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BSS_CUDA
09-07-2006, 07:00 AM
http://dcartnews.blogspot.com/2006/08/great-gray-lady-sunk-unless-you.html



Tuesday, August 08, 2006
A Great Gray Lady Sunk

Unless you consider the drama of the event as some sort of mega performance, this has little to do with the visual arts as we understand it (I think), but here it is nonetheless, as it packs some pretty powerful visuals for me:

I got this from an old Navy friend:

"Ex-USS Belleau Wood (LHA-3) was sunk by USS Mobile Bay as part of a Navy exercise. They fired the first Harpoon at her yesterday and today EOD (Navy Seals) set off bombs. It only took an hour after that, but previously she had been taking hits all day yesterday from the other ships.... she just wouldn't sink.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/CUDA97045/Belleau%20Wood/bw-lha3-799323.jpg
She wasn't designed to sink.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/CUDA97045/Belleau%20Wood/bw2-lha3-701005.jpg
She was designed to fight, to stay afloat, and carry her crew through the perils of enemy hostilities. How confusing the last moments must have been for this great lady to have the guns of those she once held so dear be the ones which fired the fatal blows that would carry her to the depths of darkness.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/CUDA97045/Belleau%20Wood/bw3-lha3-733386.jpg

May she rest in peace, and may all those who served upon her feel her presence with each misty spray of ocean breeze. Farewell USS BELLEAU WOOD (LHA-3)."
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/CUDA97045/Belleau%20Wood/bw4-lha3-756871.jpg



on the personal side. My heart is broken. its funny how you cane get attached to a piece of steel. if any of you have ever served in the Navy you'll understand that a ship has a soul. I served with her for 4 years and it pains me to know that this was her fate

Snodrvr
09-07-2006, 07:06 AM
We all feel her lose, and my condolences to you for having lost her. I don't know about ships, but I know I'd be lost of something ever happened to my tools.

Enforcer572005
09-07-2006, 07:40 AM
I think Rumsfeld has alzheimers or something. He has lost his F-ink mind for sinking modern warships. THeyve got plenty of older stuff. These modern ships like this (what-less than 25 yrs old-young for a ship) to use for target practice and tests. These LHAs are usefull flight decks, and we may very well need the ones that have been mothballed someday.

And please spare me the garbage about 'no more modern wars, only terrorists' etc. An amphib warfare ship like that is priceless when you need it, and they DONT have plenty of them.

What a bloody waste. They scrap much older ships, but use this as a target. Now what possible likely target in what navy could this possibly simulate?

They've also used several Spruance class DDs as targets also, which is about insane considering how short the navy is on DDs and how capable those ships still are. They cost very little to keep in mothballs.

I could see sinking the AMerica in a classified test to help in the design of the next CVN, but this is something I would have expected from the Clinton Admin, not this one. This is STUPID.

We are gonna be down to 38 B-52s in a few mos. because of Rummy's senility. They already had to resurect some of the 30 B-1Bs he retired also. He's almost as bad a secdef as Harold Brown or Mcnamarra were.

Tater-SW-
09-07-2006, 08:09 AM
Um, the USS Belleau Wood was commissioned in 1942 as a CVL. She was converted to a helicopter carrier in the 70s.

Hardly "modern."

tater

Enforcer572005
09-07-2006, 08:16 AM
No Tater, not THIS BW...look at her. She is a Wasp Class LHA, built in the 80s. She carried Harriers and CH-53s, CH-46s etc. She was armed with sea sparrows, Phalanxes, and a pair of 5 in guns (which i thought was a bit redundant).

THe old BW was an Essex class CV that was converted to CVS. It had an angled deck modification also, this has a straight deck. Look at the huge superstructure. this is not a WW2 ship. It's a modern one, some of her sisters are still in service and see ALOT of use in current times.

BSS_CUDA
09-07-2006, 08:18 AM
UHM tater try looking up USS Belleau Wood LHA-3 not the CVL -24. CVL-24 was a WW2 Carrier. Belleau Wood LHA-3 was commissioned in 1978. I know I was there and am a plank owner, she was decommssioned in Oct of 2005 and sank in July 2006 she was only 27 years old.

Enforcer just a slight correction the BW was a Tarawa class LHA. the Wasp is an LHD. very little difference between the two tho

carguy_
09-07-2006, 08:21 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif


I`d be happy if someone explained me why do they dump ships in the sea?Couldn`t they just scrap it?Not worth it?
Or why didn`t you just give it to somebody who would appreciate it?

