PDA

View Full Version : Why is Zero cockpit so ugly?



DarthBane_
01-30-2005, 10:47 AM
It is a main Jap plane, why didnt it recive some serious attention from 1c designers? Do you guys have a problem with seeing how bad it looks like? Do you have some list of priorities on wich i185??????? and gladiator?????? comes first in front of main theatre fighter like Zero? Unbeliveable. Val is also terrible. Why dont you pay to serious designers who modeled ki84,me110,glad,i185,me262 to work on all cockpits. Are some people getting a job in 1c because of frendship or blood relation?? Looking at zero cockpit i dont know what to think? Is there art director in 1c? Man, you should quickly try some other job.

DarthBane_
01-30-2005, 10:47 AM
It is a main Jap plane, why didnt it recive some serious attention from 1c designers? Do you guys have a problem with seeing how bad it looks like? Do you have some list of priorities on wich i185??????? and gladiator?????? comes first in front of main theatre fighter like Zero? Unbeliveable. Val is also terrible. Why dont you pay to serious designers who modeled ki84,me110,glad,i185,me262 to work on all cockpits. Are some people getting a job in 1c because of frendship or blood relation?? Looking at zero cockpit i dont know what to think? Is there art director in 1c? Man, you should quickly try some other job.

3.JG51_BigBear
01-30-2005, 10:56 AM
I kinda like the Zero cockpit. The Ki-43 was a mjor diappointment but I don't think the zero cockpit is that bad especially since the original zero was put in the game quite some time ago.

Turk_man
01-30-2005, 11:13 AM
Hold on to your hats folks and someone run for the extinguisher I think there might be a fire http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

actionhank1786
01-30-2005, 11:13 AM
calm down, if you can't beat it, don't knock it.
I think it looks fine, it obviously met Oleg's standards, and i really doubt it's causing you to lose sleep at night.

Latico
01-30-2005, 12:46 PM
Do you have resources showing an actual cockpit?

If not, put a cork in it.

Could it be possible that some planes were designed (historically) without interier decorum in mind? Yup.

sledgehammer2
01-30-2005, 12:46 PM
I am a cockpit fanatic, and I have to say that the Zero's is not that bad. Sure I wish more of the levers moved when you activated their assigned functions, but many of them do, and I just don't feel that the Zeke's pit deserves that harsh a criticism. Remember the Zero cockpits in CFS2? Not a fair comparison but I remember how ugly they were. I wish the Zeke cockpit was as pretty as the Frank and the Tony, but as I said, it's not that bad as it is.

ElAurens
01-30-2005, 01:40 PM
The Gladiator's cockpit was designed by a third party, for free, so they could take huge ammounts of time to get beautiful textures.

The I 185's cockpit was done to the minimum standards for BoB as a test. (Don't ask, a little bird told me ok?) All AC in BoB will look at least that good.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

civildog
01-30-2005, 01:51 PM
Except for not having the cockpit fill with fumes from the guns it sure looks like a Zeke 'pit to me. What's wrong with it?

marcocomparato
01-30-2005, 02:07 PM
looks quite nice to me too.

u guys werent here for the early Yak days of IL-2

and otherwise, im also running a 6800Ultra with perfect settings - because i care about how it looks - maybe then i would have the right to complain.

whats your graphics hardware and settings?

DuxCorvan
01-30-2005, 02:44 PM
Easy answer:

The Zero pit is ugly because the real Zero pit was ugly. It's a good copy IMHO. If you don't like it, talk to Mitsubishi pit designer, but I doubt he's atill alive, and I doubt even more he cares a turd about Zero pit's aesthetics. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Blackdog5555
01-30-2005, 02:58 PM
when u compare it to the Ki61, which is really nice, but its not that bad. But some pits do have better attention.. Love the P-38 but the F6F doesnt have the level of detail, etc, bla bla..but it would be nice to have more levers, trim , boost switches activate/move. and it would also be nice to watch to guns shake and bolts move with smoke filling the cockpit when guns are fired. Just a wish list.

civildog
01-30-2005, 03:11 PM
In real life some of these cockpits looked just as plain and simple as they do in the game. The designers were trying to make something simple enough to read quickly in combat and easy to teach to new pilots. They didn't care about how "cool" it looked.

Some of the cockpits were masterful examples of form following function...like the Wildcat/Hellcat pits (which really do look just as plain and "ugly" in real life as they do in the game), while others are just a mess..like the P-38, God knows what the designer was thinking with that thing.

