ni, and assuming that she wants to let them out (lot of assumptions there) -- as we have in a way been led to believe -- she's completely ignoring the fact that after this long they probably want a piece of the D'ni and will carve her up for laughs.

The thing with Esher is that, from what he sees from the trailer and demo, he IS one of those D'ni that thinks it's a good idea to keep the Bahro slaves, which is morally reprehensible if a bit more realistic in approach.

Oh, and it could be that Yeesh couldn't solve the puzzles. However, if she can resurrect people and change Ages while they're still in existence -- and do it as dramatically as she does -- I somehow doubt that she would be stymied by the Bahro's puzzles. If the preview is right, and the only way is the slate that she can't grasp, then she would have just Written that little problem out of existence.

uecasm
08-28-2005, 03:30 AM
Originally posted by Boyue65:
Oh, and it could be that Yeesh couldn't solve the puzzles. However, if she can resurrect people and change Ages while they're still in existence -- and do it as dramatically as she does -- I somehow doubt that she would be stymied by the Bahro's puzzles. If the preview is right, and the only way is the slate that she can't grasp, then she would have just Written that little problem out of existence. You can only write changes in if you have access to the master Book, though (a linking book isn't sufficient), and they were usually kept well hidden.

Besides, the Bahro can clearly do just as much as she can, so they might be able to stop her. And EoA might be set before she discovers all those tricks anyway.

Eat_My_Shortz
08-31-2005, 01:48 AM
Besides, the Bahro can clearly do just as much as she can, so they might be able to stop her.
Whoa, now THAT's a big assumption!

Layniel
08-31-2005, 03:05 AM
Originally posted by Boyue65:
they probably want a piece of the D'ni and will carve her up for laughs.
well there isnt really much left for esher, so if this is the only danger, he might as well free the bahro.
if yeesha dies no problem... he didnt like her anyway, if he dies... he already lived enough and would just continue living alone (a shame the d'ni didnt have volley balls, esher could have painted a face on it and cal it Wilson... maybe the DRC left a cone for him, that would do)


well, we have seen what one bahro can do on command, but my theory continues to be that when they are freed they can themselves change ages at will... now what happens if two people try to rewrite one age in two different ways, at the same time? an unstable age! so the bahro might not want to destroy anything, but they could still do it accidentally


also if esher and Yeesha failed, is because, they have their own intentions. The stranger, or whoever we play, doesnt know anything about all this, and he/she just wants to dosomething altruistic and help people, even if it means going into dangerous situations. i think that will possibiltate the stranger to do whatever esher and yeesha couldn't

ivanxuereb
08-31-2005, 04:33 AM
Or maybe we have to choose someone else, like in the original Myst.

Eat_My_Shortz
08-31-2005, 07:02 AM
ATRUS!

Layniel
08-31-2005, 08:57 AM
"ah my friend, so you met Esher, the crazy d'ni we left stranded in noloben after he started becoming paranoid about some invented creatures he called bahro. ans also my daughter yeesha who became crazy after spending some time with her brothers on serenia... i think ill trap them in red and blue books
so what about about the page? did you bring the page?"

salgene
08-31-2005, 09:24 AM
I know everyone somewhat likes Yeesha's parents, but think about who taugh yessha most if not all of what she knows. On top of that if she learn things from the bahro then that even adds to her going over the edge.

Eshar is like those old time plantation owners that didnt want thier slaves to be set free. Which in of it's self isn't my type of person.

Does anyone watch the sci fi channel? if so have you watched stargate SG1. Remember those people they ran into that seemed to be primitive, but had tremedous power and knowledge.
I think the were call the nog(sp?)Looks can be decieving. The D'ni just saw what appeared to be a primitive people or even an animal and treated them as such.
The bahro being an inteligent and non-violent race alowed them to destroy themselves. Now I'm sure if the bahro wanted to they could be very nasty, but they choose not to be or they could be completely clueless and could be like a child with a neat toy.
Only way to tell is to wait for the game to come out http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif my brain hurts.

cathyk
08-31-2005, 10:50 AM
I know everyone somewhat likes Yeesha's parents, but think about who taugh yessha most if not all of what she knows. On top of that if she learn things from the bahro then that even adds to her going over the edge.

