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View Full Version : Fb109K and La~7 have Correct Climb



XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 03:28 AM
Try AI controlled Fb109K and La~7 start 400km/hr @ 500meters and set distant waypoint 400km/hr @ 9000 meters.

La~7 climbs faster than Fb109K until about 4000 meters altitude...with 109K outrunning La in horizontal. Then 109K catches La altitude at about 6000 meters. Fb109K gets to 9000m first and about 1km in front. This is really good stuff, as it should be.

Notice how the internet Noobs whine about La~7 outclimb Fb109K but they don't give the altitude. Cos there is a reason for hiding data. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Or they don't know how to set waypoints in FMB. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 03:28 AM
Try AI controlled Fb109K and La~7 start 400km/hr @ 500meters and set distant waypoint 400km/hr @ 9000 meters.

La~7 climbs faster than Fb109K until about 4000 meters altitude...with 109K outrunning La in horizontal. Then 109K catches La altitude at about 6000 meters. Fb109K gets to 9000m first and about 1km in front. This is really good stuff, as it should be.

Notice how the internet Noobs whine about La~7 outclimb Fb109K but they don't give the altitude. Cos there is a reason for hiding data. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Or they don't know how to set waypoints in FMB. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 05:08 AM
nt

Buzz_25th
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<center>
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Message Edited on 08/14/0309:08PM by BuzzU

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 06:17 AM
Everyone who flew the k4 was just getting spoiled by its rocketship climb rate before the patch. I know I abused the heck out of it's ridiculous climb rate starting from sea level. You could out spiral climb anything at any altitude.

I flew the dora the most, now it almost seems to fly like the k4 used to. Not sure if it should actually climb that fast.

I guess this is a beta patch so any left over minor fm adjustments will come soon. At least the super ridiculous pre-patch FM are fixed as far as I can tell.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 06:54 AM
CrackFerret wrote:
- Everyone who flew the k4 was just getting spoiled by
- its rocketship climb rate before the patch. I know I
- abused the heck out of it's ridiculous climb rate
- starting from sea level. You could out spiral climb
- anything at any altitude.
-
- I flew the dora the most, now it almost seems to fly
- like the k4 used to. Not sure if it should actually
- climb that fast.

All in all I think everything, besides a few select FM problems and some screwy sound issues, has gotten better.

I-16's actually die now (Though I've noticed that Stukas are more difficult to shoot down)

Besides P-47 and FW-190 roll rate problems, I think everything is fine.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 09:31 AM
as a side note: the K-4 still does outclimb everything... but instead of jamming the stick backwards and ripping her into a climb, you have to use finess... i supose that turned the n00bs off to it, but i love it now more than ever (because it's realistic...).

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 10:38 AM
La7(3xB-20 mm) Climb in Fb 1.1b .

4 Minutes to 5000 m with 100 % fuel raditor closed supercharger used and forzah (Without rudder trimm brings maybe some seconds more).

Data According to La7 production

Climb to 5000 m
in 1944 La7production 5.1 min
in 1945 La7production 5.3 min

La-7TK 1944 4.5 min.

Only have 1 source when someone have another plz page me to get it fixed.




Message Edited on 08/15/0309:40AM by BBB_Hyperion

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:19 AM
BBB_Hyperion wrote:
- La7(3xB-20 mm) Climb in Fb 1.1b .
-
- 4 Minutes to 5000 m with 100 % fuel raditor closed
- supercharger used and forzah (Without rudder trimm
- brings maybe some seconds more).
-
- Data According to La7 production
-
- Climb to 5000 m
- in 1944 La7production 5.1 min
- in 1945 La7production 5.3 min
-
- La-7TK 1944 4.5 min.
-
- Only have 1 source when someone have another plz
- page me to get it fixed.
-
-
-
So it's not that the K4s (climb) is under modelled, it just appears that way when flown versus the over modelled climb rate of La7

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:24 AM
The time ot height figures above are w/o forcaj, with forcaj La 7 (1945) reached 5000m in 4.6 minutes.

Butch

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:28 AM
Seems preaty Funny I posted Prepatch That K4 was the Noob AC for the Germans

I took a beating for that.......belive me

Now Im laughing as I soar around in my A9 Yaaaaaaaa Baby!!!

