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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 06:51 PM
Kwiatos wrote:
- Its good to see that many people here want more and
- more realism in FB http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif That would be nice if Oleg M.
- see these fact too.
-
- I think that 1.2b is much better than 1.11. I
- hope 1.2 final will be much better than 1.2b http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
-
-
- I still miss to stall/spin character of P-39 and
- I-16 like was in I2. Now in FB I could fly Cobra
- with combat flaps like the hell don't care to much
- about stall/spin. I must much more carefully fly
- in P-40 than P-39. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
-
- Even A. Pokryszkin said that when fly in P-39 you
- must be much carefully in high acrobation expecialy
- deep turnes, the top of the loop and combat reverse
- because if you dont be carefully P-39 get spin and
- sometimes flat spin.
-
-
- I-16 as i read was difficult plane to fly and
- Russian pilot said: if you can fly I-16 you can fly
- everything http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
-
-
- Of course both P-39 and I-16 was good plane and
- very dangerous in the hand of experience pilot but
- needed carefully in flight combat acrobation.
-
-
- Oleg if i'm wrong please correct me.



Refer to my early post i want to say about spin in FB

I test all fighters in FB and make some notice:

1. some plane did'nt spin or spin very weak (short time): P-11, A6M5, B-239, La family, Mig 3 family, Lagg3 familly, Yak-3

2. some planes spin but recover without pilot help: I-16(except flat spin), I-153, Bf E, Bf G-2, Bf G-6 family, Bf K-4, P-47 family, P-51 (sometimes not recovery)

3. some planes spin very well and recovery only with pilot help: example- Hurricane, P-39, P-40, Bf F, Fw-190, etc.

Oleg could you explain me if it is correct?

I know that every plane have own character and handle in different way. But I'm not sure if it is moddeled corectly?

Cheers

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 06:51 PM
Kwiatos wrote:
- Its good to see that many people here want more and
- more realism in FB http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif That would be nice if Oleg M.
- see these fact too.
-
- I think that 1.2b is much better than 1.11. I
- hope 1.2 final will be much better than 1.2b http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
-
-
- I still miss to stall/spin character of P-39 and
- I-16 like was in I2. Now in FB I could fly Cobra
- with combat flaps like the hell don't care to much
- about stall/spin. I must much more carefully fly
- in P-40 than P-39. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
-
- Even A. Pokryszkin said that when fly in P-39 you
- must be much carefully in high acrobation expecialy
- deep turnes, the top of the loop and combat reverse
- because if you dont be carefully P-39 get spin and
- sometimes flat spin.
-
-
- I-16 as i read was difficult plane to fly and
- Russian pilot said: if you can fly I-16 you can fly
- everything http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
-
-
- Of course both P-39 and I-16 was good plane and
- very dangerous in the hand of experience pilot but
- needed carefully in flight combat acrobation.
-
-
- Oleg if i'm wrong please correct me.



Refer to my early post i want to say about spin in FB

I test all fighters in FB and make some notice:

1. some plane did'nt spin or spin very weak (short time): P-11, A6M5, B-239, La family, Mig 3 family, Lagg3 familly, Yak-3

2. some planes spin but recover without pilot help: I-16(except flat spin), I-153, Bf E, Bf G-2, Bf G-6 family, Bf K-4, P-47 family, P-51 (sometimes not recovery)

3. some planes spin very well and recovery only with pilot help: example- Hurricane, P-39, P-40, Bf F, Fw-190, etc.

Oleg could you explain me if it is correct?

I know that every plane have own character and handle in different way. But I'm not sure if it is moddeled corectly?

Cheers

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 07:00 PM
I-16 of types that we model was very stable aircraft doe to move of the GC forward with more weight of new engine of 1000 hp comparing to old types, that almost all refer to.

Yes you found correct way and really the P-39 spin here is most dangerous comparing to any other aircraft

Generally most Russian planes are more easy to recover (almost same for most Bf-109, but worse). In each manual for these planes or with docs for flight schools we have the description how was easy to recover. In most case if you have enough altitude - just drop the stick...