In Uru:CC, there are pictures around which are called bahroglyphs (and we've some in the screenshots for Myst V) - these bahroglyphs have been drawn by Yeesha and illustrate a journey (both physical and learning) that she took when she left Tomahna at the age of 16. They also reference a Teacher who teaches Yeesha a great deal, so it's not accurate to say that it was her parents who taught "most if not all she knows" because we don't know what she learnt from Teacher. Brett can tell you a lot more about this but here's a link to where he sets out the story as illustrated by the glyphs (http://linguists.bahro.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=399).

JustBrett
08-31-2005, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by cathyk:
Brett can tell you a lot more about this but here's a link to where he sets out the story as illustrated by the glyphs (http://linguists.bahro.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=399).
That was my initial quick take on that series of glyphs. I've refined my interpretation since then, but I haven't gotten around to posting it yet.

In the meantime, Dreamerblueon has a longer, illustrated interpretation HERE (http://ca.geocities.com/dreamerblue@rogers.com/yeesha_glyphs_new.html). I don't entirely agree with this version, but it is an excellent starting point for those who are interested.

I will say that I am now of the opinion that Teacher is the Watcher himself, and that he actually married Yeesha (back when she was young enough to be fertile) and produced a daughter (the famous "daughter of the daughter"). Given Yeesha's time-travel abilities, she sent her daughter way back to the Watcher's time to be raised in "civilization". Eventually the daughter married King Ji, and later disappeared "to join her father" even though the Watcher was supposedly dead by then. (The story about the Watcher's daughter is in the DRC notebook for King Ji. It's just a theory, but I'm very much hoping that Myst V gives us some evidence pro or con.)

yaycc
08-31-2005, 02:57 PM
Just to jog this around a bit, what do you make of Esher saying that Noloben used to be the Bahro's and then he came; and that the Bahro's didn't welcome him one bit? If someone came into my home, and they had a way that made me bound to do whatever they wrote down for me to do, I'd be pretty unwelcoming, too. Why did Esher go to Noloben? Was it connected to trying to get one of the tablets, and he failed and stayed on? Again, I'm not up on the history, and I thank you all for contributing to my knowledge.

uecasm
08-31-2005, 06:43 PM
I've always thought that the Watcher was Atrus, the Teacher was the stranger, and the "daughter of the daughter" was Yeesha herself.

cathyk
09-01-2005, 11:00 AM
I will say that I am now of the opinion that Teacher is the Watcher himself, and that he actually married Yeesha (back when she was young enough to be fertile) and produced a daughter (the famous "daughter of the daughter"). Given Yeesha's time-travel abilities, she sent her daughter way back to the Watcher's time to be raised in "civilization". Eventually the daughter married King Ji, and later disappeared "to join her father" even though the Watcher was supposedly dead by then. (The story about the Watcher's daughter is in the DRC notebook for King Ji. It's just a theory, but I'm very much hoping that Myst V gives us some evidence pro or con.)

Interesting theory, Brett (and thanks for the link to Dreamerblueon - I disagree with some of his interpretation - mainly relating to Yeesha's knowledge of written/spoken D'ni and the Art - but that's fairly minor). I need to read up on King Ji now.


I've always thought that the Watcher was Atrus, the Teacher was the stranger, and the "daughter of the daughter" was Yeesha herself.

Huh? /joke, right?

LordAkira110
09-01-2005, 02:25 PM
Ok on the trailor thats now on the done myst 5 website. Yeesha is talking through out it and she says that you will start this journey were she, atrus and her grandmother has( or something to that effect ) So I dont remember Atrus or Tianna going through this??? Im I just getting old?

larsschermer
09-01-2005, 03:03 PM
yeah, I€ve been wondering about that myself. i think, maybe we are suppose to go through the learning experience, it makes sense, since myts-revelation "the stranger" took active part in saving the day. But in UrU someone else had already walked the path, and could have made any necessary changes, we found what Yeesha wanted us to find, and learned from the experience. As Atrus and Ti'ana must have learned.

