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XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 11:47 AM
I tested the beta version with the RC 01, then i noticed that :

P 51 got : 2 drop bank + bomb (250 500 1000)

A6M5 got : NOTHING..... why ??? where is the central drop bank ??? Moreover in the cokpit there is the part for the drop bank .....and the bomb ?? can we got chance to see it in the final free patch ??? i hope so !!

KI-84 got : NOTHING TOO.............

Hi i just want to have answer to these questions ! This is not a critic just a question because we wait for the Zeke for a long time !!! Thx a lot for your Job on FB !!



SaKai
www.kamikaze.clan.st (http://www.kamikaze.clan.st)
--------------------------
+Tenno Heiki Banza√¬Į+
Marine Impériale Japonaise

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 11:47 AM
I tested the beta version with the RC 01, then i noticed that :

P 51 got : 2 drop bank + bomb (250 500 1000)

A6M5 got : NOTHING..... why ??? where is the central drop bank ??? Moreover in the cokpit there is the part for the drop bank .....and the bomb ?? can we got chance to see it in the final free patch ??? i hope so !!

KI-84 got : NOTHING TOO.............

Hi i just want to have answer to these questions ! This is not a critic just a question because we wait for the Zeke for a long time !!! Thx a lot for your Job on FB !!



SaKai
www.kamikaze.clan.st (http://www.kamikaze.clan.st)
--------------------------
+Tenno Heiki Banza√¬Į+
Marine Impériale Japonaise

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 12:21 PM
and the not droppable 250kg bomb....

Banzaiiiiiiiiiiiiiii......

<center><img src=http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/sighoar.jpg></center>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 02:48 PM
be happy the ki84 is faster then the mustang for now which it shouldnt be and the zero is so strong from .50 cal which it shouldnt be and so much faster then the p40m which the zero should not be, they do need some payload but so does the hurricane which has the racks but no payloads

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XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 02:57 PM
I noticed that Ki84 speed thing as well, I played on a beta patch server and I was unable to out speed those buggers as they were glued to my tail permanently.

I don't know much about the Zeke but this is a late model Zeke since it's a 1943 model and it seems indeed a bit too good to be true.

Even against 4 Ace AI LA5FN's you have no problems with the Zeke.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 03:00 PM
LeadSpitter_ wrote:
- be happy the ki84 is faster then the mustang for now

Are you sure about that Lead? I was able to outrun an '84 in a shallow dive. Maybe the guy chasing me is clueless about CEM. I dunno.



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XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 03:10 PM
the a6m5 was much faster than the a6m2, i'm not sure you took the real a6m5 flying caracteristics into consideration..

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XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 03:13 PM
Quick question, what does CEM mean?

Thanks
Watsup

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 03:14 PM
CEM = Complex Engine Management.

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XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 03:22 PM
"be happy the ki84 is faster then the mustang for now which it shouldnt be and the zero is so strong from .50 cal which it shouldnt be and so much faster then the p40m which the zero should not be"

LeadSpitter,

I admire so your metal templates and your many other contributions to this forum. I will hazard a criticism, however, to you grammar that has been driving me nuts for months and months and months. I don't know if English is your first language and I know it is TOTALLY uncool to comment about people's second language, but it's driving me nuts! Oh, I already said that.

Completely ignore me or take heed to the following and I apologize for my rudeness once more:

"be happy the ki84 is faster THAN the mustang for now which it shouldnt be and the zero is so strong from .50 cal which it shouldnt be and so much faster THAN the p40m which the zero should not be"

Yes, I will go and take my pill now.

EF

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 03:24 PM
Hayate DOES fly faster than Pony and T-Bolt in the middle altitude.

US tested this after war and the porked performance data from Japs is just because they used the low octane fule. And Americans gave Ki84 a US standard high octane fule use for most of American fighters. The result was a real suprise. Hayate flight faster even than P51 in 6100m.