Oleg Maddox
1C:Maddox Games

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 07:35 PM
Ok Oleg but some planes didn't spin (not stall) at all example: P-11, B-239, A6M5. Some plane "spin" but it looks like short stall not real spin : Lagg3, Mig family, Yak3, La family and after a in a momement "spin as stall" they recovery by themself (without any movement of stick). Other planes spin for a few seconds and then recovery by themself - I-16, some bf, P-47, P-51 too.

I read a few books by A. Pokryszkin and he wrote for example:
- Mig 3 in low alt was easy to spin when make deep turn for example

- when fly in P-39 you must be much carefully in high acrobation expecialy, deep turnes, the top of the loop and combat reverse, because if you dont be carefully P-39 get spin and sometimes flat spin.

Hmm in FB for example P-40 much more spin and stall than P-39. In P-39 you don't need to much carrefully flight.

"The truth is out there"

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 08:18 PM
Kwiatos wrote:"The truth is out there"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++

I Believe Oleg has told you the truth !

Oleg wrote :

Generally most Russian planes are more easy to recover (almost same for most Bf-109, but worse). In each manual for these planes or with docs for flight schools we have the description how was easy to recover. In most case if you have enough altitude - just drop the stick...

Oleg Maddox
1C:Maddox Games


And besides it's a $30 Game , Not a 2Mil. Simulator - So go have fun !

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 08:22 PM
A testimony from a New Zealander who have flown a restored I-16

"
As you approach the aeroplane and begin a walk round, you immediately notice the ply/beech wooden fuselage which is very well finished and extremely strong. You also notice with some surprise, the fabric covered metal construction of the wings and again the huge ailerons (most Russian aeroplanes roll very well). Other unusual features are the very delicate looking undercarriage complete with wire and cables for retraction leading up in to the guts of the aeroplane, numerous exhaust stubs emanating all around the cowling, big two bladed propeller with little ground clearance to absorb all the power from the ASh 62 IR 1,000 horsepower motor, cowl flaps are in the front of the cowlings (good for Russia but not needed in New Zealand in early summer). The cockpit is protected by a tiny windscreen and small side doors similar to the Spitfire but on both sides of the fuselage and of course, no canopy.

Climbing on board, the blended wood fuselage is very smooth and you need care to mount the aeroplane in a dignified manner. Once sat down, you are aware that the ground angle is extreme and that the view forwards is very poor. In comparison the visibility over the nose in a Spitfire or a P-51 is fantastic. In fact, in the Rata it is worse than the Me109. The next problem is that if you choose to sit high in order to see out, the small curved cockpit doors are so tight when you close them that you now almost have to sit sideways to fit in! In conclusion, you simply end up sitting low! Having said that, there is a quaint translated note from the Russian test pilot which states "do not be shy or embarrassed to open the side doors in flight prior to landings to help you see out".

Once finally settled in the aeroplane and looking around left to right you see in order, an emergency fuel shut-off ****, "wobble pump", throttle and mixture controls together both working in the conventional sense and a little further forward the carb heat and prop lever co-located.

The main instrument panel is well appointed with all the standard instruments (although there is no artificial horizon). As with most Russian aeroplanes, there are a bank of switches used to 'arm' systems and to provide electrical power to them (such as fire system, turn and slip indicator, engine instruments etc.). In addition starter energiser and engage switches (on a fly wheel system a bit like the T6), plus primer, gear lights, fuel gauge and an odd pull push handle to make it read. Other peculiarities to Westerners include ASI in km/h, plus boost/manifold pressure in mm of mercury giving 0 boost at 760mm. The pilot's straps are superb and really keep you firmly glued to the seat.

Starting the Rata is simple. Mixture on, throttle set, wobble a bit - get some fuel pressure, prime five or six shots, energise the fly wheel, noise builds to a high pitch - engage and mags on and she'll fire. The noise from the multiple exhaust stacks is spectacular and very satisfying. In sympathy, white smoke coughs and belches randomly from the engine. The noise and vibration levels are very similar to the Yak 11.

It's good practice to warm up to 600 to 700 RPM for a minute and then gently increase to 1000 RPM. The next parameters to look for are 120 degrees cylinder head temperature and 50 degrees in the oil, prior to checking the engine. Once the cylinder head and oil is increasing, you can start a gentle taxi - the brakes are not spectacularly good and taxying is best achieved by power, rudder and judicious amount of forward stick to turn. If you keep the stick back - the elevator grinds the tail wheel hard against the dirt and you will drive along in straight lines all day!

At the hold, with the temperatures and pressures in the green, you stand on the brakes and start to increase power, hoping to get 760mm and about 2000 / 2100 RPM. There is a good chance the brakes will start to slip beforehand - say at 1700 - 1800 RPM, so cycle the prop back and forth slowly once, twice and more quickly a third time. Check the mags - not less that 100 drop per side. Next the simple pre take-off checks consist of:

Trim - N/A; Throttle Friction - tight; Mixture - rich; Pitch - full fine; Fuel contents, pressure, primer; Flaps - N/A; Gills - open; Oil cooler - open; Gyros - set; Instruments in the green; oxygen - N/A; Hood - N/A; Harness - tight and secure; Hydraulics - N/A (brakes holding?); Controls - full and free;

It's time to go - the power can be applied quite aggressively and you can keep it coming to 820mm & 2250RPM. The increase in noise is fantastic and it is possible to lift the tail quickly to vaguely see where you're going - you need to have the horizon cutting the 10.55 and 1.10 position on the forward cowling. There is very little tendency to swing and she runs pretty much straight as an arrow, although the rough Wanaka grass gives a harsh ride to the hard sprung oleos, the Rata and you!

If you have not figured it out before, it is now that you realise that excellent goggles are a must!! With a ground roll of about 400 yards and the smallest of rotations suddenly she's airborne and with a quick glance down you see the speed very rapidly at 200 km/h which is both the best climb and gear up speed.

The Russian test pilots recommend gear retraction not before 1000 metres!! This is rather conservative - but with good reason - getting the gear up is a bit of an epic. Power back now to max continuous 2000 & 760mm and holding the nose up to contain the speed at 200 km/h. Holding it down low after take off and snappy gear retractions are not the Rata's forte.

There is warm buffeting air everywhere, but the aeroplane immediately feels right. With a positive rate of climb it is time to sort the gear out.

Check the "brake spring" is set - check the handle lock is released (allows the retraction handle to rotate) select another handle for the "hoist" ratchet gear to the up position and then start to crank like mad!! 44 turns later you can see the wheels entering the belly of the aeroplane underneath you - suddenly the handle stiffens, a last turn or half turn and "hurrah" 2 red lights telling you the wheels are up. By now we're at 2000 feet and it is noticeably warmer in the cockpit. Power back to 1900 & 680 mm and the speed builds to 350-360km/h. Temperatures and pressures are good, with the oil temperature stable at 75 degrees and the cylinder head temperature at 180.

How does she feel? We're holding a slight push force on the stick (remember no elevator trim) - roll rate is excellent and very positive - about 100 -120 degrees per second. Pitch is also very effective and the Rata is delightful in aerobatics - although as speed increases in the dive, passing 400 km/h the push force on the stick reduces to 0 and then as 430 km/h is reached, a very slight pull force is required - something that needs a little care running in low level for the start of a display. The aeroplane accelerates very quickly in the dive and when seen from the ground, appears extremely fast. Stalling in manoeuvre gives plenty of warning with pronounced tail buffeting before she drops the left hand wing quite progressively and definitely not violently. The aeroplane delights in reversing from a max. rate turn in one direction rapidly to the other. You can see that this is a superb close in dogfighter. The delightful handling characteristics, plus the open cockpit, vibrations and noise provide a very exciting ride. Rolling requires little rudder input to stay balanced. I have the feeling that you could snap roll the Rata deliberately very precisely. Vertical performance is excellent and with excess energy pulling up and unloading straight up in to the vertical produces spectacular performance.

Stalling clean and dirty, is an interesting experience - below 250 km/h you are holding a pull force which is slightly perturbing until you get used to it. She stalls slower clean than with the gear down! Stall is at about 135-140 km/h and again is very gentle power off with a gentle wing drop that stops immediately when back stick is released.

It is back in the circuit that the work load goes up again. You need to select the gear selector down, release the handle lock, grab hold of the gear crank handle very positively, select up slightly to release the up locks - then very carefully start to crank down. The handle will immediately start to try to run away and you must keep hold of it (it's not that difficult) whilst the gear, aided by the airflow, comes down through the same 44 turns (only much easier than up).

As soon as the wheels break from the underside of the wings, the through draft of air up through the cockpit starts the same buffeting as before. Finally 2 greens and you are now down wind at 200 km/h, holding a pull force and starting to turn finals. I have to say that it is here that I least like the Rata - landing on Wanaka's narrow grass, concentrates the mind and the problem is that if you three point the aeroplane - the view forwards is really terrible. It would be fine at Duxford or on a wide concrete strip - but otherwise I am sure you are better off wheel landing the Rata. Definitely not something I expected originally. Basically, you should fly a slightly power on "hot" approach speed bleeding through 180km/h to not less than 160 km/h on very short finals to touch for a tail down wheeler. This seems to cause fairly consistently reasonable landings and the landing roll out is still only 500 yards or so, even not using brake. I have to say that, after only 5 sorties, I'm not exactly the prophet when it comes to landing Ratas - it definitely needs a bit of practice.

How do they compare with other WW2 fighters? Well, I believe, very favourably with some of the other aeroplanes. I had just flown a Hurricane for the first time, a week before the Rata and sorry to Hurricane aficionados, but I was really surprised and disappointed in the aeroplane's handling and performance (although very interesting and lovely to fly the type). I felt that you would be better off fighting in a Rata. At any rate I felt quickly far more comfortable in it. In air combat against early low powered 109's, I would suspect that the two aircraft were very comparable. Later variants of the Messerschmitt would easily be able to dictate the fight against the Rata due to the 109's superior speed and vertical performance.

Considering the Rata was in full squadron service by 1936 and was the first heavily armed, retractable gear, monoplane fighter in the world, it has many merits and surprisingly few vices. It is a real classic in its own right with a European connection and history beyond its combat on the Russian front. I would thoroughly recommend the aeroplane to anyone who would like to own a very reasonably priced exciting example of flying history."




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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 08:26 PM
What the heck. I'll throw in th Chaika too:

""Clear?" - thumbs up from the engineer with the fire extinguisher, engage, two or three blades and the AsH-62 engine starts up with a series of loud bangs from the open exhausts, pump the primer whenever it dies, watch for oil pressure rising, maintain 800 rpm until it runs evenly and try not to breathe too much of the white oily smoke which billows through the floor and around the windscreen before it whips away in the slipstream to form a cloud 100 metres behind.
This is the Polikarpov I-153 Chaika and I sometimes wonder, as it shakes and snorts after start-up, what a young Russian fighter pilot must have been thinking 60 years ago in Siberia at minus 30? with snow showers - his machine-guns all armed and his leather greatcoat buttoned up to his nose.

The warm-up procedure is surprisingly complex for the usually practical "get on with it" Russian-built aircraft: Maintain 800 rpm for three minutes maximum or until the oil temperature reaches 30?, then 1000 - 1200 rpm until the cylinder head temperature reaches 100? and the oil temperature is at least 30?, then 1,600 rpm until the cylinder head temperature reaches 120? and the oil reaches 50?.

The run-up needs to be done with the chocks in place as the brakes will not hold against reference power. The checks are: check both magnetos for operation, carburettor heat operation is checked at 1,850 rpm, propeller is cycled from 1,900 rpm to 1450 rpm and back twice, magnetos are checked at 2,030 rpm and reference power is 900 mm of boost which should produce 2,100 rpm, while maximum power is checked at 2,200 rpm and 1050 mm of boost.

With a capacity of 1,820 cubic inches, this engine - a copy of the 9-cylinder single-row Wright Cyclone - is reasonably detuned at a maximum of 1000 hp, but it produces a very good power to weight ratio in a biplane with a gross weight of just on 2,000 kg. Heavy armour plate forms the back of the seat and is required to keep the C of G in the correct position in this rebuilt fighter. A parachute is standard equipment as is a helmet and goggles, boots, overalls and gloves.

Chocks away and brakes checked. The brakes are pneumatic and similar to the Spitfire, Hurricane and Yak-3 with a lever on the stick.

Taxiing is simple enough but it is worth remembering that, as the wheels are only about one and half paces apart and the brakes are not too flash, turns should be done gently and care taken - especially in a tail wind as the Chaika tends to want to weathercock - and even with the throttle closed the speed can build quickly.

Take-off is exciting with plenty of right foot required against the torque and slipstream at maximum power and with such poor visibility behind the big round nose it feels like charging along a runway behind a block of flats. The engine noise is very loud even with earplugs, the tail must be helped up to the climbing attitude and the Chaika must be kept straight.

Lift-off occurs at about 110 kph and instead of winding the undercarriage up as with the I-16 this undercarriage is raised pneumatically with a small lever near the left knee. As with the Yak-3, activation is accompanied by a very loud hissing noise clearly heard over the engine at full power.

There is no elevator or rudder trim on the Chaika (the same as the I-16 Ishak), so some leg and arm is required, but as the wheels retract with a couple of heavy thuds elevator back pressure decreases quite a bit. With the holes in the floor more or less closed up all the cold draught is replaced by warm engine air and exhaust - so flying the Chaika is slightly warmer than taxiing!

Power can then be reduced to 2,000 rpm and 800 mm and at 200 kph the Chaika is climbing at about 2,000 ft/min. While the view is good to the sides and below, it is not good ahead in the climb; the carburettor air intake is at the top of the cowling and although the gull (chaika) in the top wing allows some view ahead, the top wings are close to eye level so plenty of weaving is required. Even in level flight the nose seems quite high.

The Chaika is more comfortable than the Ishak (the Spanish Nationalists called the I-16 the Rata, which translates as rat, but the Russian peasants called it the Ishak - little donkey. I prefer the latter), as the windscreen is wider and more effective so the slipstream doesn't tear at my helmet and goggles as it does in the Ishak.

Steep turns, loops, barrel rolls and wing-overs are easy and fun and slow rolls are heavy and a bit cumbersome but still great fun. All through the flying, however, there is an instability around the vertical axis which takes just a little while to get used to. A Tiger Moth can be reluctant to fly in balance without a bit of gentle footwork, but this Russian biplane is in need of constant guidance. A pulse on either rudder pedal will send the slip indicator flailing to full deflection with only minimal self-correcting tendency until the pilot gets his foot down on the opposite pedal. Rolling into a steep turn needs plenty of rudder to counter the considerable adverse yaw. However, a bit of practise does wonders and I find myself grinning and pretending to fire the guns as I draw a bead and dive after some other aeroplane in the distance - or a passing seagull, even.

Stalls are typical of what seems to be Russian with a fairly sudden wing drop, especially in an accelerated stall and plenty of rudder is needed to prevent further yaw once the nose drops and rotation starts. However, 1000 hp and full right rudder enables the Chaika to fly almost instantly out of a stall, which will happen with just moderate power on at about 90 kph.

