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View Full Version : Absolulty amazing Fw190 in Fs2004 - with very good performance data



Kwiatos
07-19-2005, 06:39 AM
Just look.
http://www.shockwaveproductions.com/store/fw190/


Follow the links about performance Fw190:

http://www.shockwaveproductions.com/store/fw190/tactical_trials.htm

http://www.shockwaveproductions.com/store/fw190/aircraft_source_data.htm

http://www.shockwaveproductions.com/store/fw190/fw190a3.htm

etc...

Maby Oleg M. could borrow from them some suorces http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

alert_1
07-19-2005, 07:25 AM
Nice! I especially LOVE the sentence:"The sighting view is approximately half a ring (of deflection) better than that from the Spitfire."
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

BBB_Hyperion
07-19-2005, 07:30 AM
Well forward view looks fine .) Documents are little low performance output as i saw for a8.

VW-IceFire
07-19-2005, 07:30 AM
From the site:

The Fw 190 is very much a "Pilot's" aircraft. It will reward the skilled operator, but will turn on the novice with great malice. It boasts superb control harmony and is very maneuverable, however, beware the accelerated stall. The aircraft will whip into a spin with almost no warning and recovery is quite challenging. Aileron turns are this aircraft's forte, but the actual turn rate is far less than a Spitfire, and comparable to a Mustang. The aircraft can outroll most of its competition but the stall characteristics make it difficult to turn with an adversary.
I can out turn Mustangs in PF. I don't see anything startling.

BBB_Hyperion
07-19-2005, 07:32 AM
Which Mustangs, which FWs have track ?

Bearcat99
07-19-2005, 07:46 AM
Is that another one of those $29 MS aircraft.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

ucanfly
07-19-2005, 08:23 AM
Anyone get this payware? How much of the cockpit is clickable and how does it fly? How is the torque and the spin characteristics?

harryklein66
07-19-2005, 08:27 AM
Well we can have the same forwardview in IL2, just pull some G http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/harryklein/FWfwview.jpg

PapaFly
07-19-2005, 08:39 AM
Holy smoke! not bad at all. one thing though...they forgot to add the BAR, for whatever reason.

Kwiatos
07-19-2005, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by ucanfly:
Anyone get this payware? How much of the cockpit is clickable and how does it fly? How is the torque and the spin characteristics?

Actually Fw-190 addon is not yet for download - will be in a few days.

For my experience from P-51 addon by Shockwave for Fs2004:
- very good engine and other plane's system managment (fuel,flaps, radiator etc)
- very good visual moddeling with cocpit clickable
- very good FM including torque effect, stall charactersitic, etc
- bad spin moddeling because Fs2004 not moddeled spin in good way - its limitation of game engine


I with my mates made some dogfghits in addon planes - P-51 and Yak-3 in Fs2004 and i must say that i like it much better then similar dogfhits in FB/PF beacuse of higher level difficulty in flying in Fs2004.
Of course FS2004 is only for flying not for dogfight without DM,shoting etc but it would be fantastic when planes from FB/PF would fly like P-51 and Yak-3 (probably Fw190) from addons.

MOhz
07-19-2005, 09:45 AM
Sorrz guys, but since when is the A4 the fastest of the FWs?? And was the F8 not the weakest armoreed of the F series?

ucanfly
07-19-2005, 10:01 AM
I have to say that even with the new FM FS2004 still feels more convincing to me in the normal flight regimes if you get the right aircraft. Pity that that same feeling is not quite achieved in any combat sim that I have flown. Even the new IL2 FMs feel artificial to me (although harder) as if the plane is being dragged by the nose by a string attached to a spring. It's a little too hard to stabilize the nose in a dogfight and a little too easy to recover from rather rough handling in the "slatted" aircraft. Added to that the visibility problem of the disappearing LODs and limited head positions, make the IL2 series frustrating to me at times.

I have given up on Oleg addressing LOD visibility,proper head position, and overly dark skies in FB, so I hope that BOB eradicates those problems and Oleg finds a way to build a more convincing (not just harder) FM.