This thing is tons and tons of steel useful elsewhere.

BSS_CUDA
09-07-2006, 09:02 AM
they do it for everal reasons.
1. there is nothing like a live fire test to see the effectiveness of our weaponry.
2. it tell us where we can improve our areas of battle damage control in the next class of ships.
(Side note, since they shot the hell out of the BW for a full day. there is no question she fought hard to stay afloat, she did her former crew members proud)
3. its acts as an artificial reef to help with marine life.

what really surprised me was the speed in which they sank her, only 6 months after decommission, usually they mothball a ship of this size for years before they either scrap or sink her.

EJGrOst_Caspar
09-07-2006, 09:13 AM
Well I am surprised too. Its still quite modern to be already sunk. At least wouldn't it be better to scrap her, just to save ressources (boh, guess thats not the mind of the USA, is it)?

I once made a vectorized file for U.S.S. Nassau, it was meant for a 'laser painted' copper plate - a present for a leaving Admiral (dunno any deeper details about, it was just a job). However... its not the LHA 3 , but 4 and this is a good possibility to show it up here, as a "Farewell!" from me too.

http://www.people.freenet.de/warbirds2/nassau.jpg

DxyFlyr
09-07-2006, 09:28 AM
Where was this one sunk? I thought this was a very rare thing, but it seems to be happening more often.

I saw the Oriskany moored at Pensacola before it was sent down not too long ago. They spent months preparing it for the big deep. I think they bent over backwards making the DEQ happy.

Found a vid of the sinking...

Oriskany sinking (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TNK0GM3OvU)

Pretty cool.

BSS_CUDA
09-07-2006, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by DxyFlyr:
Where was this one sunk?
off the coast of Hawaii. looks like it was probably deep water

TC_Stele
09-07-2006, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by Enforcer572005:
I think Rumsfeld has alzheimers or something. He has lost his F-ink mind for sinking modern warships. THeyve got plenty of older stuff. These modern ships like this (what-less than 25 yrs old-young for a ship) to use for target practice and tests. These LHAs are usefull flight decks, and we may very well need the ones that have been mothballed someday.

And please spare me the garbage about 'no more modern wars, only terrorists' etc. An amphib warfare ship like that is priceless when you need it, and they DONT have plenty of them.

What a bloody waste. They scrap much older ships, but use this as a target. Now what possible likely target in what navy could this possibly simulate?

They've also used several Spruance class DDs as targets also, which is about insane considering how short the navy is on DDs and how capable those ships still are. They cost very little to keep in mothballs.

I could see sinking the AMerica in a classified test to help in the design of the next CVN, but this is something I would have expected from the Clinton Admin, not this one. This is STUPID.

We are gonna be down to 38 B-52s in a few mos. because of Rummy's senility. They already had to resurect some of the 30 B-1Bs he retired also. He's almost as bad a secdef as Harold Brown or Mcnamarra were.

Doesn't the navy make these recommendations and improvements for R&D purposes as well as weapon effectiveness? I'm sure the navy came up with idea to sink it for grander purposes rather than the jumped to conclusion Rummy wants to sink a CV for the heck of it.

Haigotron
09-07-2006, 12:06 PM
She was designed to fight, to stay afloat, and carry her crew through the perils of enemy hostilities. How confusing the last moments must have been for this great lady to have the guns of those she once held so dear be the ones which fired the fatal blows that would carry her to the depths of darkness.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Tater-SW-
09-07-2006, 12:10 PM
Sorry, I was way off. I assumed that most of the helo carriers were converted ships, and I know the CVL from its ww2 record.

<S>

tater

DuxCorvan
09-07-2006, 01:01 PM
Ehem, sure are *cheaper* ways to test your weapons. I can't believe they didn't know they were to work, and how. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

One idea: declare war on Morocco. They have lots of ships. Ideal test-beds. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

TAW_Oilburner
09-07-2006, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Enforcer572005:
I think Rumsfeld has alzheimers or something. He has lost his F-ink mind for sinking modern warships. THeyve got plenty of older stuff. These modern ships like this (what-less than 25 yrs old-young for a ship) to use for target practice and tests. These LHAs are usefull flight decks, and we may very well need the ones that have been mothballed someday.

And please spare me the garbage about 'no more modern wars, only terrorists' etc. An amphib warfare ship like that is priceless when you need it, and they DONT have plenty of them.