LordAkira110
09-01-2005, 03:09 PM
Yea but do you remember anything anywere which mentions so? I find it strange that they would have yeesha say so in the trailor but I cant recall it anywere


Also I noticed out of my own amusement.. but bahroglyph #9(i think) the one that has the techer standing above yeesha as shes writing, with all the books around her.... That kinda reminds me of Gehn and atrus... how he took pieces of other books to make his own book.

Thietris
09-01-2005, 03:39 PM
I wouldn't trust Esher. I can imagine him turning nasty. ... And he has halitosis.

Tallonenx
09-01-2005, 06:53 PM
I've been thinking, this could be wrong but, maybe Yeesha's "powers" come from the bahro slate? She can do things "impossible" according to the rules of the D'ni, and so maybe she can do these things using the rules of the Bahro?
Just speculation...

JustBrett
09-01-2005, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by LordAkira110:
Yeesha is talking through out it and she says that you will start this journey were she, atrus and her grandmother has( or something to that effect ) So I dont remember Atrus or Tianna going through this??? Im I just getting old?
All of them started their journeys into the Ages of D'ni from the desert in the Cleft area. Ti'ana went first, finding a passage to D'ni from the desert. Atrus was collected from the Cleft by Gehn and taken to D'ni through the passage in the volcano. Yeesha began her journey in Tomahna, lived in the Cleft by herself for a while, then made her way to D'ni through the volcano.

I think what Yeesha means by this speech is that she's about to send us to the volcano using her magic Grower powers. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tallonenx
09-01-2005, 06:58 PM
Yea, uhhhh, it shows the elevator going down the great shaft when she says this during the "bonus" video.

Achenar625
09-02-2005, 08:16 AM
How do we even know that the Bahro "have" to do whatever we say on the slate? (how do you figure out if they're actually taking it, anyway?) Maybe they just like helping out the D'ni, like house elves or something.
Or maybe I'm just rambling. A bit of speculation, though, perhaps this slate and the Linking Pedestals are predecessors to the Relto book? Esher did mention something about the Bahro's "abuse of the Art of Linking". Maybe the ability to Write with their symbols is what he was talking about. And with Yeesha's knowledge of both the D'ni and the Bahro Arts, she could easily become unstoppable.
Except... remember, Atrus said in Uru, "We fear such power, it... changes people." I'm still unsure as to whether Yeesha is actually a "good guy", even in Uru.

One other thing; for those of you who remember MystTree.com, do you remember pride.gif? It looks exactly like one of these strange symbols!

Mr Zebe D
09-02-2005, 08:32 AM
I was wondering when someone was going to mention the Pride symbol. It is the same. It's 5 in the numbering, if you notice.

LordAkira110
09-02-2005, 11:58 AM
Ahh, thanks JustBrett. I thought maybe she was talking about the "journey" for the bahro tablets.

But anywho, I think your going to have to pick a third option. Kinda like the first Myst.
Maybe Yeesha might have good intentions. But what if you also find out that Esher might be on to something. So there might be enough evidence for you to pick either way but untill you get the whole of everthing, you decide whats right.

Eat_My_Shortz
09-09-2005, 05:54 AM
I don't trust neither of them... lol, i reckon Atrus comes at the end, good dependable Atrus.
And you choose him...... only problem is its very cliched.