Despite the instability in the vertical and lateral axes, the Chaika loves to charge around the sky; sometimes needing both hands on the stick to help keep the roll going. Unloading to less than 1g obviously speeds the rate of roll up quite a bit, but on the other hand even at the very slow rate of roll required during a big high loopy barrel roll it's quite heavy.

Returning to land means more loud hissing as the wheels drop and rotate outwards with more thumps as they lock down. Cold air rushes up through the floor and, like the Ishak, quite heavy back pressure is required to keep the nose attitude nailed at 150 kph while keeping the turn going to see the touchdown area. With its unstable tendency in yaw the Chaika just loves to sideslip. Even at a high rate of plummet there is very good control at 150 kph accompanied by a lot of wind around the windscreen and a lot of airframe buffet. However, instead of relaxing the controls back to centre as in the Pitts Special, they have to be almost forced back into balanced flight with the speed then bleeding back to 130 kph as the round-out is started. Three-point landings are easier than in the Ishak, perhaps because the landing speed is only 100 kph instead of 150 to 160 in the Ishak. As with the Ishak though, a go-around from a "ballsed up" landing is easy because with full power and plenty of right rudder to keep it all straight the little biplane just leaps back into the sky.

Wheeler landings in the wind are fine too as with the very narrow track the ailerons, being well out-board of the wheels, have plenty of leverage and give good response at quite slow speeds on the ground.

This will be a great airshow aeroplane. There is an elegance in the slant of the interplane struts. It's a fast, loud, chunky retractable biplane fighter with lots of style and appeal and to see three of them in the air together will be amazing.

The engine, in common use throughout the Eastern Bloc countries, is strong and reliable and the strident exhaust adds to the excitement and exuberance.

Ah well - you know what they say: "It's a dirty job but someone has to do it."


"

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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 09:14 PM
Nice reading F19_Orheim.

Thanks for shaing.

A.

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 10:51 PM
F19_Orheim, any more detailed source information?



S!
TX-EcoDragon
Black 1
TX Squadron XO
http://www.txsquadron.com

Member-Team Raven
http://www.waynehandley.com

(Former)Reserve Pilot Aircraft #2 of Gruppo 313
Pattuglia Acrobatica Virtuale
http://www.vhvt.com/

http://www.attitudeaviation.com/

http://www.calaggieflyers.com/



http://www.txsquadron.com/uploaded/TX-EcoDragon/ravenvert.jpg




Message Edited on 11/06/0302:02PM by TX-EcoDragon

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 11:49 PM
TX-EcoDragon wrote:
- " F19_Orheim, any more detailed source information? "

Yes, those and other reports,photos and generaly interesting stuff can be found here :

http://www.nzfpm.co.nz/welcome/welcome.htm

It's a very interesting and thurough website and I highly recomend it.

S!
Cirx

http://www.triplane.net/remlink/misfits_cirx.JPG

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 12:22 AM
I got it from this great site:

http://www.polikarpov.co.nz/

Be sure to watch the movies and hear those engines purr!!!! Unbeatable sound... the only sensation that can beat that is the smell of diesel /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Man ska aldrig varva diesel,
man ska aldrig varva fullt,
man ska aldrig varba diesel f¶r fullr, pling-plong!


//B

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XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 07:44 AM
Kwiatos wrote:
- Kwiatos wrote:
-- Its good to see that many people here want more and
-- more realism in FB http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif That would be nice if Oleg M.
-- see these fact too.
--
-- I think that 1.2b is much better than 1.11. I
-- hope 1.2 final will be much better than 1.2b http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
--
--
-- I still miss to stall/spin character of P-39 and
-- I-16 like was in I2. Now in FB I could fly Cobra
-- with combat flaps like the hell don't care to much
-- about stall/spin. I must much more carefully fly
-- in P-40 than P-39. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
--


Hear hear! A thread a while back explored this (flight model)

A lot of guys some of them pilots weighed in with some pretty heart felt stuff that agrees