Indianer.
01-30-2005, 03:23 PM
The worst pits in the game belong to the dauntless and wildcat. The wildcat pit is like something out of a cartoon. It looks as tho they were cobbled together at the same time as the origional IL2, very dated, with **** textures and shading, just look at the trottle quadrant.

3.JG51_BigBear
01-30-2005, 03:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Indianer.:
The worst pits in the game belong to the dauntless and wildcat. The wildcat pit is like something out of a cartoon. It looks as tho they were cobbled together at the same time as the origional IL2, very dated, with **** textures and shading, just look at the trottle quadrant. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The worst pits are in the P11 or the Bl1 your choice.

FF_Trozaka
01-30-2005, 04:07 PM
whats wrong with the zero panel? Its my favorite ride, i think it is fine.

If you want to whine about instrument panels, you could... umm lets see... how's about...
whine about a KATE PANEL !
YEAH!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
S!

blairgowrie
01-30-2005, 05:04 PM
I am with the original poster DarthBane. I flew the Zero for the first time the other night and made a similar comment to my team mate. It was not a critical comment; merely an observation. The cockpit just looked so sparse compared to some of the other cockpits in the sim.

I have no idea if that's the way the cockpit originally looked or not. If it was then any comments apply to the engineers and the ones who built the Zero and not to the modellers.

SeaFireLIV
01-30-2005, 05:11 PM
I don`t know for sure, but the way I see it, I reckon that`s how it would have looked in reality. I doubt Japan spent too much time on frills where war is concerned.

3.JG51_BigBear
01-30-2005, 05:22 PM
http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com/Japan/Mitsubishi/images/A6M5%20Kanoya%20cockpit.jpg

The real thing is really ugly.

blairgowrie
01-30-2005, 05:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
I don`t know for sure, but the way I see it, I reckon that`s how it would have looked in reality. I doubt Japan spent too much time on frills where war is concerned. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's how it seemed to me too SeaFireL1V and I am sure that's what DarthBane was also getting at. Not a whine; merely an observation.

Texas LongHorn
01-30-2005, 05:26 PM
Hey Indianer, watch what you're saying about my 'pit! I fly the Wildcat almost exclusively and don't have any major problems with it. Besides, in the heat of combat I'm looking out the canopy mate, not down at the instruments other than a quick glance now and again. All the best, LongHorn

EnGaurde
01-30-2005, 05:39 PM
another ridiculous write off of a facet of PF by a clown who obviously has no real knowledge of what a Zero cockpit actually looked like, but is quite prepared to rubbish someone elses informed design efforts.

if he had come up with his own beautifully modelled version, with plenty of clear, period photgraphs, sketches and reference material, i would agree on merit.

instead its an attack based on nothing more than petulant attitude.

hmm i dont want historical accuracy by the people that researched it clearly more than i did...

idiots.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

3.JG51_BigBear
01-30-2005, 05:45 PM
After looking at some more picture of the zero cockpit after doing some quick google searching, I think the one we have in game is far pretier than the real thing. The same goes for many of the other Japanese cockpits which seem to be very minimalist and simplistic design. Much easier to use in combat I would think.

DarthBane_
01-30-2005, 07:49 PM
Well i ment to put it this way:
we have a, b, c category for quality and i am talking about INGAME AESTETIC not RL.
Zero is the most important and numerous PF theatre fighter and yet he is b-c quality.
Some less important planes have superb INGAME design under a. quality. PF is about ZERO-s prime theatre why is it so badly done? I point that as strange and bad managing of resorces.
Instead of gladiator, Zero should have been done that way, and instead of i185 me109 should have recived that special attention. Am i wrong? Which fighter is the most important for european theatre? (i185? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif) And wich is for PF? (gladiator? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif). I am sory for making some people angry with this topic.

DarthBane_
01-30-2005, 07:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EnGaurde:
another ridiculous write off of a facet of PF by a clown who obviously has no real knowledge of what a Zero cockpit actually looked like, but is quite prepared to rubbish someone elses informed design efforts.

if he had come up with his own beautifully modelled version, with plenty of clear, period photgraphs, sketches and reference material, i would agree on merit.

instead its an attack based on nothing more than petulant attitude.

hmm i dont want historical accuracy by the people that researched it clearly more than i did...

idiots.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Serious problems with anger EnGaurde, maybe consider some tranquelizers? You will live longer if you learn to come your self down.

