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eddiemac0
11-17-2004, 07:31 PM
Well that's just the thing, I can't seem to. Normally, on touchdown, my rear gear rips off, or instants before it, my nose drops sharply and I crash. How slow should I be/what kind of AOA on touchdown, etc.? My field landings suck in general and any tips there would be appreciated. Smashing carrier-grade landing gear into the deck is a little different from rolling to a stop. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif P.S. Any help in regards to closing distance in a dogfight's long bank is appreciated as well. Thanks all!

eddiemac0
11-17-2004, 07:31 PM
Well that's just the thing, I can't seem to. Normally, on touchdown, my rear gear rips off, or instants before it, my nose drops sharply and I crash. How slow should I be/what kind of AOA on touchdown, etc.? My field landings suck in general and any tips there would be appreciated. Smashing carrier-grade landing gear into the deck is a little different from rolling to a stop. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif P.S. Any help in regards to closing distance in a dogfight's long bank is appreciated as well. Thanks all!

Chuck_Older
11-17-2004, 07:33 PM
Your other post got deleted somehow. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

this is what I had tried to post about landing, and on the topic of catching up to your target:
*************************************
Whew, not very simple questions!


1 and 2 seem related to me. When landing, you must know how to do certain things, or at the very least, know of them. I would suggest practising this:

Learn to change altitude with the throttle, not with the joystick. You should be landing quite slowly, first of all. In this landing configuration, you should be able to maintain altitude consistently, and then change your arte of climb or descent with the trottle: more throttle, you climb, less, you descend. Learn to do this smoothly and slowly to descend, or at least be aware of the principle, and you may find your landings are a bit easier. Sounds to me you're coming in at too great an angle, and too fast

On 3, well, there are books written on the subject, literally.

Consider a few manuevers, like the high and low yo-yo. Basically, you are behind the target and can't pull a lead on him, or can't keep up in the turn, or you can't catch him. An option is to climb, or dive, and either roll in his direction out of the climb to pounce on him, or use the speed you gain in the dive to catch him. of course, I can't recommend either of those, not really knowing the problem you're having.

In a turning pursuit, you have two initial options:

Lead pursuit (not like a lead pipe or Led Zeppelin, Lead as in "leader")
and
Lag pursuit

Lead pursuit means your nose is ahead of his plane in the turn, basically. You are trying to 'cut the corner' or "lead" him, and travel a shorter distance in the turn that he is. That can make you catch up, but your angle of intercept may be high and that means a high deflection shot sometimes

Lag pursuit means you fall behind the enemy on purpose. You travel a slightly further distance, but you may lose less speed and energy in the turn. Also, your shot at him will tend to be a lower deflection if you get in range

I recommend you read up on any Air Combat Manuevering tactics you can; real-world techniques apply here

Oilburner_TAW
11-17-2004, 07:36 PM
You are landing waaaaay to fast. I don't look at my speed (I land by feel), but I've found the P-38 likes a real shallow approach with full flaps. This plane seems to want to bounce like no other, so as soon as I touch down I pull the flaps up all the way. If you are flying the L then rememeber you have an airbrake to help you slow down. Good Luck.

eddiemac0
11-17-2004, 07:41 PM
How fast should I come in? I think I've got the approach shallow enough though: could it be that my nose is too high on touchdown?

Chuck_Older
11-17-2004, 07:51 PM
Could be too high, it's a tricycle gear plane, and I'm not sure how the game engine handles that.

Record your landin on a track and watch to see if you're nose-high

As for speed, go up to 10K feet and see what speed you stall at flying straight and level, with flaps and gear down.

Stay above that speed when you land, just a little http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

mortoma
11-17-2004, 09:26 PM
I land the P-38 slowly, approach at about 180Kph and land at about 130KPh ( touchdown speed ). I never resort to shallow approaches or retracting flaps right away on touchdown, nor any similar nonsense. For one thing, that's not the way real aircraft are landed. The thing one guy in this thread said about bouncy landings does not hold true if you land her correctly, I can land the P-38 so smoothly you can barely tell when the wheels touch the ground, no bounce at all. And pretty much all of the aircraft in FB/AEP/PF can be landed pretty closely to the way they were landed in RL too. But never, ever retract your flaps until you are at taxi speed or close to it. Let the flaps help to slow you down!! There always seems to be a lot of bad advice handed out around here. But as far as landing, the best advice you'll get is from real life pilots.

VW-IceFire
11-17-2004, 09:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eddiemac0:
How fast should I come in? I think I've got the approach shallow enough though: could it be that my nose is too high on touchdown? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm always over the airfield just as it drops from 200 to 190kph IAS. Keep your nose slightly high...because of game physics, the front wheel causes alot of bounce so you want to cushion ever so slightly onto the rear wheels and the nose will touch down.

Its a slight angle. Practice it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

eddiemac0
11-17-2004, 10:21 PM
umm, this is kind of embarressing, but I think I figured out part of my problem. I would pause the game an instant before touchdown and check my angle in external and then reference it against the cockpit view. Well, when I unpaused the game, the control surfaces would reset and I would nose into the ground or manage to pull up jerkily and rip my rear wheels off when I touched. Going back and watching the tracks I made, I realized I'd "paused and smashed" on most of my unsuccessful landings.

wickedpenguin
11-17-2004, 11:49 PM
LOL, that IS embrassasing.

Regardless, here's some real-life procedures for landing.

I'm learning to fly in a Cessna 172, and while it's not a high performance WWII fighter by any stretch of the imagination (except my flight instructor on occasion!), the general technique for putting it on the ground applies. You just need to manage your power settings and understand how different flap settings will alter your angle of descent.

Here goes:

When you are on the downwind leg of your traffic pattern (in other words, flying in the direction opposite to the one you'll be landing in) you should be at a low cruise power. (in the Cessna it's 2100 rpm).

Once the end of the runway is directly to your left or right, throttle back some, lower your gear, and drop your first stage of flaps. In the Cessna, the power setting would be 1900rpm. However, continue to hold altitude! This will let your airspeed bleed off.

Once the end of the runway is 45 deg behind you to your left or right, make your turn on to the base leg of the pattern. Reduce power another couple hundred rpm, drop another stage of flaps, and begin your descent.

When you turn final, drop the last stage of flaps and reduce power even further. Point the plane at the exact part of the runway where you want to land, and adjust power as needed arrive at that point. With full flaps, you will descend with a nose-down attitude.

Once you cross the threshold, pull your power to idle, but keep coming down. When you get like 10-15 feet off the runway, bring the nose to the horizon and let the airspeed bleed off. The airplane will sink as it loses lift, so raise the nose just as the main wheels get close so that you don't land on the nosewheel.

After the main gear touches, keep holding back full elevator. This puts all the weight of airplane on the mains so improve braking (only the main gear have brakes) and bleed off the speed.

--------------

If you are landing with NO flaps, your descent will be much shallower, your speed will be slightly higher, and your angle of attack will be slightly nose up all the way down.

--------------

Seriously, if you're already making carrier traps, this should be cake!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VFA-195 Snacky
11-17-2004, 11:55 PM
You don't land the P38 you fly it to the ground.

mortoma
11-18-2004, 07:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
I land the P-38 slowly, approach at about 180Kph and land at about 130KPh ( touchdown speed ). I never resort to shallow approaches or retracting flaps right away on touchdown, nor any similar nonsense. For one thing, that's not the way real aircraft are landed. The thing one guy in this thread said about bouncy landings does not hold true if you land her correctly, I can land the P-38 so smoothly you can barely tell when the wheels touch the ground, no bounce at all. And pretty much all of the aircraft in FB/AEP/PF can be landed pretty closely to the way they were landed in RL too. But never, ever retract your flaps until you are at taxi speed or close to it. Let the flaps help to slow you down!! There always seems to be a lot of bad advice handed out around here. But as far as landing, the best advice you'll get is from real life pilots. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually I'm changing the approach speed to 190-200kph and the touchdown speed to 140kph. At 130kph the tail is nearly scraping the ground, a bit too slow.

VW-IceFire
11-18-2004, 07:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
I land the P-38 slowly, approach at about 180Kph and land at about 130KPh ( touchdown speed ). I never resort to shallow approaches or retracting flaps right away on touchdown, nor any similar nonsense. For one thing, that's not the way real aircraft are landed. The thing one guy in this thread said about bouncy landings does not hold true if you land her correctly, I can land the P-38 so smoothly you can barely tell when the wheels touch the ground, no bounce at all. And pretty much all of the aircraft in FB/AEP/PF can be landed pretty closely to the way they were landed in RL too. But never, ever retract your flaps until you are at taxi speed or close to it. Let the flaps help to slow you down!! There always seems to be a lot of bad advice handed out around here. But as far as landing, the best advice you'll get is from real life pilots. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually I'm changing the approach speed to 190-200kph and the touchdown speed to 140kph. At 130kph the tail is nearly scraping the ground, a bit too slow. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah I have to agree. Hitting the ground at 130kph is too slow in my book, although if you are going to do it, the P-38 is the best plane in this entire game...it doesn't sink or stall as easily as others.

I usually hit at 180...or higher. Course I'm used to FW190 landings http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif