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View Full Version : You will want to check this out...[ACR potental spoilers]



Fairus60
07-21-2011, 02:39 PM
Some really intersting info here:

What we knew about AC Revelations is partially wrong (http://kotaku.com/5823431/what-i-thought-i-knew-about-assassins-creed-revelations-was-partially-wrong)

GunnarGunderson
07-21-2011, 02:42 PM
So if 16 has Altair and Ezio as common ancestors as well does that mean he's something like a cousin to Desmond? or is Ezio 16 and Desmond's earliest common ancestor like AC2 said

LightRey
07-21-2011, 02:46 PM
Only the first part is new to me. quite interesting fact though.

thornebrook
07-21-2011, 02:48 PM
That first item threw me for a loop. Thanks for sharing the link!

ThaWhistle
07-21-2011, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by BradKinn:
So if 16 has Altair and Ezio as common ancestors as well does that mean he's something like a cousin to Desmond? or is Ezio 16 and Desmond's earliest common ancestor like AC2 said

well, there isnt really such a thing as an earliest common ancestor, but there would be a last. to clarify further, any of ezios ancesotrs would also be common ancestors of 16 and desmond.

that first part is new as hell, but kind of a bummer, i would have rather come across that in a game and had my pants shocked off.

rileypoole1234
07-21-2011, 02:55 PM
They're still related to Desmond though. Just one's on his mothers side and ones on his fathers side if anybody is confused.

LightRey
07-21-2011, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by ThaWhistle:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BradKinn:
So if 16 has Altair and Ezio as common ancestors as well does that mean he's something like a cousin to Desmond? or is Ezio 16 and Desmond's earliest common ancestor like AC2 said

well, there isnt really such a thing as an earliest common ancestor, but there would be a last. to clarify further, any of ezios ancesotrs would also be common ancestors of 16 and desmond.

that first part is new as hell, but kind of a bummer, i would have rather come across that in a game and had my pants shocked off. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well apparently it's not such a big deal to them (anymore). So it's probably not that significant of a fact.

ThaWhistle
07-21-2011, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by rileypoole1234:
They're still related to Desmond though. Just one's on his mothers side and ones on his fathers side if anybody is confused.


I smell Ezio meeting one of Altair's descendants, and thats where the relation comes from. Atleast thats what makes the most sense for this whole scenario.

LightRey
07-21-2011, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by rileypoole1234:
They're still related to Desmond though. Just one's on his mothers side and ones on his fathers side if anybody is confused.
not necessarily. any of Desmond's ancestors between him and Ezio could be a common descendant of Ezio and Altair.

naran6142
07-21-2011, 03:15 PM
story wise i dont get why they would have altair and ezio not be related. it just makes things more complicated

so there is probably a good reason, hopefully we'll see in revelation

thornebrook
07-21-2011, 03:32 PM
To add to the original post, the following can be found in the comments:

pd771: I just assumed they all look the same because of how the Animus works. In the past, Altair and Ezio may have looked nothing like Desmond. When Desmond relives memories, parts of himself are woven into the memories.

Stephen Totilo (author): Yes, that's how it was explained to me. Altair and Ezio look like Desmond because Desmond is reliving their memories.

So Altair, Ezio, and Desmond may not even look remotely alike. I'm a little bummed by this because I thought that aspect of the game (Altair, Ezio, and Desmond having extremely similar features due to genetics) was really charming, but oh, well.

Fairus60
07-21-2011, 03:33 PM
What shocked me the most is... if they are not related, then WHY THE HELL ARE THEY IDENTICAL!?
We are on to big stuff here...
Forget it, just read the post above.
Does this mean that bughole-guy or whatever his name was, was right?

kriegerdesgottes
07-21-2011, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by naran6142:
story wise i dont get why they would have altair and ezio not be related. it just makes things more complicated

so there is probably a good reason, hopefully we'll see in revelation

I agree with this. It really just makes no sense being that they look exactly alike and I have a feeling they might be moving away from the original plan. I thought the house in Monterigionni was built by one of Altair's descendants who as we find out become the Auditores. Doesn't Mario say something about being related to Altair? I could be wrong on that.

k20ml
07-21-2011, 03:36 PM
Whaat?! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

I don't really care. It's not a big deal. BUT WAIT! There's probably an underlying reason why they said this! Maybe just maybe, this could be like a basis of the storyline. Of course. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

thornebrook
07-21-2011, 03:40 PM
What I don't get is why Ezio is having his own Bleeding Effect-like visions of Altair if they're not even related, but I guess we'll find out in Revelations.

Still bummed about them possibly not even looking remotely alike, but I'll get over it. Eventually.

Fairus60
07-21-2011, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by naran6142:
story wise i dont get why they would have altair and ezio not be related. it just makes things more complicated

so there is probably a good reason, hopefully we'll see in revelation

I agree with this. It really just makes no sense being that they look exactly alike and I have a feeling they might be moving away from the original plan. I thought the house in Monterigionni was built by one of Altair's descendants who as we find out become the Auditores. Doesn't Mario say something about being related to Altair? I could be wrong on that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, its quite contradicting. I remember them perfectly describing Altair as Ezioīs ancestor whenever they mentioned the Codex. They always sid something like "He will be looking for his ancestorīs Codex" or **** like that.
Besides that, what intrigues me now is the next thing:
Ezioīs bloodline has been filled with assassins, right? Then if he is not related to Altair, then WHO was his ancestor during Altairīs times, if the Masyaf Order was the original in the AC canon?

LightRey
07-21-2011, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by naran6142:
story wise i dont get why they would have altair and ezio not be related. it just makes things more complicated

so there is probably a good reason, hopefully we'll see in revelation

I agree with this. It really just makes no sense being that they look exactly alike and I have a feeling they might be moving away from the original plan. I thought the house in Monterigionni was built by one of Altair's descendants who as we find out become the Auditores. Doesn't Mario say something about being related to Altair? I could be wrong on that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
actually no. the villa was built by the great-grandfather of Mario and he was a student of Marco Polo, whose father I believe met Altair. He got the Codex from him.
Mario says nothing about being related to AltaÔr, just that he was an assassin like him.

nukelukespuke34
07-21-2011, 03:52 PM
Does anyone else smell retcon? Why would they suddenly not be related when throughout AC2 and Brotherhood there were indications that they were? If they weren't related, why does is there an Altair statue front and center in the crypt under the Auditore's house?

And lastly, who is this Darby McDevitt joker? I know Cory May isn't writing the series anymore and that Jeff Yolahem took over, so what happened to him?

Since they admitted that Revelations was originally Lost Legacy, seems to me like they're shoehorning twists into the story where they don't need to.

kriegerdesgottes
07-21-2011, 04:05 PM
Yeah I have to say I'm a bit disturbed by this whole thing but maybe it will end up not being a big deal. I just feel like Altair and Ezio were meant to be related. It was always one of the cooler aspects of the games that you were following Altair's bloodline down through Ezio and other unknown assassins to get to Desmond. Now this comes out all the sudden and it just feels like they made a quick decision to add a twist to the game.

LightRey
07-21-2011, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by nukelukespuke34:
Does anyone else smell retcon? Why would they suddenly not be related when throughout AC2 and Brotherhood there were indications that they were? If they weren't related, why does is there an Altair statue front and center in the crypt under the Auditore's house?

And lastly, who is this Darby McDevitt joker? I know Cory May isn't writing the series anymore and that Jeff Yolahem took over, so what happened to him?

Since they admitted that Revelations was originally Lost Legacy, seems to me like they're shoehorning twists into the story where they don't need to.
it's there because it was his armor that was sealed there and because he was the awesome assassin that made the order into what it was at that point.

ThaWhistle
07-21-2011, 04:13 PM
they have NEVER said altair and ezio are related, only that the two are related to Desmond. It is us who assumed that Ezio was Altair's descendent.

however, the thing about them looking the same because its desmond's doing is just lame.

swiftkinfe
07-21-2011, 04:18 PM
This twist just seemed really un-needed.

And yes the Desmond Animus look alike thing is REALLY REALLY REALLY lame!If that was the case so much for a female assassin unless they retcon that to.

LightRey
07-21-2011, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by ThaWhistle:
they have NEVER said altair and ezio are related, only that the two are related to Desmond. It is us who assumed that Ezio was Altair's descendent.

however, the thing about them looking the same because its desmond's doing is just lame.
Might be an animus thing, but it could also be something else that has to do with the whole Altair-Ezio-Desmond relation that's going to be revealed in ACR.

kriegerdesgottes
07-21-2011, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by V-rex1986:
This twist just seemed really un-needed.

And yes the Desmond Animus look alike thing is REALLY REALLY REALLY lame!If that was the case so much for a female assassin unless they retcon that to.

Speaking of that. Why didn't giovonni or maria or Ezio's other relatives look just like him if you go with that animus b.s. excuse.

ThaWhistle
07-21-2011, 04:23 PM
^because this is sloppy retconning.

itsamea-mario
07-21-2011, 04:32 PM
Bull ****.

DarbyMcDevitt
07-21-2011, 04:36 PM
Hello all,

Thank you, thank you for all your support and love. Come to Comic Con this weekend and ask us pointed questions!

"The Joker"

GunnarGunderson
07-21-2011, 04:46 PM
Who wants to bet Sophia Sorto is a descendant of Altair and when her and Ezio have a kid that's when the two bloodlines finally cross

swiftkinfe
07-21-2011, 04:47 PM
Ill take you up on that bet.Especially since this is filled with revelations no sense leaving that one open.

kriegerdesgottes
07-21-2011, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by BradKinn:
Who wants to bet Sophia Sorto is a descendant of Altair and when her and Ezio have a kid that's when the two bloodlines finally cross

I was just thinking that exact same thing. It would make me feel better but it still doesn't give a REAL excuse for why they look alike. And another thing. What about subject 16? subject 16 is a DNA match with all of them too so he would almost have to be a brother then.

LightRey
07-21-2011, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BradKinn:
Who wants to bet Sophia Sorto is a descendant of Altair and when her and Ezio have a kid that's when the two bloodlines finally cross

I was just thinking that exact same thing. It would make me feel better but it still doesn't give a REAL excuse for why they look alike. And another thing. What about subject 16? subject 16 is a DNA match with all of them too so he would almost have to be a brother then. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
you do realize there's like 500 years between Ezio and Desmond right? there's plenty of possible common ancestors for Desmond and 16 that could be related to both Altair and Ezio.

twenty_glyphs
07-21-2011, 05:19 PM
Holy crap! This is really not that big of a deal, but it's still throwing everyone for a huge loop, including me. We had all assumed that Ezio was a descendant of Altair, but I honestly don't think it was ever stated in the official universe. I always thought it was strange that Mario described Altair as a great Assassin, but never mentioned he was their ancestor. Even though they didn't know much about him, I would think the Auditores would at least know that.

I think a lot of the confusion came from the Auditore Family Crypt level and its story of how the Auditore name came to be. The account was written by Domencio, but we don't know what his original last name was. We all assumed that because it described where the Auditore name came from, it was showing us where the Ibn La'Ahad name went. The family crypt journal entries say they were written in 1296, which is about 100 years after Altair's two sons were born. When reading The Secret Crusade, I did think it was weird that they never hinted at Darim or Sef's family moving to Venice, which is where Domenico says he was raised.

I actually like this development a lot. I always thought it was a huge coincidence and too tidy that we would just follow a continuous family line in the Animus. The way DNA works, you would have so many different family branches in your genes that you could have ancestors spread across tons of places and time periods to explore. It also obviously explains why this was never mentioned in the games. For me, it makes the Codex clearer. It never made any sense to me why Altair would send it away with the Polos if his own descendant was going to end up with it. If you knew your descendant was going to need something, wouldn't you just hold onto it and keep passing it down to each generation's children?

This starts to explain why Desmond is so important. No matter when Altair and Ezio's family branches merge into Desmond's, this makes Desmond that much more unique. It's possible that Desmond may be the only person in the world with the genetic memories of all these important Assassins (including the one from AC3), especially if the family branches only merge with his parents.

As for Ezio experiencing the Bleeding Effect of Altair, that can obviously only happen after he lives Altair's memories from the seals. This partially explains why the seals were invented for the story, to allow Ezio to experience the memories of someone not related to him, and also to allow Desmond to see Altair's memories after he conceived Desmond's ancestor. Someone only descended from Ezio can see Altair's memories on the seals, but someone only descended from Altair can only see Altair's life up through his mid-twenties. It just continues to reinforce why Desmond is so important.

As for Subject 16, this doesn't contradict anything with him either. I still believe he is a descendant of Ezio like Desmond, but it's likely he's not a descendant of Altair. It's never been declared that Subject 16 has any relation to Altair, so this doesn't contradict that. It makes it more obvious why Abstergo needed Desmond for Altair's memories and weren't too concerned with Ezio's at the time. They could have learned about Altair from any Ezio memories that Subject 16 relived.

DarbyMcDevitt
07-21-2011, 06:01 PM
I like your style, twenty_glyphs.


Originally posted by twenty_glyphs:
Holy crap! This is really not that big of a deal, but it's still throwing everyone for a huge loop, including me. We had all assumed that Ezio was a descendant of Altair, but I honestly don't think it was ever stated in the official universe. I always thought it was strange that Mario described Altair as a great Assassin, but never mentioned he was their ancestor. Even though they didn't know much about him, I would think the Auditores would at least know that.

I think a lot of the confusion came from the Auditore Family Crypt level and its story of how the Auditore name came to be. The account was written by Domencio, but we don't know what his original last name was. We all assumed that because it described where the Auditore name came from, it was showing us where the Ibn La'Ahad name went. The family crypt journal entries say they were written in 1296, which is about 100 years after Altair's two sons were born. When reading The Secret Crusade, I did think it was weird that they never hinted at Darim or Sef's family moving to Venice, which is where Domenico says he was raised.

I actually like this development a lot. I always thought it was a huge coincidence and too tidy that we would just follow a continuous family line in the Animus. The way DNA works, you would have so many different family branches in your genes that you could have ancestors spread across tons of places and time periods to explore. It also obviously explains why this was never mentioned in the games. For me, it makes the Codex clearer. It never made any sense to me why Altair would send it away with the Polos if his own descendant was going to end up with it. If you knew your descendant was going to need something, wouldn't you just hold onto it and keep passing it down to each generation's children?