Sharkey888
01-30-2005, 08:00 PM
DB you might just be on to something here. I beleive the allocation of resources to make PF has been way off or maybe there has not been any at all?!
It looks to be dished out to different parties only by who wanted to do what, instead of the better/faster/more reliable modelers doing the more IMPORTANT models in the game-ensuring that the most important aspects of the game were done correctly-if even at all!!

civildog
01-30-2005, 08:01 PM
Don't forget that different third parties made the cockpits farmed out to them by the developers. That's why the Gladiator and I-185 pits are so much nicer than some others.

That being said, though, the cockpits in the PTO planes are accurate. Go check some phots of the real things. The Hellcats and Wildcats hardly had an instrument panel at all, and no floor! Carrier planes saved weight this way. As for the Zero..

here's a real one, sure looks like the one in the game to me.

www.fargoairmuseum.org/famimages/zero-cockpit-2.jpg (http://www.fargoairmuseum.org/famimages/zero-cockpit-2.jpg)

heywooood
01-30-2005, 08:02 PM
just more bashing, eh?....

here are some radishes for you...

http://www.localharvest.org/images/cat/prod_7498_2596_l.jpg

horseback
01-30-2005, 08:18 PM
I built a 1/48th scale model of an A6M3 type 32 for a real Zero-ficianado a few years back-he would have done it himself, but the poor guy has eleven thumbs (and all of them had glue on them-I did it for a discount if he promised never to take it out of the display case). The guy hung over my shoulder almost the whole time, so I'd get it right.

Anyway, we did a lot of research to get the interior colors right (some Japanese aircraft had color coded knobs, different manufacturers used different paints, etc,). All of the interior colors used by all the manufacturers were ideal for bringing out the worst in Frankenstein's complexion.

Most of the photos we could find indicated a very worn (but clean) 'pit painted in a monotonous treebark greenish color. There was little to cover the control and instrument cabling runs, and there was one (!) shoulder belt used running diagonally across the chest (apparently, they didn't use inertia belts).

It was bare, ugly, and functional enough to be ...American. Only the lack of pilot protection (we joked about adding a little box of rubbers so he'd have some defense) gave its' origins away.

The FB/AEP/PF Zeros are true to the original. If you want more immersion, you'll have to have a friend (or better yet, an ex-wife) shoot you with a large caliber gun and set you on fire when that Hellcat catches up to you...

cheers

horseback

sledgehammer2
01-30-2005, 08:19 PM
Well, hell... I have to agree with Texas LH on the Wildcat. It looks ok to me.

actionhank1786
01-30-2005, 10:16 PM
different people make the cockpits, so of course they're going to look different.

sapre
01-30-2005, 10:23 PM
P-47 and D3A1 has the worst cockpit in FB/PF.

SeminoleX
01-30-2005, 11:43 PM
I don't have any problem with the Zero and Val pits...on the other hand .... those hokey 4th rate default skins....http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

luke97
01-31-2005, 12:15 AM
The worst cockpits: P-47´s (I cant fly this plane cause its cockpit) and, at very far distance from P-47 uglyness, Mig 3 and other oldies.
The best cockpits: Gladiator, I-185, Bf-110, He-162, Ki-84, Ki-61, P-51,...etc

I´m really cockpit fanatic, and my only complain about zero cockpits are the strange reflections and flat sensation of some dials, like fuel ones.
I love Wildcat, Hellcat and (but less) Corsair ones. Dont know why somebody complain about them....

TheGozr
01-31-2005, 12:43 AM
I agree that many of planes need a cockpit udate pretty much for all il2 original planes , like i said many time earlier we don't need new planes.
I'll advise Oleg to use only 3dr party to make cockpits from now on.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif imo Just imagine the sims with all those new fresh updated cockpits..

A dream.. yeas

We can wait for BOB and pay 2000 $ more to updates our PC's but mean time Oleg please lets the passionate members or 3 dr party rework those ugly old cockpits. and give us just a bit of movements with at list 20 % of vector moves.

TheGozr
01-31-2005, 12:44 AM
And sounds.......


I think the sounds of the la's are better now, more deep, sounds of Axis planes are better and ki 61's but yaks and others..... humm.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Inside a real yak the engine V12 sound like a top Fueler http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif , in game well many like the yak9 sound like my coffee grounder. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
Just a litle bit of tweaks aand the game would be so much better.

