PDA

View Full Version : IL-2 Sturmovik vs Ju-87 Stuka



DKoor
08-18-2009, 05:46 AM
Which one is more successful in their attack role? What do you think?
Lately I've been playing IL-2 campaign and I can't but to notice that IL-2's guns especially in mid-variants and some later variants simply rocks... VyA-23 and NS-23/30 are kick-arse cannons... will kill many things on ground.

IL-2 also has great anti-tank rocket arsenal... possible to destroy several tanks with it.

On the other hand, Ju-87 is perhaps on of the best (if not the best) attack aircraft in anti shipping role... very versatile and useful in any kind of very precise, pinpoint bombing where you have to drop enormous bomb load at one spot.

All things considered I give advantage to IL-2.

How about you?

Skarphol
08-18-2009, 05:58 AM
It seems to me that the IL-2 beats Ju-87 on survivability and versatillity.
I guess much of Ju-87 sucsess can be explained by the german aircrews training.

I have no hard evidence to back up this thoughts, though.

Skarphol

Flight_boy1990
08-18-2009, 06:09 AM
When talking about survivability,i'll give my vote for the Stuka,because of the crew training and professionality.
For most of the IL-2's,their avarage live was 3 sorties,and the avarage survivability of the rear gunner was 2 missions maximum.
You know about the "become a VVS pilot in two days" training program of the soviets then. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Gammelpreusse
08-18-2009, 06:14 AM
IL2 pretty much. Though extensivly used in WW2, divebombing was given up right after it for a reason. The Stuka was a great divebomber, but not the best ground attack plane for sure.

A more fitting plane to compare to the IL2 would be the Hs 129

Tully__
08-18-2009, 06:19 AM
In game terms, I prefer the IL2, it's more versatile and has better cannon. That being said, I've not done a lot of practice with the Stuka style of near vertical dive bombing, so skill set may have something to do with my preference.

I particularly love the big cannon on the IL2-3M. When I'm on form with that puppy, I can single shot most ground targets about 3 out of 5 strafing runs. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Gammelpreusse
08-18-2009, 06:27 AM
Originally posted by Tully__:
In game terms, I prefer the IL2, it's more versatile and has better cannon. That being said, I've not done a lot of practice with the Stuka style of near vertical dive bombing, so skill set may have something to do with my preference.

I particularly love the big cannon on the IL2-3M. When I'm on form with that puppy, I can single shot most ground targets about 3 out of 5 strafing runs. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

These guns also work great on too bold enemy fighters http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

DKoor
08-18-2009, 06:48 AM
Anyone tried employing IL-2 as an interceptor?
I haven't found missions for IL-2I (istrebitel=fighter).
But seems to me that it could have some success vs Luftwaffe's mediums, granted that it doesn't get intercepted by fighters first...

About IL-2-3M, yeah it is a sweet ride, I think those were deployed to front when Kursk front opened... they had success vs German armor, however somewhere along the way they were deemed not so successful (and removed from production very shortly after Kursk battle) as their 20/23mm counterparts because of huge recoil and cannon jams... someone correct me if I got that wrong.

My preferred in game IL-2 ride is IL-2M later series... because rear gunner virtually has no protection from any side but his rear side http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ... really looks mean. And has best cannons (IMHO) VyA-23.

Ju-87D5 seems like the best in game option for me... considering huge load selections and 20mm wing mounted cannons.

acovert25
08-18-2009, 09:46 AM
Even though I love the Stuka to death, and would rather fly that than the Il2, I think the Il2 has more survivability. They have a better rear gun I think, and I also think their armor plating is far better on the Sturmovik.

I'd take the Stuka over the Sturmovik for pinpoint precision bombing, and usually that will help win a battle, I think anyway, 9 times out of 10. Look at the A-10 today, it's been around for awhile, could easily have been chopped, but still flying today and will probably keep flying for awhile longer.

Both are great planes, the Sturmovik will be my 3rd campaign I try after this Stuka campaign is done (which won't be for awhile started in 1941 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif).

DKoor
08-18-2009, 09:54 AM
I just finished 86th mission in my ongoing Sturmovik campaign... awesome survivability... vulnerable spots on Sturmo are outer parts of the wings and radiator... I also get fairly frequent cannon jams (often happens when under 88m flak fire).

But what sight it is... 6 IL-2's attacking enemy airfield, they took all small AA (most dangerous) in first pass, then party begins...

They are real dogs in vertical, have absolutely no chance vs fighters, however in horizontal they may get some chance but also very slim/none. But their guns make up for that, very nice cannon/gun setup. I still fly IL-2's without rear gunners...

Curiosity about IL-2's are that early versions are noticeably faster than later variants, may be due to more armor... however that means little vs Mk108 equipped LW late war rides.

Skarphol
08-18-2009, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Anyone tried employing IL-2 as an interceptor?


When I'm bored and want a quick fight I often use the QMB and put myself flying a wide varity of planes up against 4 x B17Gs.
When flying the Il-2I it's quite easy to down the 4 bombers. Not very realistic, I would guess, but quite funny.

Skarphol

mortoma
08-19-2009, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
I just finished 86th mission in my ongoing Sturmovik campaign... awesome survivability... vulnerable spots on Sturmo are outer parts of the wings and radiator... You got that right, as far as the outer parts of the wings. Once I discovered this weakness, I was able to down scores of IL2's using the weak guns on the Mc200 and 202 Italian planes. I'd just chew up their ailerons and that would be it!! Corkscrew into the ground every time.

Wildnoob
08-19-2009, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
You got that right, as far as the outer parts of the wings. Once I discovered this weakness, I was able to down scores of IL2's using the weak guns on the Mc200 and 202 Italian planes. I'd just chew up their ailerons and that would be it!! Corkscrew into the ground every time.

yes, and the later M 1942 series version has a mixed wood metal wing contruction, so is even more vulnerable.

Hawgdog
08-19-2009, 09:40 PM
Hands down, IL2!

EJGrOst_Caspar
08-24-2009, 07:17 AM
IMHO they are not very comparible. Would be interesting to compare Il-2 and Hs129 instead.

Kurfurst__
08-24-2009, 07:46 AM
Different animals - the Il-2 is primarly a strafer of soft targets, with lots of small bomblets amd rockets.

The useful load however is much smaller than the dive bomber Stuka - 400-600 kg vs 1800 kg. The Il is a better strafer, but the Stuka is more versatile - with its significant bombload it could also effectively hit bridges, railways, bunkers, and naval targets etc. The 23mm guns were also more powerful and were better at hitting moderately armored targets, whereas the 7,92mm/20mm MG 151 were clearly more meant to be against soft targets like trucks, and the occasional Soviet light tank.

The speed is similiar (the Il is slightly faster at low altitudes), and IMHO there is not that much difference between the rather throughly armored Ju 87D and Il-2 when it comes to armor protection. On both aircraft crew position was very well armored, as well as the engine and its systems. Obviously the Il is much superior to the old Stuka B. As for rear gun, I prefer the Stuka - lot faster rate of fire, lots of ammo the gunner position is armored as opposed to the Il.

Trefle
08-24-2009, 07:54 PM
IMHO , it would be more correct to compare the Stuka with the Pe-2 or another dive-bomber .

The IL-2 Sturmovik hasn't really got an equivalent in the Axis side since the Germans used different types of planes to do the job of low level straffing/ground attack , like Hs-129 , Fw-190F/G , 110's etc..

The way i see it , the Ilyushin was probably the most effective plane for causing a maximum of military casualties over a mobile frontline in one single sortie , because despite its light bombload , it had a flexibility and abundance of ammunitions plus a legendary toughness/endurance that made it possible to strike precisely the ennemy and its vehicles at different locations on the frontline over a prolonged period within one sortie . Fw-190 jabos or P-47's could do that too , but the IL-2 was really specialized for the task


The Stuka on the other hand is really meant to fly short sorties on the frontline and engage heavily armoured units or ships in dive-bombing raids , Stuka is all about pin point accuracy to support ground troops advance . If you look at the history , Stuka's great days were when the Wehrmacht was on the move advancing , breaking , encircling the opposition . Once the Germans got stuck in a defensive war by 1943 , the Stuka was still quite useful , but not the wonder machine that was so effective the years before in conjunction with ground troops , but that's probably also linked to the loss of skilled aircrew throughout the conflict as well and its lack of speed that became more and more of an issue as the war progressed although Stukas were used and useful until the end .

I have to say that in-game though , it really seems to me that the Stuka is too fragile structurally compared to books , pics and stories i've read about the Stukas who all praised its exeptionnal toughness , i read it was not uncommon for some Stukas to come back crippled by 20mm and 30mm AAA rounds but it's just a subjective impression of mine , i may be wrong , in fact i find the weapons in general in the IL-2 sim to be quite powerful compared to many real life accounts of veterans i've read when there are many stories when planes gets damaged after some tense engagements with the ennemy but still manage to make it home whereas in the IL-2 sim , it's quite rare when it happens . Anyway , perhaps our virtual gunnery accuracy within the sim interface is much better than that of the real pilots back then also http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

na85
08-24-2009, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by Trefle:

in fact i find the weapons in general in the IL-2 sim to be quite powerful compared to many accounts of veterans i've read when there are many stories when planes gets damaged after some tense engagements with the ennemy but still manage to make it home whereas in the IL-2 sim , it's quite rare when it happens . Anyway , perhaps our virtual gunnery accuracy within the sim interface is much better than that of the real pilots back then also http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Actually I think it's pretty realistic. You only hear about the ones that made it back to give an interview about it years later (the exceptional cases, if you will. But there were many who got hammered and spiraled down to the earth, never to tell the tale.

deskpilot
08-25-2009, 01:54 PM
Hey it's ALLORNOTHING117 on Dads profile, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif. I haven't flown either much but heres my thoughts anyway.

I think the Stuka is more fun to fly and I fly it more often then the IL-2. It's unique and has a lot of charactor. The IL-2 is more versitile I recon, but the Stuka is fun and unique http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

KG26_Alpha
08-25-2009, 03:07 PM
Hmm In IL2 1946 the Sturmovik wins hands down as a single combat aircraft.

Takes ground fire and air to air very well, has a huge soft and hard target load out, 3M especially.

G1 Stuka in IL2 is just wrong needs cannons sorting out.

D2 great with the Stuvi dive bombing fast and 20mm canons for strafing.

B2 great with a schwarm of them attacking a target.

In RL they can't really be compared unless you compare them in tank busting roles G1 v 3M maybe.

Survivability, IL2 is the toughest in game but was easy meat in RL just as the Stuka was if caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.

iL2fan
08-26-2009, 10:58 AM
I shot down an F6F with an il23M


....Online...

major_setback
08-27-2009, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by iL2fan:
I shot down an F6F with an il23M


....Online...

From memory - It's nice to see those big fast planes overshoot and then turn too quickly, banking so those nice big wings show in front of your IL2 cannons.
They don't know what hits them.

Online here too :-)