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 12:37 AM
JG54_BSHD wrote:
- Hayate DOES fly faster than Pony and T-Bolt in the
- middle altitude.
-
- US tested this after war and the porked performance
- data from Japs is just because they used the low
- octane fule. And Americans gave Ki84 a US standard
- high octane fule use for most of American fighters.
- The result was a real suprise. Hayate flight faster
- even than P51 in 6100m.

That's really nice but during the war the Japanese DID NOT have this fuel and since this is a simulation that takes place DURING the war it doesn't really seem fair that they are modelled with US standard high octain fuel now is it?

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 02:01 AM
Hoarmurath wrote:
- the a6m5 was much faster than the a6m2, i'm not sure
- you took the real a6m5 flying caracteristics into
- consideration

Much faster? I thought no Zero ever went beyond 350,
or slower than 300.
A6M5 as modelled in 1.2b <<seems>> way too fast for reality.
S!

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XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 04:55 AM
You guys got to be kidding, I can leave either behind without cracking throttle over 100%. Sure sign your yanking the stick to hard.

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 05:05 AM
Ki84 was used as a fighter bomber, and thus had under wing racks for bombs or drop tanks.

Also, as has been pointed out, the Ki84 was faster at low to medium altitude than the P51, even while using the poor grade Japanese fuel.


I agree about the Zero being overly fast, and it's E retention is beyond the pale. It also should not have the same roll rate at high speed as it has at low speed. the ailerons stiffened up considerably above 250mph.

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</img>.
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XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 05:19 AM
OMFG, I just wrote a complete freakin draft on octane ratings and its use in fuels to only recieve the following after previewing the post and clicking post message.

"Board Does Not Exist



The board you are trying to access does not exist. Please check the URL and try again. "

So shove it ubisoft you cheap )(*%)%)^% that refuse to upgrade your board servers and network.

Man that will really ruin your night.

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About after 30 minutes I puked all over my airplane. I said to myself "Man, you made a big mistake." -Charles 'Chuck' Yeager, regards his first flight

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 05:21 AM
Without RC_2.zip, you will find some loadouts attributed to incorrect planes, and in general, some undesired results.

RC_1.zip over 1.2beta (leaked) will "work" but it won't work as intended or as expected.

Just a heads up.

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 05:24 AM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
-
- That's really nice but during the war the Japanese
- DID NOT have this fuel and since this is a
- simulation that takes place DURING the war it
- doesn't really seem fair that they are modelled with
- US standard high octain fuel now is it?
-

They had the fuel, as much as the LW had their 97 octane.

All aircraft in FB are modeled at the peak of their operational capacity. The P-51's laminar flow wings are completely free of flow disrupting bugs and poor jointings and it's ammo boxes are free from belt jamming burs, the 109's DB605D is fed by top quality 97 octane fuel, and is free of imperfections, and the Ki-84a gets 100 octane fuel for its engine, and good steel for its landing gear.

All of their aircraft are operating at their peak, free from the problems brought on by field operations, poor suppies, and the endless quirks and problems the real world brings into the picture.

It is a game. Live with it.

Harry Voyager

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YQDLAswcqmIpvWP9dLzZVayPXOmo6IJ16aURujNfs4dDETH84 Q6eIkCbWQemjqF6O8ZfvzlsvUUauJyy9GYnKM6!o3fu!kBnWVh BgMt3q2T3BUQ8yjBBqECLxFaqXVV5U2kWiSIlq1s6VoaVvRqBy Q/Avatar%202%20500x500%20[final).jpg?dc=4675409848259594077

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 05:39 AM
well said harry! them whiners are gettin on my nerves, damnit. what the hell do you expect? that 1c models different types of fuel??

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 06:14 AM
S!

I am thankful for the addition of any new planes in FB

The problems I see with the Ki84 and A6m5 Zero are:



*The real Zero had NO armor-nada-none.

*It had NO self-sealing fuel tanks.

*It had a very poor dive as a result of light weight construction and low wing loading. It's ailerons stiffened as speeds approached 200mph and got worse as speeds increased resulting in a very poor roll rate and turn at medium and high speeds.