Feathered_IV
01-31-2005, 01:55 AM
My toes look funny.
Wah! Oleg, fix them. FIX THEM!!!!!!

http://anime-templates.com/images2/Roruni%20Kenshin%20gifs/upload_236829.gif

WOLFMondo
01-31-2005, 02:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 3.JG51_BigBear:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Indianer.:
The worst pits in the game belong to the dauntless and wildcat. The wildcat pit is like something out of a cartoon. It looks as tho they were cobbled together at the same time as the origional IL2, very dated, with **** textures and shading, just look at the trottle quadrant. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The worst pits are in the P11 or the Bl1 your choice. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bah! P47 has the worst pit, followed by the 109's. Just look at the rudder pedals in the 109 and then compare them to the D9 or Ta152. Complete difference in quality of the model and textures.

Aero_Shodanjo
01-31-2005, 03:16 AM
Why the Zero's cockpit so ugly?

It's all about simple psychology:

1. It helps the pilot not to get bored over long distance flight over Pacific. As you can see, boredom during flights can cause lives.

2. It gives the pilot the chance to curse every flaws they see inside and be forced to pay more attention to the gauges and levers.

3. Ugly cockpit will give more guarantee that when the pilot(s) encounter the enemies, they will be so outraged by the ugliness of their cockpit so they can become more aggresive. This explains why Zero pilots during the early years of the war are very skillfull and fearsome. The longer you'll stay in the cockpit, the more outraged you'll be and the more aggressive you'll become.

4. etc.

So it was actually designed that way for a purpose.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

PS: Big catches today it seems http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

RocketDog
01-31-2005, 07:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
The I 185's cockpit was done to the minimum standards for BoB as a test. (Don't ask, a little bird told me ok?) All AC in BoB will look at least that good.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hoorah!

*faints with excited anticipation*

Thud.

Regards,

RocketDog.

SeaFireLIV
01-31-2005, 08:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DarthBane_:
Well i ment to put it this way:
we have a, b, c category for quality and i am talking about INGAME AESTETIC not RL.
Zero is the most important and numerous PF theatre fighter and yet he is b-c quality.
Some less important planes have superb INGAME design under a. quality. PF is about ZERO-s prime theatre why is it so badly done? I point that as strange and bad managing of resorces.
Instead of gladiator, Zero should have been done that way, and instead of i185 me109 should have recived that special attention. Am i wrong? Which fighter is the most important for european theatre? (i185? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif) And wich is for PF? (gladiator? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif). I am sory for making some people angry with this topic. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are wrong. Quite wrong. The sim is about emulating reality, NOT aesthetics. If aesthetics WERE involved in this particular plane in WWII then good, but it wasn`t and isn`t needed. I`ve had a look at the cockpit, it looks pretty much like the real thing, is functional and does its job - What the heck more do you want? To fight the enemy or wallpaper your cockpit with pretty flowers?

If it means SO much to you, go fly the Gladiater, that has the nicest looking cockpit on the planet! You can sit staring at it as you get shot up and go down in flames.

Youre just trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. There`s nothing to complain about here.



A silly complaint.

RocketDog
01-31-2005, 08:17 AM
I think it's a good complaint (if there is such a thing) and that some of the criticism above confuses comments over a poor 3D model with comments over a dull-in-real-life cockpit. The original complaint was about the former.

The problem isn't that the real cockpit was dull, nobody is arguing that it wasn't. The problem is the lack of a feeling of depth in the 3D cockpit model that we have in the game. It feels too much like a 2D panel at times with its rather crude texture work and instruments rather than a believable 3D environment in which the player can feel immersed.

Of course you could argue that we don't need beautifully realised cockpits to play the game. And indeed we don't. But if you want to create any sensation of actually looking through your PC screen into a believable 3D world, then crude cockpits are a serious barrier. For all my enthusiasm for IL2/PF, I have to admit that the wide variation in quality of cockpits has ended up with some very good work being attached to aircraft that hardly ever get flown (I-185 anybody?) and some real horrors being attached to aircraft that get flown a lot (e.g., P-47, Zero and Bf-109).

Regards,

RocketDog.

DuxCorvan
01-31-2005, 08:38 AM
To be sincere, I'd like some of the old stuff to be a little revamped: 109s, P-47s, MiG-3 and P.11 cockpits...

