PDA

View Full Version : some official clarification about CoD's STEAM please



JG53Frankyboy
03-07-2011, 06:22 AM
as stated here
http://il-2-sturmovik.ubi.com/...vers/blog/uk/?p=1162 (http://il-2-sturmovik.ubi.com/cliffs-of-dovers/blog/uk/?p=1162)
STEAM will be used in CoD.

i would like to get some more clarifications about it.
-will the CoD install run trough STEAM ?
-will STEAM be the only possibility to play online or will 3.party tools like Hyperlobby still be possible. Is a STEAM account than still needed ?
-is a Steam account needed for strictly offline play?



i am asking because i have preorded the CE of COD via amzon.de . But, as i had only bad experiences with STEAM, i am thinking about to swith my order to the standard edition (to reduce the risk of wasted money) or to cancel it at all.

M_Gunz
03-07-2011, 08:17 AM
Collectors Edition is a physical disk and other materials. STEAM is a download system/operator.

Which did you buy? Physical box that gets shipped or download that does not?

JG53Frankyboy
03-07-2011, 08:27 AM
sure the physical box, with hopefully an DVD in it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BUT, my last experience with STEAM was that it didnt let me install TotalWar Empire from my DVD !!
STEAM told me i would not have enough Harddrive space left - actually i had over 1 TB free...
I, <span class="ev_code_RED">personaly</span>, have only bad experiences with STEAM. Because of that i normaly dont buy anything that has something to do with STEAM.

i just want some further explanations on the use of STEAM in CoD from an UBI official.
the Blog is not os clear, at least for me.

kleaneasy
03-07-2011, 08:28 AM
Already on it... I've emailed to ask for more information http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

JG53Frankyboy
03-07-2011, 08:29 AM
thx a lot http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

waffen-79
03-07-2011, 12:18 PM
I use to have all kind of reserves about using STEAM, and thinking back it may have to be with the fact that:

1. I had a low-end PC
2. I always like to install my games in a custom games folder i.e: C:\_GAMES\
3. I happen to prefer full-modable games like arma, flashpoint, oblivion, neverwinter, etc.

I currently own and have intalled the following games

DVD
ArmA 2
Bad Company 2
IL-2 1946
Fallout 3
Oblivion

STEAM
Mount & Blade: Warband
Global Agenda
Grand Theft Auto IV
Fallout New Vegas

without any problem at all

now if I could install my games he way I want it and not in !"··$%&\steam\steamapps\etc I would be a happy man

so if COD is steam only I have no problem with it

horseback
03-07-2011, 12:48 PM
I have Steam with a couple of games, but I've never used the download versions; I originally got the Call of Duty Modern War 2 Disk and got Steam with it. I found that it allows me to play any of the games I have on any of my home computers' hard drives anywhere, which comes in handy when I travel with a laptop.

My preference will always be to have the disk in hand, but once the game is installed on any of my machines, it is awfully convenient to be able to play it on any of my other machines or even on a friend or relative's system in some cases, without having to bring along the disk.

If the game will be available to me here in the States on Steam AND on disk, I will think it a good thing. On the other hand, if I cannot get the game on disk and am forced to download, I'm going to be less happy.

cheers

horseback

Airmail109
03-07-2011, 12:58 PM
Steam IMO is brilliant.

M_Gunz
03-07-2011, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
Already on it... I've emailed to ask for more information http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I would also be very interested in knowing if having a DVD edition also _requires_ a form of online activation or per use interaction to use in any way.

S! Waffen, got my Warband through Avangate after an Amazon/Steam waste of time back in early October.

My #1 problem with download games is what can happen if your PC or HD dies with your info on it, or (much more often) there is need to wipe and reload or upgrade. The DVD's so far let me reinstall except for upgrade-outdated games (old ones) and SH4 that installs fine but never ran right more than minutes before the crash, and a few DRM-crippled games I pitched into the trash.

Some DRM has caused me to stop buying from certain publishers altogether. UBI is very close to being on that list after SH4 which would have been strike 3 if not for the IL2 series. I sincerely hope that UBI doesn't screw IL2 up.

ElAurens
03-07-2011, 05:40 PM
This seems to say it all...

http://il-2-sturmovik.ubi.com/cliffs...log/uk/?p=1162



Please note that the game will also use the Steam platform for services such as matchmaking, anti-cheat etc… So you will need a Steam account to play the game.

So even if you have a disc not purchased through Steam, you have to have a Steam account to play the game.

This is sad to say the least.

Is it possible to cancel orders at the UBI Shop?

Vyper54
03-07-2011, 06:28 PM
http://il-2-sturmovik.ubi.com/...vers/blog/uk/?p=1162 (http://il-2-sturmovik.ubi.com/cliffs-of-dovers/blog/uk/?p=1162)

WTE_Galway
03-07-2011, 06:34 PM
Don't have steam.

The few real life local people I know that play IL2_1946 bought the DVD at a local shop and never play it online. They are not gamers they are aviation/history nuts. I doubt any of them would buy a digital download or muck about with with steam either. Several still play "off the disk" versions without even bothering to download patches.

From UBI's point of view of course there is way more short term cash to be made out of 15 year old gamer/nerd kids (who already have steam and have played every first person shooter in existence) downloading a digital version just to try it out and then probably coming on here and complaining it "sucks compared to CSF2" before quitting. Doesn't matter if they quit playing after 4 games so long as they download and pay.

What you may lose is some of the solid core in the community of people who are NOT gamers and who like Oleg's sims for the historical aspects and accuracy. I doubt however UBI care to much about that.

Statler86
03-07-2011, 07:01 PM
From making my daily rounds of 1C, simhq, here, etc, I see that most of the anti-steam sentiment is coming from the same handful of people. Steam simply does for PC gamers what Xbox live does(and more) for console players, completely free. Considering the massive number of people who use steam daily without trouble the steam issues are likely user ignorance. Steam has been great for PC gaming as a whole and it's time for you to take off the tin foil hats and give it a chance. Not playing CoD because of the steam requirement is laughable.

biggs222
03-07-2011, 07:46 PM
yeah im having a hard time understanding why having to get a Steam account is such a deal breaker for you guys...

Steam is going to be used for multiplayer thats all

its free and you can play offline with it... or should i say without it.

Ba5tard5word
03-07-2011, 08:56 PM
Steam is great especially when they have games for ridiculously cheap, because it's so hard to find good pc games in stores anymore and it's nicer to install a game right away than to wait several days for a game to arrive from Amazon et al.

But I don't see why they'd use Steam if they already have that Solidwhatsit DRM, since the only reason to force people to use Steam for disc games is for its DRM.

Also generally you can play Steam games offline if the game lets you, from what we have heard COD is supposed to be playable offline once you've installed it and "activated" it, whatever that means.

biggs222
03-07-2011, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
My #1 problem with download games is what can happen if your PC or HD dies with your info on it, or (much more often) there is need to wipe and reload or upgrade. The DVD's so far let me reinstall except for upgrade-outdated games (old ones) and SH4 that installs fine but never ran right more than minutes before the crash, and a few DRM-crippled games I pitched into the trash.


this happened to me once... i had to reformat my HD. That's the nice thing about Steam... if its a game u purchased on steam or a game that is activated through steam, it saves it on you online account... so all i had to do was reinstall steam, log onto my account and then install the game back onto my HD from the games library in steam... basically it stores all your Steam games in the program itself!

now as for my games that were not purchased through steam i had to manually install the game obviously. but in this case, since CoD will be a "steam" game... even if you buy the DVD its still a game that will be stored into your steam library digitally. so you shouldnt have to manually install the game again...
I believe it will ask you for a key-code the very first time you install it and then will save it so you wont have to do it again (in the case of a dead computer or whathaveyou.)

ElAurens
03-07-2011, 09:16 PM
Gents, I used Steam in the past to play Red Orchestra.

I did not like the disconnects, the glitchy way it worked in general, the fact that it phones home with an excessive amount of personal info, and it's rather odd way of being on even when it was supposed to be off.

Perhaps it is better now, but you will have to prove it to me before I put it on my current computer. It was quite difficult to remove from the last computer I had it on as it ends up in a lot of locations in the file system.

Stiletto-
03-07-2011, 09:36 PM
Like it or dislike it, Steam is here to stay. and it is good for us, good for our small flight sim community. Everyone that is reading this thread absolutely must read this article.

http://www.mcvuk.com/features/...NION-Retail-vs-Steam (http://www.mcvuk.com/features/808/OPINION-Retail-vs-Steam)

It is an interview with the publishing director of 1C and why steam and digital downloads are so much better for the industry than going to the store.

By choosing to go to the store and not buy through steam, you are actually giving Oleg alot less of your money because brick and mortar stores demand a much higher percentage of the sale. Money that could help fund future improvements and add-ons to your favorite game.

Steam and other direct download sites are helping the flight sim genre and computer gaming as a whole. Brick & Mortar stores are killing it.

Nobody says adapting to new ways is fun, i understand why some people don't like steam, but it is absolutely necessary this day in age for the future of our hobby.

Another interesting article about retailers vs Steam

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/4174...-threatens-Steam-ban (http://www.mcvuk.com/news/41746/Retail-threatens-Steam-ban)

Statler86
03-07-2011, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
Gents, I used Steam in the past to play Red Orchestra.

I did not like the disconnects, the glitchy way it worked in general, the fact that it phones home with an excessive amount of personal info, and it's rather odd way of being on even when it was supposed to be off.


Perhaps it is better now, but you will have to prove it to me before I put it on my current computer. It was quite difficult to remove from the last computer I had it on as it ends up in a lot of locations in the file system.

If Steam disconnects, your game will go to offline mode and you can continue playing, assuming you're in single player mode. Steam stays on so friends can instant message one another, you can see when friends join a game and instantly join their server with one click, etc. You should recognize the difference between a feature and a bug. As far as being "glitchy in general" and "hard to remove" sounds vague enough to be user error. Don't mean to sound rude but far too many people are moaning about a program they know little to nothing about. Anyone who had a bad experience with software should know nothing is perfect. The people behind this program have made many advancements since it's beginnings. By not giving it a chance the only people who will pay for it is yourself and the CoD team.

Edit: I couldn't care less about people buying/not buying a game because of Steam. That is a personal choice. Just don't do it because of all the misinformation being thrown around by people who used an old version or who is just repeating the paranoia they read elsewhere.

Gumtree
03-08-2011, 12:10 AM
I am happy to buy it on steam, that is along as i get charged a fair price.

Game in Australia $90 same game in USA $50 now australian dollar worth a little over 1 for 1 with the yank. Digital down load so where is the extra money going?

Bah!! we are getting sodomised again, All I can hope for is that no one in Australia buys it, so it will go into the cheap parts bin quicker then I'll consider getting it!

Erkki_M
03-08-2011, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
Gents, I used Steam in the past to play Red Orchestra.

I did not like the disconnects, the glitchy way it worked in general, the fact that it phones home with an excessive amount of personal info, and it's rather odd way of being on even when it was supposed to be off.

Perhaps it is better now, but you will have to prove it to me before I put it on my current computer. It was quite difficult to remove from the last computer I had it on as it ends up in a lot of locations in the file system.

I hope its just the activation before I can shut down Steam for good. If Oleg is to be trusted, it should support 3rd party programs, ie. HyperLobby supports it as soon as Jiri gets his hands on the game.

M_Gunz
03-08-2011, 06:10 AM
Taking some time to actually read the UBI site blog: (http://il-2-sturmovik.ubi.com/cliffs-of-dovers/blog/uk/?p=1162)

IL2: Cliffs of Dovers DRM solution
Posted on 7 March 2011 by admin


Helmut says:
7 March 2011 at 11:06

Will Steam be required for strictly offline use too?
Reply

*
admin says:
8 March 2011 at 09:01

Yes.



Owl says:
8 March 2011 at 03:50

I think you probably meant that a Steam account will be required to play online. Is that right? If I only play offline, single-player missions do I still need a Steam account?
Reply

*
admin says:
8 March 2011 at 08:56

Yes, you will need a Steam account even if your play offline.



Sam van Gool says:
7 March 2011 at 20:26

I had waited years for this game… ready to buy several copies…

Now you tell me it has the “STEAM” malware on it? which among other things means:

-”restricts game registration and playability to the buyer’s country of residence”
So if I want to play in Holliday I am grounded at home and cannot travel to different regions? If I buy a product I expect FREEDOM to use it, even if I have to pay more.

-”Steam’s availability is not guaranteed and Valve is under no legal obligation to release an update disabling the authentication system in the event that Steam becomes permanently unavailable”

Now this must be joke! so I need steam, but they don’t have any obligation to guarantee availability and, once they stop supporting a game they just will abandon me in the dust?

And yet even after a good link was posted by Vyper54 I see POST AFTER POST by Biggs and others not affiliated with UBI stating that Steam is only required for online. Do any of you know that for a FACT or are you just stating what makes sense to you?

I hate to say it but this late in the process there's not much chance of a change.

Well at least UBI can say they GOT the pirates this time. And a good size chunk of FORMERLY PAYING CUSTOMERS AS WELL.

Maybe there will be a way to get a copy from Russia or somewhere that doesn't have idiot dweebs for marketers.

JG53Frankyboy
03-08-2011, 06:16 AM
i would not be so sure that the russian version dont need STEAM too.

as it looks like the STEAM 'idea' was 1C's , not UBI's ...

and "needing a STEAM account" isnt the same as "you need to run STEAM while playing offline" , at least in my understanding. Perhaps someone should ask in the BLog more deeply http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

PB0_shadow
03-08-2011, 06:21 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:

I would also be very interested in knowing if having a DVD edition also _requires_ a form of online activation or per use interaction to use in any way.

S

This has been answered already: One time online activation required.


As for STEAM it may have been chosen by 1C as much as by Ubi.


Only question for me is how the online lobby will work.

Steam is OK for the rest, never had an issue.

and El, yes you can cancel an order on Ubishop, but no need to do so. I'll find a buyer if needed.

lasol
03-08-2011, 08:01 AM
I don't mind Steam or Other Digital Distribution as long as:
- I can choose where to buy and which distribution service to use (no to monopoly thanks)
- I can choose where to install my games (some to SSD, some to HDD)
- I can get a refund and return the game as easily as with DVD-copy if the game for what ever reason doesn't work on my PC
- I can choose when to update the game and go to previous version if new version introduce unwanted bugs/features
- I can resell the game
- I don't have to agree an EULA that's probably against most western consumer laws
- Digital copies are cheaper than DVD-copies (less expenses, less middle-men)
- 1 euro != 1 dollar

I just want the _game_ nothing else.

RSS-Martin
03-08-2011, 08:11 AM
For me it is dvd only, have been ripped off twice with downloads due to faulty keys, sorry not going that way, as there I might as well throw my money out the window.

Urufu_Shinjiro
03-08-2011, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
i would not be so sure that the russian version dont need STEAM too.

as it looks like the STEAM 'idea' was 1C's , not UBI's ...

and "needing a STEAM account" isnt the same as "you need to run STEAM while playing offline" , at least in my understanding. Perhaps someone should ask in the BLog more deeply http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Agreed, it does not appear this is a "Steam" game so I doubt you will need to have steam running and online to play the game offline. The way the blog reads it just says you will need a steam account, it is not clear if you will need to sign in online in order to play the game (like a full steam game) or if a steam account is needed for activation but only needs steam running for the matchmaking services etc. Clarification is needed for sure.

FlatSpinMan
03-08-2011, 09:47 AM
Very interesting article. Steam puts a LOT more cash in 1C's pocket than shop-bought copies. Quite surprising.
I still like the idea of having a hard copy, but having said that, I logged on to steam for the first in about 6 years (since Half Life 2 came out) and was amazed to see all the games I had on it, waiting for me to download and play. Most were free spin offs of the HL series, and I never even finished that, but still I thought it was quite cool. no hassles with account deactivation or anything.
Of course, I live in a place where fulltime cable et access is readily available. If I was in NZ or somewhere else similarly limited I would be far less favourable.

mortoma
03-08-2011, 09:59 AM
It sucks but I'm passing on this title. I'll still be in the old IL2 forum though. This whole steam thing will keep the old IL2 alive and well for years to come. Sorry Oleg, but I'm not giving you any money for this thing! I estimate that this is going to kill about 10 to 20% of the sales for this title. People who would otherwise have bought will stay away. This happened to ROF and they finally saw the light and did away with their constant online requirement because they saw it cost them customers. They are also getting smart and developing offline campaigns and maybe even a dynamic campaign.

You'd think Oleg would get be able to see the forest for the trees. There is simply going to be a certain percentage of people who don't like this sort of thing whether or not some of you can understand it or not. You can make all the "you guys are crazy for staying away just because of Steam" statements all you want but that won't change the outcome. I simply refuse to buy it, period!

Ba5tard5word
03-08-2011, 10:10 AM
How many bloody levels of DRM will they have? Will they still have the Solidshield thing or not?

Again I've never really had any trouble with Steam, though something I've always found annoying about it is that I can't figure out how to get Nvidia Control Panel to work with games on Steam--the .exe for each game is targeted to Steam and the game starts up via the Steam program rather than by its own .exe. So when you add the .exe to your Nvidia CP list, you're changing settings for steam.exe rather than for your game's .exe. There's probably a way to change the game's .exe around so it works properly but I've never figured it out. From what I've seen COD will have in-game settings like AA but there's a lot of stuff in NCP that you never see in any game.

Statler86
03-08-2011, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by mortoma:
It sucks but I'm passing on this title. I'll still be in the old IL2 forum though. This whole steam thing will keep the old IL2 alive and well for years to come. Sorry Oleg, but I'm not giving you any money for this thing! I estimate that this is going to kill about 10 to 20% of the sales for this title. People who would otherwise have bought will stay away. This happened to ROF and they finally saw the light and did away with their constant online requirement because they saw it cost them customers. They are also getting smart and developing offline campaigns and maybe even a dynamic campaign.

You'd think Oleg would get be able to see the forest for the trees. There is simply going to be a certain percentage of people who don't like this sort of thing whether or not some of you can understand it or not. You can make all the "you guys are crazy for staying away just because of Steam" statements all you want but that won't change the outcome. I simply refuse to buy it, period!

Wrong. The fuss on the forums is from the same few people. Even most of the people swearing not to buy it will end up doing so once they realize the program won't steal their soul. Besides that Steam is the only real chance this game has of getting any exposure. I discovered Il2 while looking for a new game to play at WalMart. Never had even considered playing a flight sim before, yet have played ever since. That kind of thing can't happen if everyone is forced to buy through Amazon, Ubistore, etc. As long as the game can be played in purely offline mode, as every Steam game I own can, this is by far the best move for Oleg to make. Saying he shouldn't use a fine program to help market his game simply because we fear change is actually quite greedy considering all the work they put into it.

biggs222
03-08-2011, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by mortoma:
It sucks but I'm passing on this title. I'll still be in the old IL2 forum though. This whole steam thing will keep the old IL2 alive and well for years to come. Sorry Oleg, but I'm not giving you any money for this thing! I estimate that this is going to kill about 10 to 20% of the sales for this title. People who would otherwise have bought will stay away. This happened to ROF and they finally saw the light and did away with their constant online requirement because they saw it cost them customers. They are also getting smart and developing offline campaigns and maybe even a dynamic campaign.

You'd think Oleg would get be able to see the forest for the trees. There is simply going to be a certain percentage of people who don't like this sort of thing whether or not some of you can understand it or not. You can make all the "you guys are crazy for staying away just because of Steam" statements all you want but that won't change the outcome. I simply refuse to buy it, period!

HAHA
yeah sure we may lose the 10-20% of you steam-a-phobic people, but the community will gain about 50% more people solely by it being available on Steam alone...

the exposure this game will get from being on Steam is going to be WAY greater than any other means of distribution.

RSS-Martin
03-08-2011, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by biggs222:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
It sucks but I'm passing on this title. I'll still be in the old IL2 forum though. This whole steam thing will keep the old IL2 alive and well for years to come. Sorry Oleg, but I'm not giving you any money for this thing! I estimate that this is going to kill about 10 to 20% of the sales for this title. People who would otherwise have bought will stay away. This happened to ROF and they finally saw the light and did away with their constant online requirement because they saw it cost them customers. They are also getting smart and developing offline campaigns and maybe even a dynamic campaign.

You'd think Oleg would get be able to see the forest for the trees. There is simply going to be a certain percentage of people who don't like this sort of thing whether or not some of you can understand it or not. You can make all the "you guys are crazy for staying away just because of Steam" statements all you want but that won't change the outcome. I simply refuse to buy it, period!

HAHA
yeah sure we may lose the 10-20% of you steam-a-phobic people, but the community will gain about 50% more people solely by it being available on Steam alone...

the exposure this game will get from being on Steam is going to be WAY greater than any other means of distribution. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Do you get some kind of loyalties from Steam? As you seem to really be a bit pushy about your steam. Seems for you very hard to accept that others might have a differant view than you do?
Great way to further split up the IL2 community, as pushy people tend to be avoided.

Chivas
03-08-2011, 11:47 AM
You only go thru Steam when you play online.

Jaws2002
03-08-2011, 12:51 PM
No problem with Steam here. The only game I had some remote problems on Steam was Red Orchestra, wich many people on this forum had problems with, and that was so long ago When steam was jsut starting.
I have six games on steam right now and I didn't have any problems with any of them.
I like the auto update feature. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


....And to pi$$ off RSS-Martin, is not much his U-boats can do about Steam.http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

M_Gunz
03-08-2011, 12:51 PM
I will wait for official confirmation as I would have over 10x the game price in upgrade hanging on that maybe.

JG52Uther
03-08-2011, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Chivas:
You only go thru Steam when you play online.
Thanks Oleg!
oh wait...

TheGrunch
03-08-2011, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Thanks Oleg!
oh wait...
Valve are going to change the way Steam works based upon Oleg's requirements? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

K_Freddie
03-08-2011, 01:17 PM
I'm quiet prepard to pay up to 30% extra for a box version that works offline direct from the box and that you can join online anytime with some authentification method.

As for Steam... Nah Nah! and any draconian DRM ... there are places for these type of things. With this new DRM that is been used for COD.. I'll wait a bit, as it could just be another Starforce disaster... (Don't mention the driver thingy.. I know that!!)

The public 'spoke very clearly' to UBI with regard the SH5 and it's drm.
I hope Oleg hasn't shot himself in the foot with UBI/Steam as it will be a real waste of talent, ruined again by 'accountants'. Maybe he has an 'Exit Clause' on his contract.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

blairgowrie
03-08-2011, 01:33 PM
That's how I feel too K _Freddie.

TheGrunch
03-08-2011, 01:38 PM
I'd agree with all of that, K_Freddie. However, the choice of Steam and Solidshield seems to me like the least draconian DRM any big-name publisher's game is likely to ship with any more. If you find Steam of all things to be draconian you're probably stuck with indie games. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

JG52Uther
03-08-2011, 01:52 PM
If only we had some clear information from ubi about a game that supposedly launches in 15 days...
Really,is it so hard?

Rapid61
03-08-2011, 02:51 PM
Ahh, STEAM, the route of all things beautiful, love it.
Most of my games or on it and can honestly say IL2 CoD will be joining em.
Gotta be STEAM all the way...

biggs222
03-08-2011, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:
....And to pi$$ off RSS-Martin, is not much his U-boats can do about Steam.http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif


Originally posted by TheGrunch:
If you find Steam of all things to be draconian you're probably stuck with indie games. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
^THIS

Ba5tard5word
03-08-2011, 04:21 PM
If you see all these people complaining about Steam, remember that flight simming attracts an older gaming community so you get a lot of people in their 40's and 50's who don't get newfangled systems like Steam which would really be the most unobtrusive DRM system to use.

MOH_SKID.
03-08-2011, 04:30 PM
Steam is fine. It makes it easy to buy the game. Click and it's done. No shlepping from place-to-place only to find racks and racks of console games and store "staff" that are unfamiliar with the term "flight simulation". (I had to order 1946 from Florida, FFS!) No need to hunt for a no-CD patch. Just click the icon and go fly. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S~
MOH_Skid

M_Gunz
03-08-2011, 07:11 PM
We've got a few ringers chiming in who only see the market line.

RSS-Martin
03-08-2011, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:
No problem with Steam here. The only game I had some remote problems on Steam was Red Orchestra, wich many people on this forum had problems with, and that was so long ago When steam was jsut starting.
I have six games on steam right now and I didn't have any problems with any of them.
I like the auto update feature. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


....And to pi$$ off RSS-Martin, is not much his U-boats can do about Steam.http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

Might be but on the German Ubi site, a lot are pi$$ed off and canceling their preorders, thanks to that Steaming pile of po.
Way to go, so that a small group is happy, many leave. That is what you call successful marketing. Of course the european market is so small not worth while taking into account. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Statler86
03-08-2011, 10:23 PM
Google search "Steam offline mode". Having an account and having to be connected are not the same thing.

If you're playing a game and have internet failure, every single player Steam game I own has continued playing normally, as will CoD. If this is not the case it is because UBI or 1C have made the game behave differently offline, because this is the Steam default.

It is amazing how upset people are over something they know so little about. Anyone who doesn't understand at this point either doesn't want to or hasn't researched Steam from reputable sources AT ALL.

M_Gunz
03-08-2011, 10:26 PM
Still waiting on official word -- with more detail and no supposition.

K_Freddie
03-08-2011, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by Statler86:
It is amazing how upset people are over something they know so little about. Anyone who doesn't understand at this point either doesn't want to or hasn't researched Steam from reputable sources AT ALL.
Maybe you haven't been on this planet long enough, to remember when you bought something, you actually owned it and could do what you liked with it.

It's all about owning the product you paid for, and not relying on Steam, DRM's to 'allow' you to play. Relying on the net to be permanently up 100%, DRM servers to be up 100%, for them to be in business forever..... is fools folly.

Accepting this type business model, WILL come back to you, and BITE you real bad.. I'm just not prepared to waste my cash on a seemingly excellent product ruined by bad distribution control. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I'll wait and see how it works... I'm not holding my breath http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

(My kids are impatient and have bought DRM games and some run through steam - None work properly - No 'research' needed.) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Ba5tard5word
03-08-2011, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by Statler86:

It is amazing how upset people are over something they know so little about. Anyone who doesn't understand at this point either doesn't want to or hasn't researched Steam from reputable sources AT ALL.

THE PROTESTANT REFORMATION IS BLASPHEMY!!!

Statler86
03-08-2011, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Statler86:
It is amazing how upset people are over something they know so little about. Anyone who doesn't understand at this point either doesn't want to or hasn't researched Steam from reputable sources AT ALL.
Maybe you haven't been on this planet long enough, to remember when you bought something, you actually owned it and could do what you liked with it.

It's all about owning the product you paid for, and not relying on Steam, DRM's to 'allow' you to play. Relying on the net to be permanently up 100%, DRM servers to be up 100%, for them to be in business forever..... is fools folly.

Accepting this type business model, WILL come back to you, and BITE you real bad.. I'm just not prepared to waste my cash on a seemingly excellent product ruined by bad distribution control. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I'll wait and see how it works... I'm not holding my breath http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

(My kids are impatient and have bought DRM games and some run through steam - None work properly - No 'research' needed.) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps that is the problem. Or, possibly it is that you are too simply too set in your ways to accept that this type of distribution IS the future of PC gaming. To deny this is to be blind.

Regardless of owning that game disk, you do not own the game, and can not do anything you want with it. You didn't back then anymore than you do now.

As far as the 100% DRM\net connection, it has been explained over and over again how Steam works.

Even Il2 fanatics admit this is a niche game with low sales. I just don't comprehend people angry that Oleg is taking the route that gets him the most dollars per game sold after all the years his team has spent on it. Please explain why he should lose money on box distribution rather than a worldwide digital distribution method that the vast majority of tech competent people are happy with.

Edit-
Countless threads have been posted about people having trouble installing Il2 from a cd. Not to mention people having problems with patching. I know I've seen dozens if not hundreds. According to the logic I see being used around here this means CD/DVD distribution is a bad idea right?

RSS-Martin
03-09-2011, 12:53 AM
Well it is thanks to types like you that push that steaming pile. If that is what YOU like fine, just don´t expect everyone else to follow like lemmings just because you and your fellow "Steam-friends" think this is the way. As it very much depends on the customer if something works on the market or not! Companies can push stuff as much as they want, if it is not bought, they will change, as they have to make sales to survive. Of course it is always easy to go the way of least resistance and except everything that is dished out onto your plate! You are exactly the kind of customers these companies want. As to you they can sell anything, you will buy it. This is turning "customer is king" to "company is king"...I guess you feel really honoured that these companyies are gracious enough to except your pocket money..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

TheGrunch
03-09-2011, 02:02 AM
It's more that Steam is actually a win-win. Oleg doesn't have to waste time programming his own server browser and gets a much greater proportion of the value of sales as compared to retail.
As for us, we can install Steam, login once, put it in offline mode, create a desktop shortcut and never even consider that it's even installed on our PCs again unless we want to use multiplayer, and even then we could just use Xfire or something. How is that obtrusive or draconian?

OH NO IT'S SO AWFUL! I'LL NEVER EVEN HAVE TO LOOK AT IT AGAIN AFTER INSTALL!

K_Freddie
03-09-2011, 03:31 AM
Originally posted by Statler86:
Perhaps that is the problem. Or, possibly it is that you are too simply too set in your ways to accept that this type of distribution IS the future of PC gaming. To deny this is to be blind.

Regardless of owning that game disk, you do not own the game, and can not do anything you want with it. You didn't back then anymore than you do now.
So far off the mark, it's just amazing, but you make as many assumptions you like... RSS-Martin sums it up clearly.

I have a steam account, which my kids mostly use, and can set their games to offline mode by making a shortcut to the game exe file in the steam game subfolders.. this is not a problem - it's the online mode that is the problem.
If COD servers have it's own private validity authentication check (something better than IL2 server stuff) that'll be great (and the route to go), and it's not difficult to implement this by either buying a license to decent working code, or just do it themselves.

All these 'shortcuts' taken by Oleg and 1C could be an indication of an 'unfinished' product wrt time constraints, this coupled with steam and ubi could compound the problem even more for users. One hopes this is not the case but the lack of explicit info is cause for concern. this has always been Oleg's 'modus operandi' so I just wait and see.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

kleaneasy
03-09-2011, 03:36 AM
Hey guys

just a quickie to confirm, the questions were passed on but at this point the guys I have contact with are all out of the office for a couple of days so I won't be able to chase it further untill tomorrow. Just so you know its not been forgotten http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

JG53Frankyboy
03-09-2011, 03:39 AM
Do they have their offices in Rio, NewOrleans, Mainz or Köln ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Thx for information http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

M_Gunz
03-09-2011, 04:11 AM
Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
Hey guys

just a quickie to confirm, the questions were passed on but at this point the guys I have contact with are all out of the office for a couple of days so I won't be able to chase it further untill tomorrow. Just so you know its not been forgotten http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Thank you. It won't go on sale here until weeks into April anyway. I can support Maddox Games by buying copies of 1946 if not CoD.

Statler86
03-09-2011, 06:21 AM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Statler86:
Perhaps that is the problem. Or, possibly it is that you are too simply too set in your ways to accept that this type of distribution IS the future of PC gaming. To deny this is to be blind.

Regardless of owning that game disk, you do not own the game, and can not do anything you want with it. You didn't back then anymore than you do now.
So far off the mark, it's just amazing, but you make as many assumptions you like... RSS-Martin sums it up clearly.

I have a steam account, which my kids mostly use, and can set their games to offline mode by making a shortcut to the game exe file in the steam game subfolders.. this is not a problem - it's the online mode that is the problem.
If COD servers have it's own private validity authentication check (something better than IL2 server stuff) that'll be great (and the route to go), and it's not difficult to implement this by either buying a license to decent working code, or just do it themselves.

All these 'shortcuts' taken by Oleg and 1C could be an indication of an 'unfinished' product wrt time constraints, this coupled with steam and ubi could compound the problem even more for users. One hopes this is not the case but the lack of explicit info is cause for concern. this has always been Oleg's 'modus operandi' so I just wait and see.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're the one who started making age based assumptions and were just as far off as you claim I am.

RSS Martin(all of you for that matter) can swim against the tide all you like, but digital distribution is becoming the norm. You can cover your ears, close your eyes, and say "lalalalala" all you want but it's happening. There are times to buy/not buy products on principal but here you're just hurting yourself.

RSS-Martin is right about (only)one thing. It is the market that decides if something works on the market or not. For those of you not completely blind to reason, you'll see the market is overwhelmingly in favor of Steam. Just look at the poll at 1C, or number of people using Steam at a given time. As for our "steam-friends" RSS, sorry but some people have friends, while others do not. I for one like to play with other people I know. If you choose to not make friends in real life and want to play alone, that's your problem. MOST of us like the added functionality.

You'll have to wait to hear from Oleg to know exactly why they are going with Steam. We're just trying to show you that it's not the end of the world. Old dogs can learn new tricks(for the several of you who think you're clever bringing up age, which is irrelevant).

K_Freddie
03-09-2011, 07:13 AM
If you read carefully, it's not the 'elders' who are stating 'it is so' and 'will be so', but it is the 'elders' who are stating the 'dangers' of the situation and it is incidently the 'elders' who have experienced a lot more change than the 'youngers', and are a lot more wiser to this.

And the more you experience change, the more things stay the same.. if you're an 'elder' that is.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

M_Gunz
03-09-2011, 07:26 AM
Swim against the tide? No Jack, I don't have to play at all. And from my time in the community I can tell you plainly that a big chunk of us long time members are saying the same thing.

RSS-Martin
03-09-2011, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by Statler86:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K_Freddie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Statler86:
Perhaps that is the problem. Or, possibly it is that you are too simply too set in your ways to accept that this type of distribution IS the future of PC gaming. To deny this is to be blind.

Regardless of owning that game disk, you do not own the game, and can not do anything you want with it. You didn't back then anymore than you do now.
So far off the mark, it's just amazing, but you make as many assumptions you like... RSS-Martin sums it up clearly.

I have a steam account, which my kids mostly use, and can set their games to offline mode by making a shortcut to the game exe file in the steam game subfolders.. this is not a problem - it's the online mode that is the problem.
If COD servers have it's own private validity authentication check (something better than IL2 server stuff) that'll be great (and the route to go), and it's not difficult to implement this by either buying a license to decent working code, or just do it themselves.

All these 'shortcuts' taken by Oleg and 1C could be an indication of an 'unfinished' product wrt time constraints, this coupled with steam and ubi could compound the problem even more for users. One hopes this is not the case but the lack of explicit info is cause for concern. this has always been Oleg's 'modus operandi' so I just wait and see.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're the one who started making age based assumptions and were just as far off as you claim I am.

RSS Martin(all of you for that matter) can swim against the tide all you like, but digital distribution is becoming the norm. You can cover your ears, close your eyes, and say "lalalalala" all you want but it's happening. There are times to buy/not buy products on principal but here you're just hurting yourself.

RSS-Martin is right about (only)one thing. It is the market that decides if something works on the market or not. For those of you not completely blind to reason, you'll see the market is overwhelmingly in favor of Steam. Just look at the poll at 1C, or number of people using Steam at a given time. As for our "steam-friends" RSS, sorry but some people have friends, while others do not. I for one like to play with other people I know. If you choose to not make friends in real life and want to play alone, that's your problem. MOST of us like the added functionality.

You'll have to wait to hear from Oleg to know exactly why they are going with Steam. We're just trying to show you that it's not the end of the world. Old dogs can learn new tricks(for the several of you who think you're clever bringing up age, which is irrelevant). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Your comment is very amusing, and your assumptions are even more amusing! Keep on guessing, you are not even close.
But go ahead make your own experiances, as you are so much better informed, and so ahead of things. But don´t come crying here when software companies tell you when you may use your software or not. As to that silly poll on the banana forum, do you really think just because a known smart alec sets up a poll everyone is obliged to take part in it? 99% of the threads on the banana forum are a complete waste of time. Just like that poll.
But carry on explaining to those who have been dealing with sims for years, how things should be. I am certain you will have many followers.
Most likely like Red Orchestra, many many empty servers, and niffty profiles where you can brag about the newest medals won for not crashing, or some other nobby achivement. Why not suggest that CoD have also a facebook link too, wouldn´t that be something for your type?
I can only laugh out loud at people like you!

FlatSpinMan
03-09-2011, 08:07 AM
So, to sum up:
-Some people think Steam is fine.
-Others think steam is evil.
- Some of us *think* that CoD will need to be online all the time but none of us knows yet.
- Others *think* that CoD can be played offline if you choose to.
-None of us knows anything concrete about this stuff yet.

This is the sum contribution to humanity of this thread so far. Ring-a-ding-ding. It just doesn't matter.so there is no reason to get offensive or personal about it.
It is all just down to individual preference.

Statler86
03-09-2011, 08:12 AM
Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Statler86:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K_Freddie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Statler86:
Perhaps that is the problem. Or, possibly it is that you are too simply too set in your ways to accept that this type of distribution IS the future of PC gaming. To deny this is to be blind.

Regardless of owning that game disk, you do not own the game, and can not do anything you want with it. You didn't back then anymore than you do now.
So far off the mark, it's just amazing, but you make as many assumptions you like... RSS-Martin sums it up clearly.

I have a steam account, which my kids mostly use, and can set their games to offline mode by making a shortcut to the game exe file in the steam game subfolders.. this is not a problem - it's the online mode that is the problem.
If COD servers have it's own private validity authentication check (something better than IL2 server stuff) that'll be great (and the route to go), and it's not difficult to implement this by either buying a license to decent working code, or just do it themselves.

All these 'shortcuts' taken by Oleg and 1C could be an indication of an 'unfinished' product wrt time constraints, this coupled with steam and ubi could compound the problem even more for users. One hopes this is not the case but the lack of explicit info is cause for concern. this has always been Oleg's 'modus operandi' so I just wait and see.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're the one who started making age based assumptions and were just as far off as you claim I am.

RSS Martin(all of you for that matter) can swim against the tide all you like, but digital distribution is becoming the norm. You can cover your ears, close your eyes, and say "lalalalala" all you want but it's happening. There are times to buy/not buy products on principal but here you're just hurting yourself.

RSS-Martin is right about (only)one thing. It is the market that decides if something works on the market or not. For those of you not completely blind to reason, you'll see the market is overwhelmingly in favor of Steam. Just look at the poll at 1C, or number of people using Steam at a given time. As for our "steam-friends" RSS, sorry but some people have friends, while others do not. I for one like to play with other people I know. If you choose to not make friends in real life and want to play alone, that's your problem. MOST of us like the added functionality.

You'll have to wait to hear from Oleg to know exactly why they are going with Steam. We're just trying to show you that it's not the end of the world. Old dogs can learn new tricks(for the several of you who think you're clever bringing up age, which is irrelevant). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Your comment is very amusing, and your assumptions are even more amusing! Keep on guessing, you are not even close.
But go ahead make your own experiances, as you are so much better informed, and so ahead of things. But don´t come crying here when software companies tell you when you may use your software or not. As to that silly poll on the banana forum, do you really think just because a known smart alec sets up a poll everyone is obliged to take part in it? 99% of the threads on the banana forum are a complete waiste of time. Just like that poll.
But carry on explaining to those who have been dealing with sims for years, how things should be. I am certain you will have many followers.
Most likely like Red Orchestra, many many empty servers, and niffty profiles where you can brag about the newest medals won for not crashing, or some other nobby achivement. Why not suggest that CoD have also a facebook link too, wouldn´t that be something for your type?
I can only laugh out loud at people like you! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

People with an actual argument for their position instead of trying to belittle others because of age? You are behaving exactly like the childish brat who you claim is the only people who could enjoy steam. My assumptions are all wrong and I know nothing but as usual, no real substance behind your anger except that facebook loving kiddies who play Red Orchestra on steam with their outrageous friends lists shouldn't tell you veterans anything. Claim to be a grown up veteran things Il2, but your true form is showing and it's anything but.

Why don't one of you take the time to explain why you believe a box release is necessary at the expense of 1C instead.

Just because big chunks of people say the same thing doesn't mean they are right. Need an example?

RSS-Martin
03-09-2011, 08:19 AM
Ah very simple because 1c would like to make money? And plenty of people have been ripped off with download versions due to faulty keys.....but heh whats the problem of paying three four times till you have the product you wish for once functionalble.........oh I am sure you know it all, do what ever you like, just don´t expect everyone else to follow like lemmings, I prefer to build my own opinion, and I know steam well enough, so I certainly do not need to rely on your opinion thankyou very much. Are you getting loyalties from steam, that you get so up tight because not everyone shares your opinion?

JG52Uther
03-09-2011, 08:30 AM
Lots of people previously unknown seem to have crawled out of the woodwork on the forums since the steam announcement was made!
Most of them seem quite rude and immature.
Paraphrasing FSM:Its not real you know,its only a game.Not life or death.

Statler86
03-09-2011, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
Ah very simple because 1c would like to make money? And plenty of people have been ripped off with download versions due to faulty keys.....but heh whats the problem of paying three four times till you have the product you wish for once functionalble.........oh I am sure you know it all, do what ever you like, just don´t expect everyone else to follow like lemmings, I prefer to build my own opinion, and I know steam well enough, so I certainly do not need to rely on your opinion thankyou very much. Are you getting loyalties from steam, that you get so up tight because not everyone shares your opinion?

I've purchased boxed games with invalid keys. I had to send a few emails to get the correct replacement keys. With online distribution this is less likely to happen since key mistakes can be corrected immediately instead of having to recall boxes from all over the world. Does this mean we should boycott boxed sets?

Your argument is invalid.

Hmm using age as a method to discredit isn't working, lets switch to post count!

HerrHomuth
03-09-2011, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Lots of people previously unknown seem to have crawled out of the woodwork on the forums since the steam announcement was made!
Most of them seem quite rude and immature.
Paraphrasing FSM:Its not real you know,its only a game.Not life or death.

+1 I have noticed this as well, but I don't know if these new guys are a good or a bad sign for the sim.

Falcke
03-09-2011, 08:54 AM
Hahahahahaha

This is absolutely incredible, just look at all this comedy gold!



I hope this is a sick joke, you’re targeted demographic isn’t or shouldn’t be 12 year olds and this will kill your new game. I really was excited about the release of COD and didn’t even mind the game, ie confusing it with an extremely popular Call Of Duty game, but this is the last straw. You’re demographic for this game should be professional people with the means and time to learn and play this for several years as your previous releases have been. This to me is a total insult to us and our – your community. Whoever is in charge of these decisions should be tarred and feathered as he/she is cutting into your Profit Margins hugely, I will NOT be buying this if it is released soley with STEAM. I have loved Il-2 for many years and I hope you rethink this disaster of a decision.
KC

This is the silliest thing I have ever seen!

'One of the reasons I refuse to buy this game is because people who are not dedicated lifelong simulator enthusiasts might actually have fun with MY series?'

So yeah, the last thing this game needs is popularity and actual income generation for one of the few actual sim developers remaining right???

kleaneasy
03-09-2011, 12:39 PM
In case anyone missed it Flatspinman (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8071032709/m/3041099319?r=2321083419#2321083419) already asked you all to drop the personal arguing.

Now I suggest you all do just that please. Like I've said I have been and continue to seek specific information on the issues you're all concerned about, meanwhile keep any opinions posted within the rules and without insults http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

carguy_
03-09-2011, 01:04 PM
Funny thing, I was a moment away from preordering the game today when I saw this thread. Steam is a no-go for me, so I did not preorder. I guess I`ll just wait and see how others find it working in practice and only then if steam is not too intrusive I will make my decision.

Meanwhile I`ll keep myself busy with SHIFT2 that has no steam. Not too much of a biggie Ubisoft, but consider that you just lost the contest of which game I buy at the end of this month.

K_Freddie
03-09-2011, 01:12 PM
Besides the personal stuff, which is fine by me.. This is 'Zoo Therapy'.. get it off your chest http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif while we wait for release.

One thing I can say about the zoo, is that it's not-so-draconian as it used to be. At one stage you couldn't say 'Boo to a ghost' and you get the 'week in the cooler'. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

To sum up.. UBI and Steam have had their fair share of problems, many here have experienced this and would not like to repeat those experiences. Thus you are going to have a lot of concern over any anouncements of their favourite games going the Steam/UBI route. This will not get any better, but worse, as this is the way businesses run as they 'come and go'.

Waiting for the bus..
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

M_Gunz
03-09-2011, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
In case anyone missed it Flatspinman (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8071032709/m/3041099319?r=2321083419#2321083419) already asked you all to drop the personal arguing.

Now I suggest you all do just that please. Like I've said I have been and continue to seek specific information on the issues you're all concerned about, meanwhile keep any opinions posted within the rules and without insults http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Yes please, real specifics. When there must be connection made for someone with a DVD copy, even if only once per install. I promise that with hardware changes/problems and just because of Windows there will be in years need for re-installs! I can't even be sure myself to always have a connection, politics/budget/fortunes of life are not set in stone. Do I want to make a major hardware upgrade to run something I may regret over a part or parts I don't care for or worse?

I have doubt and for that I seek to know more than speculation regardless of basis.

It's my money, not that of some "net-persona" who suddenly pops up to tell me to "get with it". It's bad enough that the forum page is squeezed because of some stupid advertisement for a Wii glove with a picture of a dead pedophile on it.

ElAurens
03-09-2011, 02:32 PM
Ladies and Gents, it will do us all a good turn to remember that the decision to add the Steam function to CoD was not UBI's, not Oleg's, but 1C's.

This is completely in the hands of Moscow Central, comrades...

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

TheGrunch
03-09-2011, 02:33 PM
Thankfully Solidshield seems to be very lenient in terms of activations. I was very glad to see that. None of that emailing publishers once you've used up all your handful (ever) of activations.

carguy_
03-09-2011, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
This is completely in the hands of Moscow Central, comrades...


Well I`m sure the decision is final, and those dvds are long in the works. I`m pretty sure that many ppl are just itching to buy. I myself finally got over the fact that I must accept a game that requires online activation and yet I have allow an additional app that I don`t accept, online or OFFLINE. Have to see how it works first.

K_Freddie
03-09-2011, 04:16 PM
I have no problem with online activation (as stated legally) and what SolidShield seems to 'indicate'.
What I want (as the customer):
- Offline play when I want it, with no internet connection.
- COD Server online DRMs (IL2 type - but more effective obviously)
- No Steam or UBI DRM's

Hey Presto.. Your ideal customer(Name your price - We'll talk/buy. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif )
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Stiletto-
03-10-2011, 01:16 AM
Did any of you non-steamers read the 1C Steam article I linked to? The market dictates PC games being sold on steam. If you like it or not, if I like it or not, if Oleg 1C and Ubi like it or not. This is how you sell a game like this. Best Buy, Walmart, Gamestop or Joe Blow will not let this box sit on any shelf real-estate in their store. This game will not get noticed by a shoper browsing, if they do happen to carry 1 or 2 copies and someone actually happends to see it and purchase it, wholla! the shelf is now empty for another 5 days. This software title is not marketable at a brick and mortar store, it is as simple as that.

They also demand too much of a profit from the sale as well. You have no one to blame for this game being sold on steam except Mr. Brick and Mortar himself, this was his choice to not display the product in a marketable fashion and be to greedy with the proceeds, it is noone elses fault! You might as well add Johnny Hot-Thumbs and his blistered gamepad hands and the rest of his demographic for making the target audience and not-so-coincidently the retailers store space, full of brightly colored boxes jumping out ah him sayig "BUY ME FOR $70 BUCKS AND PUT ME IN YOUR XBOX'S MOUF NOM NOM NOM!"

Sorry for the run-on sentence.

Steam is the place where most potential buyers are going to see your product available to sell, bar-none. Steam is the place where you are going to get the most sales bar-none. I am sure in the past year that there have been more sales of IL-2: 1946 on steam than anywhere else.

People used to talk about how PC gaming is dieing, sure looks like it if you go to game section in any store and compare the PC rack to the rows and rows of console games. Steams revenue in 2010 was almost 1 Billion Dollars! That can not be ignored, if you like it or not.

Like it or not, this is the way most games are going to be sold from now on and as unfortunate as it may seem to some of you, it is only helping make sure that are hobby reminds intact.

You don't have to like steam, you don't have to buy IL2:COD because it has steam in it.. But to be perfectly clear, those of you on here who choose not to buy Cliffs of Dover because of steam are such a minority that you don't even show as a blip on the radar. For every 1 person that won't buy IL-2:CoD because it uses steam, there will be 100 people that will buy it on steam because they saw it on steam. That is a fact, if you like it or not.

RSS-Martin
03-10-2011, 01:50 AM
Well like it or not its our money and we decide if we go that way. Meaning Steam fans can say what they want, they have fortunately no say over the money, and as long as that is the case, it is everyones choice, if they want to accept this dictating of how things have to be.
Sorry the more people are pushing this as "a absolute must" and "no way around" the more I say not with my money.

RSS-Martin
03-10-2011, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by Statler86:
(all of you for that matter) can swim against the tide all you like .

Looks like some one is not familiar with the saying only dead fish swim with the tide or better said current.

I don´t feel that dead yet. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

TheGrunch
03-10-2011, 02:28 AM
Maybe that's why the UK is getting the CE, Stiletto. Sims certainly get shelf space here.

M_Gunz
03-10-2011, 07:01 AM
Whether Steam reaches them or not, the Jr. Arcade Brigade won't go big on IL2. Why? Can't even take off on the 3rd try let alone be an Ace in under 2-4 hours. Even worse, might have to read up and actually learn more than a little! Hey, might as well do your homework, right? And the big all-time killer: NO CHEAT CODES!

Realism in sims makes them a niche market because fewer players want to deal with it.

TheGrunch
03-10-2011, 07:44 AM
Exactly! I can't see where all this ERR NERR IT RUIN SIM COMMUINTY WIEHHT ARCADE PLAYRs!11 comes from at all.

RSS-Martin
03-10-2011, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Whether Steam reaches them or not, the Jr. Arcade Brigade won't go big on IL2. Why? Can't even take off on the 3rd try let alone be an Ace in under 2-4 hours. Even worse, might have to read up and actually learn more than a little! Hey, might as well do your homework, right? And the big all-time killer: NO CHEAT CODES!

Realism in sims makes them a niche market because fewer players want to deal with it.
Yes you are absolutely right there! Guess no reason to be too annoyed by those youngsters,
as they will be cussing and cursing at home!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Falcke
03-10-2011, 08:43 AM
Ever played Il2 with all realism settings turned off?

Yeah.

Oh no people without a history degree in WW2 aviation might have fun with the game, god save us. I'll tell you that there is actually a LOT of people who play Il2 as a simple shooting gallery like any other arcade flight sim.

I don't understand what you people want out of this game. This stupid 'it's a niche game and it will never reach any kind of audience or generate any wortwhile profits' is so destructive for a game. But some people actually seem to get annoyed by the possibility of a larger audience and a more mainstream position.

Also, implying that Steam is populated by 12 year old twitch kids is so uninformed and wrong that there's really nothing to be said about that.

If you don't like Steam, and you are really daft enough to not buy this game JUST because you need Steam, then I suggest you do exactly that. But please stop with attempting to explain how it's everybody else's fault that you won't be buying it.

ElAurens
03-10-2011, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Whether Steam reaches them or not, the Jr. Arcade Brigade won't go big on IL2. Why? Can't even take off on the 3rd try let alone be an Ace in under 2-4 hours. Even worse, might have to read up and actually learn more than a little! Hey, might as well do your homework, right? And the big all-time killer: NO CHEAT CODES!

Realism in sims makes them a niche market because fewer players want to deal with it.
Yes you are absolutely right there! Guess no reason to be too annoyed by those youngsters,
as they will be cussing and cursing at home!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But just think of all the new, easy meat, online when they do start to play.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

TheGrunch
03-10-2011, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by Falcke:
Oh no people without a history degree in WW2 aviation might have fun with the game, god save us. I'll tell you that there is actually a LOT of people who play Il2 as a simple shooting gallery like any other arcade flight sim.
+1...Who cares how people enjoy the sim if it's not on the same server as you? Plus, plenty of people begin to appreciate the game and come to appreciate the more realistic settings as they play more. When I first started playing Il-2 I always used to fly with external views enabled until I tried out no externals and realised how heart-pounding it is in comparison.
I remember how annoyed I was when I first started playing online and I realised that the reason so many people were catching me when I was below their wingline was because they had the cockpit turned off...I had no idea that anyone would ever want to do that when I first signed up for Hyperlobby.
However, that was my fault for going on Skies of Fire because it was the first server I saw that was full of people. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

kleaneasy
03-10-2011, 01:32 PM
I'll be honest guys I've lost track of all the threads questioning the CE and regions its available etc, I know it was raised here so posting this here and if you think I've missed any threads please let me know or feel free to pass the following on

Specific to the Collectors edition and availability....

Contrary to my earlier comments the collectors edition is NOT UK exclusive. It is available throughout Europe but as previously detailed not in the US.

In the UK it is exclusive to the Ubishop so this is the only place you can buy it, however we're unsure about European stores but trying to find out

I've also asked for a full list of which countries will have the DVD version or digital to avoid the ongoing confusion, we don't have that right now but the guys are going to try and get hold of a full list for us. I'll let you all know as soon as I've got it


That said, no I havent forgotten the steamworks questions, still waiting on answers to those but hope the above goes some way to helping with outstanding questions

M_Gunz
03-10-2011, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Whether Steam reaches them or not, the Jr. Arcade Brigade won't go big on IL2. Why? Can't even take off on the 3rd try let alone be an Ace in under 2-4 hours. Even worse, might have to read up and actually learn more than a little! Hey, might as well do your homework, right? And the big all-time killer: NO CHEAT CODES!

Realism in sims makes them a niche market because fewer players want to deal with it.
Yes you are absolutely right there! Guess no reason to be too annoyed by those youngsters,
as they will be cussing and cursing at home!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But just think of all the new, easy meat, online when they do start to play.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The point being that the Jr. Arcade Brigade won't go big on IL2, just because "Steam reaches so many people" doesn't mean that it will bring in a huge customer base to replace those who might leave. That's what the "niche market" part is about.

BTW, it's not about history degrees but rather about piloting requiring more than point the nose and off you go. You know, the bit about not being able to take off right away? Needing to LEARN some things? READING. Hey, last I checked there is no history knowledge NEEDED to play IL2!

I write one thing and sure enough not a single reply actually addresses it. Typical day at The Zoo.

ElAurens
03-10-2011, 02:53 PM
Max, I completely understand, and agree with your assesment.

Will the sim pick up new sales because of Steam?

Yes. And we should welcome the new blood, and be as helpful as we can so we can keep our genre healthy.

Will the sim gain lots of new long term players because of Steam?

No.

For the reasons M_Guns alluded to.

Anyone who thinks that combat flight simulation, no matter the difficulty level, is going to have a player base to rival FPS twitch shooters, or MMORPGs, is not from this planet.

Pankratz1980
03-10-2011, 02:58 PM
Wow, so first the Collector's Edition isn't available anywhere, now it looks like Solidshield is NOT enough, they'll add another DRM layer like Steam!
WHY??!!


Originally posted by Stiletto-:
Steam is the place where most potential buyers are going to see your product available to sell, bar-none. Steam is the place where you are going to get the most sales bar-none. I am sure in the past year that there have been more sales of IL-2: 1946 on steam than anywhere else.


You know what, there's a difference between having your game available via Steam and downright FORCING your clients to use it, even if they get a retail copy!
I happen to prefer Impulse for my digital distribution needs and boxed releases, looks like the first option now doesn't exist since Stardock aren't stupid and refuse to carry Steamworks titles because of the requirement to launch them through the store client...
As for option two, I will still HAVE to use Steam even to have the priviledge of INSTALLING my game, because Steamworks games require that you have Steam installed and updated and that you be logged in online to even INSTALL. As if that wasn't enough, Steam will have to be running in the background for COD to even launch.

That's NONSENSE. Steam PUNISHES legit customers. People only love it because of "75% off" SALES. How does that benefit your averge Joe, who did NOT buy COD from Steam?

Don't act like Steam saved PC gaming. It's a lie. Digital distribution is taking off, that's all. Steam happens to be the biggest because from the very beginning, people were FORCED to use it. Counter Strike, Half-life 2, and now even third party games by using Steamworks. Most people don't even know there are other options (like Gamersgate, D2D, Impulse, Gog.com) or just said "screw it, I have this Steam thing already installed anyway, so let's keep my games in one place".
Most Steam users weren't given a CHOICE.

HerrHomuth
03-10-2011, 04:38 PM
ms-kleaneasy
Thank you ms-kleaneasy, I hope that we will get some more information concerning all that soon, there's so much information around but the pieces just don't fit to make it one clear picture http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Homuth

DanoClark
03-10-2011, 04:50 PM
Are we still on for the 25th for release?

M_Gunz
03-10-2011, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
Max, I completely understand, and agree with your assesment.

Will the sim pick up new sales because of Steam?

Yes. And we should welcome the new blood, and be as helpful as we can so we can keep our genre healthy.

Will the sim gain lots of new long term players because of Steam?

No.

For the reasons M_Guns alluded to.

Anyone who thinks that combat flight simulation, no matter the difficulty level, is going to have a player base to rival FPS twitch shooters, or MMORPGs, is not from this planet.

Yeah, anyone who can stick with it is automatically NOT a member of the Jr. Arcade Brigade! From there it's just getting past the mudhen hurdle (not being a dweeb) to becoming a good player! What's a dweeb? Them's that cry they should not have lost because they 'took the best plane!', it's from a really old-in-online-simming Warbirds term known as Spit-dweeb. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Out of all computer gamers just as in life, not everyone is up to putting in the patience and discipline to get into serious flight sims. Even able, what they get out of it may not wind their clock. Not everyone fits the niche and vice-versa. The customers who will stay and get like-minded friends into it are the ones that fit, not just everyone who sees an ad and tries it out.

TheGrunch
03-11-2011, 05:23 AM
I suspect:
a) You are hugely overestimating the number of people that will not buy this game due to Steam - not that many I'd guess. Polls aren't really a good indication because I think that there are people who think that enough negative votes will make Ubi and 1C change their minds at this late stage.
b) You are underestimating how good the Steam store is at exposing people to games they would buy but have never seen before.
c) You are underestimating the number of people who would be perfectly happy to play this game on reduced difficulty settings until the cows come home - they are in essence the Jr. Arcade Brigade that you refer to. Arcade players CAN play Il-2 and have fun...it's just that Il-2 is old now and most of the arcade players have got bored and moved on. In fact, that's what my brother did when Il-2 came out when he was a kid! I think the only reason that he stopped playing is because *I* played it and he didn't want to be like his big brother, rarr. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
d) You are underestimating the number of mainstream gamers that have that fighter pilot fantasy. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Nowadays, if people are exposed to advertising that makes a game look good, many buy it. The problem is that usually for flight-sims there isn't any that is likely to reach a decent amount of people or indeed those that are interested. Steam will help in that regard but as usual word of mouth is just as important.
I might start a thread on Something Awful's Let's Play forum about CoD when it comes out. Not sure how it'd work but it's certainly worth trying for how many people browse that forum that might buy it (there are 400 browsing at the moment, for example). There's a 50-odd page long Let's Play Silent Hunter 3 thread on that forum. I think if there's enough word-of-mouth advertising goes on for this game it could sell very well - obviously not on the multi-million dollar marketing campaign FPS scale, but enough for the game to really take off.
As for your last point, that is very true...but are we not hoping to find as many of the like-minded people as possible? How does Steam hurt that? Do you know how many people play Hearts of Iron and the like on Steam?

PB0_shadow
03-11-2011, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:

In the UK it is exclusive to the Ubishop so this is the only place you can buy it, however we're unsure about European stores but trying to find out


Seems to be available at amazon.fr.

For the rest, I'll pm you

M_Gunz
03-11-2011, 02:42 PM
Right. Players who want to play arcade level IL2 and can't even get off the runway will have a great time?

They would be happier with Pacific Aces Merged if enough of them got together to fill some servers.

BUT what they'll really go for is something newer and less arcade with very few planes and no mods, I should guess.

Sure, copies of the new sim will sell. What I tell you is that the JAB will not become repeat buyers and will tell friends of other games to buy instead. RTS, FPS, RPG, something with as naked as possible women with huge lungs.

Maybe later on they will turn to flight sims or maybe they will get into racing old cars or bikes.

Relatively few of the new will become long time flight sim fans.

This Steam issue needs to be answered in clear terms for the community that is here now. Just pushing people with genuine questions and issues to buy is asking to lose proven supporters, many with bad experiences about online schemes -- it's asking too much to say "jump because I say, you don't need to know how it is used".
In my case, jump is not just game price but plus 12+x more in upgrade, and I am not alone. If I had already spent the upgrade money just for this and found out this new twist after years of hearing nothing then believe me, I would be one pi__ed off potential non-customer!

I know it's not one simple package but then I didn't add the extra complications, I just want to know what they will -actually, not probably- do and need before I spend time and money. I can support Maddox Games buy buying copies of 1946 anyway. I am not sure that I want to support Steam and DRM. At least I am open to official explanation that gives me details instead of waffling while people blow smoke at me.

Corrvan
03-11-2011, 05:19 PM
How about australia?
Can't order it from amazon.fr, "cannot ship to this address" just like every other amazon store, No australian friendly stores (such as play-asia, ozgameshop.com [A UK store]) have it in their lists,and all the local game stores) have not even heard of IL2, let alone cliffs of dover. Ubishop won't let my account purchase a UK version either.
One person found a website "boostep.com" but they no longer have copies available.

Is there any way I will be able to buy the collectors edition? As a RL pilot the spitfire notes etc really make me drool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

avimimus
03-11-2011, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by apple3.14:
Are we still on for the 25th for release?

Of September? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

avimimus
03-11-2011, 10:19 PM
Btw. I'm with M_Gunz - tread carefully on the niche - it's worked so far, but it isn't necessary business as usual and it may be a bit more delicate than we think.

JG301_HP
03-12-2011, 12:57 AM
Well, as for CE beeing available in europe that's not true for Sweden. I have my preorder cancelled by the company cause it won't be sold here.

That said I'm one of the elders and I'll wait untill I see what happens and most likely I will not buy this because of steam requirements. Simply don't like the data mining it does and don't want more software than necessary on my "can". I'm fully aware that I'm probably miss the greatest sim ever produced but thats my decision and its my money.

Happy flight to all of you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TheGrunch
03-12-2011, 05:14 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Right. Players who want to play arcade level IL2 and can't even get off the runway will have a great time?
I suspect you've never played the sim on arcade settings. I haven't, thinking about it, but I'd imagine that no torque, p-factor, gyro effects, invulnerability, simple engine management and easy takeoffs and landings make the problem a bit more trivial than you expect. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

You're completely forgetting how scaleable the difficulty settings of this game are going to be. Have you seen the Fun4all server on HL? I always laugh when I see it. I think there are one or two boxes ticked in the difficulty settings. Vulnerability, and something else, I can't remember.

Honestly, try Il-2 with everything except vulnerability off, I think you'll be surprised how accessible it is.

The arcade brigade *could* love CoD because it's pretty and it's a popular scenario with classic flight sim aircraft, and they can play it as a Wings of Prey-a-like if they want. They'd just have to be exposed to it.

But that's not the important part, as like you say that doesn't generate repeat buyers. However, Steam simply gives the game more exposure to potential buyers. I can't imagine ANY situation in which that would not generate repeat buyers. Especially if they can pick the game up in a sale for a quick punt at it and then realise that they actually love it.

I don't really want the game to be on Steam, I'd rather it was optional, but I can understand why 1C have done it.

ElAurens
03-12-2011, 06:25 AM
What is really sad about all this is that a very simple solution existed, and the Russian publisher 1C didn't make a good choice.

I can understand marketing on Steam. It's a vast pool of money to tap. All they had to do was just market on Steam, and also have their traditional distribution paths, without the requirement for a Steam account to play for those that don't want to use Steam. That would have been a win~win situation. The Steam fans would be able to access the game the way they like, and the loyal old time players would be happy as well.

Bohemia Interactive went that way with Arma II and it works out just fine.

I just do not understand this decision.

M_Gunz
03-12-2011, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by TheGrunch:
I suspect you've never played the sim on arcade settings. I haven't, thinking about it, but I'd imagine that no torque, p-factor, gyro effects, invulnerability, simple engine management and easy takeoffs and landings make the problem a bit more trivial than you expect.

In the last month we've had two new players come here about takeoffs. One stuck with it, asked and tried and succeeded. The other didn't even with torque, etc, OFF.

I don't have to imagine. I've seen the posts and those ain't the first. The thing is that 98% of customers don't come to the forums and ask or play online. They have a problem then that's it, they move on to the next new thing.

Sure, Steam will get extra sales but will it be The Golden Door?

And once it gets known that a large section of the customer base is into mindless arcade play then there will be glitzy competition that delivers loads of that, perhaps Janes WWII Fighters or Lucas SWOTL will get facelift/remakes. Someone may spend the time that Maddox Games put into physical realism into more eye candy and RPG type background instead and see how long the JAB sticks around. The niche players won't go for less FM or DM but the arcade players already do.

...

AFAIK Oleg has Steam in for online anti-cheat. Possibly the only time the Steam code runs is when you play online but for some reason you are still required to have the account to play at all. Possibly but no one who can know says one way or the other. Or even that it will be possible to play without a connect even at startup. I'm still waiting and hope to get straight answers without marketing hedge, waffle or double talk.

JG52Uther
03-12-2011, 09:51 AM
And while everyone is so over the moon with steam,lets hope we don't end up with EA games system:
From the destructoid forums,not directly linking 'cos of the swearing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
If you ever needed more evidence of how ludicrously some publishers treat PC players, you can stop your search right here. A gamer was recently punished for using "bad language" on BioWare's forums with a ban from Dragon Age II. Yep, if you screw up on a message board, EA can stop you from playing legally purchased, offline games.

The ban was for referring to EA as a "devil", which netted the user a 72-hour suspension. During that period, he was unable to play Dragon Age II because he needed his suspended account in order to activate it. BioWare's only response was to copy and paste the terms and services of its forums, basically in order to say "not our problem."

Electronic Arts, however, has since revoked the ban -- likely due to a lot of outraged gamer backlash -- and has claimed the suspension from the game was a "mistake." Apparently he was only supposed to be suspended from the forum, but got locked out of everything that requires an EA account.

Yet further proof that EA doesn't know what the beep it's doing with its stupid EA account nonsense. Still, nice to know that such clueless chimps can essentially hold your games to ransom.

M_Gunz
03-12-2011, 06:31 PM
That's the thing about 'strings' like accounts, there's always someone on the other end with some kind of power over you.

Maybe the reason why some players have more problems with getting into these kind of things is due to experience with contracts.

Rjel
03-12-2011, 10:21 PM
I was just reading on the Ubi website some of the Q&As about Steam. I've only used it once for a free DL after buying a new graphics card. All and all, I was underwhelmed with both the free game and Steam. Only messed with both of them just that once. But after reading a lot of the comments here and on the Ubi order page, I find my eagerness for CoD waning. Why, if CoD is going to be so taxing on our systems, would I want or even need Steam running in the background? I'm not interested in "chatting" with some 12 year old pimple faced kid while I play.

So for me, I guess I'll wait until I can get a hard copy. If ever. Sorry Oleg.

robtek1957
03-13-2011, 02:29 AM
@Rjel

You need Steam to play this Game!!
It doesn't matter if you downloaded it or have the DVD.

TheGrunch
03-13-2011, 04:56 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
And once it gets known that a large section of the customer base is into mindless arcade play then there will be glitzy competition that delivers loads of that, perhaps Janes WWII Fighters or Lucas SWOTL will get facelift/remakes. Someone may spend the time that Maddox Games put into physical realism into more eye candy and RPG type background instead and see how long the JAB sticks around. The niche players won't go for less FM or DM but the arcade players already do.

We already have that competition, it's called Wings of Prey. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif The point is, that was two people who came onto the forum and asked that for a release that is 4 years old and only appears on sites like GoG and in bargain bins. Assuming Steam release doesn't get screwed over too badly we could see much more exposure than that this time.
Anyway, we'll see, all a bit pointless discussing the hypotheticals I guess.


Originally posted by M_Gunz:
AFAIK Oleg has Steam in for online anti-cheat. Possibly the only time the Steam code runs is when you play online but for some reason you are still required to have the account to play at all. Possibly but no one who can know says one way or the other. Or even that it will be possible to play without a connect even at startup. I'm still waiting and hope to get straight answers without marketing hedge, waffle or double talk.
If that's the case, it's a pity, because Valve's anti-cheat stuff is reputably pretty bad. I wouldn't hold out too much hope for being able to run the game completely on its own, but it might be possible if you run the game .exe out of the Steam/steamapps/Il2CoD or whatever directory.


Originally posted by ElAurens:
All they had to do was just market on Steam, and also have their traditional distribution paths, without the requirement for a Steam account to play for those that don't want to use Steam. That would have been a win~win situation. The Steam fans would be able to access the game the way they like, and the loyal old time players would be happy as well.
I'd say you pretty much hit the nail on the head, the "Activate game on Steam" function is in the Steam menu for a reason. I guess Steam's been used to complete the game's multiplayer functionality and that's why it's not optional.

kimosabi79
03-13-2011, 05:17 AM
Originally posted by TheGrunch:
If that's the case, it's a pity, because Valve's anti-cheat stuff is reputably pretty bad. I wouldn't hold out too much hope for being able to run the game completely on its own, but it might be possible if you run the game .exe out of the Steam/steamapps/Il2CoD or whatever directory.



That's what I'm doing with IL-2, running it outside the Steam directory, and it works fine. Will have to see how this CloDo game works though. IL-2 does not exactly have much "anti piracy" stuff going on. lol

sully_pa
03-13-2011, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by Pankratz1980:
Wow, so first the Collector's Edition isn't available anywhere, now it looks like Solidshield is NOT enough, they'll add another DRM layer like Steam!
WHY??!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stiletto-:
Steam is the place where most potential buyers are going to see your product available to sell, bar-none. Steam is the place where you are going to get the most sales bar-none. I am sure in the past year that there have been more sales of IL-2: 1946 on steam than anywhere else.


You know what, there's a difference between having your game available via Steam and downright FORCING your clients to use it, even if they get a retail copy!
I happen to prefer Impulse for my digital distribution needs and boxed releases, looks like the first option now doesn't exist since Stardock aren't stupid and refuse to carry Steamworks titles because of the requirement to launch them through the store client...
As for option two, I will still HAVE to use Steam even to have the priviledge of INSTALLING my game, because Steamworks games require that you have Steam installed and updated and that you be logged in online to even INSTALL. As if that wasn't enough, Steam will have to be running in the background for COD to even launch.

That's NONSENSE. Steam PUNISHES legit customers. People only love it because of "75% off" SALES. How does that benefit your averge Joe, who did NOT buy COD from Steam?

Don't act like Steam saved PC gaming. It's a lie. Digital distribution is taking off, that's all. Steam happens to be the biggest because from the very beginning, people were FORCED to use it. Counter Strike, Half-life 2, and now even third party games by using Steamworks. Most people don't even know there are other options (like Gamersgate, D2D, Impulse, Gog.com) or just said "screw it, I have this Steam thing already installed anyway, so let's keep my games in one place".
Most Steam users weren't given a CHOICE. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Totally agree +1

Rjel
03-13-2011, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by robtek1957:
@Rjel

You need Steam to play this Game!!
It doesn't matter if you downloaded it or have the DVD.

:sigh: This just keeps getting better, doesn't it? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Gibbage1
03-13-2011, 03:15 PM
I havent posted here for quite some time, but this I need to chime in on.

LEt me first say that I like Steam. Love it in fact. For many reasons. Yes, it has its problems, but overall its a great service.

Cons. Lets get this out of the way.

#1, On big launches, DOWNLOADING the game can be SLOW. Going out and getting the game in a store can be faster. I dont see COD being one of these bandwidth chewing monsters.
#2, For big releases they sometimes allow pre-loading, but it can sometimes take hours just to activate the pre-loaded product. You really wonder why you pre-loaded it anyway.

Those are the only two cons I can think of after using Steam for YEARS.

Pro's.

#1, More money reaches Oleg. You want to support the dev? BUY IT ON STEAM! Why have a DVD when its just going to gather dust? Get with the times. Also Steam is more eco friendly since it saves a tree and keeps plastic out of the trash.

#2, I have about 50 games in my Steam liebrary right now that I can install at any time I wanted, no questions asked. I may have about 1% of my DVD/CD's left due to loss. Also, some of the DVD's/CD's need keys, and I lost those, making them worthless. CD Keys are saved to your account in Steam, so no loss.

#3, I can load Steam on my work PC, or other PC's and have my games there ready for me on gamenight. I dont need to pack CD's or download cracks or whatnot. It just works!

#4, Online play. Sorry, but IL2's game clients sucked. You had the default client that sucked. Hyperlobby was not very good. You had other clients like Gamespy and Ever Seeing Eye. That just fragmented the online servers since they all didnt look at a single server database. With Steam at its core, it will bring the online community togeather!!! It also comes with its own VOX client, so you wont need Vent or TS! Its a win/win for online playing. If you see you friend is flying online, right click on his name and join in!!!

#5, I dont know if CoD will use this, but some games do. Steam has a cloud based saved game feature, so your settings carry over from PC to PC, and so does your saved games. I think its called Steam Cloud or something.

#6, Achievements. Not all of us are achievement *****s, but im sure you can track your friends kill/death ratio online. You can sort of do that with IL2, but only on a per-server basis.

I im really glad to see Oleg and 1C tapping into Steam. Your going to QQ over a little DRM? Get over it! Im fine with DRM as long as it does not interupt MY gameplay. I have never ONCE been kicked out of a Steam game due to getting knocked off-line. NOT ONCE!!! The benifits by far out-weigh the negitives.

Jaws2002
03-13-2011, 05:05 PM
+1 on Steam. Smart move.

With UBI's Marketing as it is http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif, Steam is the single best way for this game to get some exposure to people other than Il-2 players and harcore flight simers.

Jaws2002
03-13-2011, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:
+1 on Steam. Smart move.

With UBI's Marketing as it is http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif, Steam is the single best way for this game to get some exposure to people other than Il-2 players and harcore flight simmers.

ElAurens
03-13-2011, 05:13 PM
Jaws, I agree that marketing on Steam is good for the sim, but why require those of us who do not buy it from Steam to have a Steam account to play?

This is the crux of the issue.

Von_Rat
03-13-2011, 05:19 PM
im surprised there's so many Luddites in the pc gaming community, especially this community.

im not any huge fanboy of steam, but common the sky isn't falling just because COD is going to use it.

ElAurens
03-13-2011, 05:33 PM
This isn't about being a Luddite. I think it's rather odd to call people who play computer games, who by and large build their own computers and who are on the bleeding edge of PC technology most of the time, Luddites.

It's about freedom in the marketplace. You know that thing that most of the folks who use computers get all edgy about when govenments try to pull the same things that this absurd scheme is trying to do.

I'll say it again plainly...

Why the requirement to have a Steam account to play the game if you didn't purchase the game from Steam?

It's a simple question that has yet to be answered.

Von_Rat
03-13-2011, 06:01 PM
I think it's rather odd to call people who play computer games, who by and large build their own computers and who are on the bleeding edge of PC technology most of the time, Luddites.

that was my whole point. i find it odd that so many people who play computer games, especially the tech savy people here, should be so resistant to change.

btw i wasn't directing my coment at you personally, it was directed at the posters who seem to be against any kind of change.

M_Gunz
03-13-2011, 06:32 PM
Nice to know what you're stepping in to before you take the step isn't it? This is business and suddenly having a new twist in the deal at the last moment without any clear explanation does not engender trust except in the naive, inexperienced and gullible. Even after being given examples of past and current problems due to the same kind of thing there are those who want to urge "just close your eyes and quit worrying, everything's fine".

What's wrong with asking for straight and complete answers and not wanting to go ahead without them? Why shouldn't people become concerned about such a lack?

Rjel
03-13-2011, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by Von_Rat:
that was my whole point. i find it odd that so many people who play computer games, especially the tech savy people here, should be so resistant to change.


That still isn't answering the question though, is it? What if someone loses their internet connection? Maybe it just isn't in their budget anymore, not difficult to imagine in today's economy. Can that person still play his game(s) on Steam? I really would like to know. I would hate to have CoD sitting out there and not being able to play whenever the mood strikes me.

WTE_Ibis
03-13-2011, 06:37 PM
[QUOTE]

I'll say it again plainly...

Why the requirement to have a Steam account to play the game if you didn't purchase the game from Steam?
=============================================


Exactly!!!!!

. I've just cancelled an order for parts for a major upgrade.
No point till I find out whether I can bypass steam or whether I'll think it's worth the aggro.
Cheers.


.

Gimpymoo
03-13-2011, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
Why the requirement to have a Steam account to play the game if you didn't purchase the game from Steam?

It's a simple question that has yet to be answered.

I will answer it.

The game incorporates Steamworks:

http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/

Some of the benefits are here:

http://www.steampowered.com/st...rks/gameservices.php (http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/gameservices.php)

Now, with the game supporting 128 players, it is important that players are "Unified" as much as possible.

A service like Steam allows this, it also simplifies patching for the developers as you do not have to patch for retail and each individual digital distributor which can be very frustrating for customers.

This makes patching a much simpler process.

Also, by adding Steamworks support, they are making the game appealing to more people as like it or not, a large number of people like Steam and Steamworks titles with their benefits very much add value to the product.

Steam is not resource hungry like the odd few on here would have you believe, if Steam is tipping your system over the edge, you have serious problems.

All you guys who think Steam is "Aggro".. have you actually tried it, if so, how was it aggro and was it Steams fault or you not understanding and not asking anyone for help?

Steam is not aggro, installing a game from DVD then patching to latest verison is more aggro than Steam.

All you guys are doing is seeming to be spitting your dummies out as a bunch elitists, protesting against change.

Steam integration IS PROGRESS for the series, if you cannot see that, seeya... there will almost another 2 buying this game for each of you who leaves it thanks to these decisions.

Von_Rat
03-13-2011, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Nice to know what you're stepping in to before you take the step isn't it? This is business and suddenly having a new twist in the deal at the last moment without any clear explanation does not engender trust except in the naive, inexperienced and gullible. Even after being given examples of past and current problems due to the same kind of thing there are those who want to urge "just close your eyes and quit worrying, everything's fine".

What's wrong with asking for straight and complete answers and not wanting to go ahead without them? Why shouldn't people become concerned about such a lack?

asking questions is fine, getting bent outta shape (not directed at you), over not getting answers quick enough is something else.

i just dropped about 2k on a new system and monitor mainly to play this game and one other, and im not concerned in the least.

i guess that makes me naive, oh well.

M_Gunz
03-13-2011, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by patrat1:
i just dropped about 2k on a new system and monitor mainly to play this game and one other, and im not concerned in the least.

i guess that makes me naive, oh well.

It makes your position pretty clear. You've already committed and you're -not- concerned? Uh-huh. Naive isn't the word at all.

M_Gunz
03-13-2011, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by Gimpymoo:
Steam integration IS PROGRESS for the series, if you cannot see that, seeya... there will almost another 2 buying this game for each of you who leaves it thanks to these decisions.


Posts: 4 | Registered: Tue January 11 2011

Gibbage1
03-13-2011, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
Why the requirement to have a Steam account to play the game if you didn't purchase the game from Steam?


Yes, the question HAS BEEN ANSWERED many times, you just dont like the answer. Simply put, Steam gives Oleg a UNIFIED multiplayer client. Hyperlobby was OK, but only the hardcore knew about it, and the Ubi gameserver was a joke. This way, ANYONE WHO PLAYS CAN JOIN IN THE ONLINE FUN!!!!!!

Let me repeat, in case you glossed over it again.

UNIFIED GAME CLIENT

LESS FRACTURED ONLINE COMMUNITY

I still dont understand the hate on Steam. Most ppl's worry about Steam is total urbin legends and nonesense. Get over your fears, save a tree, and get with the times.

Chivas
03-13-2011, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by Rjel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
that was my whole point. i find it odd that so many people who play computer games, especially the tech savy people here, should be so resistant to change.


That still isn't answering the question though, is it? What if someone loses their internet connection? Maybe it just isn't in their budget anymore, not difficult to imagine in today's economy. Can that person still play his game(s) on Steam? I really would like to know. I would hate to have CoD sitting out there and not being able to play whenever the mood strikes me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don't need steam to play offline. You only use steam to play online.

ElAurens
03-14-2011, 05:40 AM
I will guarantee you that if this discussion was about head tracking software, that the majority of the Steam fan boys would be against the major player in the technology and for (free) choice in the marketplace.

Why is the discussion about Steam any different?

The hypocrisy runs deep here.
__________________

Gibbage1
03-14-2011, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by ElAurens:

The hypocrisy runs deep here.
__________________

Whats your fears/concerns about Steam? Why the hate?

jameson2010
03-14-2011, 09:51 AM
Gibbage the argument is that we are being offered no choice, sign up to this crap or go away. This is being forced on us. Essentially it's about steam's desire to be a monopoly platform for game distribution. When a game is only available through them then pay to play isn't far away. As you have stated everyone will be locked into steam's servers and you can only play if they say so despite having paid full price for the product. Steam fans don't seem in the least bothered about these trolls turning up out of the blue and being frankly offensive to people who have no use for or interest in steam. About as much interest in fact as these people have in COD, i.e. none. I too will wait and see how this plays out. Oleg has stated he's not exactly a fan of DRM, so what he's thinks of this I can only guess. As I've never played COD, I can't say I'll miss it. If 1c want my money they will have to rethink their approach. Ironic the game's about the fight for personal freedom as opposed to life under the totalitarian regime of the Nazi's, who will decide what you do, say and think for you. Yeah, let's surrender, it's the future of gaming, just get the tattoo on your arm, oh and those camps they send you to, you'll have to take a shower first....

RSS-Martin
03-14-2011, 10:03 AM
When I read through this pile of do do, I get a feeling this is almost as loony as that facebook crap. Just look at what one has to agree to! They have all rights, you just have the right to say yes. To those people I would like to say shove it! Who do you think you are!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

"Quote:
This Steam Subscriber Agreement ("Agreement") is a legal document that explains your rights and obligations as a Subscriber. Please read it carefully.

1. REGISTRATION AND ACTIVATION.

Steam is an online service ("Steam") offered by Valve Corporation ("Valve").

You become a subscriber of Steam ("Subscriber") by installing the Steam client software and completing the Steam registration. Additionally, as a Subscriber you may obtain access to certain services, software and content ("Subscriptions") available to Subscribers. Conclusion of this contract between Valve and you takes place as soon as you access the Steam service after accepting this Agreement.

Unless you are a Licensed Cybercafe Operator (as defined below), this Agreement does not allow you to exploit the Software or any of its parts for any commercial purpose including, but not limited to, use at a Cybercafe, computer gaming center or any other location-based site. A "Cybercafe" is a physical establishment in which computer stations are made available for use by customers. A "Licensed Cybercafe Operator" is a Cybercafe that has agreed to the Subscription Terms for Licensed Cybercafe Operators posted at http://store.steampowered.com/cybercafe_agreement/.

Each Subscription allows you access to certain services, software and other content under the terms of each such Subscription and this Agreement. Additional terms provided with each such Subscription ("Subscription Terms") may apply to the use of a given Subscription, and are incorporated into this Agreement. Further, additional terms (for example, fees and billing procedures) may be posted on http://www.steampowered.com or within the Steam service ("Rules of Use"), and are incorporated into this Agreement. As a Subscriber, you agree to all of the terms and conditions of the Valve Privacy Policy, which are also incorporated into this Agreement. A copy of the Valve Privacy Policy can be found at http://www.valvesoftware.com/privacy.htm.

When you complete Steam's registration process, you create a Steam account ("Account"). Your Account may also include billing information you provide to us for the purchase of Subscriptions. You are solely responsible for all activity on your Account and for the security of your computer system. You may not reveal, share or otherwise allow others to use your password or Account. You agree that you are personally responsible for the use of your password and Account and for all of the communication and activity on Steam that results from use of your login name and password. You may not sell or charge others for the right to use your Account, or otherwise transfer your Account.

2. LICENSES

A. License Terms.

Steam and your Subscription(s) require the automatic download and installation of software and other content and updates onto your computer ("Software"). You may not use the Software for any purpose other than the permitted access to Steam and your Subscriptions. You understand that for reasons that include, without limitation, system security, stability, and multiplayer interoperability, Steam may need to automatically update, pre-load, create new versions or otherwise enhance the Software and accordingly, the system requirements to use the Software may change over time. You understand that neither this Agreement nor the terms associated with a particular Subscription entitles you to future updates, new versions or other enhancements of the Software associated with a particular Subscription although Valve may choose to provide such updates, etc. in its sole discretion.

Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license and right to use the Software for your personal use in accordance with this Agreement and the Subscription Terms. The Software is licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Software.

Additionally, Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license (the “Installer License ”) to reproduce and distribute an unlimited number of exact copies of the Steam client installation software ("Steam Installer") via online download; provided that the following conditions are met:

(i) you must redistribute the Steam Installer in its entirety;
(ii) you must not modify the Steam Installer in any way nor integrate or combine it with another software program;
(iii) you must redistribute the Steam Installer on a non-commercial basis (i.e. you may not charge any fee or receive any compensation for your redistribution);
(iv) you must include any Valve license agreement provided with the Steam Installer; and
(v) you must preserve in all copies of the Steam Installer all copyright and legal notices that are attached to the copy of the Steam Installer received by you.

B. Beta Software Terms

Valve may from time to time make software accessible to you via Steam prior to the general commercial release of such software ("Beta Software"). You are not required to use Beta Software, but if Valve offers it, you may elect to use it under the following terms. Beta Software will be deemed to be Software, and each item of Beta Software provided will be deemed a Subscription for such Beta Software, with the following provisions specific to Beta Software:

(i) your right to use the Beta Software license is effective until the earlier of: (a) Valve ceases to make the Beta Software accessible to you; (b) Valve issues a final release of the software that corresponds to the Beta Software; or (c) termination by Valve pursuant to Section 13 below;
(ii) certain Beta Software may be made available to you subject to additional Subscription Terms to which you must agree as a condition of use of the Beta Software;
(iii) Valve may request or require that you provide suggestions, feedback, or data regarding your use of the Beta Software, which will be deemed User Generated Information under Section 7 below; and
(iv) in addition to the waivers and limitations of liability for all Software under Section 9 below, you specifically acknowledge that Beta Software is not final and may create incompatibilities or damage to your computer, data, and/or software. If you decide to install and/or use Beta Software, it is entirely at your own risk.

C. Source SDK.

Your Subscription(s) may contain access to the Valve software development kit (the "SDK") for the computer game engine used in Half-Life 2 and other compatible Valve products (the "Source Engine"). You may use, reproduce and modify the SDK on a non-commercial basis solely to develop a modified game (a "Mod") for Half-Life 2 or other Valve products compatible with and using the Source Engine. You may reproduce and distribute the Mod in object code form, solely to licensed end users of Half-Life 2 or other compatible Valve products, provided that the Mod is made publicly available and distributed without charge on a non-commercial basis

If you would like to use the Source SDK or a Mod for a commercial purpose or activity, please contact Valve at sourceengine@valvesoftware.com.

D. Ownership.

All title, ownership rights and intellectual property rights in and to the Software and any and all copies thereof are owned by Valve and/or its licensors. All rights reserved, except as expressly stated herein. The Software is protected by the copyright laws of the United States, international copyright treaties and conventions and other laws. The Software contains certain licensed materials and Valve's licensors may protect their rights in the event of any violation of this Agreement.

E. Restrictions.

Except as otherwise permitted under Section 2(C) with regard to the SDK, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code, modify, disassemble, decompile, create derivative works based on, or remove any proprietary notices or labels from the Software or any software accessed via Steam without the prior consent, in writing, of Valve.

You are entitled to use the Software for your own use, but you are not entitled to: (i) sell, grant a security interest in or transfer reproductions of the Software to other parties in any way, nor to rent, lease or license the Software to others without the prior written consent of Valve; (ii) host or provide matchmaking services for the Software or emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Valve in any network feature of the Software, through protocol emulation, tunneling, modifying or adding components to the Software, use of a utility program or any other techniques now known or hereafter developed, for any purpose including, but not limited to network play over the Internet, network play utilizing commercial or non-commercial gaming networks or as part of content aggregation networks, without the prior written consent of Valve; or (iii) exploit the Software or any of its parts for any commercial purpose.

3. MERCHANDISE

A. General.

Valve may from time to time offer items other than software, content and services for purchase via Steam (e.g., apparel, books, posters, etc.) ("Merchandise"). Valve may offer Merchandise together with or separate from Subscriptions, but such Merchandise is incidental to Subscriptions and the predominant purpose of Steam is and shall remain the provision of Subscriptions and services related thereto. All offers to purchase Merchandise via Steam are made and accepted subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement. Your communications with Valve or submission of any purchase order or other similar forms containing provisions contrary to the terms of this Agreement or the terms presented by Valve during purchase of Merchandise via Steam are hereby rejected and are not binding on Valve.

B. Shipping & Risk of Loss

This is a shipment contract. All Merchandise will be shipped FOB Blaine, Washington, unless Valve designates otherwise on Steam in connection with a particular order. If you are an international customer, you acknowledge that Merchandise will be shipped from the United States and that you are responsible for any applicable import duties, customs fees, and taxes. Valve's liability as to delivery ceases, and title and risk of loss for the Merchandise will pass upon Valve's delivery of the Merchandise to a transportation carrier at the designated shipping point. If you pick up the Merchandise from Valve's place of business, title to and risk of loss will pass to you when Merchandise is placed at your disposal.

C. Acceptance/Rejection/Returns

The terms of this Section 3.C do not apply to European Union consumers. You will have a period of thirty (30) days after the date of receipt of any Merchandise to examine the Merchandise to confirm that it conforms to this Agreement and the offer for such Merchandise presented to you at Steam. If the Merchandise does not conform to this Agreement and the offer for such Merchandise presented to you via Steam, you may reject the Merchandise by returning it to Valve (at your expense) along with a copy of the receipt or other proof of purchase. Additional policies and instructions for returning defective merchandise to Valve can be found at http://storehelp.valvesoftware.com. After Valve has received your valid return, Valve will, within a reasonable time and in Valve's sole discretion: repair the Merchandise, replace the Merchandise with an equivalent item, credit to the credit card used to pay for the product an amount equal to the value of the Merchandise (as determined by Valve in its reasonable discretion), or provide another remedy that Valve determines in good faith is appropriate in the circumstances. All claims whether based on contract, negligence, strict liability or otherwise are waived unless made in writing and received by Valve within thirty (30) days after your receipt of Merchandise.

4. BILLING, PAYMENT AND OTHER SUBSCRIPTIONS

Valve offers some Subscriptions for free, and some for a Subscription fee. All fees are stated in U.S. dollars unless otherwise specified.

A. Payment by Credit Card.

When you provide credit card information to Valve, you represent to Valve that you are the authorized user of the credit card and that you authorize Valve to charge your credit card for any Merchandise or Subscription, Steam Wallet funds, or other fees incurred by you. For recurring monthly Subscriptions, each month that you use such Subscription(s), you agree and reaffirm that Valve is authorized to charge your credit card (or your Steam Wallet, if funded) for the Subscription fee. You agree to notify Valve promptly of any changes to your credit card account number, its expiration date and/or your billing address, and you agree to notify Valve promptly if your credit card expires or is canceled for any reason.

B. Charges to Your Credit Card.

ALL STEAM FEES ARE PAYABLE IN ADVANCE AND ARE NOT REFUNDABLE IN WHOLE OR IN PART. Valve reserves the right to change our fees or billing methods at any time and Valve will provide notice of any such change at least thirty (30) days advance. All changes will be posted as amendments to this Agreement or in the Rules of Use (e.g. Steam release notices) and you are responsible for reviewing the billing section of Steam to obtain timely notice of such changes. Your non-cancellation of your Account or an affected Subscription thirty (30) days after posting of the changes on Steam means that you accept such changes. If any change is unacceptable to you, you may cancel your Account or a particular Subscription at any time as described below, but Valve will not refund any fees that may have accrued to your Account before cancellation of your Account or Subscription, and Valve will not prorate fees for any cancellation. If your use of Steam is subject to any type of use or sales tax, then Valve may also charge you for any such taxes, in addition to the Subscription or other fees published in the Rules of Use. The European Union VAT ( “VAT ”) tax amounts collected by Valve reflect VAT due on the value of any Software or Subscription as well as import VAT collected which is to be paid to the tax authorities for the importation of Merchandise.

As the Account holder, you are responsible for all charges incurred, including applicable taxes, and all purchases made by you or anyone that uses your Account, including your family or friends. Information on how to cancel your Account or a particular Subscription can be found at http://www.steampowered.com/. Valve reserves the right to collect fees, surcharges or costs incurred before you cancel your Account or a particular Subscription. In the event that your Account or a particular subscription is terminated or canceled, no refund, including any Subscription fees, will be granted. Any delinquent or unpaid Accounts must be settled before Valve will allow you to register again.

C. Steam Wallet.

ALL STEAM FEES ARE PAYABLE IN ADVANCE AND ARE NOT REFUNDABLE IN WHOLE OR IN PART. Steam may make available an account balance associated with your Account (the “Steam Wallet”). You may place funds in your Steam Wallet up to a maximum amount determined by Valve, by credit card, prepaid card, promotional code, or any other payment method accepted by Steam. You may use Steam Wallet funds to purchase Subscriptions or make transactions within Subscriptions, where Steam Wallet transactions are enabled. Funds added to the Steam Wallet are non-refundable and non-transferable. Steam Wallet funds have no value outside Steam and can only be used to purchase Subscriptions and related content via Steam (including but not limited to games offered on the Steam Store). To the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, Steam Wallet funds that are deemed abandoned or unused by law will not be returned or restored.

When your account uses your Steam Wallet to fund a purchase, you authorize Valve to deduct the amount of the purchase from your Steam Wallet. If you do not have sufficient funds in your Steam Wallet to make a purchase and you have previously entered your credit card information, we may automatically charge your credit card a minimum amount determined by Valve to make the purchase, even if such minimum amount exceeds the cost of your purchase. Any difference between the minimum charge and the cost of the purchase will be credited to your Steam Wallet.

D. Retail Purchase.

Valve may offer or require a Subscription for purchasers of retail packaged product versions or OEM versions of Valve products. The "CD-Key" or "Product Key" accompanying such versions is used to activate your Subscription.

E. Steam Authorized Resellers.

You may purchase a Subscription through an authorized reseller of Valve. The "Product Key" accompanying such purchase will be used to activate your Subscription. If you purchase a Subscription from an authorized reseller of Valve, you agree to direct all questions regarding the Product Key to that reseller.

F. Free Subscriptions.

In some cases, Valve may offer a free Subscription to certain services, software and content. As with all Subscriptions, you are always responsible for any Internet service provider, telephone, and other connection fees that you may incur when using Steam, even when Valve offers a free Subscription.

G. Third Party Sites.

Steam may provide links to other third party sites. Some of these sites may charge separate fees, which are not included in and are in addition to any Subscription or other fees that you may pay to Valve. Steam may also provide access to third-party vendors, who provide content, goods and/or services on Steam or the Internet. Any separate charges or obligations you incur in your dealings with these third parties are your responsibility. Valve makes no representations or warranties, either express or implied, regarding any such third party site.

H. Pricing and Payment for Merchandise.

In addition to the above, the following terms apply to pricing of and payment for Merchandise. The prices for Merchandise displayed on Steam are subject to change at any time without notice. Charges for shipping, handling and tax may not be included in displayed prices for Merchandise but will be displayed during the purchase process, although such displayed prices may not include all taxes, duties, and other fees that you may be obligated to pay to applicable government authorities. Shipping and handling charges displayed on Steam may or may not reflect the actual charges paid by Valve. All war-risk, marine, or other insurance; harbor charges; tolls; whar***e; demurrage; wharf handling; duties, or warehousing charges are excluded from Merchandise prices displayed on Steam and are your responsibility. You may be obligated under applicable local law to pay additional import duties and fees.

You must pay all applicable sales and use taxes, value added taxes and other taxes levied on you by any taxing authority on any Merchandise purchase in any country where such transactions are otherwise subject to tax, regardless of the method of delivery. Any taxes owed by you (i) as a result of purchasing Merchandise or the payment of any fee, (ii) that are required or permitted to be collected from you by Valve under applicable law, and (iii) that are based upon the amounts payable under this Agreement, must be remitted by you to Valve. Failure on Valve's part to invoice you for any such taxes does not relieve you of the liability to pay such taxes. You will promptly reimburse Valve for all taxes or other charges imposed upon Valve by any national, state or municipal government upon the sale, use, production, or transportation of Merchandise.

5. ONLINE CONDUCT, CHEATING AND ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR

You agree that you will be personally responsible for the use of your Account and for all of the communication and activity on Steam that results from use of your Account. Your online conduct and interaction with other subscribers should be guided by common sense and basic etiquette. Specific requirements may also be found in the Steam Online Conduct rules at http://steampowered.com/index....area=online_conduct, (http://steampowered.com/index.php?area=online_conduct,) other Rules of Use, the Subscription Terms, or in terms of use required by third parties who host particular games or other services.

Steam and the Software may include functionality designed to identify software or hardware processes or functionality that may give a player an unfair competitive advantage when playing multiplayer versions of any Software, other Valve products, or modifications thereof ("Cheats"). You agree that you will not create or assist third parties in any way to create Cheats. You agree that you will not directly or indirectly disable, circumvent, or otherwise interfere with the operation of software designed to prevent or report the use of Cheats. You acknowledge and agree that either Valve or any online multiplayer host may refuse to allow you to participate in certain online multiplayer games if you use Cheats in connection with Steam or the Software. Further, you acknowledge and agree that an online multiplayer host may report your use of Cheats to Valve, and Valve may communicate your history of use of Cheats to other online multiplayer hosts for Valve products. Valve may terminate your Account or a particular Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal, constitutes a Cheat, or which otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers. You acknowledge that Valve is not required to provide you notice before terminating your Subscriptions(s) and/or Account, but it may choose to do so.

6. THIRD PARTY CONTENT

In regard to all Subscriptions, Software, and related content that are not authored by Valve, Valve acts merely as an intermediary service provider. Valve does not screen such third party content available on Steam or through other sources. Valve does not assume any responsibility or liability for such third party content.

7. USER GENERATED INFORMATION

"User Generated Information" means any information made available to other users through your use of multi-user features of Steam or to Valve through your use of the Software. User Generated Information may include, but is not limited to, chat, forum posts, screen names, game selections, player performances, usage data, suggestions about Valve products or services, and error notifications. Subject to the Valve privacy policy referenced in Section 1 above, as applicable, you expressly grant Valve the complete and irrevocable right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the User Generated Information and derivative works thereof in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to you, and without any notice or compensation to you of any kind.

8. DEDICATED SERVER

Your Subscription(s) may contain access to the Valve Dedicated Server software. You may use the Valve Dedicated Server software on an unlimited number of computers for the purpose of hosting online multiplayer games of Valve products. If you wish to operate the Valve Dedicated Server software, you will be solely responsible for procuring any Internet access, bandwidth, or hardware for such activities and will bear all costs associated therewith.

9. DISCLAIMERS; LIMITATION OF LIABILITY; NO GUARANTEES

A. DISCLAIMERS.

THE ENTIRE RISK ARISING OUT OF USE OR PERFORMANCE OF STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, AND MERCHANDISE REMAINS WITH YOU, THE USER. VALVE EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS (I) ANY WARRANTY FOR STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, AND THE MERCHANDISE, AND (II) ANY COMMON LAW DUTIES WITH REGARD TO STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, AND THE MERCHANDISE, INCLUDING DUTIES OF LACK OF NEGLIGENCE AND LACK OF WORKMANLIKE EFFORT. STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, THE MERCHANDISE, AND ANY INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN CONNECTION THEREWITH ARE PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" AND "AS AVAILABLE" BASIS, "WITH ALL FAULTS" AND WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NONINFRINGEMENT. ANY WARRANTY AGAINST INFRINGEMENT THAT MAY BE PROVIDED IN SECTION 2-312(3) OF THE UNIFORM COMMERCIAL CODE AND/OR IN ANY OTHER COMPARABLE STATE STATUTE IS EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMED. ALSO, THERE IS NO WARRANTY OF TITLE, INTERFERENCE WITH YOUR ENJOYMENT, OR AUTHORITY IN CONNECTION WITH STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, MERCHANDISE OR INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN CONNECTION THEREWITH. THIS SECTION WILL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW.

B. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY.

NEITHER VALVE, ITS LICENSORS, NOR THEIR AFFILIATES SHALL BE LIABLE IN ANY WAY FOR LOSS OR DAMAGE OF ANY KIND RESULTING FROM THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE STEAM, YOUR ACCOUNT, YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS AND THE SOFTWARE INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, LOSS OF GOODWILL, WORK STOPPAGE, COMPUTER FAILURE OR MALFUNCTION, OR ANY AND ALL OTHER COMMERCIAL DAMAGES OR LOSSES. IN NO EVENT WILL VALVE BE LIABLE FOR ANY INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, SPECIAL, PUNITIVE, EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, OR ANY OTHER DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF OR IN ANY WAY CONNECTED WITH STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, MERCHANDISE THAT YOU ACQUIRE VIA STEAM, ANY INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN CONNECTION THEREWITH, OR THE DELAY OR INABILITY TO USE MERCHANDISE OR ANY INFORMATION, EVEN IN THE EVENT OF FAULT, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), STRICT LIABILITY, BREACH OF CONTRACT, OR BREACH OF VALVE'S WARRANTY AND EVEN IF VALVE HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. THESE LIMITATIONS AND EXCLUSIONS REGARDING DAMAGES APPLY EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS.

IF YOU ARE A RESIDENT OF A EUROPEAN UNION COUNTRY, THE ABOVE PARAGRAPH MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

C. NO GUARANTEES.

VALVE DOES NOT GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS(S).

10. EXCLUSIVE REMEDIES

A. EXCLUSIVE REMEDY -- STEAM AND THE SOFTWARE.

YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR ANY DISPUTE WITH VALVE WITH REGARD TO STEAM OR THE SOFTWARE IS TO DISCONTINUE USE OF STEAM AND CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT. BECAUSE SOME STATES OR JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR THE LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, IN SUCH STATES OR JURISDICTIONS, VALVE, ITS LICENSORS, AND THEIR AFFILIATES LIABILITY SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE FULL EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW.

B. EXCLUSIVE REMEDY--MERCHANDISE.

YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT WITH REGARD TO ANY MERCHANDISE YOU PURCHASE VIA STEAM AS YOUR EXCLUSIVE REMEDY, IN ADDITION TO THE REMEDIES EXPRESSLY SET FORTH IN SECTION 3(C), VALVE MAY INCLUDE IN ITS OPTION THE RIGHT TO PAY TO YOU THE AMOUNT OF DIRECT DAMAGES ACTUALLY INCURRED BY YOU IN REASONABLE RELIANCE ON SUCH MERCHANDISE, AS LONG AS THAT AMOUNT DOES NOT EXCEED THE AMOUNT YOU PAID VALVE FOR THE MERCHANDISE GIVING RISE TO THOSE DAMAGES.

THIS SECTION WILL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW.

11. INDEMNIFICATION

You agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless Valve, its licensors and their affiliates from all liabilities, claims and expenses, including attorneys' fees, that arise from or in connection with breach of this Agreement, use of Steam or any Subscription or any related content, or any User Generated Information, including, but not limited to, the creation, distribution, promotion and use of any Mods, by you or any person(s) using your Account. Valve reserves the right, at its own expense, to assume the exclusive defense and control of any matter otherwise subject to indemnification by you. In that event, you shall have no further obligation to provide indemnification to Valve in that matter. This Section regarding Indemnification shall survive termination of this Agreement.

12. AMENDMENTS TO THIS AGREEMENT

Valve may amend this Agreement at any time in its sole discretion. As a Subscriber, you agree that Valve may amend the terms of this Agreement. If Valve amends the Agreement, such amendment shall be effective thirty (30) days after your receiving notice of the amended Agreement, either via e-mail or as a notification within the Software. You can view the Agreement at any time at http://www.steampowered.com/. Your failure to cancel your Account thirty (30) days after receiving notification of an amended Agreement will mean that you accept all such amendments. If you don't agree to the amendments or to any of the terms in this Agreement, your only remedy is to cancel your Account or a particular Subscription.

13. TERM AND TERMINATION

Either you or Valve has the right to terminate or cancel your Account or a particular Subscription at any time. You understand and agree that the cancellation of your Account or a particular Subscription is your sole right and remedy with respect to any dispute with Valve.

A. Term.

The term of this Agreement (the "Term") will be effective as of the date that you click "I Agree" below, and will continue in effect until otherwise terminated in accordance with this Agreement.

B. Termination by You.

Information on how to cancel your Account or a particular Subscription can be found at http://www.steampowered.com/. Valve reserves the right to collect fees, surcharges or costs incurred prior to the cancellation of your Account or a particular Subscription. In addition, you are responsible for any charges incurred to third-party vendors or content providers before your cancellation. In the event that your Account or a particular subscription is terminated or canceled by you, no refund, including any Subscription fees, will be granted. In the event that your Account or a particular Subscription is terminated or cancelled by Valve for a violation of this Agreement or improper or illegal activity, no refund, including any Subscription fees, will be granted.

C. Termination by Valve.

1. In the case of a recurring payment Subscription (e.g., a monthly subscription), in the event that Valve terminates or cancels your Account or a particular Subscription for convenience, Valve may, but is not obligated to, provide a prorated refund of any prepaid Subscription fees paid to Valve.
2. In the case of a one-time purchase of a product license (e.g., purchase of a single game) from Valve, Valve may choose to terminate or cancel your Subscription in its entirety or may terminate or cancel only a portion of the Subscription (e.g., access to the software via Steam) and Valve may, but is not obligated to, provide access (for a limited period of time) to the download of a stand-alone version of the software and content associated with such one-time purchase.
3. In the case of a free Subscription, Valve may choose to terminate or amend the terms of the Subscription as provided in the "Amendments to this Agreement" section above.

D. Survival of Terms.

Sections 2(D), 2(E), 7, 9, 10, 11, 13(D), 14, and 15 will survive any expiration or termination of this Agreement. Unused funds in your Steam Wallet are not refundable upon expiration or termination.

14. APPLICABLE LAW/JURISDICTION

The terms of this section may not apply to European Union consumers.

You agree that this Agreement shall be deemed to have been made and executed in the State of Washington, and any dispute arising hereunder shall be resolved in accordance with the law of Washington. You agree that any claim asserted in any legal proceeding by you against Valve shall be commenced and maintained exclusively in any state or federal court located in King County, Washington, having subject matter jurisdiction with respect to the dispute between the parties and you hereby consent to the exclusive jurisdiction of such courts. In any dispute arising under this Agreement, the prevailing party will be entitled to attorneys' fees and expenses.

15. MISCELLANEOUS

In the event that any provision of this Agreement shall be held by a court or other tribunal of competent jurisdiction to be unenforceable, such provision will be enforced to the maximum extent permissible and the remaining portions of this Agreement shall remain in full force and effect. This Agreement constitutes and contains the entire agreement between the parties with respect to the subject matter hereof and supersedes any prior oral or written agreements. You agree that this Agreement is not intended to confer and does not confer any rights or remedies upon any person other than the parties to this Agreement.

Valve's obligations are subject to existing laws and legal process and Valve may comply with law enforcement or regulatory requests or requirements notwithstanding any contrary term.

You agree to comply with all applicable import/export laws and regulations of the United States and its governmental and regulatory agencies (including, without limitation, the Bureau of Export Administration and the U.S. Department of Commerce). You agree not to export the Software or allow use of your Account by individuals of any terrorist supporting countries to which encryption exports are at the time of exportation restricted by the Bureau of Export Administration. You represent and warrant that you are not located in, under the control of, or a national or resident of any such prohibited country.

I hereby agree to be bound by the Agreement. I also acknowledge and agree that this Agreement (including the Subscription Terms, Steam Online Conduct rules and other Rules of Use, and Privacy Policy) is the complete and exclusive statement of the agreement between Valve and me, and that the Agreement supersedes any prior or contemporaneous agreement, or other communications, whether oral or written, between Valve and myself.

Gibbage1
03-14-2011, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by jameson2010:
Gibbage the argument is that we are being offered no choice, sign up to this crap or go away. This is being forced on us.

Wow. Didnt know Oleg had you at gunpoint. Sorry to hear that. Good luck!!!

As for monopolizing? Your kidding right? The publishers once monopolized game distribution and raped the developers. Steam allows the developers A CHOICE!!! Its about the developer having a choice. Be forced into low % returns through a box publisher, or publish through clients like Steam, Direct-2-Drive, and about a dozzen other direct download distributers. Where do you get "monopoly" from when Steam had so much compatition?

ElAurens
03-14-2011, 10:36 AM
So, we can buy it from D2D, or Sproket, etc... and play it without the Steam client then?

JG52Uther
03-14-2011, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
So, we can buy it from D2D, or Sproket, etc... and play it without the Steam client then?
The silence is deafening...

jameson2010
03-14-2011, 11:42 AM
Gibbage, you can only play COD with a steam account, even offline. This isn't a monopoly?

Gibbage1
03-14-2011, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by jameson2010:
Gibbage, you can only play COD with a steam account, even offline. This isn't a monopoly?

If Steam charged for this, yes, it would be. Since its a free service, no. The only thing you need to give Steam is an E-mail addy, user name, and password. Your required more info to join this server, and the same for Hyperlobby.

biggs222
03-14-2011, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Your required more info to join this server, and the same for Hyperlobby.

which brings me to the most ironic point... Hyperlobby is completely interchangeable with Steam in this situation...

yet none of them have an issue with Hyperlobby... hmmm

jameson2010
03-14-2011, 01:10 PM
monopoly:
…the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service…
Oxford OED.
Money doesn't have to be invovled apparently.

Heavy_Weather
03-14-2011, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
Gents, I used Steam in the past to play Red Orchestra.

I did not like the disconnects, the glitchy way it worked in general, the fact that it phones home with an excessive amount of personal info, and it's rather odd way of being on even when it was supposed to be off.Perhaps it is better now, but you will have to prove it to me before I put it on my current computer. It was quite difficult to remove from the last computer I had it on as it ends up in a lot of locations in the file system.

My thoughts exactly. I used Steam way back in the Half-Life 2 series. I remember several times not being able to just play the game at times because their servers would be down or acting flakey. They might have changed by now but I'm not just going to take ANYONE'S word on this. Just the fact that we as avid users of flight sims will be playing the game for several hours on end while the whole time your computer/hard drive is connected to some mysterious server is NOT being paranoid to me. I am certainly not going to get into some second-hand debate about this through some worthless forum. To each their own and good luck with the title UBI. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Gibbage1
03-14-2011, 01:38 PM
I guess Microsoft has a monopoly on PC only games then? *Insert sarcasm* BOO Microsoft!!! BOOO!!!!!!! I wont buy any PC games now! Huf huf huf!!! Rable rable rable! */sarcasm*

RSS-Martin
03-14-2011, 01:39 PM
Trolling again? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

carguy_
03-14-2011, 02:12 PM
Gibbage, you`re about the last person we would like to have an all-sided opinion or info. Maybe you need to refrain from posting in this thread.

I`m intersted in many aspects of how deep is this thing actually gonna go into the game.

1. Will I be able to play the game offline when Steam is off (never set on auto start).

2. Will there be any possibility of problems appearing when playing online ie. steam servers down= no online play.

3. Will the game allow 3rd party helping applications such as il2 sticks.

4. Will I be able to install my game in whichever location I choose.

5. How much system memory does Steam exactly take (in windows task manager digits)?

6. Will my game be directly connected to the steam account?

7. Will banning my steam account cause my game not being able to run?

8. Does offilne playing means having a neccessity of being always connected to steam servers.

9. Will my game files be accesible to me as a computer user (changing .ini for example).

10. Does the game allow other types of (3rd party) programs being used to play online.

11. How is the online play gonna be organised (rooms, players, squads).

12. If I lose all my steam passwords due to a fatal computer malfunction, will I be able to regain my installation of the game.


Instead of trolling, someone try to answer those for me.

K_Freddie
03-14-2011, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by biggs222:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Your required more info to join this server, and the same for Hyperlobby.

which brings me to the most ironic point... Hyperlobby is completely interchangeable with Steam in this situation...

yet none of them have an issue with Hyperlobby... hmmm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You are aware that you do not need hyperlobby (or other 3rd party software) to play IL2 or other games, online.....and also, of course, that HL (and others) were developed to make online play easier, with no restrictions.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

horseback
03-14-2011, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by carguy_:
Gibbage, you`re about the last person we would like to have an all-sided opinion or info. Maybe you need to refrain from posting in this thread.

I`m intersted in many aspects of how deep is this thing actually gonna go into the game.

1. Will I be able to play the game offline when Steam is off (never set on auto start).

2. Will there be any possibility of problems appearing when playing online ie. steam servers down= no online play.

3. Will the game allow 3rd party helping applications such as il2 sticks.

4. Will I be able to install my game in whichever location I choose.

5. How much system memory does Steam exactly take (in windows task manager digits)?

6. Will my game be directly connected to the steam account?

7. Will banning my steam account cause my game not being able to run?

8. Does offilne playing means having a neccessity of being always connected to steam servers.

9. Will my game files be accesible to me as a computer user (changing .ini for example).

10. Does the game allow other types of (3rd party) programs being used to play online.

11. How is the online play gonna be organised (rooms, players, squads).

12. If I lose all my steam passwords due to a fatal computer malfunction, will I be able to regain my installation of the game.


Instead of trolling, someone try to answer those for me. I can answer at least one question: I have Call Of Duty Modern Warfare 2 on my Steam account, and I play it on three different computers (living room, bedroom, and my 'travel' rig) with some regularity. I installed the game with a disk in only the bedroom computer, but I have played it in 'offline mode' on all three when (a) my modem was turned off to keep automatic downloads from various services from diverting too many of my resources from the game, (b) when the hotel's internet connection was futzed or non-existant, or (c) just because I could.

As for some of the other questions, I believe that there are several people on these forums who have Il-2 '46 on their Steam accounts. Maybe some of them could testify whether they were able to add the current patches or use the third party apps.

cheers

horseback

Statler86
03-14-2011, 03:37 PM
Most of these "legitimate concerns" have been answered numerous times already. As far as Steam creating a monopoly, please explain to me how a third party distribution tool creates a monopoly when it is the developers choice to even use it or not. 1C/Oleg is forcing you to use Steam, not Steam. Anyone trying to say Steam is like Microsoft is ignorant.

Rjel
03-14-2011, 03:48 PM
Sure is a lot of name calling going on here and in the other Steam threads. Some useful information will be lost to us all if they get locked. All anyone is looking for is solid info to base their purchase on. We can't all agree apparently, so please try and keep this discussion going so we can all learn what is right for each of us.

Gibbage1
03-14-2011, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by carguy_:
Gibbage, you`re about the last person we would like to have an all-sided opinion or info. Maybe you need to refrain from posting in this thread.


Try reading the Steam Answers thread? Also, why pick just me out? Am I not entitled to my opinion?

Chivas
03-14-2011, 03:58 PM
YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE ONLINE TO PLAY STEAM GAMES OFFLINE.

ElAurens
03-14-2011, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by biggs222:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Your required more info to join this server, and the same for Hyperlobby.

which brings me to the most ironic point... Hyperlobby is completely interchangeable with Steam in this situation...

yet none of them have an issue with Hyperlobby... hmmm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hyperlobby doesn't phone home, nor does it "own" the game that I paid for. Hyperlobby cannot revoke my ability to play the game for any reason, unlike Steam. Hyperlobby doesn't have pop ups when I log off.

I could go on, but you won't listen in any case.

How much is your salary from Valve anyway?

M_Gunz
03-14-2011, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by JG52Uther:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
So, we can buy it from D2D, or Sproket, etc... and play it without the Steam client then?
The silence is deafening... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That has already been Officially answered. Answer is that you HAVE to have the Steam account even if you buy the DVD, even if you play offline. The Steam account is REQUIRED to play the game at all.

This is something the jolly-alongs do not repeat, possibly because it applies to CoD and is not generic fluff.

I haven't seen it stated officially -anywhere- that the required Steam account will be or remain free. I am sure that right here I will be assured that it is free and will remain so by dips with no such actual knowledge.

So there is another question for UBI to answer Officially. Is the Steam Account free and will it remain so?

M_Gunz
03-14-2011, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by biggs222:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Your required more info to join this server, and the same for Hyperlobby.

which brings me to the most ironic point... Hyperlobby is completely interchangeable with Steam in this situation...

yet none of them have an issue with Hyperlobby... hmmm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. Hyperlobby is NOT REQUIRED. That is a big difference, if you bother to think.

Chivas
03-14-2011, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Uther:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
So, we can buy it from D2D, or Sproket, etc... and play it without the Steam client then?
The silence is deafening... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That has already been Officially answered. Answer is that you HAVE to have the Steam account even if you buy the DVD, even if you play offline. The Steam account is REQUIRED to play the game at all.

This is something the jolly-alongs do not repeat, possibly because it applies to CoD and is not generic fluff.

I haven't seen it stated officially -anywhere- that the required Steam account will be or remain free. I am sure that right here I will be assured that it is free and will remain so by dips with no such actual knowledge.

So there is another question for UBI to answer Officially. Is the Steam Account free and will it remain so? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE ONLINE TO PLAY STEAM GAMES OFFLINE.

Steam is only used to join games online. Even then I'm not so sure you will need Steam if you know the IP address of the individual servers. Time will tell on that point.

M_Gunz
03-14-2011, 04:57 PM
And you have checked that this will be true in the case of CoD?

ElAurens
03-14-2011, 05:01 PM
Chivas,

You will still need to have Steam installed on your computer to play the game at all.

This is the problem.

Chivas
03-14-2011, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
And you have checked that this will be true in the case of CoD?

The announcement states that Steam will be required to play ONLINE. It says nothing about going thru Steam to play offline. The two games I've purchaced thru steam do not require that I be online to play them.

JG52Uther
03-14-2011, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
And you have checked that this will be true in the case of CoD?
Of course he hasn't, even UBI ain't saying!
So UBI,with your new game thats out in 10 days:

1:How do I join an online war in CoD with steam?

2:What is the main game lobby text chat like in steam?

3:Will you guarantee that I can play my paid for copy of CoD online if steam has problems?

M_Gunz
03-14-2011, 05:22 PM
All we're getting since the little bit on that blog is a bunch of baffle-gab doubletalk, aka misinformation from idiots and trolls expressly trying to bury all legitimate questions on the issue with BS.

RS_Deacon
03-14-2011, 06:09 PM
YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE ONLINE TO PLAY STEAM GAMES OFFLINE

The big question I have is why MUST I have steam installed, if I do not want it, to join a server via direct IP?

It's a function of choice. As an end user, a client, the corporate hats at 1C or whomever made this decision is taking away my choice. You can say that there will be 2 buyers to my one choice of not to buy. That's great for Steam and 1C. How many of those 2 will still be here 10 years from now, as I've been using IL-2 both online and off for the past 10? That will remain to be seen. There isn't anyone on these boards who can give an answer to that ... it's for the future to tell.

Right or wrong, the taking of choice is what has so many up in arms. Freedom ain't free, but it's for me :-)

Chivas
03-14-2011, 07:59 PM
I stand corrected. I went back and reread the DRM posts and it appears that you may need Steam to play off-line. Sorry for any confusion and misinformation I've spread. I suppose the initial verification of our copy's must be thru Steam. All very confusing, and it must have been a last minute decision by the developers/publishers to off load work that had to be done before release.

M_Gunz
03-14-2011, 08:52 PM
Taking some time to actually read the UBI site blog: (http://il-2-sturmovik.ubi.com/cliffs-of-dovers/blog/uk/?p=1162)

IL2: Cliffs of Dovers DRM solution
Posted on 7 March 2011 by admin


Helmut says:
7 March 2011 at 11:06

Will Steam be required for strictly offline use too?
Reply

*
admin says:
8 March 2011 at 09:01

Yes.



Owl says:
8 March 2011 at 03:50

I think you probably meant that a Steam account will be required to play online. Is that right? If I only play offline, single-player missions do I still need a Steam account?
Reply

*
admin says:
8 March 2011 at 08:56

Yes, you will need a Steam account even if your play offline.

Gibbage1
03-14-2011, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by RS_Deacon:

The big question I have is why MUST I have steam installed, if I do not want it, to join a server via direct IP?


DRM. Honestly, Steams DRM solution is a lot better then Ubi's since there is an offline mode. Being online is not required to play any Steam game.

carguy_
03-15-2011, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by Chivas:
I stand corrected. I went back and reread the DRM posts and it appears that you may need Steam to play off-line. Sorry for any confusion and misinformation I've spread. I suppose the initial verification of our copy's must be thru Steam. All very confusing, and it must have been a last minute decision by the developers/publishers to off load work that had to be done before release.

Well yes, that is what some of us are aiming at. Does anywone know how it is going to be with IL2:Cod ? We have 3 threads already on the same issue and none of them answered the main questions. Somewhere a guy says that some games have trouble with modding, some don`t, some need steam application to be running in the background all the time, some don`t. You choose to answer me based on other steam games, which is irrelevant to the issue.

I`m pretty sure that many people actually are able to let steam on their pcs for this game alone though we would like to know what we`re doing first. From the looks of other steam users trying to "help", no one knows exactly how does steam - CoD implementation actually function.

M_Gunz
03-15-2011, 04:44 AM
Originally posted by carguy_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
I stand corrected. I went back and reread the DRM posts and it appears that you may need Steam to play off-line. Sorry for any confusion and misinformation I've spread. I suppose the initial verification of our copy's must be thru Steam. All very confusing, and it must have been a last minute decision by the developers/publishers to off load work that had to be done before release.

Well yes, that is what some of us are aiming at. Does anywone know how it is going to be with IL2:Cod ? We have 3 threads already on the same issue and none of them answered the main questions. Somewhere a guy says that some games have trouble with modding, some don`t, some need steam application to be running in the background all the time, some don`t. You choose to answer me based on other steam games, which is irrelevant to the issue.

I`m pretty sure that many people actually are able to let steam on their pcs for this game alone though we would like to know what we`re doing first. From the looks of other steam users trying to "help", no one knows exactly how does steam - CoD implementation actually function. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1

and if you dare to ask questions then you are a knuckle-dragging Steam-Hater.

For breakfast there's Eggs, bacon, Cliffs of Dover and Steam. Dare I say that I don't want Steam? The Vikings will come! The Vikings will bring disinformation to bury my questions under Steam, Steam, Steam, Steam, Steam, Steam, Steam, Steam!

All must LOVE The Steam! Bow down and Worship The Great Steam! Steam will pwn gaming! Steam Heil! Steam Heil! Steam Heil!

RSS-Martin
03-15-2011, 05:36 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Gimpymoo
03-15-2011, 06:13 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
LOVE The Steam! Bow down and Worship The Great Steam! Steam will pwn gaming! Steam Heil! Steam Heil! Steam Heil!

That is the spirit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Long live Steam.

In all honesty, like it or not, Steam has done more to help PC gaming than anything else in the last few years when everyone else has been trying to bury it.

Feathered_IV
03-15-2011, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
and if you dare to ask questions then you are a knuckle-dragging Steam-Hater.

For breakfast there's Eggs, bacon, Cliffs of Dover and Steam. Dare I say that I don't want Steam? The Vikings will come! The Vikings will bring disinformation to bury my questions under Steam, Steam, Steam, Steam, Steam, Steam, Steam, Steam!

All must LOVE The Steam! Bow down and Worship The Great Steam! Steam will pwn gaming! Steam Heil! Steam Heil! Steam Heil!

I really struggled with this post and didn't know how to respond. I actually facepalmed several times as I tried to make a rational response. In the end I just took a screenshot of it.

FlatSpinMan
03-15-2011, 07:54 AM
Oh for crying out loud, <span class="ev_code_RED">calm down and be civil</span> . The behaviour in this thread is just pathetic. This comment is aimed at all participants. Next person to throw their toys out of the cot gets banned for not knowing how to conduct themselves in a reasonable manner. Disagree? Sure. Ask questions? Sure, but keep the tone reasonable and non-threatening.

I also want to point out the date of joining this forum and post count are not indicators of veracity,sagacity or any other form of moral or intellectual superiority. It merely means you post a lot here. That is all.



Can we agree to the following summary of this thread?

-At this stage no-one here knows for certain anything about how CoD will run in Steam.

-Some people have posted saying how other games run in Steam. This is a constructive approach in that it is at least an attempt at adding information to the discussion. However, it may not actually help as the game may work differently. We don't know about this yet.

-Steam seems to be required to play CoD, even offline, even if you have bought the disc separately.

FlatSpinMan
03-15-2011, 08:17 AM
I was going to go through this thread in my free time and edit out all the ones without any actual information on the topic. After about 2 I gave up as it was a hopeless task - I would have had to delete all but about three posts.

The thread can stay as there are a few nuggets of information in here, but otherwise refer to this thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8071032709/m/6201081519) for more information.