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tomtheyak
01-16-2007, 10:42 AM
Man, I have to say what a rotten fighting a/c this little thing is! (IMHO!)

Directional stability - VERY poor.

Resultant stability as Gun platform - ATROCIOUS!

Speed (at most alts) v. opponents - inferior.

Acceleration v. opponents - much inferior!

Dive characteristics - picks up speed nicely but you won't be around long to appreciate it!

Manoueverability - quick roll but turn is WORSE than that of 109F2 and F4. Constantly fighting the rudder to maintain anything near a coordinated turn and its constantly on the edge of either spinning in, or snapping out. AT low speed the 109 just sits there solid and blows ten bells of cr@p out of you! With poor acceleration theres little to do when trapped in the situation - which is difficult to avoid as its the only option you have when facing them is to try and turn fight 'em with the huge advantages they have in RoC, acceleration and zoom climb.

What am I doing wrong - I thought the Yak-1 was almost on a par with Bf109F and in particular was supposed to have great handling qualities and rely on its superior manouevrability to get out of trouble?

Any Bf109 pilots share any difficulties they have when engaging Yak-1s? It can be different from the other seat I know.

And if anyone says always engage them from above obviously hasn't tried a night on Spits V. 109s Murmansk map!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Tom
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BillyTheKid_22
01-16-2007, 10:52 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Yak-1!!!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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.................................................. ..............

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faustnik
01-16-2007, 11:04 AM
Tom,

Yeah, I agree, it's an uphil fight. Like all the Yaks, the Yak-1 is really twitchy. Bf109s will always be above, as they have a far superior climb rate. The Yaks can turn well, but, like you say, it's a constant adventure, while the 109s pull turns with ease.

I do like the later Yak-1B and feel some confidence in that plane.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Brain32
01-16-2007, 11:15 AM
A very irritaing crashin nature of ubi forums made me write this twice(or maybe more http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif).
Yes Yak1 is not a match for 109F's, they are about on par with Emils.
Yak1B is much capable and down low it can even take on G2, however at alt you are in trouble again.
Bring friends with you and throw in a few I16's in the mic, then try to get them low and slow, many impatient ones easily fall for that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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mynameisroland
01-16-2007, 11:39 AM
Well the Yak-1 was pants in RL wasnt it ? As it stands, the Yak-1 is faster and more manuverable than the Bf 109 E series and packs a greater punch than a Bf 109 F2.

However put it up against a Bf 109 F4 and it will get owned - which is the way it should be. Bf 109 F4 was an excellent fighter.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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JtD
01-16-2007, 11:46 AM
Your really describe the feelings I have whenever I am forced to jump into one. It is the most unsteady airborne piece in FB. I think it is about on par with the Emils, since some of the hard numbers favour it. But the handling really takes it away again. Imho, the Yak-1 isn't even an Experten plane, it just sucks.

Considered it was said to have been a joy to fly by the average, very green VVS pilot of that time, something is pretty odd imho.

DKoor
01-16-2007, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by JtD:
Imho, the Yak-1 isn't even an Experten plane, it just sucks. This is the single biggest truth of this thread.

Yak-1 is outmatched by his adversaries, but on a positive note it is quite an improvement over older types such are I-15/16/153.
I would say that Yak-1 is somewhat better plane than Emil but that isn't a bold statement for sure.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

<hr class="ev_code_hr" />http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5638/g14hartmannlh1.jpg (http://airwarfare.com/mediawiki-1.4.5/index.php?title=Main_Page)<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">@ STURMOVIK?: 1946 - coming November 2006 in ETO and Australia

VW-IceFire
01-16-2007, 04:42 PM
I LIKE the Yak-1. I'm an odd sort I know. Been flying the Yak-1 for quite a while and so I know it fairly well from patch to patch. Its not a great fighter by any stretch of the imagination. Compared to the utter **** I consider the I-16 and slightly lesser extent the LaGG-3...the Yak-1 is a breath of fresh air in comparison.

I'd say its about as good as a 109E-4...maybe an E-7 as well. You CAN turn fight a 109F-2...its doable. I have done it in 4.071 and I have done it in every patch previously. Its hard...usually involves about 5-8 rotations before you can get the better of the 109 pilot. It seems that the 109 pilot, if he's really good, can hold onto it for maybe more than 10 rotations. Not a good spot to be in for either plane really...you can hold him but he either has to loosen up or stall before you can get him. Then...you have about 15 seconds to get the right angle in, radiator closed, power to max, trimmed out so you can accelerate, get behind and have a shot before he flies away or climbs.

Better to get them in a dogfight with a bunch of planes before you take them on. Overall you can compete with Bf109F-2's or F-4's...but not well. You aren't on the better end of the stick. They are...by quite a bit. That said...if you get behind one...you can stay with him, hold them in maneuvers, and destroy them if you're good. Its not quite on par but if you get into a good spot you can hold them to most maneuvers....except for really long dives...then its all about critical dive speed.

Despite all that....I really like flying the Yak-1. It has character.

Now...the Yak-1B is another story. It can match 109G-2's in my opinion. Down low its faster than a Yak-9 and more agile as well. Up higher then the Yak-9 is the better choice.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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anarchy52
01-16-2007, 04:56 PM
Early yaks were the the best fighters at VVS disposal early in the conflict.
LaGG-3 was much worse in terms of acceleration, climb rate and maneuverability, MiG-3 had serious handling problems.

leitmotiv
01-16-2007, 05:21 PM
I like the Yak-1, too. As a tyro virtual pilot I found it much easier to handle than 109s. It definitely was not a Spitfire in speed, but I found it to be like the real airplane---a good plane for inexperienced pilots---it made you look better than you were. Not as leaden as the LaGG of its period, not as powerful as the MiG, but maneuverable with a punch.

FlixFlix
01-16-2007, 05:39 PM
My personal experience with the Yak-1 is that in a sustained, low-E turn over the right side the Yak can outturn (or at least turn with) an F2/4 if the Yak driver is determined, but not over the left side. If they turn over right before me, I usually don't follow. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

S!,
I/JG78_Flix

RCAF_Irish_403
01-16-2007, 05:45 PM
i would rather fly the Yak1 over LaGG3 anyday<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Originally posted by marc_hawkins:
Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. A 108:0 kill ratio is insignificant next to the power of the Force

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Rammjaeger
01-16-2007, 05:51 PM
"* When Hitler's military machine invaded the Soviet Union in the summer of 1941, it swept all resistance before it. Luftwaffe fighters destroyed Russian aircraft in the air and on the ground with fearsome effectiveness, and German aces racked up huge numbers of "kills".

Many of the aircraft destroyed were old and obsolete types, but the Germans also encountered newer Soviet aircraft, some of which were not so easily shot out of the sky. Among these newer types was the Yakovlev "Yak-1" fighter. <span class="ev_code_RED">At the time it was not a match for the German Messerschmitt Bf-109,</span> but in the coming years the Yak-1 and its successors would improve in quality and grow in numbers. In the end, they would fly unchallenged over a shattered Berlin."

http://www.vectorsite.net/avyak1.html


I will prefer the Bf-109E or F anytime. Speed and climb is much better, and both are decisive.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

"At last we are eye to eye with death. We must renounce all hopes of freaks and fortunes. Sacrifice to the last drop of blood is demanded of us. Surrender would paralyse and sap our race for generations." - Wehrmacht radio broadcast to German troops in Hungary, October 1944

tomtheyak
01-16-2007, 05:57 PM
Right thanks for the tips guys;

I'm flying online against opponents who are using flaps (unprototypically AFAIK - lowering flaps in a biffer wasn't far removed from lowering the undercart in an I16!) so the outturning thing is out. Even if in reality the Yak-1 had an advantage here this aspect of the game is exploited to nullify that. Gunnery at the edge is still an exercise in futility I am finding; tho I got a freakishly long crossing shot on a B-239 at 90degrees AOT! That flapping about near the stall is such a shot ruiner and is driving me nuts.

As for the right v. left turns, if you have to turn, it makes sense to go with the torque I guess.

Still not convinced tho!