In the meantime if I want to dogfight I choose FB, if I want to simulate flight and complex flight systems I choose MS2004.

stubby
07-19-2005, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by ucanfly:

I have given up on Oleg addressing LOD visibility,proper head position, and overly dark skies in FB, so I hope that BOB eradicates those problems

You obviously don't have Tir 3 Pro. PF 4.01m + TiR 3 Pro - perfect viewing system. Better than any flight sim I've flown to date. No issues such as you describe in the version of Il2 FB+AEP+PF. You must be using hat switch to pan no wonder you think the viewing system sucks.

BSS_Goat
07-19-2005, 11:26 AM
So, how are the guns?

han freak solo
07-19-2005, 11:38 AM
That looks like a nice Fw.

Imagine what FB/AEP/PF would cost at $29.99 per plane! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
07-19-2005, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by MOhz:
Sorrz guys, but since when is the A4 the fastest of the FWs?? And was the F8 not the weakest armoreed of the F series?

A4 was NOT the fastest and the F8 was the BEST armored as it was designed for jabo.


TB

Grue_
07-19-2005, 11:41 AM
Kwiatos, do you have the RealAir Spit XIV? If this 190 is as good as that I'd probably get it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'll wait for some reviews though.

LeadSpitter_
07-19-2005, 11:44 AM
It looks very good kwaitos, They definatly need better skinners, they should also throw 30-50 polygons on making the bmw engine instead of a flat plate with a picture. Other then that its a perfect looking model and its so great not having octagon spinners and other sqaure parts.

Dont get to fond of it when its out, its really nice to see well documented ac with excellent real sounds and detail, it will make you dislike this game alot more and more.

If they documented ac like that i think we would have a happy satisfied community instead of you is wrong.

Grue_
07-19-2005, 11:54 AM
Good point about providing source info and instructions with new PF planes.

Hopefully they will with BoB.

carguy_
07-19-2005, 11:54 AM
Holey moley! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
That is quite amazing!
Kinda strange all but one FW190 are those modelled in IL2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Anyways,IL2 is 4 years old http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

carguy_
07-19-2005, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
If they documented ac like that i think we would have a happy satisfied community instead of you is wrong.

LMAO http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

VW-IceFire
07-19-2005, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by BBB_Hyperion:
Which Mustangs, which FWs have track ?
P-51D models in a FW190A-8. There is little to choose from but I can usually pull lead on a Mustang with my speed high. Not sure about that in 4.01 yet...not enough stick time against Mustangs.

The Mustang of course just has to drop his speed to 300 or so and pop his combat flaps and he wins but if the simple question is: "Can you out turn a Mustang in a combat attack at proper FW190 attack speed?" The answer is yes.

Maybe I haven't met any good Mustang pilots and shot them down http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

jugent
07-19-2005, 02:40 PM
I suspect that Maddox team dont give german planes in general and The FW in particular, good flight performance.
Take the lowlevelmark discussion about the REVI-sight of the FW as and indication of it.

han freak solo
07-19-2005, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by BSS_Goat:
So, how are the guns?
http://www.lssdigital.com/Clint%20and%20FS2004.jpg

ucanfly
07-19-2005, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by stubby:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ucanfly:

I have given up on Oleg addressing LOD visibility,proper head position, and overly dark skies in FB, so I hope that BOB eradicates those problems

You obviously don't have Tir 3 Pro. PF 4.01m + TiR 3 Pro - perfect viewing system. Better than any flight sim I've flown to date. No issues such as you describe in the version of Il2 FB+AEP+PF. You must be using hat switch to pan no wonder you think the viewing system sucks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is dangerous to assume my friend. The LODS , sky color, and head position in the translational axes have nothing to do with the view system.

BTW , I use mouse view and newview.

Facts 1
Assumers 0

BBB_Hyperion
07-20-2005, 05:14 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB_Hyperion:
Which Mustangs, which FWs have track ?
P-51D models in a FW190A-8. There is little to choose from but I can usually pull lead on a Mustang with my speed high. Not sure about that in 4.01 yet...not enough stick time against Mustangs.

The Mustang of course just has to drop his speed to 300 or so and pop his combat flaps and he wins but if the simple question is: "Can you out turn a Mustang in a combat attack at proper FW190 attack speed?" The answer is yes.

Maybe I haven't met any good Mustang pilots and shot them down http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats true but the guys here like to ride on sustained turn times . In fact you can outturn any plane with a energy advantage for a short time .)