Well, maybe atrus will come at the end and you find out he was bad all along, Sirrus was really the good guy along with Gehn hehe.

uecasm
09-10-2005, 04:14 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif Wouldn't that just annoy everybody? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

gadreel23
09-10-2005, 06:56 AM
I, personally, suspect that it will be a case of (like Myst I) being forced throughout Myst V to try to decide/choose between "the lesser of 2 evils"... There was a time when I had complete confidence in Yeesha's judgement... I am no longer so sure. <shrug> I'm not sure I'd choose her over Escher... OR vice versa, for that matter... To me, Escher is just a voice out of the past pre-fall D'ni... Just another Xenophobic Naysayer who likes to call people things like "...animals who can link..." and so on... And I sure as heck cannot believe that ANY future lies in that direction. <shrug again>

I just finished re-reading the entire 3-novel collection of the books by Rand, RAWA, et al... And something I was once again struck by at the end of "The Book of D'ni" is that Atrus & Catherine BOTH knew... UNDERSTOOD... that there was ZERO reason to rebuild D'ni in the Cavern. That if it was GOING to be rebuilt it would be on Tomahna. <shrug> Plain & simple. No two ways about it.

So one HAS to wonder just how FAR off her rocker Yeesha is "these days"...? I mean, look what all that solitude in the dead ruins of D'ni did to GEHN... And we all KNOW that there is a VERY definite streak of ISANITY and MALICIOUS CRUELTY running through Atrus' bloodline... (With a few notable exceptions.) But look at just how MANY of Atrus' relatives and progeny just went BAD... heh.

Just some thoughts of the moment... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Don't hate me nor yell at me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-Gadreel

Eat_My_Shortz
09-10-2005, 09:01 AM
Yep I always thought it strange that Yeesha/DRC were rebuilding D'ni when Atrus in Myst III explicitly said "We should not restore the ancient city as planned..." and had to write a new home.

(btw what do u mean on Tomahna? He wrote Releeshahn for the D'ni - Tomahna was just for him and his family, and incidentally Tomahna was the same age as D'ni) - EMS Relto - Facts - D'ni (http://www.geocities.com/emsrelto/facts.html#EarthDniCleftTomahna), for any disputes about that.


I, personally, suspect that it will be a case of (like Myst I) being forced throughout Myst V to try to decide/choose between "the lesser of 2 evils" Er didn't we choose "neither of them".?

gadreel23
09-10-2005, 09:14 AM
(btw what do u mean on Tomahna? He wrote Releeshahn for the D'ni - Tomahna was just for him and his family...

You're right of course. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif I was half asleep when I wrote that message. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I meant Releeshan.


Er didn't we choose "neither of them".?

Yes, which was my point...heh.

-Gadreel

mszv
09-10-2005, 10:49 AM
From what I read Atrus is not in this game.

uecasm
09-10-2005, 06:31 PM
Actually, Gamespot's latest preview (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/adventure/mystvendo***es/preview_6131070.html) (massive spoilers!) hints that he is. But only a little bit. And it's entirely possible that they just misinterpreted something, so don't get your hopes up too high http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

mszv
09-10-2005, 08:54 PM
Wow, I missed that little tidbit, thanks!

Layniel
09-11-2005, 02:57 AM
well my wacky theory about Atruss family being crazy goes like this:

you have Aitrus and his family, they are cool people, and he marries Ti'Anna and have a child

from now they have joined human and D'ni blood who knows what it could make to a child?

gehn is born, he is a crazy guy with god complex

gehn marries keta, a human, they have a child, whose blood is mainly human, and there is almost no conflict with the d'ni blood.

Atrus is born, hes ok, though he always thinks that he has to save everybody and is to obsessed with science.

now atrus marries Katran, a rivenese, they have three children, all of them have now 3 different kinds of blood, from 3 different worlds and its conflicting all the time with each other.

Sirrus, Achenar and Yeesha are crazy and have a god complex.


uhm yeah...

Bhob
10-05-2005, 07:17 PM
The Bahro IS your father, Yeesha. Search your feelings, you know it to be true...

stellaflora
10-06-2005, 06:40 PM
Lol, now that would make a scary ending http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

But then wasn't Yeesha supposed to have a child? She does see the Bahro as equils after all...

Mr Zebe D
10-07-2005, 03:27 AM
Now what would you get if you crossed a human with a bat?

Bhob
10-07-2005, 04:25 PM
Bruce Wayne, of course!