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View Full Version : Oleg...please check pitch values on Mustang



Grey_Mouser67
08-26-2005, 08:01 PM
I am making the request due to the instability of the aircraft in pitch...yaw has gotten all the attention since 4.01 but pitch is what is breaking wings, creating an unstable gun platform and destroying aim and HMG's effectiveness.

I ran into a situation that illustrates this as best as I can describe it...Altitude about 3000 meters and I'm in a shallow dive with a P-51B mustang...I trim it down all the way to try and kill the pitch as I B&Z a Fw...I get a couple of hits but my plane is still pitching at this speed so I pull out at 600km/hr approximately and I'm actually able to black myself out! I have trim on a rotary knob on my X-45 so I know it was all the way down.

I don't think this was how the plane was meant to be and at high speeds it becomes totally unstable in pitch. I have found no other plane that can black out with trim all the way down..but I didn't test them all.

Please check this out as there may be some errors in programming. I can't find anything that represents the Mustang as anything but a good diving, good gun platform that was easy to fly, manuever and shoot with so I am assuming there may be a value or two programmed in error.

Thanks for your consideration.

Von_Zero
08-26-2005, 08:16 PM
provided it's not something releated to your joystick, i think you are actually asking for a reduction in elevator authority... it's a twitchy subject http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Grey_Mouser67
08-26-2005, 09:02 PM
Yes...but pitch is more than elevator authority...it is like yaw except in a longitudinal axis...planes like the P-39 and Mig were known to pitch...

Some call it instataneous turn....problem is that I believe it to be way overdone...you can reduce the pitch without destroying the fighters high speed elevator authority.

In addition, I've posted this before, the Mustang and a few other aircraft oscillate...the pitch needs to be dampened...that is the term I use that describes who many oscillations and what distance the nose of the aircraft travels before settling in once a control surface is moved.

The Fw, for example, has great high speed elevator authority with a fairly good amount of pitch but the elevator is heavily dampened...you can pull awesome high speed gunnery passes with it and while the wing breaks off too, not nearly so unexpectedly and you can not black it out if you recreate the above conditions.

The Mustang is erroneous...it should have great, if not best in class elevator authority...but is should be stable at speed and is not and you sure shouldn't be able to black it out...all that elevator authority is useless if you are blacked out or your wing comes off due to G's.

ColoradoBBQ
08-27-2005, 01:02 AM
The pitch works fine on my computer, takes about 17-22 clicks to level out the plane at 600 kph. Conduct a test where you look at the pitch wheel on the left side and see if the wheel rolls all the way around when you turn the rotary.

willyvic
08-27-2005, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by ColoradoBBQ:
The pitch works fine on my computer, takes about 17-22 clicks to level out the plane at 600 kph. Conduct a test where you look at the pitch wheel on the left side and see if the wheel rolls all the way around when you turn the rotary.

Colorado, I think you are talking about the TRIM wheel. The original poster is speaking in regards to the yoke and an inherent nose stability issue.

ColoradoBBQ
08-27-2005, 11:36 AM
Oh, that problem http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif. There's a hardware setup in FB that allows you to adjust the amount of pitch to allow for more stable high speed flight. The default values are only acceptable for low speed dogfighting.

Grey_Mouser67
08-30-2005, 08:21 PM
a shameless bump...and for the unbelievers...try the following.

Set up QMB's for Bf 109F-4 or G-2 with lots of targets...say 4 vs 8 and keep track of your kills over say 10 missions.

Now do the same with a P-38J with the same enemies and look at the number of kills vs ammo expended...that might be the hard part.

Now think about the power of 1 20mm mauser in conjuction with 2 7.62mm LMG's firing through a propeller arc....against 1 hispano and 4 .50 cal HMG's with no propeller arc

The energy and killing force generated by the Lightning is more than double the Messerschmitt...probably about 210% I'm guessing without the benefit of a calculator.

You'll quickly notice that you wont get double the kills for the same amount of ammo expended.

The original post was about the mustang...but the P-38 has the same issue...the gun shake has been toned down and if you can hold the guns on the target, the Lightning really obliterates it...problem is, it is 10X easier to hold on target due to pitch and dampening with the Messer so the effectiveness of the weapons are very similar to the Lightning even though there is a big difference in firepower.