This starts to explain why Desmond is so important. No matter when Altair and Ezio's family branches merge into Desmond's, this makes Desmond that much more unique. It's possible that Desmond may be the only person in the world with the genetic memories of all these important Assassins (including the one from AC3), especially if the family branches only merge with his parents.

As for Ezio experiencing the Bleeding Effect of Altair, that can obviously only happen after he lives Altair's memories from the seals. This partially explains why the seals were invented for the story, to allow Ezio to experience the memories of someone not related to him, and also to allow Desmond to see Altair's memories after he conceived Desmond's ancestor. Someone only descended from Ezio can see Altair's memories on the seals, but someone only descended from Altair can only see Altair's life up through his mid-twenties. It just continues to reinforce why Desmond is so important.

As for Subject 16, this doesn't contradict anything with him either. I still believe he is a descendant of Ezio like Desmond, but it's likely he's not a descendant of Altair. It's never been declared that Subject 16 has any relation to Altair, so this doesn't contradict that. It makes it more obvious why Abstergo needed Desmond for Altair's memories and weren't too concerned with Ezio's at the time. They could have learned about Altair from any Ezio memories that Subject 16 relived.

graffitimysoul
07-21-2011, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by BradKinn:
Who wants to bet Sophia Sorto is a descendant of Altair and when her and Ezio have a kid that's when the two bloodlines finally cross

I was actually going to say that exact thing. Another point I wanted to make is that when they say the two aren't related, they could also mean that they're so distantly related, they technically/legally aren't related anymore.

And to the people wondering why they look almost exactly alike if they aren't related, someone else explained in this thread that the Animus sort of fuses Desmond with the ancestor. I think someone at Ubisoft said that as well.

Lastly, a female assassin is still possible. You just find a modern day female descendant and put her in the Animus. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SweetsMachineGun
07-21-2011, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by DarbyMcDevitt:
Hello all,

Thank you, thank you for all your support and love. Come to Comic Con this weekend and ask us pointed questions!

"The Joker"

Are you the real Darby? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

I have no means to come to comic con unfortunately. I am super curious about the upcoming addition to the storyline, though!

rupok2
07-21-2011, 06:33 PM
This thing has really thrown me in a loop. Wtf it makes no sense in alot of ways, I really hope this isn't a last minute change cause it could potentially ruin the story.

LightRey
07-21-2011, 06:48 PM
Some of you guys are really overreacting. this isn't a big thing. It barely has any influence on the story.

DarbyMcDevitt
07-21-2011, 06:58 PM
Yep. Longtime lurker. 2 years at least. And for the fellow who asked: I wrote the script for Bloodlines and the Story and Script for Discovery. So I have been part of the AC family for a while now. This is no retcon, guys. Its a long overdue clarification. Twenty_Glyphs' post above is a really smart guess at our intentions.

And with that, I'm going to stay quiet. Thanks for all your enthusiasm everyone.




Are you the real Darby? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

I have no means to come to comic con unfortunately. I am super curious about the upcoming addition to the storyline, though!

SweetsMachineGun
07-21-2011, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by DarbyMcDevitt:
Yep. Longtime lurker. 2 years at least. And for the fellow who asked: I wrote the script for Bloodlines and the Story and Script for Discovery. So I have been part of the AC family for a while now. This is no retcon, guys. Its a long overdue clarification. Twenty_Glyphs' post above is a really smart guess at our intentions.

And with that, I'm going to stay quiet. Thanks for all your enthusiasm everyone.


Awesome! It's neat that you all keep an eye on the community. Admittedly I was a little surprised with the news at first, but it makes sense. I'm just curious how Eagle Vision is distributed now.

Just and off-topic comment: I loved your characterization of Maria in Bloodlines. One of my favorite parts of that game was her witty commentary. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Really excited to see you're working on a game for the PS3/360.

Jakob4242
07-21-2011, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by twenty_glyphs:
Holy crap! This is really not that big of a deal, but it's still throwing everyone for a huge loop, including me. We had all assumed that Ezio was a descendant of Altair, but I honestly don't think it was ever stated in the official universe. I always thought it was strange that Mario described Altair as a great Assassin, but never mentioned he was their ancestor. Even though they didn't know much about him, I would think the Auditores would at least know that.

I think a lot of the confusion came from the Auditore Family Crypt level and its story of how the Auditore name came to be. The account was written by Domencio, but we don't know what his original last name was. We all assumed that because it described where the Auditore name came from, it was showing us where the Ibn La'Ahad name went. The family crypt journal entries say they were written in 1296, which is about 100 years after Altair's two sons were born. When reading The Secret Crusade, I did think it was weird that they never hinted at Darim or Sef's family moving to Venice, which is where Domenico says he was raised.

I actually like this development a lot. I always thought it was a huge coincidence and too tidy that we would just follow a continuous family line in the Animus. The way DNA works, you would have so many different family branches in your genes that you could have ancestors spread across tons of places and time periods to explore. It also obviously explains why this was never mentioned in the games. For me, it makes the Codex clearer. It never made any sense to me why Altair would send it away with the Polos if his own descendant was going to end up with it. If you knew your descendant was going to need something, wouldn't you just hold onto it and keep passing it down to each generation's children?

This starts to explain why Desmond is so important. No matter when Altair and Ezio's family branches merge into Desmond's, this makes Desmond that much more unique. It's possible that Desmond may be the only person in the world with the genetic memories of all these important Assassins (including the one from AC3), especially if the family branches only merge with his parents.

As for Ezio experiencing the Bleeding Effect of Altair, that can obviously only happen after he lives Altair's memories from the seals. This partially explains why the seals were invented for the story, to allow Ezio to experience the memories of someone not related to him, and also to allow Desmond to see Altair's memories after he conceived Desmond's ancestor. Someone only descended from Ezio can see Altair's memories on the seals, but someone only descended from Altair can only see Altair's life up through his mid-twenties. It just continues to reinforce why Desmond is so important.

As for Subject 16, this doesn't contradict anything with him either. I still believe he is a descendant of Ezio like Desmond, but it's likely he's not a descendant of Altair. It's never been declared that Subject 16 has any relation to Altair, so this doesn't contradict that. It makes it more obvious why Abstergo needed Desmond for Altair's memories and weren't too concerned with Ezio's at the time. They could have learned about Altair from any Ezio memories that Subject 16 relived.

Excellent assessment and a great read.

BK-110
07-21-2011, 08:34 PM
Seems weird to me that they aren't related. After all, they look pretty much the same...

Mic_92
07-21-2011, 09:24 PM
Wow, I remember a guy posting here several weeks ago saying they weren't related and we all shewed him up.

Whoever you are, I'm sorry.

Still, how in the **** does Ezio sees the Altair ghost then?

Dagio12
07-21-2011, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by twenty_glyphs:
Holy crap! This is really not that big of a deal, but it's still throwing everyone for a huge loop, including me. We had all assumed that Ezio was a descendant of Altair, but I honestly don't think it was ever stated in the official universe. I always thought it was strange that Mario described Altair as a great Assassin, but never mentioned he was their ancestor. Even though they didn't know much about him, I would think the Auditores would at least know that.

I think a lot of the confusion came from the Auditore Family Crypt level and its story of how the Auditore name came to be. The account was written by Domencio, but we don't know what his original last name was. We all assumed that because it described where the Auditore name came from, it was showing us where the Ibn La'Ahad name went. The family crypt journal entries say they were written in 1296, which is about 100 years after Altair's two sons were born. When reading The Secret Crusade, I did think it was weird that they never hinted at Darim or Sef's family moving to Venice, which is where Domenico says he was raised.

I actually like this development a lot. I always thought it was a huge coincidence and too tidy that we would just follow a continuous family line in the Animus. The way DNA works, you would have so many different family branches in your genes that you could have ancestors spread across tons of places and time periods to explore. It also obviously explains why this was never mentioned in the games. For me, it makes the Codex clearer. It never made any sense to me why Altair would send it away with the Polos if his own descendant was going to end up with it. If you knew your descendant was going to need something, wouldn't you just hold onto it and keep passing it down to each generation's children?

This starts to explain why Desmond is so important. No matter when Altair and Ezio's family branches merge into Desmond's, this makes Desmond that much more unique. It's possible that Desmond may be the only person in the world with the genetic memories of all these important Assassins (including the one from AC3), especially if the family branches only merge with his parents.

As for Ezio experiencing the Bleeding Effect of Altair, that can obviously only happen after he lives Altair's memories from the seals. This partially explains why the seals were invented for the story, to allow Ezio to experience the memories of someone not related to him, and also to allow Desmond to see Altair's memories after he conceived Desmond's ancestor. Someone only descended from Ezio can see Altair's memories on the seals, but someone only descended from Altair can only see Altair's life up through his mid-twenties. It just continues to reinforce why Desmond is so important.

As for Subject 16, this doesn't contradict anything with him either. I still believe he is a descendant of Ezio like Desmond, but it's likely he's not a descendant of Altair. It's never been declared that Subject 16 has any relation to Altair, so this doesn't contradict that. It makes it more obvious why Abstergo needed Desmond for Altair's memories and weren't too concerned with Ezio's at the time. They could have learned about Altair from any Ezio memories that Subject 16 relived.

I was gonna post something... But wow... Ur post is spot on with my thinking.. if not better.. good work sir... Good work.. hats off to u.

Ureh
07-21-2011, 09:56 PM
Maybe they went with this route because it was less expected. Whereas most of us (if not, all) just assumed they were related. Everytime the story surprises us it always does it in a way we least suspect.

So is it just coincidence that Ezio has the same scar as Desmond? Altair probably also has the same scar too and it sounds like all of them received their scars from some sort of conflict. And what about their appearance? Does the animus just slap Desmond's face onto his ancestors bodies or do they really have the same face?

twenty_glyphs
07-21-2011, 11:19 PM
It's funny how many comments on the Kotaku article are people that know the series well and swear up and down that the Auditore Family Crypt says Domenico Auditore was AltaÔr's descendant and that Mario tells Ezio AltaÔr is their ancestor. I've checked those out, and neither of those is true. I always assumed that was the case and that the story was at least hinting at the lineage, but like I said before, it always felt weird that no one in the games ever came out and said it. Mario first tells Ezio about AltaÔr in Sequence 3, Memory 5 ó "A Change of Plans". He talks about the Codex being written by an Assassin "like us" named AltaÔr. Then he shows Ezio the Sanctuary and mentions AltaÔr's armor, and once again no mention of him being family.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrFFCEXYf_E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTVe09NYSyQ

In the family crypt plaques, the only thing said about Domenico's family heritage is this quote when he finds out his father is an Assassin: "Removing his ring, he showed me a strange marking on his finger, explaining that our family came from an ancient order that protected and defended mankind." That's it, nothing hinting at AltaÔr other than the family belonging to the Assassin Order.

I also remember thinking it was odd that the product descriptions for Revelations have been saying that AltaÔr is Ezio's mentor. Obviously your ancestors can be mentors, but it sounded like a strange way to refer to one of Ezio's ancestors. Now we know why.

I once had a minor car accident and told my insurance agent that I knew the other car was red. When he interviewed that person, it turned out the vehicle was yellow. That person swore that my car was a different color than it really was. Our general accounts of the accident were otherwise the same.*The insurance agent said that this happens all the time where people can't remember details like that. Hard to realize that our memories often aren't as accurate as we think they are. I just hope that everyone comes to understand that our own minds were filling in the gaps and that this twist in the story is not a retcon at all.

Enrychan
07-22-2011, 12:10 AM
Sorry for lurking until now (and for my poor English, I'm Italian). http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
In the article about ACR on the GameInformer magazine they call Altair "Ezio's ancestor" more than once. So, if Altair and Ezio really aren't related, Ubisoft must pay more attention in communicating with journalists and fans. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Also, the Eagle Vision? If it doesn't come from having Altair's blood, then Ezio is a descendant of another "demigod". They are like elves: they are everywhere and very hard to die. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
(About them being so distantly related that they aren't related anymore, I guess we could say the same thing about Desmond...)

twenty_glyphs
07-22-2011, 01:13 AM
I remember Game Informer saying that AltaÔr was Ezio's ancestor in the Revelations article as well. This is likely just an example of the writer assuming they were related like all of us did and getting it wrong. Articles of this sort often get little things wrong. People make assumptions on some things or just misinterpret others and it gets written. Oftentimes after press events for games I'm following I'll see several articles written about the presentation, and often each one will have little things wrong and be slightly different from each other.

This same Kotaku article also says that when the Game Informer article said that all side missions were being replaced with random events, it was a misunderstanding. There will still be side missions similar to before, but there will also be new random missions that happen around you. So take that as just another detail that got misunderstood in what is otherwise a very good article.

Game Informer specifically says that the seals allow Altair's descendant to see the memories he's recorded on them. I always thought that made no sense, because what use is it to record a memory on some device that only your descendant can view? Especially when First Civilization technology would also be likely to just read the memories already in your DNA. I'm pretty sure no other article or interview talking about the seals mentioned the ancestor part, so take that as more evidence that the one place that did say it was wrong. It makes more sense to me that the seals let someone else with First Civilization blood see the memories recorded on them, though that's not confirmed.

As for Eagle Vision and the blood of the First Civilization being passed down, we have no idea how many people really have the abilities. Some assumed it was super special and rare and only in Desmond's family line. But we're starting to see it mentioned in more places, like Project Legacy where Giovanni Borgia has it, and Francesco Vecellio seems to have it as well since he tells Giovanni to use Eagle Vision in the first place. If it really comes from Adam and Eve, I would assume a good number of people today do have the potential for the abilities.

Ureh
07-22-2011, 02:10 AM
I always thought Giovanni had it because the Shroud gave it to him not because he was born with it. But it's possible that the powers were dormant and the Shroud just activated them. It also put a voice inside his head and allowed him to hear other devices talk.

I'm not sure if Viccelo had eagle vision. They never show him using it or even mentioning it. He had a whole chapter to himself but never used it once nor did Calderone mention if his pupil had it. Can't know for sure...


In AC2, Volpe's bio mentioned that there were rumors that his yellow eyes could see through walls. Not sure if this might have something to do with eagle sense or whatever. Or maybe it's just a rumor to explain why he was a skilled thief.

ShaneO7K
07-22-2011, 03:59 AM
I'm not implying that this is something that HAS to happen, but what if Sofia is related to Altair. So if they did have a child it would re-connect the bloodline.