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1059752328.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">The "Ace Edge"(c).
With my incremental trim
I am actually able to turn so quickly that, I never turn at all.
In Fact the Planet Earth rotates around the Axis of My PC, thus giving me the optimum turn rate and insuring that you
the bandit are promptly fraged !!!
In memory Of Ray R.I.P.[/i]</font>

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:30 AM
GoreChild wrote:
-
- I-16's actually die now (Though I've noticed that
- Stukas are more difficult to shoot down)


Hammer it with the A9 with 108s or 103s http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif it goes down real fast....


<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1059752328.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">The "Ace Edge"(c).
With my incremental trim
I am actually able to turn so quickly that, I never turn at all.
In Fact the Planet Earth rotates around the Axis of My PC, thus giving me the optimum turn rate and insuring that you
the bandit are promptly fraged !!!
In memory Of Ray R.I.P.[/i]</font>

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 12:11 PM
butch2k wrote:
- The time ot height figures above are w/o forcaj,
- with forcaj La 7 (1945) reached 5000m in 4.6
- minutes.
-
- Butch
-
Well maybe my source is little outdated on this. Only the La7 with Turboloader(La-7TK 1944 4.5 min) had specs in that categorie. Can you post a newer chart or specs ?.

And accoding to planelist
http://int.games.1c.ru/il2_forgotten_battles/ it is at least in the planelist.

And The 4.5 Minutes can be found in the Il2 Database too .

But anyway 4,6 is still not 4,0 minutes or on some tests 3 minutes 50 seconds to 5000 m that can be archieved in 1.1b.

I agree about 40 50 seconds diff is not much so only of minor interest.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 12:23 PM
The la7 is uber in 1.1b now.

Testing with AI planes is nonsense.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 12:48 PM
La-7
SL_00:00
1000m_00:34
2000m_01:14
3000m_02:02
4000m_02:55
5000m_03:43
6000m_04:40
7000m_05:47
8000m_07:12
9000m_09:10
10000m_11:51

with an initial climbrate of ~29m/s /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif ...

And I even don't fly the La7 very often, so that it should be possible to climb a bit faster than that.


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Message Edited on 08/15/0301:48PM by Atzebrueck

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 12:58 PM
pipgig wrote:
- The la7 is uber in 1.1b now.
-

Climb La7 to 5000 m 4 Minutes
Climb K4 to 5000 m 3 Minutes 14 seconds.

La handles now more realistic. Roll at high speed slowed, turning inferior to that of the la5n. It doesnt keep E in turns as it had been. It brakes apart earlier at high speeds. So where is the überplane ? Seems the fm is accurate.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 01:28 PM
the la7 wasnt changed since 0.8

be sure in 1.1 (not 1.1b - betta) it will be tune down a bit.
there are a few things that need still to fix in the 1.1beta,
Tune down the La7 and give the p47 better roll rate are one of those fixes that need to be done.

If you are not blind and look objektive you will see taht

1. The p47 roll rate is way off. I was shocked when i jumped into the P47 to test its roll rate. First i thought its just Amiwhinning so i decide to test it my self. And it was clearly seen if u look objektive taht there is a error in the roll rate of the Jug.

2. Now lets keep up the objektive look and u must admin La7 climps way to good.
look at the la5fn and then to the la7 it performs like a new aircraft. Where in real they must perform pretty similar, la7 also not stalls.

So there are still some points in the beta patch that need a closer look.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 01:50 PM
pipgig wrote:
- the la7 wasnt changed since 0.8
-
- be sure in 1.1 (not 1.1b - betta) it will be tune
- down a bit.
- there are a few things that need still to fix in the
- 1.1beta,
- Tune down the La7 and give the p47 better roll rate
- are one of those fixes that need to be done.
-
- If you are not blind and look objektive you will see
- taht
-
- 1. The p47 roll rate is way off. I was shocked when
- i jumped into the P47 to test its roll rate. First i
- thought its just Amiwhinning so i decide to test it
- my self. And it was clearly seen if u look objektive
- taht there is a error in the roll rate of the Jug.
-
- 2. Now lets keep up the objektive look and u must
- admin La7 climps way to good.
- look at the la5fn and then to the la7 it performs
- like a new aircraft. Where in real they must perform
- pretty similar, la7 also not stalls.
-
- So there are still some points in the beta patch
- that need a closer look.

