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Schwarz.13
03-14-2008, 09:12 AM
Taken from 'In Pursuit':

"The Sliceback is an evil manoeuvre, a dirty trick to pull on a bandit who's comfortably on your long six o'clock. It comprises a gentle zoom with an aggressive skid near the top followed by a nose-low opposite rudder reversal to bring you near head-on with your highly rattled pursuer. You will need quite a bit of separation for this move since you burn a lot of
energy in the reversal don't try it if the bandit is anywhere near guns range. It is best
employed by a fighter with high wingloading and considerable rudder authority, in a situation
where a flat or oblique turn would most likely give the enemy a full planform snapshot. The
manoeuvre requires a good deal of rudder-aileron coordination and should not be attempted
without first having perfected the technique. The "trick" is to mask the airspeed decrease
with the low speed skid the follow-up rudder reversal usually comes as a nasty shock.
The sliceback is useful in a standard dogfight as well. If you're energy-rich but
angles-poor in a turning fight, the reflexive behaviour is to honk back on the stick and bleed
energy to stay with the bandit. This leads without fault to black-out from excessive gravity loads, to loss of visual contact and sacrifice of the energy advantage. A more cautious pilot will normally zoom in the bandit's rear hemisphere and roll his lift vector onto him for a high yo-yo. While this is certainly good in most cases, it's time-consuming and thus allows the bandit a respite during which angles are lost. The outcome is generally a nose-to-nose fight where either or both will succumb to head-on shots or collision. In this situation it is far better to use the vertical and a bit of rudder work. E.g. in a left turning fight where you have an energy advantage on a bandit who's breaking hard to
left, you nose up and skid right (top rudder) with a bit of left aileron to counter the roll, then rudder hard to left, nose low while adding a bit of right aileron. This is a sort of vertical lag displacement sliceback which doesn't cost you much energy and which gives you a low yo-yo snapshot at the bandit (who sustains his left turn). Follow it up with another high sliceback if he keeps up his turn, and with a steep barrel roll (canopy to bandit) if he reverses."

1.) Can YOU do it?

2.) Have you perfected it?

3.) Can you use it successfully online/offline?

4.) Got track?

qlc1
03-14-2008, 05:57 PM
i seen something on discovery channel,where an sbd driver shot down 3 zeros and wounded a forth,by doing just what you descibed.
he said that with all the tight turns,his gunner could do nothing more than hang on tight.
and vomit
wish i could remember that piolets name

Lurch1962
03-14-2008, 06:56 PM
"Swede" Vejtesa. There's a 2-part Youtube video of the Discover Channel Dogfight episode about that conbat. Part 1...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEnDjwXnj3Y

HayateAce
03-14-2008, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by Lurch1962:
"Swede" Vejtesa. There's a 2-part Youtube video of the Discover Channel Dogfight episode about that conbat. Part 1...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEnDjwXnj3Y

Pwned.

qlc1
03-15-2008, 01:48 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lurch1962:
"Swede" Vejtesa. There's a 2-part Youtube video of the Discover Channel Dogfight episode about that conbat. Part 1...

yeah thats him. wat a work horse.
he just kept at it.never give up,never seen his gunner vomit so much.....
wat does pwned mean?

Deedsundone
03-15-2008, 02:32 AM
Originally posted by qlc1:
wat does pwned mean?


From Wikipedia

Pwn (/oʊn/, /poʊn/, /pəʔˈoʊn/, /pɔːn/, /piˈoʊn/, /pwəʔˈn̩/) is a leetspeak slang term that implies domination or humiliation of a rival, used primarily in the Internet gaming culture to taunt an opponent that has just been soundly defeated. Past tense is sometimes spelled pwnt (pronounced with a t sound) or pwned (with the standard d sound). Examples include "pwnage" or "you just got pwned". It can also be used, especially by non-gamers, in the context of getting "pwned" by The Man

qlc1
03-15-2008, 02:33 AM
Originally posted by qlc1:
i seen something on discovery channel,where an sbd driver shot down 3 zeros and wounded a forth,by doing just what you descibed.
he said that with all the tight turns,his gunner could do nothing more than hang on tight.
and vomit
wish i could remember that piolets name
btw no i cant do it...wish i could

WTE_Ibis
03-15-2008, 02:55 AM
Ok, I know I'm in trouble here but bloody h&ll this show gives me the shlts.


I believe it, a very, very skillful pilot with a little bit of luck ( as in all dogfights) wins against the odds.
I take my hat off to Swede, he must have had the brown pants on for sure, poor bugger, but overcame all odds to survive, I applaud his skill and courage.
My gripe is with the voice over, the narrator does a disservice to this fine pilot by trying to give everyone a wank, not to mention the "Swede is here (pregnant pause) the Zeros are here." Vomit!
Then makes it worse with this garbage:

He (Swede) is leading eight American aircraft and ALL fail to follow his orders??

Swede pulls a high G 180 degree turn with ease, "He (the Zero) had leveled off and was already coming back firing his twenties at me."
So, seems right to me.

But later: "Vejtesa pulls the SVD over in an excruciating 9G return reversal" ok fine but then:
The Japanese struggle to match Vejtesa' maneuvers----" the Zeros can't handle the erratic moves, the 9G turn would rip the wings off the Zero" so?