@Leitmov: easier to fly than a 109?!? Wow, I don't know which sim your flying but I'd take a 109 over the Yak-1 ANYDAY of the week, even just joyriding; handles much more sweetly IMHO. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Tom
****

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BuzzU
01-16-2007, 06:15 PM
How do you think the Germans got so many kills?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Buzz
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Klemm.co
01-16-2007, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by BuzzU:
How do you think the Germans got so many kills?
Better pilots? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

BGs_Ricky
01-17-2007, 02:52 AM
IRL Yak-1 was supposed to be the better match the VVS had early in the war against the Bf-109F. In the sim however I do better in a LaGG-3 or even in an I-16 than in a Yak-1....
And if you're hit in a wing, you can just hope to be able to fly back to base, the Yak-1 will lose lots of speed and won't turn anymore after the slightest wing damage.

Rammjaeger
01-17-2007, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by Klemm.co:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BuzzU:
How do you think the Germans got so many kills?
Better pilots? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Obviously. But better planes also played a part, although a smaller one IMO.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

"At last we are eye to eye with death. We must renounce all hopes of freaks and fortunes. Sacrifice to the last drop of blood is demanded of us. Surrender would paralyse and sap our race for generations." - Wehrmacht radio broadcast to German troops in Hungary, October 1944

BGs_Ricky
01-17-2007, 06:57 AM
And better tactics too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

anarchy52
01-17-2007, 07:21 AM
Originally posted by BGs_Ricky:
And if you're hit in a wing, you can just hope to be able to fly back to base, the Yak-1 will lose lots of speed and won't turn anymore after the slightest wing damage.

One of the rare VVS birds that had damage effect on the FM modeled. Still it suffers less then say 109 or 190 when hit.

Most VVS fighters will not suffer from degraded performance when hit until the wing falls off or they break in half.

DKoor
01-17-2007, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Now...the Yak-1B is another story. It can match 109G-2's in my opinion. Down low its faster than a Yak-9 and more agile as well. Up higher then the Yak-9 is the better choice. I agree.

But for me Yak-1B/7B_LATE is the way to go untill Yak-3 or Yak-9U arrives.
Yak-7B_LATE was even better than 1B for me.
I didn't "flew" them recently but the wishlist was sure way that way before for me. Part of Yak-9 series just didn't cut it for me... although I enjoyed flying them...
I flew them in wobble patches things may have been changed nowadays. http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/modules/Forums/images/smiles/gm_shrug.gif

My single biggest complain to the fairly big part of the Yak series is the lack of the fuel indicator in-cockpit... makes my life complicated on longer missions especially if I get some battle damage (fuel leak).<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

<hr class="ev_code_hr" />http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5638/g14hartmannlh1.jpg (http://airwarfare.com/mediawiki-1.4.5/index.php?title=Main_Page)<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">@ STURMOVIK?: 1946 - coming November 2006 in ETO and Australia

leitmotiv
01-17-2007, 10:05 AM
Took me months to learn the 109 when I started using IL-2 in 2004, tomtheyak. Maybe it was just me, but I thought it was incredibly vicious. Even when I was green, the Yak-1 was easy enough for me to at least get in a fight when I would have spun out of control in a 109. No denying the Yak-1 is infinitely more forgiving than the 109.

faustnik
01-17-2007, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
No denying the Yak-1 is infinitely more forgiving than the 109.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

That is really interesting. On my system the exact opposite is true. I wonder how much stick setup has to do with this?

Out of all the lightweight a/c in PF, the Yak is by far the hardest to control on the edge of stall for me. The Bf109, Spitfire, Zero, and even the Italian planes are far more forgiving at the edges.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Pollack2006
01-17-2007, 10:14 AM
No denying the Yak-1 is infinitely more forgiving than the 109.

Errr, don't think so. The Yak family have an unnerving tendency to twist when pulled hard through a turn. 109s are utterly benign under the same circumstances, right down to stall speed.