WOLFMondo
07-20-2005, 05:49 AM
Originally posted by jugent:
I suspect that Maddox team dont give german planes in general and The FW in particular, good flight performance.
Take the lowlevelmark discussion about the REVI-sight of the FW as and indication of it.

That fishing BS http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Never stopped me from enjoying a flight in an FW190. The FW190 if Fb is everything I've ever read about - very fast, good acceleration, great climb at the right angle of attack, poor turn, good elevators, good guns, tough, a ***** to learn to fly well, **** over 6000m.

Some of the best online pilots are FW190 flyers, i'd say partly down to skill and having a great tool to use that skill with.

Michcich_303
07-20-2005, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Is that another one of those $29 MS aircraft.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

It`s about value, and not neccessarily about cost, Bearcat. If being cheap is Oleg`s planes` only advantage than you guys need to go back to your drawing board in terms of what should be this sim`s main purpose...

carguy_
07-20-2005, 08:08 PM
I`m doing good with all FW190.No dogfighting but success overall.It sux though.The last thing -exceptional elevator authority- has been taken away from FW190.It has returned to hit&run tactics.It is not even a B&Z bird.

Antons were better than Me109 in beta patch but that changed back to normal.
In WWII FW190 used to be called the best WWII fighter let alone better than any obsolete Me109.

The Dora is great,though there is no sense in taking it since we have K4,G10 and G14.

Any 109 outclasses same year 190.

That is just wrong.

FritzGryphon
07-20-2005, 08:23 PM
Looks pretty http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But even I have to comment on the dreaded bar. It doesn't cover any of the gunsight. It even matches the view seen in photographs.

Either the Shockwave crew didn't do their homework, or perhaps *gasp* the IL-2 one is wrong.

http://members.shaw.ca/evilgryphon3/fwfore.jpg

msalama
07-22-2005, 03:22 AM
If they documented ac like that i think we would have a happy satisfied community instead of you is wrong.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But you're absolutely right, of course. This community is largely made up of technical / historical sticklers (me included, be sure) who'd just _love_ to see what exactly is Oleg's / 1C's interpretation of "real"!!!

But nah - can't seemingly have that, so you is wrong will most likely prevail...

WOLFMondo
07-22-2005, 04:12 AM
Originally posted by carguy_:
I`m doing good with all FW190.No dogfighting but success overall.It sux though.The last thing -exceptional elevator authority- has been taken away from FW190.It has returned to hit&run tactics.It is not even a B&Z bird.

Antons were better than Me109 in beta patch but that changed back to normal.
In WWII FW190 used to be called the best WWII fighter let alone better than any obsolete Me109.

The Dora is great,though there is no sense in taking it since we have K4,G10 and G14.

Any 109 outclasses same year 190.

That is just wrong.

Will have to agree to disagree cause I think the 190's are currently the best fighter planes in FB/PF with the right guy behind the stick. 1 on 1 there not to great against 109's but 2 on 2 I'd put my money on the 190's.

Xiolablu3
07-22-2005, 09:15 AM
In any 'same year' planesets the FW190's rule.

The only thing the 109 does better is turning circle and maybe climb.

Notice the FW190 vs Spit vs P38 tests carried out in the US on one of those data sheets.

In Level flight at 2000 feet, 'FW190 was ahead, Spit IX very close behind and the P38 400 metres behind after 2 minutes'(!)

karost
07-22-2005, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by Michcich_303:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Is that another one of those $29 MS aircraft.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

It`s about value, and not neccessarily about cost, Bearcat. If being cheap is Oleg`s planes` only advantage than you guys need to go back to your drawing board in terms of what should be this sim`s main purpose... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well ,That is a good news for LW friends http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.shockwaveproductions.com/store/fw190/default_files/image024.gif

when I see this view , make me belive,... why TOPGUN of WWII was JG26

for me , $29 for a single plane with close to a concerning history is look make sense! for a old hand like me/us
..... hummm ok... I'll buy it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Bearcat99, MS2004 have something that IL2/FB/AEP/FP did not have ... do you know what ?
that is a "Cross wind take off and landing" please try it more you will know why many real life pilots in history lose his life for under estimate this factor.. they have only one chance , but we have "refly button"

S!