* The Zero's engine performance dropped rapidly as altitude increased over 17,000ft.


As a result the Zero should burn worse than a early Mig or zippo lighter when hit. Also because of the lack of armor and lightweight construction the Zero should lose a wing/break up easily and pilot kills should happen often.

The FB Zero is way too tough to .50cal machine guns. It's too fast (top end) and rolls way too good at speeds over 200mph. It rarely catches fire unless repeatedly hit many times. It's high altitude performance is way too good-over 5500m. Hardly bleeds any energy from constant turning.

_____________________


The real Ki84 was a real low to medium altitude performer. Very maneuverable. It was also used to attack B-29's but was not thought of as a high altitude performer. The defensive armor was inferior (self-sealing fuel tanks/pilot protection) to allied designs and considerd poor.


The FB- Ki84 is tougher than a 190 to bring down with .50cal machine guns. It rarely catches fire or loses a wing. Has little energy bleed while turning. Top end speed needs to be evaluated--.


__





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XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 08:45 AM
For the zero the level speed is preety close to what it should be this is the 1944 model after all,but it's top speed in a dive should be only a little over 400mph before it's wings fall off.In FB I can dive it at 800-820kph TAS before it fails that is much to fast and makes it imposible to dive away from in the p40.

Then you have to look at the rollrate it's "much" to high at speeds over 260mph,also the elevators are very powerfull in highspeed manouvers this is very wrong.


I dont really care if a plane is to fast or to slow as long as the opposition is modeled with it's correct historical advantages or disadvantages.I want to be able to outmanouver a zero at "high speeds" in my p40 and that meens fixing the roll and dive speeds in the zero as well as fixing the porked roll in the p40.

No1RAAF_Pourshot
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XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 10:22 AM
damn right... I know one thing... if Zero is not fixed as it should be and so is P-40 I aint playing FB any more and there's no way I'll buy any future sim from same team /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 03:47 PM
JG46_Max wrote:
- well said harry! them whiners are gettin on my
- nerves, damnit.

Oh I am sooooo sorry that we point out overmodelled issues on Axis aircraft JG46.

Both Jap planes are too good to be true on several levels as several people already pointed out.

But I guess the only whining that is allowed is about Allied planes being too good or about under modelled Axis planes.

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 04:36 PM
LeadSpitter_ wrote:
- be happy the ki84 is faster then the mustang for now
- which it shouldnt be and the zero is so strong from
- .50 cal which it shouldnt be and so much faster then
- the p40m which the zero should not be

Hey Leadspitter, the reisen 52 was faster than the P-40m. the 52c could fly at 564km/hr at 6000m

The P-40M flew at 552km/hr at 4500m

I agree it needs to be toned down with DM a few hits with 50cal should set it alight.

Ki-84 was not faster than the P-51, however, it was more maneuverable.

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XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 04:58 PM
pourshot wrote:
- For the zero the level speed is preety close to what
- it should be this is the 1944 model after all,but
- it's top speed in a dive should be only a little
- over 400mph before it's wings fall off.In FB I can
- dive it at 800-820kph TAS before it fails that is
- much to fast and makes it imposible to dive away
- from in the p40.


That's 400 KNOTS , still if you can reach 800kph then thats too fast.

Over all high sped handling on the Zero sems too good -but this is a beta so i wouldn't worry yet.

One thing to remember about speed :

Most american planes have their top speed at altitude .
the Zero is slow but has almost identical top speed at Sea Level & 15000 ft.

I've been flying the Zero & the damage model seems fine.
Ashort burst can rip off a wing, any hits will likely cause a fuel leak which means you are dead if you can't run back to base. etc etc.

Maybe the ai is les effected b damage or maybe you just need a little more practice. The reason Zeros were easy pray during the late war years was:
1. the lack of trained pilots
2. poor performance at high altitude so US A/C usually entered combat with an advantage.
3. Poor radios & radar to allow proper tactics & positioning.
4. Lone Wolf flying tactics vs US & Allied team tactics.