You forgot the abnormal roll behaviour of the FW190's in your fix list.

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 01:57 PM
yes i dont wanted to list here all bugs but yes you are right also the FW190 seem to roll to quick in high speeds.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 02:34 PM
pipgig wrote:
- yes i dont wanted to list here all bugs but yes you
- are right also the FW190 seem to roll to quick in
- high speeds.
-
-

but only a couple of seconds.. I dont want the FW-190 to become P-47 roller in Fb 1.1 .)

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 04:28 PM
Typing numbers down is worthless. Make a track of your tests.

25th_Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 05:54 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- Typing numbers down is worthless. Make a track of
- your tests.

Bad idea while the track recorder is screwed up in 1.1b. Ntrk would do the job... but 1MB for a silly 5-10min climb?? Fck it! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif Don't even think of that traffic... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif


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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 06:09 PM
What`s that repeated BS (sorry, it really gets boring to hear it all the time) about K-4`s climb rate become worser?!

It`s EXACTLY the same as it was.

In Il-2FB pre-release beta, it took 40 secs to reach 1500m from 500m start altitude, at a 270kph IAS sustained climb with radiators half open (4). That translates to 25m/sec avarage rate of climb.

In Il-2FB v1.0 release, it took 40 secs to reach 1500m from 500m start altitude, at a 270kph IAS sustained climb with radiators half open (4). That translates to 25m/sec avarage rate of climb.

In Il-2FB Beta7, it took 40 secs to reach 1500m from 500m start altitude, at a 270kph IAS sustained climb with radiators half open (4). That translates to 25m/sec avarage rate of climb.

In Il-2FB Beta8, it took 40 secs to reach 1500m from 500m start altitude, at a 270kph IAS sustained climb with radiators half open (4). That translates to 25m/sec avarage rate of climb.

In Il-2FB V1.1b release, it took 40 secs to reach 1500m from 500m start altitude, at a 270kph IAS sustained climb with radiators half open (4). That translates to 25m/sec avarage rate of climb.

In German test with K-4, similiar conditions, on avarge the plane did 24.5-25m/sec at the same altitude.

All for complex engine management, 110%+MW50, 100% fuel, in Crimea map.



IMHO all this hype about decreased climb rates are originated in the fact that the 109E`s climb rate was finally corrected (tuned down).

But it`s so boring that every 3rd thread is about how the K-4 climbs worser now...


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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 06:10 PM
I didn't know the tracks were screwed up in the patch. they should have released th08 patch. It didn't have half the problems the 1.1b does.

25th_Buzz
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ZG77_Nagual
08-15-2003, 06:17 PM
Buzz, I found tracks unuseable in .08 - now they seem to be working - I've made a bunch - including online - I've seen no problems. In .08 the outcome of tracks changed everytime you played them.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 06:34 PM
I didn't try the tracks in either patch. Then i'll stick to my original staement. Make a trck to back up your tests. Otherwise it has no meaning.

25th_Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 10:40 PM
WUAF_Mj_Hero wrote:
- as a side note: the K-4 still does outclimb
- everything... but instead of jamming the stick
- backwards and ripping her into a climb, you have to
- use finess... i supose that turned the n00bs off to
- it, but i love it now more than ever (because it's
- realistic...).
-
-

I keep trying against ai but they just stay with me but in FB 1.0 it was no problem :/

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 10:44 PM
pipgig wrote:
- The la7 is uber in 1.1b now.
-
- Testing with AI planes is nonsense.
-
-

In test AI la7 just follows k4 in dive to 800 plus is that just cos its AI, but in lag7 with me as pilot it breaks up about 700 its wierd.....

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:39 AM
i'd take the K-4 to 890 and see of the LA is with you then... if so, there's definitely an issue..

Also, the AI can be tricky... if you "gently" climb up as i said, you can be sure that the LA will cut your loop, and undo a lot of what you've done... to get away from that, i'd fly level for about 5-8 sec, so that the LA can get down to your alt... then climb, that way the LA can only cut the loop half as much (or less).