Jagdgeschwader2
07-23-2005, 08:07 PM
I purchased the WoP 190 today and I can say without a doubt it has met my expectations. The sound is amazing as is the flight model. The WoP 190 gives me a real sense of danger during takeoff and landing. It is totally unforgiving of mistakes at low altitudes. The stall seems more violent. I've only flown the A-8 so far so I'm off to do more testing. It's definitely on par with the Real Air Spitfire. I noticed a bug with one of the skins and the vertical speed indicator flickers a little. Oh well bugs in everything these days. Even though there is no combat I find it quite entertaining
and a refreshing change.

Bar! I don't need no stinking bar!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jagdgeschwader26/sitebuilder...lderpictures/weq.jpg (http://home.earthlink.net/~jagdgeschwader26/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/weq.jpg)

http://home.earthlink.net/~jagdgeschwader26/sitebuilder...ilderpictures/ty.jpg (http://home.earthlink.net/~jagdgeschwader26/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/ty.jpg)

http://home.earthlink.net/~jagdgeschwader26/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/jagdgeschwader2s.jpg

faustnik
07-23-2005, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:

Will have to agree to disagree cause I think the 190's are currently the best fighter planes in FB/PF with the right guy behind the stick. 1 on 1 there not to great against 109's but 2 on 2 I'd put my money on the 190's.

Yep, the Wulf is a pack hunter. Use it that way and you can dominate. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

TX-Gunslinger
07-24-2005, 02:16 AM
Well, before I get started, Kwiatos thanks for posting the links...

I was going to post a few "real" Anton cockpit shots, put them up against some from the IL2 series, and demonstrate which cockpit graphics most accurately represent the series. But I don't feel like going to the trouble, because if you have'nt already caught all the errors in relative dimensions, and details from the "advertising" shots on the Shockwave web site then you probably don't pay attention to detail or don't fly the FW-190 much.

That cockpit, IMHO is just butt-freakin-ugly and looks like a commercial A/C which has been modified to look sort of like an FW cockpit. Colors, materials etc.. etc... Do you guys see the "squareness" of the cockpit cowling? Lack of detail on the side panels, instruments laid out incorrectly?

It amazes me every single time that I look at the pit that Oleg built several years ago. It has lasted better and lived longer than any other pit in this sim. Yes, some of the new pits are better, but none have the feeling and functionality of the FW series in IL2. It's the easiest to read and things are located more conviently that any other pit in the series. It's pure function.

Sure, I'd love to see it updated and improved. I'd like to see all the same things happen to that pit, that ALL long-time FW drivers in this sim would. But you know what? That would'nt make anyone fight or fly any better.

Can't see over the cockpit bar? Spend a nite collecting Hispano holes in your wings, and you can see real good where you could'nt before...

Focke-Wulf....Otto Kittel...Rudolf Rademacher...Josef Priller...Addi Glunz...Killing Mustangs....Exploding Spitfires...Fillet-o-P38....Skip Bombing....sharing the 151/20 love with your fellow simmers.....750 kmh bounces....keeping your wings and aileron's in an 850kmh dive while evading a P-47. Double attack, Loose Deuce - Energy Fighting...

That's what a Focke-Wulf is for, not shooting approaches into San Diego....
Kurt Tank is rolling over in his grave...be sure..

The FS2004 flight models should be better than IL2. That's all that sim does. No weapons effects, no ground attack, no online adjudication of scoring, no COMBAT. There is a whole realm of physics and function that it does'nt address.

I imagine that a bunch of fellows were sitting around at Shockwave one day looking at future projects for the FS series and the conversation perhaps went like this:

Shockwave Manager - "So what kind of WWII fighter can we build as an add-on that would sell? Most of the CFS2 and CFS3 simmers have gone over to that **** Russian thing."

Shockwave Marketer - "Well I have good news. An analysis of UBI forums over the last three years has yielded some large dissatisfaction with 1C's product line. In particular, IL2 simmers are very unhappy with three major areas"

"One - .50 calibre armed aircraft - 16,230 angry posts"
"Two - 151/20mm armed aircraft - 17,100 angry posts"
"Three - The Focke Wulf series "Cockpit Bar" - 55,726 angry posts, 17 death threats, 520 pictures of Focke-Wulf cockpits from every angle AND 15 Gigabytes of historical documents on the series...."