Again not saying this is definetly something that will happen but it's an idea.

ace3001
07-22-2011, 04:02 AM
This doesn't make sense. Why does Altair look just like Ezio, then? And how does Ezio see Altair's "ghost" in the Revelations trailer? I assumed that was due to the bleeding effect, and now that can't be. This smells like a cheap quick retcon. -__-

iNEEDSmeINSIDES
07-22-2011, 05:15 AM
Wow kinda wasn't expecting that.
So at some point Desmond's lineage is the convergence of two distinct blood lines from part-TWCB descendants?

So at some point the Adam and Eve bloodlines separated and merge again or there were more ancestors that were part-TWCB than we thought?

Interesting to see what happens with the Adam/(find)Eve plot now.

CRUDFACE
07-22-2011, 05:57 AM
Damn it...that was a big thing for me, I mean for course you can't look like someone form all the way back. New Blood ins introduced, genes rndomized...it's just that I think they should've kept that scret until the game. Like I shouldn't have read that. Nothing before has said something directly related to the story.

Sorry, just a little mad right now.

I do think it's cool though, yah know? Like this is why Ezio didn't look much like his brother and sisters, notice the darker skin and WAY different facial features to his father.

-They've never once said he was related
-Means Sophia Sorto might be Altair's descendant
-Means Ezio got his hybrid blood from elsewhere
-We all assumed he was...because, well, yeah...gonna go hit a wall.

I do think it's a cool twist, but one I'd like to learn in game

-Darby Mcdevit is the story writer for assassin's creed revelations

thornebrook
07-22-2011, 05:59 AM
Considering how the Animus is now confirmed to work, and how Ezio will presumably be under no such similar compulsion when having visions of Altair, does this mean we'll get to see what Altair really looks like in Revelations? Because he can't carry Desmond's features anymore since Desmond will be looking at Altair through Ezio's memories, so Altair's face will be free of the Animus's influence.

Unless, of course, the seals work just about the same as the Animus in terms of laying the viewer's features on top of the one s/he's reliving the memory from, which I hope isn't the case.

I've always found it a little puzzling that Ubisoft's been pretty careful about hiding Altair's face in ACR's promotional material, so this new update definitely adds to some of the mystique.

On the other hand, I'd really have rather found out in-game that Ezio and Altair are not related, instead of having to read about it online. I feel cheated out of a potentially awesome in-game moment. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif That's just me, of course.

CRUDFACE
07-22-2011, 06:09 AM
Originally posted by thornebrook:
Considering how the Animus is now confirmed to work, and how Ezio will presumably be under no such similar compulsion when having visions of Altair, does this mean we'll get to see what Altair really looks like in Revelations? Because he can't carry Desmond's features anymore since Desmond will be looking at Altair through Ezio's memories, so Altair's face will be free of the Animus's influence.

Unless, of course, the seals work just about the same as the Animus in terms of laying the viewer's features on top of the one s/he's reliving the memory from, which I hope isn't the case.

I've always found it a little puzzling that Ubisoft's been pretty careful about hiding Altair's face in ACR's promotional material, so this new update definitely adds to some of the mystique.

On the other hand, I'd really have rather found out in-game that Ezio and Altair are not related, instead of having to read about it online. I feel cheated out of a potentially awesome in-game moment. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif That's just me, of course.

I feel for you man. Too me it made sense though, so yeah...at least the side missions are getting cooler

thornebrook
07-22-2011, 06:26 AM
Originally posted by t260z:
I feel for you man. Too me it made sense though, so yeah...at least the side missions are getting cooler

Haha, was just about to quote your previous reply and agree. It's like one massive spoiler being treated like a run-of-the-mill rumor. I'm mourning the in-game "HOLY--WTFING HECK WAS THAT, THAT IS AWESOME!" moment we'll never have over it.

OTOH, I'm remaining optimistic that there will be other amazing moments we can experience instead. (crosses fingers) Still eager to see the more morally-ambiguous elements in the new storyline.

Assassin_M
07-22-2011, 06:51 AM
Bloodlines People !!!!! you guys forgot that the Devs Explicitly and clearly said that it explains the missing Link in the Lineage of Altair, Ezio and Desmond. WTF UBI ????

LightRey
07-22-2011, 06:54 AM
Originally posted by Assassin_M:
Bloodlines People !!!!! you guys forgot that the Devs Explicitly and clearly said that it explains the missing Link in the Lineage of Altair, Ezio and Desmond. WTF UBI ????
the link. not the lineage.

Assassin_M
07-22-2011, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assassin_M:
Bloodlines People !!!!! you guys forgot that the Devs Explicitly and clearly said that it explains the missing Link in the Lineage of Altair, Ezio and Desmond. WTF UBI ????
the link. not the lineage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Alright I wont argue with you, but I`ll ask a simple question: What did Bloodlines explain ?

CRUDFACE
07-22-2011, 07:07 AM
Originally posted by Assassin_M:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assassin_M:
Bloodlines People !!!!! you guys forgot that the Devs Explicitly and clearly said that it explains the missing Link in the Lineage of Altair, Ezio and Desmond. WTF UBI ????
the link. not the lineage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Alright I wont argue with you, but I`ll ask a simple question: What did Bloodlines explain ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What Altair did with the apple
Why the hell he didn't kill the Maria all the times he should have, but then fell in love with her
how he became a leader and began a little on a diary of sorts...

Assassin_M
07-22-2011, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by t260z:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assassin_M:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assassin_M:
Bloodlines People !!!!! you guys forgot that the Devs Explicitly and clearly said that it explains the missing Link in the Lineage of Altair, Ezio and Desmond. WTF UBI ????
the link. not the lineage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Alright I wont argue with you, but I`ll ask a simple question: What did Bloodlines explain ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What Altair did with the apple
Why the hell he didn't kill the Maria all the times he should have, but then fell in love with her
how he became a leader and began a little on a diary of sorts... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What does this have to do with the Link of Altair and Ezio ?

CRUDFACE
07-22-2011, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by Assassin_M:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by t260z:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assassin_M:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assassin_M:
Bloodlines People !!!!! you guys forgot that the Devs Explicitly and clearly said that it explains the missing Link in the Lineage of Altair, Ezio and Desmond. WTF UBI ????
the link. not the lineage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Alright I wont argue with you, but I`ll ask a simple question: What did Bloodlines explain ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What Altair did with the apple
Why the hell he didn't kill the Maria all the times he should have, but then fell in love with her
how he became a leader and began a little on a diary of sorts... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What does this have to do with the Link of Altair and Ezio ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What? You asked what bloodlines explains and I told yah, lol.

Assassin_M
07-22-2011, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by t260z:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assassin_M:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by t260z:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assassin_M:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assassin_M:
Bloodlines People !!!!! you guys forgot that the Devs Explicitly and clearly said that it explains the missing Link in the Lineage of Altair, Ezio and Desmond. WTF UBI ????
the link. not the lineage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Alright I wont argue with you, but I`ll ask a simple question: What did Bloodlines explain ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What Altair did with the apple
Why the hell he didn't kill the Maria all the times he should have, but then fell in love with her
how he became a leader and began a little on a diary of sorts... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What does this have to do with the Link of Altair and Ezio ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What? You asked what bloodlines explains and I told yah, lol. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I meant what did it explain in terms of the Link between ALtair and Ezio ?

LightRey
07-22-2011, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by Assassin_M:
I meant what did it explain in terms of the Link between ALtair and Ezio ?
hmmm. guess no link. I think you thought bloodlines implied a genealogical link between them, but it's just about Altair's family.

Assassin_M
07-22-2011, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assassin_M:
I meant what did it explain in terms of the Link between ALtair and Ezio ?
hmmm. guess no link. I think you thought bloodlines implied a genealogical link between them, but it's just about Altair's family. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Itís the only game that explains the link between Assassinís Creed and Assassinís Creed 2. If you want to understand how Ezio is born" quoted from blast magazine said by a dev cant remember his name

twenty_glyphs
07-22-2011, 09:15 AM
The main link between Altair and Ezio is the Codex. Altair began writing it in Bloodlines and eventually sent it out into the world with the Polos, then Ezio finished finding all the pages that his father had begun to find in AC2. Even if they were related, the Codex is still their main link because Ezio has no other knowledge of Altair so far. The Codex is so important because it tells the story of the Prophet, and found its hands into Ezio's hands, thus helping to fulfill its own prophecy and delivering a message from the First Civilization to Desmond. Also think about if Bloodlines was meant to show Altair's lineage linking to Ezio, why does it only show who Altair married? There's still a lot of generations between the two of them after Maria, even if they were related.

As for Altair's face, I think it will stay the same in all representations. It would get way too confusing if they started changing characters' faces depending on how you're viewing them. There was a trailer for Assassin's Creed: Embers, a CGI animated short that will come with special editions of Revelations, on X-Play last night. The Embers story is about Ezio, and even though the CGI is a new medium, his face looks basically the same. And he still has the scar.

RENEGADEsoup
07-22-2011, 09:24 AM
@twenty_glyphs I applaud you Sir ^_^

Eh. It's not that big a deal. Guys, don't start freaking out whenever Ubisoft shatters our assumptions... this is only the beginning. Revelations is probably going to provide actual canon for a lot of other things so far we've had to assume, after all. It'd be naive to think we could have assumed everything correctly so far, so inevitably some things we thought we knew are going to have to change as we get more and more information. Embrace it.

Ubisoft evidently didn't think is was that big a deal either, otherwise they would have revealed it to us during the game.

Anyway.... in some ways, it actually makes more sense now. After all since 16's related to Ezio and if Ezio was related to Altair, then why on earth would Abstergo have needed Desmond in the first place since they'd already have access to someone with Altair's memories? I'd always just assumed 16 had snapped or something before they got around to Altair's memories, but it looks like we have an actual answer now. And I'm cool with that C:

Still trying to decide what this means for the Eagle-Sense-is-a-form-of-the-Bleeding-Effect theories, though.

LightRey
07-22-2011, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by RENEGADEsoup:
@twenty_glyphs I applaud you Sir ^_^

Eh. It's not that big a deal. Guys, don't start freaking out whenever Ubisoft shatter our assumptions... this is only the beginning. Revelations is probably going to provide actual canon for a lot of other things so far we've had to assume, after all. It'd be naive to think we could have assumed everything correctly so far, so inevitably some thing are going to have to change as we get more and more information.

Ubisoft evidently didn't think is was that big a deal either, otherwise they would have revealed it to us during the game.

Anyway.... in some ways, it actually makes more sense now. After all since 16's related to Ezio and if Ezio was related to Altair, then why on earth would they have needed Desmond in the first place since they'd already have access to someone with Altair's memories? I'd always just assumed 16 had snapped or something before they got around to Altair's memories, but it looks like we have an actual answer now.

Still trying to decide what this means for the Eagle-Sense-is-a-form-of-the-Bleeding-Effect theories, though.
and I applaud you. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

twenty_glyphs
07-22-2011, 10:20 AM
As for the Bleeding Effect, I interpret it as no matter whose memories you relive or how you do it, the human mind gets so engrossed in the life of that person that the mind starts to get confused by having so many "minds" living inside of it. Whether you relive your own ancestors' memories, or the memories of someone else as recorded on these First Civilization seals, your mind would start to take on that person's memories.

When it's your own genetic ancestors, it seems to also unlock the ability for you to access memories of that ancestor that are in your own DNA that you never accessed through the Animus. Desmond's Bleeding Effect has let him access memories of Altair and Ezio that he never saw in the Animus, that must be stored in his own DNA. We don't know for sure if anyone else has done this. It's possible Subject 16 was able to access memories outside of the Animus (and the strategy guide postulates this may have happened), but we don't know. It seems that he had relived so many different ancestors' memories that he started getting confused about who he was and what century it was.

So the Sixth Sense may simply be the ability to access your own DNA to find specific memories and knowledge of your ancestors at will, without going crazy. As for the seals, we still know so little about them that it's hard to speculate. It's possible that the Pieces of Eden are able to read memories off of DNA that comes into contact with them and store them. Perhaps someone with the Sixth Sense could then touch a Piece of Eden and interpret all these memories of other individuals without going crazy? Maybe even hold them all in their mind going forward.

EmmaBemma
07-22-2011, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BradKinn:
Who wants to bet Sophia Sorto is a descendant of Altair and when her and Ezio have a kid that's when the two bloodlines finally cross

I was just thinking that exact same thing. It would make me feel better but it still doesn't give a REAL excuse for why they look alike. And another thing. What about subject 16? subject 16 is a DNA match with all of them too so he would almost have to be a brother then. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
you do realize there's like 500 years between Ezio and Desmond right? there's plenty of possible common ancestors for Desmond and 16 that could be related to both Altair and Ezio. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
As both families were strongly tied into the Assassins Order, I wouldn't be surprised if their lines cross over multiple times over the centuries. I do like the idea of witnessing the merging of the two bloodlines though, either with Ezio in Revelations or in AC3 with another ancestor [of Desmond's].

twenty_glyphs
07-22-2011, 11:42 AM
It seems that the seals in Revelations are a device that allows anyone to record a memory on it for anyone else to relive. It sounds like it's completely separate from DNA, other than the seals likely using the recorder's DNA to access the memories and record them onto the seal. It seems the seals may have been created for the story because Ezio isn't descended from Altair, as a way to let him relive memories of someone he's not related to.

EDIT: It seems the original post this was a reply to has been deleted.

rileypoole1234
07-22-2011, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by twenty_glyphs:
Holy crap! This is really not that big of a deal, but it's still throwing everyone for a huge loop, including me. We had all assumed that Ezio was a descendant of Altair, but I honestly don't think it was ever stated in the official universe. I always thought it was strange that Mario described Altair as a great Assassin, but never mentioned he was their ancestor. Even though they didn't know much about him, I would think the Auditores would at least know that.

I think a lot of the confusion came from the Auditore Family Crypt level and its story of how the Auditore name came to be. The account was written by Domencio, but we don't know what his original last name was. We all assumed that because it described where the Auditore name came from, it was showing us where the Ibn La'Ahad name went. The family crypt journal entries say they were written in 1296, which is about 100 years after Altair's two sons were born. When reading The Secret Crusade, I did think it was weird that they never hinted at Darim or Sef's family moving to Venice, which is where Domenico says he was raised.