Remember Sakai managed to allude 15 US Navy Hellcat pilots who had an altitude advantage.

The Zero wasn't always an easy kill.

Head ons work good to take down Zero's , they will go BOOM very suddenly , i know ..

"Where'd that dang 'stang go ? "
BOOM

i didn't even hear the hits, just Kablooy!
it was so FUN!

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 06:14 PM
Cap, there is a difference between whining for something that its outside the capabilities of this sim, and trying to get flightmodels corrected.

The flightmodels of the Ki-84 and A6M I do not know enough to comment on directly, however you were demanding that fuel issues be taken into account, not flightmodel problems. Operational issues are completely outside the scope of this simulation, and frankly there are to many potential operational issues, for them to begin being taken into account for another decade or so.

Stop asking for individual aircraft to be crippled by operational circumstances that did not always exist, while allowing other aircraft to fly in perfect condition. It is unfair to all involved.

Harry Voyager

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XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 07:14 PM
Ugg, I am not a Japanese fighter expert but I do know a few things. Amoung them is the A6M5 Zero did not have a top speed of 300km/h. I don't think an A6M prototype performed that bad. The A6M5 was not a fast or durable plane but she was highly manueverable at low to medium speeds (less than 400 km/h) and had a good climb rate. You can't dispute this, this is what every single legitimate source (such as Janes) says about it. It's prime disadvantages were slow top speed for 1943, a complete lack of armour and no self-sealing fuel tanks. All three of these are modeled. The Zero in FB leaks fuel until no fuel remains if and only if the tanks are hit. The pilot dies with 1 hit to the cockpit from almost anything and the top speed sucks for 1943. The A6M5 goes 450km/h @ SL in FB, the P-47D-10 goes 540km/h @ SL in FB. If you can't outrun an A6M5 Zero with a 1943 fighter then there is something wrong with the way you are flying. But what about the P-40's. The P-40M is a 1942 fighter, not a 1943 fighter. Earlier versions of the Zero were much slower and so the P-40's were slightly faster in their day. Even in a P-40M vs A6M5 fight, the P-40M can give it a pretty good run if flown to its strengths.

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XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 07:39 PM
Hi

Interesting how many old veterans we have on the board.

Sure, they know exactly how a plane should fly.

Can i read this in books too ?

I have a few books, but the problem is, that in every book i read another storys about performence from planes ect.


I wish i could fly a real Zeke, P40, 109 ect.

Then i know the performence and flying charactaristics from these planes too .

What a shame that i can never fly this birds in reality !

Then i could compare the real planes with the FB planes./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif





Message Edited on 11/08/0306:53PM by JG53_Boomer

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 08:01 PM
i cant believe it but HarryVoyager ht the nail exactly dead center on the head

thats exactly the way it is in FB

HarryVoyager wrote:
- All of their aircraft are operating at their peak,
- free from the problems brought on by field
- operations, poor suppies, and the endless quirks and
- problems the real world brings into the picture.


sure the Zero & Mustang & KI are a little too good ....... but most 1.2 players have a Beta that no-one was meant to have

changes are coming for sure

some ppl seem to want planes in FB that they like to be invincible

all planes can be kill & be used to kill with

& the Zero WASNT a easy kill , you had to keep your distance & BnZ it with precision

just as you have to use precision in any kill

as it is in this Beta .... the P-40 currently catches fire more eaisly than the Zero ( just hit the motor area on the P-40 )

but the Zero blows up completely more eaisly

in FB we see a lot of planes simply go BOOM with only tiny bits left , how realistic is that ?

its a regular occurance !

surely they should ctch on fire a lot more regularly IMO

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 10:34 PM
Maddox Team may already test some on certain themselves and only give beta stuff is test performace on flight, dropping, takeoff in different computers to see how it reaction to model then fix it.

Regards
SnowLeopard