What a bloody waste. They scrap much older ships, but use this as a target. Now what possible likely target in what navy could this possibly simulate?

They've also used several Spruance class DDs as targets also, which is about insane considering how short the navy is on DDs and how capable those ships still are. They cost very little to keep in mothballs.

I could see sinking the AMerica in a classified test to help in the design of the next CVN, but this is something I would have expected from the Clinton Admin, not this one. This is STUPID.

We are gonna be down to 38 B-52s in a few mos. because of Rummy's senility. They already had to resurect some of the 30 B-1Bs he retired also. He's almost as bad a secdef as Harold Brown or Mcnamarra were.


+1

VF51_Flatspin
09-07-2006, 11:41 PM
Sure is a shame, I'd rather see a ship scrapped to save resources or better yet turned into a museum ship. The ship I served on is still active, but I know I'll feel a pang when they decide to finish her (LCC-19 USS Blueridge).

Hawaii needs help with her close-in reefs, it's a waste to sink her out too far.

Enforcer572005
09-08-2006, 04:45 AM
I stand corrected on the class...been a while since I kept up. I was used to flying from the Wasp in EA US Navy Fighters/Marine fighters in a harrier. Great sims for thier day.

I just dont see sacrificing such a useful ship that way, especially one that could so easily be needed agian. What about the 7 old Iwo Jima class LPHs, or have they already scrapped all those?

Just because the navy approves doing something stupid doesnt mean it's correct. Just before one of the night engagements off savo in the Guadalcanal cmpn (real, not sim), admiral Norm Scott pointed out to his staff at (in a toast to the former Washington) diner that he was present at the sinking of the almost completed battleship Washington in the early 20s as a target. This was to fulfil an incredibly absurd disarmament treaty (like scraping 250 B-52Gs). He commented that he sure could have used her in the coming surface battle against superior IJN forces. It's ironic that the just commisned namesake Washington sank the Kirishima a short time later in a similiar battle, but she wasnt availible that night.

He was killed that night in the battle, though his outnumbered and outgunned cruiser and destroyer force turned around a Japanese bombardment force that would hve finished off Henderson field. The cost was horrific though, as it was in all those night battles; such happens when one is cavalier about prepardness.

He was right. To destroy modern ships with that much capability is absurd. They already did the AMerica, which I understood for improving the next generation of CVNs, but I see no such benifit from this sinking. There are plenty of older ships, DDs and CGs that would serve much better for weapons tests and simulate a likely target much more realistically as well....unless theyve already scrapped them as well. I stand by what I said about Rumsfeld. He's supposed to oversee these type decisions and prevent such ****.

I raised all sorts of hell about clintons sec nav Dalton scrapping all 6 of the virginia and SC class CGNs.....very modern ships that were very cost effective, scrapped because it was PC to do away with nuke ships. That fool wouldve done the same to all the CVNs if he could have gotten away with it.

Our history is full of such stupidity and the regrets that came later when such ships/resources were needed.

BSS_CUDA
09-08-2006, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by TC_Stele:


Doesn't the navy make these recommendations and improvements for R&D purposes as well as weapon effectiveness? I'm sure the navy came up with idea to sink it for grander purposes rather than the jumped to conclusion Rummy wants to sink a CV for the heck of it.

Just a bit of Irony to this poster. the First Captain of the Belleau Wood was Capt T.C. Stele (Ted C Stele)

Enforcer572005
09-08-2006, 09:40 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Viper2005_
09-09-2006, 12:17 PM
Better to sink it in firing trials than to scrap it, since at least some training value may be gained from the exercise, but it seems rather sad.

Scrapping B-52s doesn't seem clever to me either; AFAIK many of them have got a reasonable amount of fatigue left, and they certainly do the job.

IMO bomb trucks + PGMs + airsuperiority is a very efficient way of projecting air power.

OTOH, you guys should think yourselves lucky. The UK lost its carriers* and bombers long ago...

*yes, we've got "through deck cruisers" but they're rather small, and no longer carry fighters, which in my rather simplistic way of thinking makes them targets...

puffster1
11-05-2012, 01:42 AM
I had heard that they sank her, but I did not believe it until now. Wow! this makes you think about all the other people that served along side you. As well as all the memories of training and liberty. It is sad to see what has been done to your old home. I miss her and always will, AN Shipp (89-91). Anyone else serve during that period? Like to hear your comments. Am mostly on reef central,northern reef keepers forum. I just stumbled onto this forum and thought I would put my 2 cents in.