I actually like this development a lot. I always thought it was a huge coincidence and too tidy that we would just follow a continuous family line in the Animus. The way DNA works, you would have so many different family branches in your genes that you could have ancestors spread across tons of places and time periods to explore. It also obviously explains why this was never mentioned in the games. For me, it makes the Codex clearer. It never made any sense to me why Altair would send it away with the Polos if his own descendant was going to end up with it. If you knew your descendant was going to need something, wouldn't you just hold onto it and keep passing it down to each generation's children?

This starts to explain why Desmond is so important. No matter when Altair and Ezio's family branches merge into Desmond's, this makes Desmond that much more unique. It's possible that Desmond may be the only person in the world with the genetic memories of all these important Assassins (including the one from AC3), especially if the family branches only merge with his parents.

As for Ezio experiencing the Bleeding Effect of Altair, that can obviously only happen after he lives Altair's memories from the seals. This partially explains why the seals were invented for the story, to allow Ezio to experience the memories of someone not related to him, and also to allow Desmond to see Altair's memories after he conceived Desmond's ancestor. Someone only descended from Ezio can see Altair's memories on the seals, but someone only descended from Altair can only see Altair's life up through his mid-twenties. It just continues to reinforce why Desmond is so important.

As for Subject 16, this doesn't contradict anything with him either. I still believe he is a descendant of Ezio like Desmond, but it's likely he's not a descendant of Altair. It's never been declared that Subject 16 has any relation to Altair, so this doesn't contradict that. It makes it more obvious why Abstergo needed Desmond for Altair's memories and weren't too concerned with Ezio's at the time. They could have learned about Altair from any Ezio memories that Subject 16 relived.

Do you work for Ubisoft? Hahah that sounds bloody spot on. Bravo good sir.

naran6142
07-22-2011, 12:04 PM
I think the reason that desmond looks the same as altair and ezio is mainly because they didn't want to make to different looking characters. you dont see altair's face much anyway. that probably the main reason

and quick question does anyone know if AC2, ACB and ACR with written in parallel to eachother cause that would make all of this make more sense

Ureh
07-22-2011, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by RENEGADEsoup:
@twenty_glyphs I applaud you Sir ^_^

Eh. It's not that big a deal. Guys, don't start freaking out whenever Ubisoft shatters our assumptions... this is only the beginning. Revelations is probably going to provide actual canon for a lot of other things so far we've had to assume, after all. It'd be naive to think we could have assumed everything correctly so far, so inevitably some things we thought we knew are going to have to change as we get more and more information. Embrace it.

Ubisoft evidently didn't think is was that big a deal either, otherwise they would have revealed it to us during the game.

Anyway.... in some ways, it actually makes more sense now. After all since 16's related to Ezio and if Ezio was related to Altair, then why on earth would Abstergo have needed Desmond in the first place since they'd already have access to someone with Altair's memories? I'd always just assumed 16 had snapped or something before they got around to Altair's memories, but it looks like we have an actual answer now. And I'm cool with that C:

Still trying to decide what this means for the Eagle-Sense-is-a-form-of-the-Bleeding-Effect theories, though.

That's wierd. If they couldn't view Altair's and/or Ezio's memories with Subject 16, then what did they need him for? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Keighvin
07-22-2011, 01:15 PM
They could use him to see Ezio's memories, just not Altair's memories.

LightRey
07-22-2011, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Ureh:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RENEGADEsoup:
@twenty_glyphs I applaud you Sir ^_^

Eh. It's not that big a deal. Guys, don't start freaking out whenever Ubisoft shatters our assumptions... this is only the beginning. Revelations is probably going to provide actual canon for a lot of other things so far we've had to assume, after all. It'd be naive to think we could have assumed everything correctly so far, so inevitably some things we thought we knew are going to have to change as we get more and more information. Embrace it.

Ubisoft evidently didn't think is was that big a deal either, otherwise they would have revealed it to us during the game.

Anyway.... in some ways, it actually makes more sense now. After all since 16's related to Ezio and if Ezio was related to Altair, then why on earth would Abstergo have needed Desmond in the first place since they'd already have access to someone with Altair's memories? I'd always just assumed 16 had snapped or something before they got around to Altair's memories, but it looks like we have an actual answer now. And I'm cool with that C:

Still trying to decide what this means for the Eagle-Sense-is-a-form-of-the-Bleeding-Effect theories, though.

That's wierd. If they couldn't view Altair's and/or Ezio's memories with Subject 16, then what did they need him for? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
'sides. they used him for a bunch of ancestors.

InfectedNation
07-22-2011, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by twenty_glyphs:
As for the Bleeding Effect, I interpret it as no matter whose memories you relive or how you do it, the human mind gets so engrossed in the life of that person that the mind starts to get confused by having so many "minds" living inside of it. Whether you relive your own ancestors' memories, or the memories of someone else as recorded on these First Civilization seals, your mind would start to take on that person's memories.

When it's your own genetic ancestors, it seems to also unlock the ability for you to access memories of that ancestor that are in your own DNA that you never accessed through the Animus. Desmond's Bleeding Effect has let him access memories of Altair and Ezio that he never saw in the Animus, that must be stored in his own DNA. We don't know for sure if anyone else has done this. It's possible Subject 16 was able to access memories outside of the Animus (and the strategy guide postulates this may have happened), but we don't know. It seems that he had relived so many different ancestors' memories that he started getting confused about who he was and what century it was.

So the Sixth Sense may simply be the ability to access your own DNA to find specific memories and knowledge of your ancestors at will, without going crazy. As for the seals, we still know so little about them that it's hard to speculate. It's possible that the Pieces of Eden are able to read memories off of DNA that comes into contact with them and store them. Perhaps someone with the Sixth Sense could then touch a Piece of Eden and interpret all these memories of other individuals without going crazy? Maybe even hold them all in their mind going forward.

EDIT- I'M Probably wrong, but here I go:

Okay so this has been bothering me all day - how we witnessed Ezio seeing visions of altair (like the bleeding effect), even though they are not related.
Perhaps it could be something to do with both the Sixth sense, and the fact that both of them spent a significant amount of time with the Apple? Perhaps the Apple can perform a much weaker version of the seals function, perhaps it links to Altairs (last?) codex page, where he questions what will become of his conscience once he dies, and then goes to take one final look at the apple.
I'm not at all creating a far-fetched cheesy theory that Altair lives inside the apple, but maybe parts of his conscience have been... preserved?

*Possible minor spoilers*
Also in The Secret Crusade, I seem to remember the Apple showing things to Altair, but never speaking... whereas in the Brotherhood novel, it seems to have a voice too, it tells Ezio things?

Anyway there's my lot - no hate please, if I've got something wrong I don't wanna hear any "omg u f***ken idiot everybody knows (blahhhhblahblah) so shut up and stop posting"

Just stirring up more discussion http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

CRUDFACE
07-22-2011, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by naran6142:
I think the reason that desmond looks the same as altair and ezio is mainly because they didn't want to make to different looking characters. you dont see altair's face much anyway. that probably the main reason

and quick question does anyone know if AC2, ACB and ACR with written in parallel to eachother cause that would make all of this make more sense

What, it's not that hard to just come up with a new face. Altair had a different one in the psp assassin games and this way, the animus shows off its hardware by overshadowing your features on the ancestor in question. It makes sense, at least to me.

ACR was supposedly written at the same time as ACB, but not to sure if during AC2.

No biggie.

Edit: why is Ezio seeing Altair in everything then? Yeah, I said it was because of using the ancient styled disc shaped animi which hold memories. But if that's true, then why did he see Altair when he was about to perform a leap of faith? That was a scene from the first game wasn't it? And according to the book and cannon, he'd have to have gotten the seals later on.

Do the seals make a recording your entire life instead of only when you hold them? And his whole life is instead split into five parts?

thornebrook
07-22-2011, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by twenty_glyphs:
As for Altair's face, I think it will stay the same in all representations. It would get way too confusing if they started changing characters' faces depending on how you're viewing them. There was a trailer for Assassin's Creed: Embers, a CGI animated short that will come with special editions of Revelations, on X-Play last night. The Embers story is about Ezio, and even though the CGI is a new medium, his face looks basically the same. And he still has the scar.

...But that doesn't make sense, if he still looks the same. I'd actually be a little ticked off at that. :/ Viewing your ancestor's memories through the Animus and the Animus overlaying your own features on him is one thing, but being a third party viewer to your ancestor's memories of someone else, and that someone else still having the same features as Desmond? Desmond hasn't overlaid his features on anyone else third-hand, on anyone else he's met in the Animus via his ancestor (Antonio, Volpe, Machiavelli, etc). At least, there has been no evidence of this so far. To start doing so now would just be freaking weird.

And declaring that Ezio and Altair aren't related is already confusing, I would like a bit more follow-through after that, haha.

TBH, I don't really care much for the off-shoot productions' representations of the characters, mostly because they're usually made by people outside of the major games, and with greater artistic license. What I do care about is what is shown in the major platform games, that's where I expect the most cohesion and consistency.

Also, while I'm disappointed that Ezio and Altair not being related was revealed outside of the game, I'm liking all the sparks and discussions it's generated so far. Lots of traction outside of these forums as well.

CRUDFACE
07-22-2011, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by thornebrook:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by twenty_glyphs:
As for Altair's face, I think it will stay the same in all representations. It would get way too confusing if they started changing characters' faces depending on how you're viewing them. There was a trailer for Assassin's Creed: Embers, a CGI animated short that will come with special editions of Revelations, on X-Play last night. The Embers story is about Ezio, and even though the CGI is a new medium, his face looks basically the same. And he still has the scar.

...But that doesn't make sense, if he still looks the same. I'd actually be a little ticked off at that. :/ Viewing your ancestor's memories through the Animus and the Animus overlaying your own features on him is one thing, but being a third party viewer to your ancestor's memories of someone else, and that someone else still having the same features as Desmond? Desmond hasn't overlaid his features on anyone else third-hand, on anyone else he's met in the Animus via his ancestor (Antonio, Volpe, Machiavelli, etc). At least, there has been no evidence of this so far. To start doing so now would just be freaking weird.

And declaring that Ezio and Altair aren't related is already confusing, I would like a bit more follow-through after that, haha.

TBH, I don't really care much for the off-shoot productions' representations of the characters, mostly because they're usually made by people outside of the major games, and with greater artistic license. What I do care about is what is shown in the major platform games, that's where I expect the most cohesion and consistency.

Also, while I'm disappointed that Ezio and Altair not being related was revealed outside of the game, I'm liking all the sparks and discussions it's generated so far. Lots of traction outside of these forums as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, Ezio's face and such should be different. At the same time, I think Ubisoft want to keep the familiarity of the character so people late in the game//franchise aren't confused and stuff.

Did you wonder why Desmond's features aren't overlaid on other people besides his ancestors?

Dagio12
07-22-2011, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by t260z:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thornebrook:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by twenty_glyphs:
As for Altair's face, I think it will stay the same in all representations. It would get way too confusing if they started changing characters' faces depending on how you're viewing them. There was a trailer for Assassin's Creed: Embers, a CGI animated short that will come with special editions of Revelations, on X-Play last night. The Embers story is about Ezio, and even though the CGI is a new medium, his face looks basically the same. And he still has the scar.

...But that doesn't make sense, if he still looks the same. I'd actually be a little ticked off at that. :/ Viewing your ancestor's memories through the Animus and the Animus overlaying your own features on him is one thing, but being a third party viewer to your ancestor's memories of someone else, and that someone else still having the same features as Desmond? Desmond hasn't overlaid his features on anyone else third-hand, on anyone else he's met in the Animus via his ancestor (Antonio, Volpe, Machiavelli, etc). At least, there has been no evidence of this so far. To start doing so now would just be freaking weird.

And declaring that Ezio and Altair aren't related is already confusing, I would like a bit more follow-through after that, haha.

TBH, I don't really care much for the off-shoot productions' representations of the characters, mostly because they're usually made by people outside of the major games, and with greater artistic license. What I do care about is what is shown in the major platform games, that's where I expect the most cohesion and consistency.

Also, while I'm disappointed that Ezio and Altair not being related was revealed outside of the game, I'm liking all the sparks and discussions it's generated so far. Lots of traction outside of these forums as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, Ezio's face and such should be different. At the same time, I think Ubisoft want to keep the familiarity of the character so people late in the game//franchise aren't confused and stuff.

Did you wonder why Desmond's features aren't overlaid on other people besides his ancestors? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I always just assumed that since Desmond is "reliving" his ancestors memories.. that it makes sense that he would project a lot of his own features onto the ancestors that he is portraying ... but as far as other people/characters go, he is seeing them through Ezio/Altairs eyes and therefor sees them the way they actually looked through Ezio/Altairs eyes.

Dieinthedark
07-22-2011, 02:47 PM
So Desmond can relive the memories of Altair and Ezio because he's related to both of them. But how then is ezio going to relive the memories of Altair if they aren't related?

Ureh
07-22-2011, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by Keighvin:
They could use him to see Ezio's memories, just not Altair's memories.

But didn't Ezio view Altair's memories through the seals? which means 16 can see a memory through a memory.

SixKeys
07-22-2011, 02:59 PM
I don't get why everyone is so hung up on the fact that Desmond, Ezio and AltaÔr all look the same. To reference the Back to the Future movies, don't any of you find it odd that ALL of Marty McFly's distant ancestors and future relatives (even his daughter) look exactly like him? It's just a storytelling gimmick, a way to make the connection clear to the viewer and make it easy for them to sympathize with the character's ancestors.

I've never believed that AltaÔr and Ezio looked exactly like Desmond in real life. That's just absurd, blood relatives or not. I can buy the idea that it's mostly Desmond's own mental projection through the Animus. The scar on Ezio's lip is nothing meaningful, it was another storytelling gimmick, a tongue-in-cheek nod to the fact that all three characters have the same scar on their lip (originally Desmond and AltaÔr probably only shared the trait because the developers were too lazy to make another model for a character whose face was hardly ever shown). There's no point in trying to somehow "prove" that they're all related because scars don't get passed down genetically. The scar exists to symbolize their connection throughout the ages, same as the rest of their faces.

swiftkinfe
07-22-2011, 03:15 PM
Desmond's facial projections make no sense.What purpose would that ever serve?

Desmond being more comfortable? That is the very point of going to an earlier memory to synchronize better. It would serve no purpose.

RzaRecta357
07-22-2011, 03:37 PM
Seems like a cheap excuse to throw a random race into it for the next protagonist if you ask me although it makes more sense like the above poster said.

But the face thing I'm not believing until it's explained in game. Daniel has the same face as his ancestor yet he never actually went into the Animus.

twenty_glyphs
07-22-2011, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by InfectedNation:
Okay so this has been bothering me all day - how we witnessed Ezio seeing visions of altair (like the bleeding effect), even though they are not related.
Perhaps it could be something to do with both the Sixth sense, and the fact that both of them spent a significant amount of time with the Apple? Perhaps the Apple can perform a much weaker version of the seals function, perhaps it links to Altairs (last?) codex page, where he questions what will become of his conscience once he dies, and then goes to take one final look at the apple.
I'm not at all creating a far-fetched cheesy theory that Altair lives inside the apple, but maybe parts of his conscience have been... preserved?

*Possible minor spoilers*
Also in The Secret Crusade, I seem to remember the Apple showing things to Altair, but never speaking... whereas in the Brotherhood novel, it seems to have a voice too, it tells Ezio things?

Anyway there's my lot - no hate please, if I've got something wrong I don't wanna hear any "omg u f***ken idiot everybody knows (blahhhhblahblah) so shut up and stop posting"

Just stirring up more discussion http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Some of us have been thinking along these lines for a while. In The Fall comic book, Daniel Cross' ancestor Nikolai touches the Staff of Eden while it's hooked up to electrical devices and sees this huge vision of all kinds of stuff. Some of the first words of dialogue you see are "Always the fighter, just like your father", which is what Rodrigo Borgia says to Ezio when they're about to fight in the Sistine Chapel at the end of AC2. Some have speculated that somehow the Russian Staff is the same as the Papal Staff, having changed appearance, and that it recorded the memory of that event and Nikolai Orelov saw it again later on. Incidentally, the comic also shows the dialogue from The Truth video during this vision.

Juno said that Desmond's DNA was "communing" with the Apple of Eden when he was simply holding it. Part of the theory is that all Pieces of Eden record events they come into contact with by interacting with the genetic memories of whoever is holding them. They could even be networked to each other and all keep track of a humongous database of memories/information about the past. Imagine how all that data could make the Pieces of Eden have so much knowledge of the world. I don't know how this would lead to visions of the future, but that's another discussion.

One thing I think we all need to slow down on is the vision of Altair that Ezio sees in the Revelations trailer. This trailer's exact events may never come to pass. Perhaps Ezio does start to see Altair through the Bleeding Effect, but it's actually later on in the story and not exactly what's shown in the trailer. Still, since the trailer does show the Bleeding Effect visions, it seems that it will come into play somehow. I just wouldn't take it literally that Ezio will see Altair at Masyaf exactly like the trailer.

As for Abstergo being able to see Altair's memories through Subject 16 if 16 is descended from Ezio and not Altair, they would likely only be able to see the 5 memories that Altair leaves for Ezio. It's likely that none of those memories is the target memory of the map the Apple showed Altair. In one interview, Alex Amancio said the Altair memories would show him from his late teens/early twenties through when he was about 90. Altair was 26 in the first game, so I have a feeling we'll see one memory of Altair from 5 or so years before the first game, then 4 of his memories spread out over the rest of his life, ending when he looks into the Apple one last time when he's 90 and sees whatever he sees. I think after that, he spends his last 2 years building the hidden library in Masyaf.

AdmiralPerry
07-22-2011, 07:31 PM
Wow, a lot of discussion about this. A little jarring at first, but once you stop and think about it, it makes sense. The fandom just made an assumption, which has now been proven to be wrong. No biggie.

twenty_glyphs, you and I are thinking a lot alike. It's scary. And I think you're right about the POE's serving like an archive and can be linked together on their own little network. Those little pieces of metal do much more than just tell the future and drive people insane, it seems!

Also, to touch on a few things others said earlier...
1.) It's likely this might be revealed to us in the game anyway--just because they let the cat out of the bag now doesn't mean they can't still include it in the game. For all we know, they could be setting up some sort of important plot point by doing this. Perhaps the nexus that Desmond has to find is related to Altair and Ezio's bloodlines somehow coming together. The nexus, after all, is something that connects the three together.

2.) Abstergo did indeed use Subject 16 for more than one ancestor. He mentions it in AC2's glyph puzzles (can't remember which one). He seems to be remembering things from different time periods, such as the American Civil War. He even asks what century it is. It's likely Abstergo used 16 to help them decide where to go next--as in, Desmond. There could have been something in one of his ancestor's memories that hinted to the map we see at the end of AC1.

3.) Someone asked how Ezio can relive Altair's memories if they aren't related. Have you played Project Legacy on Facebook? The whole thing relies on Abstergo test subjects (the players) reliving memories of people not related to them (I assume) via an Animus-like device called the Data Dump Scanner (DDS). Of course, not much attention has been given to Project Legacy, so no one's really sure how the DDS works exactly. It's highly unlikely that the subject is related to all of the people whose memories we relive in the DDS. I am thinking that the seals kind of act more like the DDS, in that Altair's memories are recorded on them, and can be accessed once the user has the seal in his or her hands. Though whether or not the seals respond only to those who are descendants of TWCB remains to be seen. Seems like that is the case, that any average Joe can't just randomly find the seal and see these memories. I am still debating the "canonicity" of the novels by Oliver Bowden, but I seem to remember The Secret Crusade saying something about the seals being left behind for only certain people to find. It's not specified who, just that the seals hold an important message for someone (whom we now know is Ezio, and likewise, Desmond).

Also, just a general tidbit about the POE's: Remember that there is more than one of the same "type," particularly for the Apple and the Staff. It makes sense, though, that they could network together, like twenty_glyphs said. We know their powers can be combined together (ie. Apple and Staff, as seen in AC2). Also, considering that they are obviously advanced pieces of technology from TWCB, the fact that they can send messages or knowledge or whatever you want to call it is not all that surprising. Also, I don't think we know everything the POE's are capable of.

*has funny mental image of members of TWCB texting each other via POEs*

CRUDFACE
07-22-2011, 07:37 PM
For the guy above me, I don't think Subject 16 had those five memories from the seals since Altair only had two sons and that was when he was relatively young. He'll have some obviously, but not all. And for AdmiralPerry, Lucy says them to and I think S16 is just suffering from the bleeding effect in the glyph puzzles.


And the POES have already been shown to act as a catalogue of sorts in the very first game.
Just throwing that in there



Originally posted by V-rex1986:
Desmond's facial projections make no sense.What purpose would that ever serve?

Desmond being more comfortable? That is the very point of going to an earlier memory to synchronize better. It would serve no purpose.

Okay, you see someone doing something, right? You wished you did that. So, what's the first thing you do? Most if not all, imagine themselves as that person, doing what they did. If you imagine them independently of yourself then the illusion kind of fades. Maybe it's not the animus doing it. instead it's the mind working on a subconscious level, easing you into shoes you've seen and want't to fill in.

I actually like that they don't look the same. I look nothing like my father, sister, and brother and looking down the line, I look totally different. As if a middle eastern born man would look like a Florentine noble.

Yay, Assassin's Creed making sense!

Fairus60
07-22-2011, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by AdmiralPerry:
Wow, a lot of discussion about this. A little jarring at first, but once you stop and think about it, it makes sense. The fandom just made an assumption, which has now been proven to be wrong. No biggie.

twenty_glyphs, you and I are thinking a lot alike. It's scary. And I think you're right about the POE's serving like an archive and can be linked together on their own little network. Those little pieces of metal do much more than just tell the future and drive people insane, it seems!

Also, to touch on a few things others said earlier...
1.) It's likely this might be revealed to us in the game anyway--just because they let the cat out of the bag now doesn't mean they can't still include it in the game. For all we know, they could be setting up some sort of important plot point by doing this. Perhaps the nexus that Desmond has to find is related to Altair and Ezio's bloodlines somehow coming together. The nexus, after all, is something that connects the three together.

2.) Abstergo did indeed use Subject 16 for more than one ancestor. He mentions it in AC2's glyph puzzles (can't remember which one). He seems to be remembering things from different time periods, such as the American Civil War. He even asks what century it is. It's likely Abstergo used 16 to help them decide where to go next--as in, Desmond. There could have been something in one of his ancestor's memories that hinted to the map we see at the end of AC1.

3.) Someone asked how Ezio can relive Altair's memories if they aren't related. Have you played Project Legacy on Facebook? The whole thing relies on Abstergo test subjects (the players) reliving memories of people not related to them (I assume) via an Animus-like device called the Data Dump Scanner (DDS). Of course, not much attention has been given to Project Legacy, so no one's really sure how the DDS works exactly. It's highly unlikely that the subject is related to all of the people whose memories we relive in the DDS. I am thinking that the seals kind of act more like the DDS, in that Altair's memories are recorded on them, and can be accessed once the user has the seal in his or her hands. Though whether or not the seals respond only to those who are descendants of TWCB remains to be seen. Seems like that is the case, that any average Joe can't just randomly find the seal and see these memories. I am still debating the "canonicity" of the novels by Oliver Bowden, but I seem to remember The Secret Crusade saying something about the seals being left behind for only certain people to find. It's not specified who, just that the seals hold an important message for someone (whom we now know is Ezio, and likewise, Desmond).

Also, just a general tidbit about the POE's: Remember that there is more than one of the same "type," particularly for the Apple and the Staff. It makes sense, though, that they could network together, like twenty_glyphs said. We know their powers can be combined together (ie. Apple and Staff, as seen in AC2). Also, considering that they are obviously advanced pieces of technology from TWCB, the fact that they can send messages or knowledge or whatever you want to call it is not all that surprising. Also, I don't think we know everything the POE's are capable of.

*has funny mental image of members of TWCB texting each other via POEs*
Maybe I didnt undestand some of what you said, but are you kind of suggesting that Subject 16 IS the nexus? It would be a nice plot twist, but I cant see any evidence of it, besides the "Desmond-Ezio-Subject 16 blood relation"

CRUDFACE
07-22-2011, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by Fairus60:

Maybe I didnt undestand some of what you said, but are you kind of suggesting that Subject 16 IS the nexus? It would be a nice plot twist, but I cant see any evidence of it, besides the "Desmond-Ezio-Subject 16 blood relation"

He's just saying that the bloodline's converging might be the Nexus, not S16. They just overused him trying to look for information in history.

Fairus60
07-22-2011, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by t260z:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fairus60:

Maybe I didnt undestand some of what you said, but are you kind of suggesting that Subject 16 IS the nexus? It would be a nice plot twist, but I cant see any evidence of it, besides the "Desmond-Ezio-Subject 16 blood relation"

He's just saying that the bloodline's converging might be the Nexus, not S16. They just overused him trying to look for information in history. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks for the clarification

CRUDFACE
07-22-2011, 09:55 PM
What kind of missions do you guys think will go down that require your brotherhood to be with you?


Originally posted by Fairus60:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by t260z:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fairus60:

Maybe I didnt undestand some of what you said, but are you kind of suggesting that Subject 16 IS the nexus? It would be a nice plot twist, but I cant see any evidence of it, besides the "Desmond-Ezio-Subject 16 blood relation"

He's just saying that the bloodline's converging might be the Nexus, not S16. They just overused him trying to look for information in history. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks for the clarification </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Anytime dude

AdmiralPerry
07-22-2011, 10:09 PM
Just to confirm, I was thinking that the nexus Desmond has to find is where Altair and Ezio's bloodlines meet. Though, that was already said. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As for Subject 16, that was loosely related information--someone earlier asked what was the point of Abstergo using Subject 16 in their experiments, and that point on that particular subject was my thoughts about it. Should've made it clearer.

twenty_glyphs
07-22-2011, 10:28 PM
@AdmiralPerry: I'm so glad that you brought up Project Legacy. With so much to keep up with, I had forgotten about a topic on the Project Legacy board a while back about where the memories for the DDS in Project Legacy were even coming from. First of all, obviously you're not reliving ancestors' memories since there are so many various people you see in the memories that can't all be related. Secondly, a lot of the memories happen seemingly just as someone is dying, or after we think they had their last child, which doesn't work for genetic memory being passed on. One theory is that the memories are coming from people who have come into contact with the Shroud, but not everyone in the memories seems to have done so. So there is already some precedent for reliving memories that aren't from your own DNA, though the mechanism hasn't been explained at all.

LightRey
07-22-2011, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by twenty_glyphs:
@AdmiralPerry: I'm so glad that you brought up Project Legacy. With so much to keep up with, I had forgotten about a topic on the Project Legacy board a while back about where the memories for the DDS in Project Legacy were even coming from. First of all, obviously you're not reliving ancestors' memories since there are so many various people you see in the memories that can't all be related. Secondly, a lot of the memories happen seemingly just as someone is dying, or after we think they had their last child, which doesn't work for genetic memory being passed on. One theory is that the memories are coming from people who have come into contact with the Shroud, but not everyone in the memories seems to have done so. So there is already some precedent for reliving memories that aren't from your own DNA, though the mechanism hasn't been explained at all.
Good points. Except for the part about those people having to be related to view their genetic memory. They don't need to be, they just need to have a common descendant.

twenty_glyphs
07-22-2011, 11:27 PM
Yeah, thanks for clarifying that I didn't mean the people had to be related to each other, which started this whole topic to begin with. Just that in Project Legacy, you're clearly not reliving your own ancestors' memories, since the thousands of users Abstergo is recruiting all view the same memories.

xsatanicjokerx
07-23-2011, 03:28 AM
How the hell do they both have eagle vision then? From my understanding I though only the descendents of Adam and Eve had that. and before some1 says that one of them could be from eve and the other from adam. they had children together not with other people.

SixKeys
07-23-2011, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by xsatanicjokerx:
How the hell do they both have eagle vision then? From my understanding I though only the descendents of Adam and Eve had that. and before some1 says that one of them could be from eve and the other from adam. they had children together not with other people.

And you know this because...? As far as I'm aware the only time we've seen Adam and Eve was in the short Truth clip in AC2 where they were running away together. Who's to say what they did before or after the escape?

CRUDFACE
07-23-2011, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by xsatanicjokerx:
How the hell do they both have eagle vision then? From my understanding I though only the descendents of Adam and Eve had that. and before some1 says that one of them could be from eve and the other from adam. they had children together not with other people.

