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View Full Version : Rear view is non historically accurate



F4UDOA
10-20-2005, 08:33 AM
In the 1944 Joint Fighter Conferance in Patuxant Maryland NAS the "6" view of varios aircraft was discussed. In that discussion it is stated that in an F4U the rear view allowed the pilot to see the virtical stabilizer when looking backwards. In the P-51D the pilot was able to see the opposite horizontal Stab over his shoulder.

Why then are we only able to see the back of the head rest in Pacific fighters? It is not only non-historic it is unbelievable that pilots would fly this way.

F4UDOA
10-20-2005, 08:33 AM
In the 1944 Joint Fighter Conferance in Patuxant Maryland NAS the "6" view of varios aircraft was discussed. In that discussion it is stated that in an F4U the rear view allowed the pilot to see the virtical stabilizer when looking backwards. In the P-51D the pilot was able to see the opposite horizontal Stab over his shoulder.

Why then are we only able to see the back of the head rest in Pacific fighters? It is not only non-historic it is unbelievable that pilots would fly this way.

Waldo.Pepper
10-20-2005, 08:44 AM
Because it is a game, and there are limits.

JerryFodder
10-20-2005, 08:45 AM
Because the pilot can lean around and look down the side of the head armour but in the sim it pivots on the spot.

I would like to see a little 'intelligence' built into that cockpit view where when you rotate the mouse to look over your shoulder the view adjust accordingly although you are leaning. Since the only reason you'd look over your shoulder is to look behind then I don't see why this is an issue unless it's differcult to code. I can imagine the trickiest issue to overcome is the remodelling of cockpits for that extra new view.
F4U rear view is hopelessly bad, as is P47.

Ritter_Cuda
10-20-2005, 08:55 AM
well you take a frame rate hit on small mirrors i would hate to think of the hit you would get for a larger one. to movearound in the cockpit would most likey be a code nightmare. hopefuly they can use the Track IR with the next one with the vector to alow you to move around and look . but for theis sim i think what we have is just that.
Cuda

MAILMAN------
10-20-2005, 01:10 PM
In the online game Aces High you can set up your views for example to: lean to right and look straight back to replace the default rear (looking at the seat back) view. Since the straight back rear view is unused in this sim maybe this could be the option for that with the user choosing to look this way by leaning to the right or the left and straight back to seem "most of his 6".

Aimosika
10-20-2005, 02:26 PM
And every true ace removed rear mirror.

F4UDOA
10-20-2005, 07:39 PM
It hardly seems like a realistic 6 view hould be asking to much. I am a long time vetern of Aces High and AW. The 6 view here is the worst I have seen. I had always heard that the Il-2 series had the most realistic FM but I hardly think the 6 view falls into that catagory.

This has nothing to do with rear view mirrors or frame rates. This is simply what you should see when looking over your left or right shoulder. It is even more restrictive than WB3 which I find unrealistic as well.

Also the head turning speeds are a little slow, the pilot must have arthritis.

han freak solo
10-20-2005, 08:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F4UDOA:
Also the head turning speeds are a little slow, the pilot must have arthritis. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you get a TrackIr device for viewing, you can look faster than your eyes can comprehend.

The next 1C:Maddox game should support the "leaning" in the cockpit for better views via the TrackIr 6DOF. http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/

LEXX_Luthor
10-20-2005, 08:37 PM
Goludnikov was trained to lean out I-16 cockpit...I don't recall if he could see the rudder or not. The olde link to his interview is broken now.

Skyraider3D
10-21-2005, 01:43 AM
TrackIR is great but it doesn't work under WinXP64 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

JerryFodder
10-21-2005, 02:45 AM
Why would the view be different for trackIR than users with a mouse?

If I move the mouse left I look left, I imagine that TrackIR simply takes this role over.

EJGrOst_Caspar
10-21-2005, 06:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F4UDOA:
Also the head turning speeds are a little slow, the pilot must have arthritis. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can adjsut the head turning speed manually in the 'conf.ini'.

Feathered_IV
10-21-2005, 07:06 AM
You can adjust it in the game in the hardware setup too. The default speed is 1, but if you change it to 2 the effect is more natural. Mind you, it takes getting used to at first http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Jumoschwanz
10-22-2005, 09:30 AM
Every now and then you just have to pull a "crazyivan" manuever.

Oftentimes I will do this just to see what is going on. Instead of flying in a straight patch to a heading, I will zig-zag every minute or two at 30 or 45 degree angles back and forth so I can see everything. If you just fly dead straight you will not only miss what is behind you, but you will have dead-spots where there are windscreen bars and under your wings,etc.

No we cannot move much in our cockpits, but it is a fact in this sim and you will have to deal with it or fly arcade.

I don't seem to have too much a problem with it, it is as much having the smarts to know when you can expect someone to be on your six as anything. You have to be aware of the threat level of the area you are flying in.

At high altitude, I will occasionally just loop straight up and back. A number of times I have caught some poor bas tard who was on my low six and turned the tables because now I am coming down on him with every advantage! Pretty funny stuff.
If you are looking around like you should be and aware of the threat level in your area, tehn you will have no problems. If you are distracted, lazy, or just plain not that swift at this sim, then you are scre wed and you will get bounced. But I think this is the way it was in WWII anyway. Often you read about how most shot down neer saw it coming.

Jumoschwanz

DmdSeeker
10-23-2005, 04:42 PM
I agree the rear view is too limited; and your favourite plane; the hog; is prolly the worst of the bunch when it comes to fighters.

But it's not just the six view; the view straight up is too limited too.

Nonetheless; every one's in the same boat; and while getting bounced or having some one sneak up on low six can be an irritation; in turning combat you do get used to the view limitations.

The argument over which is "realer"; AH's over generous views or IL's over restricted views is endless; but there's no doubt that IL-2 REALLY suffers from not having full vector support for track IR (and it's one of the very few areas where HTC are clearly ahead of Maddox games).

However; while Oleg's stated quite firmly that full vector support will never happen in IL-2 due to the way cockpit elements are modelled; it's also been stated that future Maddox sims will support Track IR fully

MrQBerrt
10-24-2005, 10:16 AM
I fly the hog with the canopy open about as often as not. Sure, it causes some drag, but being able to check my 6 makes up for it pretty often. Also, if that's not enough help for you, fly around with the seat up, you can get a pretty good view of your 6 that way.

On a slightly different subject. Every sim I've tried 6-DOF Track-IR in, looking over my shoulder and leaning works backwards from what I expect it to. Say I look over my left shoulder and lean to the left: should I lean to the left in relation to the plane and to my IRL head (port), or should I lean left in relation to my virtual head (starboard). I hope this is an switchable option in BOB.