VW-IceFire
01-17-2007, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Took me months to learn the 109 when I started using IL-2 in 2004, tomtheyak. Maybe it was just me, but I thought it was incredibly vicious. Even when I was green, the Yak-1 was easy enough for me to at least get in a fight when I would have spun out of control in a 109. No denying the Yak-1 is infinitely more forgiving than the 109.
It might have been more forgiving in IL-2 back then...but anytime since AEP 2.0 the Yak-1 is the exact opposite. I challenge you to fly it these days and find out. Its not easy. The 109 is nice and smooth...even in a stall. The Yak-1 pulls hard, flops, drops, and wails about for a bit before it recovers from a stall. Its vicious and the 109 is easy in comparison. Still its a plane with some character and you can do decently well against the 109s if you get the chance to.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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GR142-Pipper
01-17-2007, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Took me months to learn the 109 when I started using IL-2 in 2004, tomtheyak. Maybe it was just me, but I thought it was incredibly vicious. Even when I was green, the Yak-1 was easy enough for me to at least get in a fight when I would have spun out of control in a 109. No denying the Yak-1 is infinitely more forgiving than the 109.

It might have been more forgiving in IL-2 back then...but anytime since AEP 2.0 the Yak-1 is the exact opposite. I challenge you to fly it these days and find out. Its not easy. The 109 is nice and smooth...even in a stall. The Yak-1 pulls hard, flops, drops, and wails about for a bit before it recovers from a stall. Its vicious and the 109 is easy in comparison. Still its a plane with some character and you can do decently well against the 109s if you get the chance to. Agree. The Yak's have been the victim of an overly agressive torque model. This makes maintaining a turn tricky and lowers the effective turn rate to below planes that don't suffer from this flaw. Like the P-51's wing shedding and the P-38's compressability issues, it's unrealistic. Against 109's the Yak-1 just has to be flown cautiously.

GR142-Pipper

carguy_
01-17-2007, 06:42 PM
Why do you ppl always see it as 1v1?

The Yak has many qualities that come handy in historical coops.

It can carry rockets - do a quick tank attack and form a numerical superiority over target.

It can turn - if any 109 follows your turn,he dumps energy and gets owned by your friends.

It has very good rear visibility - you can get out of anything if you have good SA,or not get in anything in the first place.

It is tough - only wing hits cripple it,other than that even 20mm will not damage the engine on direct hit,wooden airframe takes much punishment.

Every Yak has a 20mm - you have no problems with disabling your enemies IF you have the right stick settings as the yak does not forgive bad stick settings.

The Yak has a very good camo - it blends with green background very nicely.In winter maps it is one of the easiest targets however.

It has very good high speed maneuverability - no 109 will beat you in 240-420km/h speed range.

You people have no clue.Throw in some Ratas and Migs and then come here bragging.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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GR142-Pipper
01-18-2007, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by carguy_:
[quote]Why do you ppl always see it as 1v1?

The Yak has many qualities that come handy in historical coops. Indeed but in a 1 v 1 or many vs many, the limitations of this plane relative to its peers become pretty apparent. The fundamental issue really is one of power.


Every Yak has a 20mm - you have no problems with disabling your enemies IF you have the right stick settings as the yak does not forgive bad stick settings. It's not a stick settings issue. For the last several revisions the Yaks have been plagued with the overly done (bogus, actually) torque issues. Unlike their adversaries, Yaks rapidly become unstable and their turn rates begin to suffer badly. Although I certainly agree that the plane can be successfully fought, one has to be especially ginger on the flight controls to do so close in.

GR142-Pipper

alert_1
01-18-2007, 02:23 AM
Yak 1/7 I16 combo could be very deadly, especially when coordinated via TS<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

I'm dislectic, so please bear with me...

F19_Ob
01-18-2007, 05:11 AM
Well, if one see the early Yak in the historical context it was good. Finally they got a plane wich was fast and had better chance to catch the enemy compared to the Rata and chaika wich were the normal mount (they still had many old Polikarpovs with only machineguns and the M62 engine, wich were outclassed), and the yak also could turn well enough to dogfight a 109, compared to the mig-3 and the heavy LaGG-3.