Even if that's true, don't you think the bloodline would have spread out by then? For instance, Giovanni Borgia in Project Legacy has eagle vision, but he's not related to Ezio and inherited it instead from Perotto Calderon. and Adam and eve were so far back, I'm not sure if that can make them that close.

RzaRecta357
07-23-2011, 08:57 AM
Them all having the same face to me and the same walk was and IS a big thing to me.

I mean, Ezio clearly got the scar they all have right? Daniel never got into an animus.

I'm thinking this guy said some stuff but itsn't 100% clear on it or they just never fully explained it.

I'm sticking with that and the fact they look the same just because. I like that more :P.

twenty_glyphs
07-23-2011, 09:31 AM
Yes, Daniel did get into an Animus. That's the whole reason he was having Bleeding Effect visions throughout The Fall series. When he was kidnapped as a child, he was put into the Animus and also somehow programmed with a hidden command to infiltrate the Assassin Order and kill the Mentor. We don't know how much Abstergo found out from his time in the Animus or what he relived for what purpose. When he went back to Abstergo as an adult, he was put back into an Animus so he could be sedated and comfortable because he wanted to be back in.

Sparty2020
07-23-2011, 09:34 AM
Wow. Not even related. I have only one tip to Ubisoft: if this is no way impacts the story in any way aside from being "fun trivia" then they should all STFU and pretend that Ezio is Altair's descendants. I know that sounds rude but my immediate reaction upon reading that was fury and I thought Kotaku posted a joke topic. Not everyone is as forgiving as the people who frequent the OFFICIAL threads. Even the members at Kotaku are angry and think of this as a "retcon" which may or may not be what it is.

By saying or even implying that Ezio and Altair aren't related Ubi threw a wrench in everybody's speculation for the past 4 years. Every piece of fan fiction, fan art, fansite; every RPG site, thread boards, and fun talk with your friends are labeled wrong. And angering the fanbase of a popular franchise is a surefire way to kill the series.

I'll say it again: if this holds no consequences in the story and is just "fun trivia" then Ubi should retract that statement, label it as "we made a mistake", and let people continue to think what they want to think. If it does play an important part in the story then Ubi better find a way of explaining it in depth and with no room for misinterpretation. They better explain both Altair's and Ezio's family tree, why Ezio inherited both Altair's armor AND personal weapon, and exactly how many people possess Eagle Vision. There are "good" plot twists and there are "bad" plot twists. This one falls dangerously close to the bad side

kriegerdesgottes
07-23-2011, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by Sparty2020:
Wow. Not even related. I have only one tip to Ubisoft: if this is no way impacts the story in any way aside from being "fun trivia" then they should all STFU and pretend that Ezio is Altair's descendants. I know that sounds rude but my immediate reaction upon reading that was fury and I thought Kotaku posted a joke topic. Not everyone is as forgiving as the people who frequent the OFFICIAL threads. Even the members at Kotaku are angry and think of this as a "retcon" which may or may not be what it is.

By saying or even implying that Ezio and Altair aren't related Ubi threw a wrench in everybody's speculation for the past 4 years. Every piece of fan fiction, fan art, fansite; every RPG site, thread boards, and fun talk with your friends are labeled wrong. And angering the fanbase of a popular franchise is a surefire way to kill the series.

I'll say it again: if this holds no consequences in the story and is just "fun trivia" then Ubi should retract that statement, label it as "we made a mistake", and let people continue to think what they want to think. If it does play an important part in the story then Ubi better find a way of explaining it in depth and with no room for misinterpretation. They better explain both Altair's and Ezio's family tree, why Ezio inherited both Altair's armor AND personal weapon, and exactly how many people possess Eagle Vision. There are "good" plot twists and there are "bad" plot twists. This one falls dangerously close to the bad side

This^ I totally agree.

samward
07-23-2011, 09:51 AM
I have not read threw all 6 pages of the thread... so sorry in advance, if what I am about to say has already been said or covered.

I think this is all a bunch of malarkey! Ubi have made it VERY clear that it will be Ezio viewing Altair's memories, not Desmond. So Desmond happens to be viewing Ezio's life and gets to see Altair's memories only because Ezio viewed them on his own.

Now with that said... They have also made it very clear that in order to experience another persons memories you must be related. This make seance, after all you would not have the right DNA anchor to sync into a memory that was not your ancestors.

But it does not mean that a person who is not related can not view a memory of a subject he or she is not related too. By view I mean, they will watch the memory like a movie. The only way I can think of this being possible is by watching back the memories the animus records.

So either Ezio is related to Altair and will experience his memories or he is not and these stones will just let him watch them from afar.

Other then that it makes no sense...

samward
07-23-2011, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sparty2020:
Wow. Not even related. I have only one tip to Ubisoft: if this is no way impacts the story in any way aside from being "fun trivia" then they should all STFU and pretend that Ezio is Altair's descendants. I know that sounds rude but my immediate reaction upon reading that was fury and I thought Kotaku posted a joke topic. Not everyone is as forgiving as the people who frequent the OFFICIAL threads. Even the members at Kotaku are angry and think of this as a "retcon" which may or may not be what it is.

By saying or even implying that Ezio and Altair aren't related Ubi threw a wrench in everybody's speculation for the past 4 years. Every piece of fan fiction, fan art, fansite; every RPG site, thread boards, and fun talk with your friends are labeled wrong. And angering the fanbase of a popular franchise is a surefire way to kill the series.

I'll say it again: if this holds no consequences in the story and is just "fun trivia" then Ubi should retract that statement, label it as "we made a mistake", and let people continue to think what they want to think. If it does play an important part in the story then Ubi better find a way of explaining it in depth and with no room for misinterpretation. They better explain both Altair's and Ezio's family tree, why Ezio inherited both Altair's armor AND personal weapon, and exactly how many people possess Eagle Vision. There are "good" plot twists and there are "bad" plot twists. This one falls dangerously close to the bad side

This^ I totally agree. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree as well!!! Said much more eloquently then I have attempted...

blazefp
07-23-2011, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Sparty2020:
I'll say it again: if this holds no consequences in the story and is just "fun trivia" then Ubi should retract that statement, label it as "we made a mistake"

"If this holds no consequences in the story and is just fun trivia" then why should they get back in what they've said?



and let people continue to think what they want to think.

Are you a templar? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif
Why the hell should they let us continue thinking what WE wanna think? It's their game, we just play it and THEN rate it.



If it does play an important part in the story then Ubi better find a way of explaining it in depth and with no room for misinterpretation.


They are masters on that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif




They better explain both Altair's and Ezio's family tree, why Ezio inherited both Altair's armor AND personal weapon, and exactly how many people possess Eagle Vision. There are "good" plot twists and there are "bad" plot twists. This one falls dangerously close to the bad side


Ezio gets the armor because Marco Polo retrieves it and the codex from Masyaf and gave it to Dante. He was killed but the codex and I suppose the armor too, were rescued by Domenico (AltaÔr descendent) and brought to Monteriggioni. Domenico took the name Auditore and started constructing the vila. Now here is where Ubi messed up. Mario's said that the villa was build by his great great grandfather and Mario is Ezio's uncle so Domenico is Ezio's 3xgreat grandfather. So after all they are related. WTF?

You can see it all here (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Altair) in AltaÔr's later life

Sparty2020
07-23-2011, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by blazefp:
"If this holds no consequences in the story and is just fun trivia" then why should they get back in what they've said? Because this is the sort of thing that doesn't just surprise people but actually makes them angry. This alienates the fanbase. I would risk a venture that only the most dedicated 5% of the fanbase visit and posts on these forums. If this is the sort of thing that frustrates even 30% of the other fans enough to quit the series then there will be no series.


Are you a templar? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif
Why the hell should they let us continue thinking what WE wanna think? It's their game, we just play it and THEN rate it. It's their game, and they can tell the story however they like. But it's the fans who rate it and its us who pay for it. If the fans rate the story as "convoluted" or "filled with retcons" then how many people do you think will continue buying it?


They are masters on that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

*cough*Animus, DDS, Genetics,Pieces of Eden*cough*


Ezio gets the armor because Marco Polo retrieves it and the codex from Masyaf and gave it to Dante. He was killed but the codex and I suppose the armor too, were rescued by Domenico (AltaÔr descendent) and brought to Monteriggioni. Domenico took the name Auditore and started constructing the vila. Now here is where Ubi messed up. Mario's said that the villa was build by his great great grandfather and Mario is Ezio's uncle so Domenico is Ezio's 3xgreat grandfather. So after all they are related. WTF?

You can see it all here (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Altair) in AltaÔr's later life Now you're assuming :P That is assumptions unsupported by ingame lore. I'm not gonna go poking holes in your theory since this game is based around speculation, but the biggest oddity is how the Auditore's would gain possession of Altair's weapon and armor rather than Altair's own personal children/grandchildren

LightRey
07-23-2011, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by blazefp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sparty2020:
I'll say it again: if this holds no consequences in the story and is just "fun trivia" then Ubi should retract that statement, label it as "we made a mistake"

"If this holds no consequences in the story and is just fun trivia" then why should they get back in what they've said?



and let people continue to think what they want to think.

Are you a templar? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif
Why the hell should they let us continue thinking what WE wanna think? It's their game, we just play it and THEN rate it.



If it does play an important part in the story then Ubi better find a way of explaining it in depth and with no room for misinterpretation.


They are masters on that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif




They better explain both Altair's and Ezio's family tree, why Ezio inherited both Altair's armor AND personal weapon, and exactly how many people possess Eagle Vision. There are "good" plot twists and there are "bad" plot twists. This one falls dangerously close to the bad side


Ezio gets the armor because Marco Polo retrieves it and the codex from Masyaf and gave it to Dante. He was killed but the codex and I suppose the armor too, were rescued by Domenico (AltaÔr descendent) and brought to Monteriggioni. Domenico took the name Auditore and started constructing the vila. Now here is where Ubi messed up. Mario's said that the villa was build by his great great grandfather and Mario is Ezio's uncle so Domenico is Ezio's 3xgreat grandfather. So after all they are related. WTF?

You can see it all here (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Altair) in AltaÔr's later life </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Domenico wasn't a descendant of AltaÔr.

CRUDFACE
07-23-2011, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by blazefp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sparty2020:
I'll say it again: if this holds no consequences in the story and is just "fun trivia" then Ubi should retract that statement, label it as "we made a mistake"

"If this holds no consequences in the story and is just fun trivia" then why should they get back in what they've said?



and let people continue to think what they want to think.

Are you a templar? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif
Why the hell should they let us continue thinking what WE wanna think? It's their game, we just play it and THEN rate it.



If it does play an important part in the story then Ubi better find a way of explaining it in depth and with no room for misinterpretation.


They are masters on that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif




They better explain both Altair's and Ezio's family tree, why Ezio inherited both Altair's armor AND personal weapon, and exactly how many people possess Eagle Vision. There are "good" plot twists and there are "bad" plot twists. This one falls dangerously close to the bad side


Ezio gets the armor because Marco Polo retrieves it and the codex from Masyaf and gave it to Dante. He was killed but the codex and I suppose the armor too, were rescued by Domenico (AltaÔr descendent) and brought to Monteriggioni. Domenico took the name Auditore and started constructing the vila. Now here is where Ubi messed up. Mario's said that the villa was build by his great great grandfather and Mario is Ezio's uncle so Domenico is Ezio's 3xgreat grandfather. So after all they are related. WTF?

You can see it all here (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Altair) in AltaÔr's later life </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Domenico wasn't a descendant of AltaÔr. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He definitely wasn't, they never said he was and I'm not understanding all the hate that's being shot at Ubisoft.

You all assumed it was true without them saying or confirming any of it. And then you tell them to shut up and pretend they ever said it? What kind of story telling is that? It adds depth to the whole family tree aspect. It's not making a mistake if that's the way it always was.

Maybe it's just me, but I laughed over it, thought it was like the funniest thing ever. Especially with all the time traveling fanfics where somehow Altair and Ezio are still alive and they always go, "the blood is strong" or "they all really do look the same." It wouldn't be the first time a fic is wrong. Ac is a growing story like any good one is, you learn from it the more you play it.

And honestly, I couldn't deal with it if they started retconning crap again.

Sparty2020
07-23-2011, 12:04 PM
AC2 has been announced in 2008 I believe. I believe one of the marketing features that were pushed forward in terms of gameplay is "uncover the Codex of your ancestor Altair." In fact, if you want you can google all the interviews about AC2 and ACB and even ACR if you count the Game Informer article (even though it isn't an interview) you will notice that whenever Altair and Ezio are mentioned together Altair is labeled as Ezio's ancestors. As these come directly from the words of developers it says that it wasn't just the fans who thought that the two were related. No, I'm not going to google stuff when one can easily do it yourself or just go to gamespot.com/ign.com

Like I said, about only the 5% most dedicated people come and post in these forums but you can't build a franchise around those 5%. People are angry. They are furious. Go to kotaku, IGN, Gamespot, or any of the dozens of fansites and fan threads. The other 90+% are furious and that isn't how you establish a franchise. You like this revelation? Congratulations. Judging by the feedback, unless this particular bit of information plays an important role in the upcoming game you can count yourself in the minority.

This isn't me b*tching or whining. It's me trying to convince Ubi to avoid making a mistake. If I could I would have convinced Kojima to not have Raiden in MGS2. A fantastic game in a fantastic revolutionary series nearly ruined because Kojima thought that it'd be fun to tell his fans something and then "change" it at the last second. In truth nothing had changed and the fans merely speculated to themselves about Snake being the protagonist, but that one "retcon" nearly destroyed the MGS franchise and MGS 2 is still included in dozens of "Top Five Worst..." lists to this day for something minor and of no significant consequence.

SixKeys
07-23-2011, 12:25 PM
I'm still not seeing the big deal here. Some people have already proposed good, sound theories that seemingly would explain all the unclarities without having Ezio and AltaÔr be related. If their theories are correct, then the story is still solid and this information has introduced no new plot holes. If the official in-game explanation makes no sense (think midichlorians), then Ubi messed up. Go and write a fan fic where you come up with a better alternative. Why are people so furious about this?

If this is just about having your personal fan fics ruined because Ubi decided to clarify something instead of supporting your own theories, then too bad. It happens. Either accept the change or go on pretending your own canon theory is the correct one. People who are so butthurt about this need more content in their lives.

blazefp
07-23-2011, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
Domenico wasn't a descendant of AltaÔr.