And please, the default skins. Some of them are ugly and cartoonish and have aged a lot. The worst ones are IMHO the 109s default skins... they are simply fantasy-inspired, horrible, and there's a lot of skins out there that simply try to use RLM-like tones. I think it should not be that hard to replace them with any of Il2Skins generic unmarked ones. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

indylavi
01-31-2005, 09:34 AM
RocketDog, is right. I think the complaint is more about the quality of the pit and not about it being plain. I will admit that the textures and shading on the Zero could be better. As said there are some planes that have lovely textures and others that don't. It's nothing to do with the layout of the pit. However, I don't spend too much time looking at the cockpit to be really bothered by it. You can tell that some pits got more care than others in the texture department. But they serve their purpose and that's good enough for me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SeaFireLIV
01-31-2005, 10:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
To be sincere, I'd like some of the old stuff to be a little revamped: 109s, P-47s, MiG-3 and P.11 cockpits...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dux Corvan, I was on another forum and saw someone called Dux Corvanus! Could that be you?

DuxCorvan
01-31-2005, 12:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
To be sincere, I'd like some of the old stuff to be a little revamped: 109s, P-47s, MiG-3 and P.11 cockpits...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dux Corvan, I was on another forum and saw someone called Dux Corvanus! Could that be you? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could be... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Rome Total Realism or Europa Barbarorum? I hope it was not in the latter, I had a bitter exchange with an arrogant/pedant mod developer there, and I left that forum for good... it's full of btchy people.

In comparison, these forums look like a Gentlemen Club. Believe me.

Yep. I like Total War series... like FB, another chance to merge my real life hobbies with entertainment. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

SeaFireLIV
01-31-2005, 03:42 PM
It was in Rome Total realism, but I`ve only started looking there. I`m known as Humble Warrior if you see me... I`m a TW fan as well. And that Patch should soon be out.

DarthBane_
01-31-2005, 03:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RocketDog:
I think it's a good complaint (if there is such a thing) and that some of the criticism above confuses comments over a poor 3D model with comments over a dull-in-real-life cockpit. The original complaint was about the former.

The problem isn't that the real cockpit was dull, nobody is arguing that it wasn't. The problem is the lack of a feeling of depth in the 3D cockpit model that we have in the game. It feels too much like a 2D panel at times with its rather crude texture work and instruments rather than a believable 3D environment in which the player can feel immersed.

Of course you could argue that we don't need beautifully realised cockpits to play the game. And indeed we don't. But if you want to create any sensation of actually looking through your PC screen into a believable 3D world, then crude cockpits are a serious barrier. For all my enthusiasm for IL2/PF, I have to admit that the wide variation in quality of cockpits has ended up with some very good work being attached to aircraft that hardly ever get flown (I-185 anybody?) and some real horrors being attached to aircraft that get flown a lot (e.g., P-47, Zero and Bf-109).

Regards,

RocketDog. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You said it much better than i did. Poor model and bad textures are issue. Overall bad impression for zero, val, p47, so bad that i cannot fly tham. I am aware that some people have lower perception for details, they probably have bonuses in other areas, its natural.

DarthBane_
01-31-2005, 03:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DarthBane_:
Well i ment to put it this way:
we have a, b, c category for quality and i am talking about INGAME AESTETIC not RL.
Zero is the most important and numerous PF theatre fighter and yet he is b-c quality.
Some less important planes have superb INGAME design under a. quality. PF is about ZERO-s prime theatre why is it so badly done? I point that as strange and bad managing of resorces.
Instead of gladiator, Zero should have been done that way, and instead of i185 me109 should have recived that special attention. Am i wrong? Which fighter is the most important for european theatre? (i185? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif) And wich is for PF? (gladiator? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif). I am sory for making some people angry with this topic. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are wrong. Quite wrong. The sim is about emulating reality, NOT aesthetics. If aesthetics WERE involved in this particular plane in WWII then good, but it wasn`t and isn`t needed. I`ve had a look at the cockpit, it looks pretty much like the real thing, is functional and does its job - What the heck more do you want? To fight the enemy or wallpaper your cockpit with pretty flowers?

If it means SO much to you, go fly the Gladiater, that has the nicest looking cockpit on the planet! You can sit staring at it as you get shot up and go down in flames.

Youre just trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. There`s nothing to complain about here.



A silly complaint. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Silly remark of yours, i wont tell you that you are wrong, just silly. Try to understand better what was written. Some people did.