Manager - "Can you build an FW-190 cockpit? Even more to the point, can you build it in 3 days? I'm getting kind of tired of you guys. That last idea you folks had of a 'peaceful' mod to Doom3 where the monsters and weapons were all taken out, did'nt pan out to say the least!"

Shockwave Software Engineer - "Well if you have to have it that fast and cheap, then we won't have time to research more than 3 pages of the several thousand historical documents that are over on the UBI site, and you know their search engine was busted last time I was over there..."

"We could add some stuff to one of the Cessna cockpits. Draw some framing in, a few buttons here, a few buttons there. But Boss, no-one would buy that over on those forums. Those guys are tough!"

Marketer - "Could you just put a gunsight up on the Cessna cockpit? Without the BAR, maybe they'd buy it."

Software Engineer - "We could do that"

Manager - "Then we've got a product, let's get to work. Oh yeah, while your at it make some good engine sounds to go with it"

Software Engineer - "Wait, wait, I've had enough! We don't know what a FW-190 sounds like dammit! The things flew 60 years ago on fuel that is unobtainable now. Old wartime soundtracks don't have enough fidelity to reproduce the engine adequetely. You don't understand boss!"

Manager - "See, Fred, that's why your the worker and I'm the boss. If you don't know what a **** BMW-801 sounds like, then the whiners over on the UBI forums, don't know either! That's the beauty of it all, we'll just put something different in there, and they'll think it's better, cause it's different."


An FW-190 without things to shoot at is like a tiger in a zoo with no teeth forced to eat oatmeal. It's a "BUTCHER-BIRD", not a "PARAKEET".

S~

msalama
07-24-2005, 02:36 AM
The FS2004 flight models should be better than IL2.

Weeell... They sometimes are, but most often not because there's a tendency amongst the FS2004 developers to call any old c**ppy guesswork FM as "accurate", "realistic", "historically correct","hand-tuned to RL behaviour" or what-the-feck-ever.

Also, there're some in-built limitations in the FS2004 physics engine, particularly near the edges of the AC flight envelope. Stalls are decidedly weird in many cases, and just try a flat spin sometimes: plain fuxxing cartwheels all over the sky is what you'll get in most cases!

But then again there're some excellent planes there too...

bzhyoyo
07-24-2005, 03:43 AM
TX-Gunslinger : you're right about the errors in modeling and there is already a thread in one FS forum acknowledging them. One can hope they will be corrected. As to the purpose of the plane, I'm sure all of the people flying warbirds today might disagree.
And as many modelers out there (the guy built it for payware, but he's obviously not a professional modeler), I think the person chose to model the Fw190 for one reason only : he likes the plane.

TX-Gunslinger
07-24-2005, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by bzhyoyo:
TX-Gunslinger : you're right about the errors in modeling and there is already a thread in one FS forum acknowledging them. One can hope they will be corrected. As to the purpose of the plane, I'm sure all of the people flying warbirds today might disagree.
And as many modelers out there (the guy built it for payware, but he's obviously not a professional modeler), I think the person chose to model the Fw190 for one reason only : he likes the plane.

Well, for my own tastes, that post I made last night was a little on the "negative" side, but I tried to balance it with a little humour.

I actually own Shockwave's Firepower for CFS3 and I think they did a fine job. It did'nt make that Sim usuable for me. But, if IL2 was'nt around, I'd probably be flying it.

I saw a Yak that was made by a 3rd party for the FS series last year, and I thought it was one of the most beautiful modeled A/C that I'd ever seen (at least the screenshots were). You could lift the hood and see the engine, and the cockpit was cool. But after I got over the fidelity "draw" of that model, I started to think about what I'd do with it, if I had it. And I realized, not much.

My issues with this Focke-Wulf add-on, really deal with "context" not the fact that someone tried to make it nor that someone purchases it and finds a good use that pleases them. I'm just reacting to the comparisons between "Our" Focke-Wulf, which I have a great deal (maybe too much) of passion for, and another model, in another simulator.

There is nothing like Il2, unfortunately, in the Combat Flight Sim genre.

S~