Quote from assassinswikia:
Dante was also escorted by his apprentice, a descendant of AltaÔr's named Domenico, who had only recently been made aware of his Assassin heritage. As the pirates attacked, Domenico broke apart the Codex and hid it from the pirates, though he was too late to save the life of his Master and his wife

now I'm really confused. Did assassins wikia messed up here?



Originally posted by t260z:
He definitely wasn't, they never said he was and I'm not understanding all the hate that's being shot at Ubisoft.

You all assumed it was true without them saying or confirming any of it. And then you tell them to shut up and pretend they ever said it? What kind of story telling is that? It adds depth to the whole family tree aspect. It's not making a mistake if that's the way it always was.

Maybe it's just me, but I laughed over it, thought it was like the funniest thing ever. Especially with all the time traveling fanfics where somehow Altair and Ezio are still alive and they always go, "the blood is strong" or "they all really do look the same." It wouldn't be the first time a fic is wrong. Ac is a growing story like any good one is, you learn from it the more you play it.

And honestly, I couldn't deal with it if they started retconning crap again.

I'm with you in these matter. It's no big deal but it would be good if Ubi cleared this all.

CRUDFACE
07-23-2011, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by Sparty2020:
AC2 has been announced in 2008 I believe. I believe one of the marketing features that were pushed forward in terms of gameplay is "uncover the Codex of your ancestor Altair." In fact, if you want you can google all the interviews about AC2 and ACB and even ACR if you count the Game Informer article (even though it isn't an interview) you will notice that whenever Altair and Ezio are mentioned together Altair is labeled as Ezio's ancestors. As these come directly from the words of developers it says that it wasn't just the fans who thought that the two were related. No, I'm not going to google stuff when one can easily do it yourself or just go to gamespot.com/ign.com

Like I said, about only the 5% most dedicated people come and post in these forums but you can't build a franchise around those 5%. People are angry. They are furious. Go to kotaku, IGN, Gamespot, or any of the dozens of fansites and fan threads. The other 90+% are furious and that isn't how you establish a franchise. You like this revelation? Congratulations. Judging by the feedback, unless this particular bit of information plays an important role in the upcoming game you can count yourself in the minority.

This isn't me b*tching or whining. It's me trying to convince Ubi to avoid making a mistake. If I could I would have convinced Kojima to not have Raiden in MGS2. A fantastic game in a fantastic revolutionary series nearly ruined because Kojima thought that it'd be fun to tell his fans something and then "change" it at the last second. In truth nothing had changed and the fans merely speculated to themselves about Snake being the protagonist, but that one "retcon" nearly destroyed the MGS franchise and MGS 2 is still included in dozens of "Top Five Worst..." lists to this day for something minor and of no significant consequence.

Yeah, I did uncover the codex of my ancestor seeing as the game takes place from Desmond's perspective, that makes since. Lol, believe me dude, the amount of fans who visit the forums is like under 1%. When it comes to articles it is done through the writers of the magazine, not the game, being written through them and they assumed just that. I've seen some of those forums where they talk about them being related.

Most of them are just confused about the concept of two family branches that haven't met up yet and a little angry that they said it over an interview like it didn't matter instead of letting us find out in game. Take how allot of people through the family crypt was the same as the room of important assassins. Or that eagle vision is only in Altair's genes.

It reminded me of when I was replying over a thread with someone...who was it? Umh, Lightrey? I think. And one time he said I just assumed based off of what came before me. Well, that's what happened here. But don't tell them to take something back like that, seriously it's childish. If it's real, complain that it's real, but don't ignore it. If it isn't then it isn't and Darby McDevit was just f-ing with us, lol

But the way you're going off about it, I doubt anything I say will change your mind.

reini03
07-23-2011, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by blazefp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Quote from assassinswikia:
Dante was also escorted by his apprentice, a descendant of AltaÔr's named Domenico, who had only recently been made aware of his Assassin heritage. As the pirates attacked, Domenico broke apart the Codex and hid it from the pirates, though he was too late to save the life of his Master and his wife

now I'm really confused. Did assassins wikia messed up here? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most likely, yes. The only two times Domenico was mentioned was in the Sanctuary by Mario and in the Auditore Family Crypt. Neither said anything about Domenico's ancestors.

blazefp
07-23-2011, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by MagnifyHope:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by blazefp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Quote from assassinswikia:
Dante was also escorted by his apprentice, a descendant of AltaÔr's named Domenico, who had only recently been made aware of his Assassin heritage. As the pirates attacked, Domenico broke apart the Codex and hid it from the pirates, though he was too late to save the life of his Master and his wife

now I'm really confused. Did assassins wikia messed up here? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most likely, yes. The only two times Domenico was mentioned was in the Sanctuary by Mario and in the Auditore Family Crypt. Neither said anything about Domenico's ancestors. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So where did they get that? If wikia messed up then Ubi didn't http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

sry 90+% assassin's creed players that are angry with Ubi. I guess you don't actually have any reason to complain

LightRey
07-23-2011, 01:29 PM
The wikia messes up all the time. Even now it's filled with countless errors.

twenty_glyphs
07-23-2011, 01:31 PM
You can't take everything that's said on the wiki as truth, even when it's well-written and seems well researched. Logical assumptions will often get through and written into articles, and sometimes those assumptions are wrong. The same thing happens with magazine articles and such. I'm not sure if it's still there, but one of the pages on the wiki says that Juno says she requires a sacrifice before forcing Desmond to do that bad thing. It was on the wiki for months, when no such thing was ever said.

I respect everyone's opinion and right to be mad. What I don't like is people assuming this is some huge change just for the heck of it, when we see at least in-game material has never confirmed what everyone thought. We can go back and look at interviews with developers and see if they ever said Ezio and AltaÔr were related, but this really does seem like a clarification like Darby said it was. If you're going to be mad because your assumptions and guesses about the Assassin's Creed story were wrong, just wait. There are going to be much bigger twists in the story that invalidate tons of things you thought were true. Good storytelling involves letting people's assumptions be right some of the time, and throwing them curveballs at other times.

blazefp
07-23-2011, 03:12 PM
ok ok got it. I learn with mistakes. I thought wikia was done by decent guys but I guess I was wrong. I also guess wikia stands for assassins creed (in this case) as wikipedia stands for encyclopedia then right?

acjake
07-23-2011, 03:20 PM
I'm a bit confused. Can someone please explain how Ezio is able to relive Altair's memories in AC:R if they are not ancestors? Because the whole idea is Desmond is reliving Ezio...then Ezio finds seals (which he did in his lifetime) to relive Altair's memories, or am I completely wrong? I would appreciate if someone explained. Maybe someone should ask Gabe this Ezio/Altair question in the next Q&A.

dchil279
07-23-2011, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by samward:
I have not read threw all 6 pages of the thread... so sorry in advance, if what I am about to say has already been said or covered.

I think this is all a bunch of malarkey! Ubi have made it VERY clear that it will be Ezio viewing Altair's memories, not Desmond. So Desmond happens to be viewing Ezio's life and gets to see Altair's memories only because Ezio viewed them on his own.

Now with that said... They have also made it very clear that in order to experience another persons memories you must be related. This make seance, after all you would not have the right DNA anchor to sync into a memory that was not your ancestors.

But it does not mean that a person who is not related can not view a memory of a subject he or she is not related too. By view I mean, they will watch the memory like a movie. The only way I can think of this being possible is by watching back the memories the animus records.

So either Ezio is related to Altair and will experience his memories or he is not and these stones will just let him watch them from afar.

Other then that it makes no sense...
The seals have nothing to do with genetic memory... let me clarify:

The Animus- A machine that allows you to re-live memories that have passed down to you through genetics.

The Seals- A (stone?) that has memories locked inside of it.

Desmond uses the Animus to relive Ezio's memories (which are in his DNA, and Ezio re-lives Altair's memories which are in the seals.

LightRey
07-23-2011, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by acjake:
I'm a bit confused. Can someone please explain how Ezio is able to relive Altair's memories in AC:R if they are not ancestors? Because the whole idea is Desmond is reliving Ezio...then Ezio finds seals (which he did in his lifetime) to relive Altair's memories, or am I completely wrong? I would appreciate if someone explained. Maybe someone should ask Gabe this Ezio/Altair question in the next Q&A.
it has something to do with those seals. I'm guessing AltaÔr stored some of his memories in them.

RzaRecta357
07-23-2011, 04:21 PM
To the person talking about MGS2. After the initial happening....most people that are true fans of the series believe that story wise...2 and 3 are the best. 2 being the best. 3 being the most important. 4 was utter garbage, but good gameplay.


Also, about Daniel being in the animus. They stuck him in there as a kid..but what's to say that's why he's having the bleeding effect. I figured it was the drug withdrawl that caused that.

Even if it wasn't.

Who said this in the interview anyway? I'm still thinking they'll change there mind about it.

Ezio gets the same scar and literally ages....why give him Desmonds face if they have to draw a bunch of face models anyway? Why give him the scar? Patrice made a big deal out of that scar thing in a video too.

Daniel, looked just like his ancestor but his ancestor was all clean no piercings and had a giant mustache.

So what? The animus decides to create him with the same face but retain the mustache? Sounds kind of stupid to me.

I hope they change that or if it just doesn't come up in games i'll pretend I never heard it.

The ancestor thing makes sense. This way they can go from italian (Obviously his kids will be italian with this new girl being introduced from florence or whatever.)

I've always said Desmond looks like a french Canadian (Partly because he was modeled after one.) But I remember actually being proud of his look and such an awesome game coming out of Canada. So I'm thinking it's an excuse for them to drastically shift races again like they did from Altair to Ezio.

Also, like another person said...That could make Desmond the key...The only one that can actually relive all these memories.

Seeing as everything that Ezio and Altair and the rest of the mentors knew....because lost in the year 2000. Now Desmond has to retrieve it in his own mind and become the Mentor of 2012.

CRUDFACE
07-23-2011, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by RzaRecta357:


Also, about Daniel being in the animus. They stuck him in there as a kid..but what's to say that's why he's having the bleeding effect. I figured it was the drug withdrawl that caused that.

Even if it wasn't.

Who said this in the interview anyway? I'm still thinking they'll change there mind about it.

Ezio gets the same scar and literally ages....why give him Desmonds face if they have to draw a bunch of face models anyway? Why give him the scar? Patrice made a big deal out of that scar thing in a video too.

Daniel, looked just like his ancestor but his ancestor was all clean no piercings and had a giant mustache.

So what? The animus decides to create him with the same face but retain the mustache? Sounds kind of stupid to me.

I hope they change that or if it just doesn't come up in games i'll pretend I never heard it.



No, it's more like you just overshadow the face, but you don't take it out completely. Like Ezio's facial hair. That was probably on the real Ezio for sure, but Desmond's face in all it's characteristics will have his element in it alongside Ezio's. I already explained the whole thing about stepping into somebody's shoes, read it if you want to or not, whatever. Basically, long explanation short: to believe you are doing something to the fullest extent, you put yourself in there.

They...including me say the Animus brought him the bleeding effect is because of these reasons:

-He was taking the pills in the first place because of the hallucinations, meaning his was suffering from it long before he accidentally killed his girlfriend. Common drug withdrawal doesn't cause that and it's sounds like to much of a "It just happened to" moment

-They used an artificial piece of Eden or some kind of brain washing tool based off of TWCB technology. and the closer you get to a TWCB that does stuff like that to you at a young age does cause bleeding effect cases, such as Giovanni Borgia

That seems about right.

CRUDFACE
07-23-2011, 05:11 PM
REALLY SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST!


Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by acjake:
I'm a bit confused. Can someone please explain how Ezio is able to relive Altair's memories in AC:R if they are not ancestors? Because the whole idea is Desmond is reliving Ezio...then Ezio finds seals (which he did in his lifetime) to relive Altair's memories, or am I completely wrong? I would appreciate if someone explained. Maybe someone should ask Gabe this Ezio/Altair question in the next Q&A.
it has something to do with those seals. I'm guessing AltaÔr stored some of his memories in them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since when did they say that the seals didn't have the memories stored on them? They've been saying that for a while now! Like forever!

Come on, remember? it always said that the memories were in the seals, not that the seals took him there. Because once you think about it: Ezio's genetic memory of Altair, if he would've had it, would've stopped the same time Desmond's did, making it impossible to see any memories in his older days like they have BEEN FREAKING PROMOTING. GOD!

I'm sorry, but it seems like people just post **** up and don't look for any answers themselves...okay, I'm good. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Edit: Not going off on LightRey here, just the guy he quoted, lol

acjake
07-23-2011, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by t260z:
REALLY SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by acjake:
I'm a bit confused. Can someone please explain how Ezio is able to relive Altair's memories in AC:R if they are not ancestors? Because the whole idea is Desmond is reliving Ezio...then Ezio finds seals (which he did in his lifetime) to relive Altair's memories, or am I completely wrong? I would appreciate if someone explained. Maybe someone should ask Gabe this Ezio/Altair question in the next Q&A.
it has something to do with those seals. I'm guessing AltaÔr stored some of his memories in them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since when did they say that the seals didn't have the memories stored on them? They've been saying that for a while now! Like forever!

Come on, remember? it always said that the memories were in the seals, not that the seals took him there. Because once you think about it: Ezio's genetic memory of Altair, if he would've had it, would've stopped the same time Desmond's did, making it impossible to see any memories in his older days like they have BEEN FREAKING PROMOTING. GOD!

I'm sorry, but it seems like people just post **** up and don't look for any answers themselves...okay, I'm good. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Edit: Not going off on LightRey here, just the guy he quoted, lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow lol I'm the guy LightRey quoted and I don't understand why you would want to "go off" on me. I mean have you considered maybe some people are new to the series or maybe someone missed something ...lol? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Oh yeah and @LightRey thanks for answering my questions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

CRUDFACE
07-23-2011, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by acjake:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by t260z:
REALLY SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by acjake:
I'm a bit confused. Can someone please explain how Ezio is able to relive Altair's memories in AC:R if they are not ancestors? Because the whole idea is Desmond is reliving Ezio...then Ezio finds seals (which he did in his lifetime) to relive Altair's memories, or am I completely wrong? I would appreciate if someone explained. Maybe someone should ask Gabe this Ezio/Altair question in the next Q&A.
it has something to do with those seals. I'm guessing AltaÔr stored some of his memories in them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since when did they say that the seals didn't have the memories stored on them? They've been saying that for a while now! Like forever!

Come on, remember? it always said that the memories were in the seals, not that the seals took him there. Because once you think about it: Ezio's genetic memory of Altair, if he would've had it, would've stopped the same time Desmond's did, making it impossible to see any memories in his older days like they have BEEN FREAKING PROMOTING. GOD!

I'm sorry, but it seems like people just post **** up and don't look for any answers themselves...okay, I'm good. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Edit: Not going off on LightRey here, just the guy he quoted, lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow lol I'm the guy LightRey quoted and I don't understand why you would want to "go off" on me. I mean have you considered maybe some people are new to the series or maybe someone missed something ...lol? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Oh yeah and @LightRey thanks for answering my questions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No joke, in your innocent post I saw every person who asked the same god damn thing...sorry about that. But if you are new to the series, why start on Revelations? Didn't you play the rest? Or hear any news about it elsewhere?

blazefp
07-23-2011, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by acjake:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by t260z:
REALLY SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by acjake:
I'm a bit confused. Can someone please explain how Ezio is able to relive Altair's memories in AC:R if they are not ancestors? Because the whole idea is Desmond is reliving Ezio...then Ezio finds seals (which he did in his lifetime) to relive Altair's memories, or am I completely wrong? I would appreciate if someone explained. Maybe someone should ask Gabe this Ezio/Altair question in the next Q&A.
it has something to do with those seals. I'm guessing AltaÔr stored some of his memories in them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since when did they say that the seals didn't have the memories stored on them? They've been saying that for a while now! Like forever!

Come on, remember? it always said that the memories were in the seals, not that the seals took him there. Because once you think about it: Ezio's genetic memory of Altair, if he would've had it, would've stopped the same time Desmond's did, making it impossible to see any memories in his older days like they have BEEN FREAKING PROMOTING. GOD!

I'm sorry, but it seems like people just post **** up and don't look for any answers themselves...okay, I'm good. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Edit: Not going off on LightRey here, just the guy he quoted, lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow lol I'm the guy LightRey quoted and I don't understand why you would want to "go off" on me. I mean have you considered maybe some people are new to the series or maybe someone missed something ...lol? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Oh yeah and @LightRey thanks for answering my questions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

35 posts against 461. Hmm I guess acjake wins xP
AC is probably the biggest franchise I've ever seen, it's not easy for new guys to understand all the story at once and if they try to just find the whole story for themselves they would take literally weeks to get it all. Give him a hand if he asks for it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

acjake
07-23-2011, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by t260z:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by acjake:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by t260z:
REALLY SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by acjake:
I'm a bit confused. Can someone please explain how Ezio is able to relive Altair's memories in AC:R if they are not ancestors? Because the whole idea is Desmond is reliving Ezio...then Ezio finds seals (which he did in his lifetime) to relive Altair's memories, or am I completely wrong? I would appreciate if someone explained. Maybe someone should ask Gabe this Ezio/Altair question in the next Q&A.
it has something to do with those seals. I'm guessing AltaÔr stored some of his memories in them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since when did they say that the seals didn't have the memories stored on them? They've been saying that for a while now! Like forever!

Come on, remember? it always said that the memories were in the seals, not that the seals took him there. Because once you think about it: Ezio's genetic memory of Altair, if he would've had it, would've stopped the same time Desmond's did, making it impossible to see any memories in his older days like they have BEEN FREAKING PROMOTING. GOD!

I'm sorry, but it seems like people just post **** up and don't look for any answers themselves...okay, I'm good. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Edit: Not going off on LightRey here, just the guy he quoted, lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow lol I'm the guy LightRey quoted and I don't understand why you would want to "go off" on me. I mean have you considered maybe some people are new to the series or maybe someone missed something ...lol? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Oh yeah and @LightRey thanks for answering my questions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No joke, in your innocent post I saw every person who asked the same god damn thing...sorry about that. But if you are new to the series, why start on Revelations? Didn't you play the rest? Or hear any news about it elsewhere? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lol no worries http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif you don't have to apologize & no I'm not new to the series been playing since AC1 I guess I just misunderstood the whole Altair/Ezio thing! but off-topic I'm stoked for AC:R ...do you know anything about the AC Panel?

CRUDFACE
07-23-2011, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by acjake:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by t260z:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by acjake:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by t260z:
REALLY SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by acjake:
I'm a bit confused. Can someone please explain how Ezio is able to relive Altair's memories in AC:R if they are not ancestors? Because the whole idea is Desmond is reliving Ezio...then Ezio finds seals (which he did in his lifetime) to relive Altair's memories, or am I completely wrong? I would appreciate if someone explained. Maybe someone should ask Gabe this Ezio/Altair question in the next Q&A.
it has something to do with those seals. I'm guessing AltaÔr stored some of his memories in them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since when did they say that the seals didn't have the memories stored on them? They've been saying that for a while now! Like forever!

Come on, remember? it always said that the memories were in the seals, not that the seals took him there. Because once you think about it: Ezio's genetic memory of Altair, if he would've had it, would've stopped the same time Desmond's did, making it impossible to see any memories in his older days like they have BEEN FREAKING PROMOTING. GOD!

I'm sorry, but it seems like people just post **** up and don't look for any answers themselves...okay, I'm good. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Edit: Not going off on LightRey here, just the guy he quoted, lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow lol I'm the guy LightRey quoted and I don't understand why you would want to "go off" on me. I mean have you considered maybe some people are new to the series or maybe someone missed something ...lol? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Oh yeah and @LightRey thanks for answering my questions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No joke, in your innocent post I saw every person who asked the same god damn thing...sorry about that. But if you are new to the series, why start on Revelations? Didn't you play the rest? Or hear any news about it elsewhere? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lol no worries http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif you don't have to apologize & no I'm not new to the series been playing since AC1 I guess I just misunderstood the whole Altair/Ezio thing! but off-topic I'm stoked for AC:R ...do you know anything about the AC Panel? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Someone just posted a thread on it, and it links you right there, but...well...it doesn't give much info and the real trailer to Assassin's creed embers...lol, he forgot to tape it, or something like that.

Oatkeeper
07-23-2011, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by rileypoole1234:
They're still related to Desmond though. Just one's on his mothers side and ones on his fathers side if anybody is confused.
or it could be split anywhere else on his family tree. for instance, his grandmother could share both of their DNa and it splits at his great grand parants.

The point being is that at some point Ezios predecessors had two children, on of which went to Subject 16s family tree, and the other to Desmonds.

But Im a bit curious how come this was never brought up before. I mean I thought the whole purpose of the Auditore family crypt was to explain how Aliars family moved to italy.

Ureh
07-23-2011, 08:51 PM
They only ways they'll be able explain why they couldn't view Altair's memories through Ezio's memories through Subject 16 is:

1. if they made some of the events in the trailer uncanon. Which means some of the Altair memories they needed were not in 16.
2. or say that Subject 16 went crazy before they could view Altair's memories.

And why did they say that we need to play as Ezio to view Altair's memories through the seals? How come we couldn't just revisit Altair? I'm a little behind on all the details they've revealed so far, so maybe I missed something...

twenty_glyphs
07-23-2011, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by Ureh:
They only ways they'll be able explain why they couldn't view Altair's memories through Ezio's memories through Subject 16 is:

1. if they made some of the events in the trailer uncanon. Which means some of the Altair memories they needed were not in 16.
2. or say that Subject 16 went crazy before they could view Altair's memories.

And why did they say that we need to play as Ezio to view Altair's memories through the seals? How come we couldn't just revisit Altair? I'm a little behind on all the details they've revealed so far, so maybe I missed something...

Because AltaÔr conceived his two children when he was around 28 and 30 years old. If Desmond descends from the first child, then his DNA doesn't contain any memories of AltaÔr after the conception of that child. We'll be seeing memories from AltaÔr's life that happen up until he's 90 years old. The only way to see that is to have some mechanism other than DNA to store and view the memories, which is the reason for the seals. Since Ezio found the seals and saw those memories, reliving his memories will give Desmond access to them. Otherwise Desmond would have to have those seals himself to see the memories, if they hadn't been recorded over with new memories by the 21st century.

Ureh
07-23-2011, 09:05 PM
Thanks! Was the age that he fathered his children revealed in Secret Crusade? I think I'll need to get that book earlier than I planned to. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

twenty_glyphs
07-23-2011, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by Ureh:
Thanks! Was the age that he fathered his children revealed in Secret Crusade? I think I'll need to get that book earlier than I planned to. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

Pretty much, yeah. It's mostly just hinted at because it says things like his first child was born two years after events of the Bloodlines game, which most likely happened in 1191 like the first game. We think AltaÔr himself was born in 1165 because of the date in the Facebook teaser for Revelations in May. I think the book hints at events that will be the subject of seal memories we play in Revelations. There are a couple of events told as short summaries that sound like good opportunities for levels in the game, so I think that's why they were left somewhat vague.

blazefp
07-24-2011, 05:14 AM
I have a better mystery:


Remember that mysterious figure entering the gate in Desmond's trailer?
I found that figure again. Just before the first hidden message there's a very brief glyph . 0:58
Here we see Desmond by the back and the strange figure more clearly. It seems S16.
There's also some kind of a file icon in the down-right; a door with a figure (another) in the left and seems to be somewhere in AI; a entrance to a hangar(?) bellow Desmond handless arm.



http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z376/ezekiel00712/1.jpg


Any idea of what this means?

I know this isn't related to the topic but since everything was already answered I thought it would be ok if I posted this here

Lalalalaaaa
07-25-2011, 08:42 PM
Hereís my 6 cents:
1. I think the reason why Ezio can see Altair in the trailer has something to do with the new Eagle Sense. Juno specifically tells Desmond that a sense has been locked away, namely knowledge. Iím pretty sure that Eagle vison/ sense is what the 6th sense is and Juno also states that you can ďonly see the blue shimmerĒ which may be in reference to ONLY Eagle Vision. In ACR Ezio gains this new ability of Eagle Sense which is obviously an upgrade of Eagle Vision (which other assassins have as has been revealed to us in Project Legacy with Giovanni Borgia). Maybe you can only get Eagle Sense through vigilant training and practice and maybe this ability is what lets Ezio see Altair without them being related. I donít necessarily think it is because of the bleeding effect only because they state over and over again that you suffer from it from over exposure to the animus (I highly doubt 5 seals would constitute an overexposure).
2. I also donít think that the memories stored in the seals are relevent to the modern day Assassin/Templar storyline. Abstergo is mainly looking for POE to launch in their satalites to accomplish their dominate-the-world-through-mind-control agenda. So they might not have cared to watch the memories or werenít able to because of Subject 16ís death. Subject 16 obviously hindered Abstergoís advancement by killing himself so they might not have gotten that far and thus donít know about what is stored at Masyaf.
3. As for the whole Demond, Ezio, Altair lookalike thing, I can roll with the idea that Desmond superimposes his features onto his ancestors. I think that Desmond physically relives the memories and doesnít just witness it. This would make the Bleeding Effect make more sense. In AC 1 and 2 Desmond is basically useless in that he canít freerun or fight but has to train via the Animus and the Bleeding Effect. Itís like that whole monkey see monkey do thing. As a psychology major I can tell you that seeing someone perform an action, like pick up a cup and take a drink, activates the same neurons in your head as if you were doing the action yourself (aptly named Mirror Neurons).
4. I really donít think Ezio and Altair not being related is a big deal. As someone pointed out earlier (I forget specificially who) it only highlights the fact why Desmond is SO important to the series. Subject 16 is related to Ezio as well, so if Ezio was related to Altair then there would be no need for a Desmond. We would have a completely different protagonist. Or maybe there would be no Subject 16 to throw a wrench in the mix with his Truth puzzles. I mean it would tie in everything nicely if they were related and they were somehow special because only they had the ability of Eagle Vision/ Sense but as we saw with Project Legacy theyíre not the only ones with that specific ability. I also donít think Adam and Eve were the ONLY ones with that ability. As Juno had said in the vault in the end of ACB they tried to pass their 6th sense on and passing it on to ONLY 2 people doesnít really ensure its survival (if you think of it in terms of evolutionary fitness). Also Juno says that they were betrayed and this led to a war between human kind and her kind. Adam and Eve could be the start of that war. If thats the case then the Event that burnt the Earth (as discussed in the vault at the end of AC2) happened AFTER Adam and Eve escaped and after the war started. Minerva had said that they had been too distracted by the war to ďnotice the skiesĒ which led to a near extinction of both of their races. I think that is a good motivating factor to pass the 6th sence onto as many people as they can. It could be that it lies dormant in many people, not just assassins, but that they are unable or donít know how to access it. I think what makes assassins, and Adam and Eve, special is that they are uninfluenced by the mind control capabilities of the POE (I think this was also vague refereced to in the e-mails in AC1 where they discovered some people were immune to the effects of the POE).
5. I think we are also forgetting the very important fact which is that Altair had a POE for a very, VERY long time. He used it to create the hidden gun and stuff and even states in his codex that it shows him things that are not possible in his time. Obviously this means he can see into the future in a way which is how heís able to come up with these upgrades and designs. So if he can design a hidden blade upgrade, why canít he see the importance of Ezio? Altair may have purposely given his codex to Marco Polo because he knew it would eventually end up in the right places for Ezio to find. He also may have known that Ezio was the Prophet when he wrote his codex but couldnít specifically state so or maybe wasnít told so. If TWCB knew Desmond would be reliving Ezioís memory and that Ezio would come to the vault to recieve that message for Desmond, why couldnít they use the POE to influence and guild Altair to further lay their plan down by encouraging him to put these memories in the seals and to give the codex to Marco Polo?
6. For the Ezio living Altair through the seals topic, I think the seals are a mechanism to anchor Altairís memories and that theyíre not exactly specific to Ezio. In the media covering ACR its said that Ezio has to beat the Templars to get the seals and that they already have one. This may mean that maybe the Templars can relive the memory on their seal the same way Ezio will be able to relive the memories on the seals he collects. If the Templars CAN relive the memory stored in the seal it could also explain how the idea and creation of Abstergoís Animus came about. Maybe they used the technology or idea of the memory-contained-seal to give birth to the Animus, something which is only able to happen if they too can relive it.

Of course this is all speculation on my part. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif