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leitmotiv
06-29-2006, 07:19 AM
(With experience with IL-2 COMPLETE and Shockwave's "Wings of Power" series)

Which would you say has the most realistic flight model and why?

JG52Karaya-X
06-29-2006, 08:26 AM
I havent tried CFS3 with Firepower but I can tell that the IL2 4.05 FM is very convincing!

I have to say that I was rather disappointed by Il2 from FB1.0 to the late 3.x versions because of the almost non-existant torque and gyro effects (a step-back from the old IL2) but the 4.x series FM is brilliant. For once we have realistic torque which makes the careful use of rudder input/trim a necessity plus the mass of planes seems to make more of an impact to the general stability.

HotelBushranger
06-29-2006, 08:40 AM
A while ago, I brought my merged pack with me to install, unfortunately, I'd left one of the PF cds at home, so we were stuck with 2.xx or 3.xx. Lemme tell you, those planes were on RAILS! They were shocking http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif Thank you Oleg for some realistic FM! (With my limited flying experience http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif)

Xiolablu3
06-29-2006, 08:48 AM
I have never flown a plane before, but I have been a passenger and the 'feeling' of flight is there with IL2 series far more than any other sim I have played.

leitmotiv
06-29-2006, 09:38 AM
The reason I'm asking is because I'm fully up to speed with Oleg's Pe-2 addition and I am challenged to the limit by the FS2004 "Wings of Power" Fw 190 radials, inlines, and P-47. Have also been using RealAir's Spitfire XIV---supposedly the the most detailed WWII FM made. I can't even take off in the 190 radials---I badly wipe out every time! When you mishandle the Spitfire, it clanks and bangs like a jalopy. You can hang your head out beyond your windscreen as you take off. The actual movements and behavior remind me more of real aircraft than anything I've ever used. But I am not a real pilot in any sense. This is why I was hoping to get some feedback on this. My suspicion is that Oleg's B OF BRIT is going to be quite a bit like these models. I'm getting my hand in now to lesson the shock!

WWSensei
06-29-2006, 10:00 AM
In some areas each are superior to the other. In ground handling IL2 comes no where close IMHO. The amount of torque you would feel in this game is probably close to half of what it would be on average across the aircraft. It's better since 4.01 came out but no where near what it should be. I'm talking about initial rollout and runway and not flight however. So, on the ground the nod goes to Wings.

However, in flight, I think IL2 has the edge. In the area of weather Wings gets the nod and in true engine management they win as well. Graphically, I like IL2 better. The sense of speed and inertia is better in IL2 though it doesn't seem quite right.

The sense of combat in IL2, to me, is more accurate (when you are flying in a somewhat historical manner and not just air quake.) Probably has to do with the factor above though, to be honest, I've not been in combat in prop driven aircraft.

leitmotiv
06-29-2006, 10:36 AM
Jackpot---I was hoping to get your opinion, WWSensei! Have any hints on how to get the "Wings of Power" 190 radials off the ground without rolling upside down and smashing-in? I can't get a grip on the beasts! The inlines just want to go straight and bore a hole in the air while wailing like banshees---I am finding them easier to learn.

WWSensei
06-29-2006, 02:13 PM
Takes smoothness. Smooth application of rudder as you smoothly throttle up. Unlike most of the IL2 aircraft where you can throttle from 0-100 in 2-3 seconds with little penalty try taking a 15-20 second transition on the throttle while you apply rudder pressure to keep alignment. Also, make sure to lock the tail wheel as well...haven't flown Wings or CFS3 in ages so can't remember if it does tail wheel lock or not or if I'm just thinking IL2 again...

Scen
06-29-2006, 02:49 PM
I can't tell you the difference between CFS3 and IL2 but I can comment on IL2 as it compares to real flying.

For a PC game it's one of the best out there. There are a few things still missing in some of the stalls but over all it's pretty dang cool. Most of the sims of the past are nothing like real flight and IL2 there's quite a bit going on that gives you the feeling of flight.

slipBall
06-29-2006, 04:31 PM
Both suffer on the ground performance weakness, very disapointing sometimes. Ms2004 is a great flight model, but it is lacking in grafic's, and near ground, and on ground surface behavior. Il-2 with its superb grafic's, and views, suffers from unrealistic flight as to stalls, and acceleration as to takeoff climbing out. The original il-2 is closer to my experiences of flying, but still lacking in some on ground aircraft behavour's

WTE_Galway
06-29-2006, 05:39 PM
there were numerous claim made at the time that FB came out that IL2 had been "dumbed down" and made more arcade like to give it more mass appeal to "air quake" quick fix purchasers

personally I think that conspiracy theory a bit far stretched

certianly compared to the standard FS2002/2004 aircraft Il2 behaves much more like real aircraft (even though I have only flown cessna's and pipers)

leitmotiv
06-29-2006, 08:00 PM
Thanks one and all for the feedback. I am knocking myself out to get a handle on the "Wings of Power" fighters and I wanted to be sure the effort is not being wasted on a fantasy FM! Thanks for the handling tips, WWSensei---yes, you can lock tail wheel with FS2004---you have to go to the full list of of commands to find it under "Tail wheel." I will keep on trying with the radial 190s---I am, at least, getting to be a terrific ground handler from all the times I have to abort take off and go back to my start position! I have had to really tone down my tendency to take off like a B-52 with engine roaring. This will be a good exercise in subtle control. Thanks much! I had to abort in the powerful Ta 152 C and even with brakes I ended up barreling across the landscape (fortunately grass and few trees!) for a mile or so until I could slow the beast down enough for a turn around. Argh.

Xiolablu3
06-29-2006, 09:31 PM
Lietmotiv - I have never played Flight SIm 2004 so I cannot actually comment if its better than Il2 series.

IL2 is definitely dumbed down a little, and it assumes you knwo the real things to do in an aircraft to have it flying smoothly, all this stuff goes on in the 'background' in IL2. (probably not at all really tho http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

I remember Oleg talking about the start up procedure for a real aircraft is 20 steps, but to model this would be ridiculous becasue it would be interesting to 1% of users and almost all would turnt he feature off becasue its interesting once, and then its just a pain to go through it every time you fly.

Oleg and his crew take out the monotonous tasks of flying and let you get down to the enjoyable basics, and combat. I have to say, I think I agree with him.

Personally I would rather him spend another week getting the flight models better or adding controlable anti aircraft guns or making a better campaign, rather than modelling every step for take off into every plane.

leitmotiv
06-30-2006, 07:40 AM
In such distinguished company, I'll risk one dissenting observation (by the way, WWSensei, using your advice I was able to get the Shockwave 190A-3 off the ground in two hair-raising takeoffs which would have gotten me sent to a Luftwaffe Field Division in Russia---but I am getting the idea about slow throttle work and subtle rudder work). In one case I think Shocwave's combat performance trumps Maddox. Having managed to get the Shockwave 190A-3 into the air I was struck by the easy roll and the incredible sensitivity of the aircraft. It was like German engineering does the Poli I-16! Frankly, and I am only a miserable near-sighted book pilot, I thought it behaved more like the reported maneuver performance than the Maddox A-3. Mind you, I am not a 190 exponent---I've never posted any complaints about the Maddox 190A FM, nor joined a complaint thread, but I've always found the Maddox A-3/4 lackluster compared to the actual aircraft which was a holy terror to Spitfire Vs. Have any of you tried RealAir's Spitfire XIV? It is the most amazing WWII-era flight model I've tried. The sound effects are fascinating---when you mishandle the very touchy thoroughbred she rattles like a jalopy. I enjoy these FS9 models because I am spending most of my time cleaning up my virtual flying and learning a great deal about the systems. Can't hurt. I suspect many of the features will be in Oleg's B OF BRIT.

slipBall
07-01-2006, 07:01 AM
No, not yet have I tried RealAir's Spit, but I would like to get it. I don't know if you have the original game IL-2, but the flight model is excellent. It is the closest to real that I have flown in sims. You really should get it if possible, I fly it every week, never getting tired of it.

leitmotiv
07-01-2006, 08:45 AM
Yep, I have the original, and I played it until uprating two years ago. I'll have to try it out again. As some people wrote on another thread, I'm finding FS9 aircraft and IL-2 COMPLETE complementary. Since I am doing more "systems management" and pure flying with FS9, my flying is much better in COMPLETE. I developed some nasty brutish controling habits in COMPLETE which the "Wings of Power" and RealAir Spit are curing. Never fear, there's nothing like COMPLETE for brawling---I just deleted OVER FLANDERS FIELDS because the lame FM in CFS3 was unbearable to me.

Gold_Monkey
07-01-2006, 06:09 PM
I've only flown Cessnas and Pipers and Cessna float planes in real life. How the hell would I know how a WW 2 warbird "handles"