So from the russians standpoint it was good allright. Fast and could turn and all had cannon and mg's for a heavier punch with a few hits.
Many ofcourse were shot down but they got the enemy too more often, and that began to feel at 1942-43 before the La-5 entered service.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/f19_ob/ob_ver2.jpg

DKoor
01-18-2007, 06:03 AM
Lavochkin LA-5 is touted by players as perhaps a special plane when it entered service in this game (year ~ mid/late 1942) but the reality of Russian war in the skies was something different.
VVS pilots were in general convinced that there wasn't some major difference between Yak-9 and LA-5 for instance, I've read many accounts where some Russian pilots have went that far to claim that there was a "Yak lobby" "Lavochkin lobby" and "Land lease lobby" (the most silent of all due to understandable reasons). Just for illustration some distinguished VVS aces like "Boroda" Fadeev or Pokryshkin were in full confidence of Airacobra abilities...
Anyway when I say "lobby" it downs to this; regiments (pilots) who flew Yak-1 mainly converted to Yak-7/9 while regiments (pilots) who flew LaGG-3 mainly converted to LA-5 at later stages of war.
So there was a subjective "human" component related to this... they liked their crates and developed some kind of friendly rivalry.

But the truth is, Yak-1B/7B/9 (basic) and Lavochkin 5 (basic) (all production series of year 1942) were inferior planes to German Gustav of that time (G2/G4) and FW-190A4/5 according to many sources regarding plane performance. But not by a large margin so for the first time VVS pilots were able to strike back on the Luftwaffe, on more or less equal terms...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

<hr class="ev_code_hr" />http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5638/g14hartmannlh1.jpg (http://airwarfare.com/mediawiki-1.4.5/index.php?title=Main_Page)<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">@ STURMOVIK?: 1946 - coming November 2006 in ETO and Australia

msalama
01-18-2007, 06:25 AM
...until the wing falls off or they break in half.

...and the winner is RIGHT HERE!!! Yowza yowza yowza!!! Our monthly award for the worst-smelling piece of... erm... UBI opinion goes to this young gentleman here http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Or to put it differently: Got Track(tm)?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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mynameisroland
01-18-2007, 08:31 AM
Was flying Yak 9 Full Real settings online yesterday. Server was very quiet but I bumped in to Fw 190 A4 on the deck. I heard his engine as he passed me on my 3 o'clock. I quickly located him using superb cockpit view and we began a short scissor fight. I got on his 6 pretty quickly, matched his manuver and hit his cockpit area with my 1st burst.

The Fw 190 A4 continued inverted straight in to the deck. 3 hits scored, knocked out all his controls http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I rarely ever fly the Yak but in the last month ive taken the Yak 1B and Yak 9 out for a spin. Their speed on the deck is brilliant, they are competitive with anything the Luftwaffe throws up and they only begin to suck at around 4500m. I was cruisng around on the deck, radiators at 4 , throttle 90% and was going around 515 km/h at 200m alt.

I still cant get over how great their rear view is!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/mynameisroland/boemherTemp.jpg

JtD
01-18-2007, 10:56 AM
One of my best Yak moments was in a 1b. I was looking for the enemy and went rather deep into enemy territory where I found two 109s with a slight alt disadvantage at a bout 4km. I went for them, they turned onto me so I found myself in a head on with one of them. We opened fire and we both hit, with about one cannon shell each. I saw how his propeller stopped, while his hit just destroyed my machine gun. I closed rad and headed for home, and I managed to shake his friend. A minute later I find a Fw, apparently unaware of my presence. I get to his 6, and his evasive action is limited to a gentle climbing turn. I open fire, hit immediately and he just explodes. I check my stats, I scored 5 hits in total that flight.

Since it doesn't get any better than that, I went back to base.

That was about the best Yak sortie I ever had, unless you look at T version sorties. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

mynameisroland
01-18-2007, 11:03 AM
Lol, thats some lucky gunnery!

I find the Shvak to be very intuative to aim with. It requires less lead estimation, it isnt as powerful as the MG 151 with MG shells but if you get an aircraft in your gunsight you can hit with 2 or 3 shells for every one Mg 151 hit! I was pleasantly surprised how well the 1B stands up to the G2. I managed to down 2 of them on UKD2 in a 1 vs 2 fight at 4000m.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/mynameisroland/boemherTemp.jpg