Seems Il2 may have been better in some ways than FB. Don't have the patch yet so haven't tried myself. Never did figure out how the model works but I still suspect 'flying help' coding cranked in FB. Anyhow excellent questions.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 11:17 AM
JK-1 wrote:
- Kwiatos wrote:"The truth is out there"
- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
- ++++++++++
-
- I Believe Oleg has told you the truth !
-
- Oleg wrote :
-
- Generally most Russian planes are more easy to
- recover (almost same for most Bf-109, but worse). In
- each manual for these planes or with docs for flight
- schools we have the description how was easy to
- recover. In most case if you have enough altitude -
- just drop the stick...
-
- Oleg Maddox
- 1C:Maddox Games
-
-
- And besides it's a $30 Game , Not a 2Mil. Simulator
- - So go have fun !

JK-1 i know that its only the game for $30 but:

- if is possible in FB to make spin for some planes there is possible to make spin to others, isn't?

- some planes didn't spin at all - i supposse that every fighter plane made during WW2 could spin, i know that recovery from spin maby different for different plane (easy or hard)

- in FB some planes spin but not required to recover any movement of stik. When spin i don't have to do nothing and plane recovery by itself. Remember that: "In most case if you have enough altitude - just drop the stick... "


"The truth is out there"

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 11:26 AM
And something more:

I'm glide pilot and I have some real experience with spin http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 02:18 AM
Kwiatos ,

I was not bashing you , I was just conveying the fact that Oleg gave you an Answer and told you where his Information came from and this is the Info. he is going to work with And I was sincer when I said go have fun , Really I was !

And Besides I to have a little experience with spins , I have flown and owned , Sailplanes - Gliders - High wing singles - Low wing singles - High Performance Singles - High Performance Twins - Time in jets - Time in Helicopters - Homebuilt - Ultralights - Hanglider's - Parasail - And full RC Contact Combat Dogfighting - Other than this , I don't have any experience with spins at all ! - LOL

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 07:03 AM
jk-1 then you know you have to fight the spin not let go of the control and immediatly get out of it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 07:17 AM
I know Lead , I was only saying that Oleg wrote back and explaned his Information and his position , What else can you ask of the man ? Oleg is a pilot and it's his game , so Lets just leave Oleg to enjoy his Vacation . Thats all I was trying to say - No flame - No anger - OK - Thanks and Have a great Day

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 09:14 AM
Many aircraft (when within their proper weight and balance limitations of course) don't require anything other than letting go of the stick and rudder, and reducing power. A big part of why spins are so lethal is that they often occur at low altitudes, and are often starting to pilots whihc may lead to the pilot freezing up, or improperly attempting recovery, but rarely is there really any fighting involved if the pilot knows what to expect. Of course many warbirds have unique spin characteristics, and may also be loaded very near to their CG limitations, which may make spins go flat/tail low, and may reduce the prospects for recovery, and in these instances it is critical that the auto-rotation be prevented by timely recovery inputs.



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Message Edited on 11/09/0303:10AM by TX-EcoDragon

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 05:00 AM
good read/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
manyplanes just need deadstick to recover

whineingu /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 09:59 AM
My experience flying on Greatergreen's rotating map cycle is that whenever the map comes up with Brewsters against I16s and Mig3 (1940 version) I will always see at least one I16 and/or Mig3 (and sometimes several in one sortie) stall>spin>crash. The I16 I think once I saw one recover (usually just too low) but practically all don't recover, and I have never seen a Mig3 recover. I see them recover from stalls quickly, but whenever I see one enter a spin I know it will hit the ground. Perhaps they would if they had more than 1000m (probably need more than 1500m for Mig3).

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 03:51 PM
Obviously it varies from type to type, and I couldn't comment on the fighters represented in FB, but:

To recover at the incipient stage, usually centralising the controls will do the job (ie before 360deg full rotation). After that, standard spin recovery procedure has to be put in for the most swift recovery, but I imagine most stable (using the technical meaning) aircraft will come out of a spin if left. Wouldn't want to try it though http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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