WOTT?? A Zero can't slow and turn inside an SBD, gimme a break.

Honestly, something should be done about these programs, they make a laughing stock of gallant and brave men who gave their lives, surely not for this pre-teen garbage.
It's an insult to the brave.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

About the original post:
I wish I was that good but alas that trick (with any degree of success) is beyond me.

.

qlc1
03-15-2008, 03:16 AM
ok i just watched the vidio and im not sure if its the same manuver your talking about.
by zoom,do you mean climb?

qlc1
03-15-2008, 03:21 AM
Originally posted by WTE_Ibis:
WOTT?? A Zero can't slow and turn inside an SBD, gimme a break.
.
they can,but near an enemy carrier,it wouldnt be too smart to slow down.
you know why

Choctaw111
03-15-2008, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by WTE_Ibis:
Ok, I know I'm in trouble here but bloody h&ll this show gives me the shlts.


I believe it, a very, very skillful pilot with a little bit of luck ( as in all dogfights) wins against the odds.
I take my hat off to Swede, he must have had the brown pants on for sure, poor bugger, but overcame all odds to survive, I applaud his skill and courage.
My gripe is with the voice over, the narrator does a disservice to this fine pilot by trying to give everyone a wank, not to mention the "Swede is here (pregnant pause) the Zeros are here." Vomit!
Then makes it worse with this garbage:

He (Swede) is leading eight American aircraft and ALL fail to follow his orders??

Swede pulls a high G 180 degree turn with ease, "He (the Zero) had leveled off and was already coming back firing his twenties at me."
So, seems right to me.

But later: "Vejtesa pulls the SVD over in an excruciating 9G return reversal" ok fine but then:
The Japanese struggle to match Vejtesa' maneuvers----" the Zeros can't handle the erratic moves, the 9G turn would rip the wings off the Zero" so?

WOTT?? A Zero can't slow and turn inside an SBD, gimme a break.

Honestly, something should be done about these programs, they make a laughing stock of gallant and brave men who gave their lives, surely not for this pre-teen garbage.
It's an insult to the brave.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

About the original post:
I wish I was that good but alas that trick (with any degree of success) is beyond me.

.

Give the show a break. It has been discussed MANY times in these forums how inaccurate the "Dogfights" series is and the terrible way they word certain things. There are a few things I don't agree about the show either. You just have to remember that not everyone that watches the show is an "expert" in Air to Air combat. I think it is a good show with regard to getting new people interested in this kind of thing. Having this "inaccurate" show on TV certainly has helped (I believe) Il2 sales, and BoB when it is finally finished.

WTE_Ibis
03-15-2008, 05:55 PM
Sorry if I was a little strong there but why can't they just be a little less dramatic in the voiceover, it ruins the program IMO and for many others I'm sure.
I bet Swede winced when he saw the final product on his TV.


.

crucislancer
03-15-2008, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by Schwarz.13:
Taken from 'In Pursuit':

"The Sliceback is an evil manoeuvre, a dirty trick to pull on a bandit who's comfortably on your long six o'clock. It comprises a gentle zoom with an aggressive skid near the top followed by a nose-low opposite rudder reversal to bring you near head-on with your highly rattled pursuer. You will need quite a bit of separation for this move since you burn a lot of
energy in the reversal don't try it if the bandit is anywhere near guns range. It is best
employed by a fighter with high wingloading and considerable rudder authority, in a situation
where a flat or oblique turn would most likely give the enemy a full planform snapshot. The
manoeuvre requires a good deal of rudder-aileron coordination and should not be attempted
without first having perfected the technique. The "trick" is to mask the airspeed decrease
with the low speed skid the follow-up rudder reversal usually comes as a nasty shock.
The sliceback is useful in a standard dogfight as well. If you're energy-rich but
angles-poor in a turning fight, the reflexive behaviour is to honk back on the stick and bleed
energy to stay with the bandit. This leads without fault to black-out from excessive gravity loads, to loss of visual contact and sacrifice of the energy advantage. A more cautious pilot will normally zoom in the bandit's rear hemisphere and roll his lift vector onto him for a high yo-yo. While this is certainly good in most cases, it's time-consuming and thus allows the bandit a respite during which angles are lost. The outcome is generally a nose-to-nose fight where either or both will succumb to head-on shots or collision. In this situation it is far better to use the vertical and a bit of rudder work. E.g. in a left turning fight where you have an energy advantage on a bandit who's breaking hard to
left, you nose up and skid right (top rudder) with a bit of left aileron to counter the roll, then rudder hard to left, nose low while adding a bit of right aileron. This is a sort of vertical lag displacement sliceback which doesn't cost you much energy and which gives you a low yo-yo snapshot at the bandit (who sustains his left turn). Follow it up with another high sliceback if he keeps up his turn, and with a steep barrel roll (canopy to bandit) if he reverses."

1.) Can YOU do it?

2.) Have you perfected it?

3.) Can you use it successfully online/offline?

4.) Got track?

I've tried it, never could do it right. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Schwarz.13
03-17-2008, 05:45 AM
I am very intrigued by the Sliceback.

Perhaps it is very hard to pull-off successfully and most people would just prefer to High Yo-Yo a bandit?

I might try to learn this "evil manoeuvre" anyway...

JG14_Josf
03-17-2008, 07:08 AM
The maneuver described makes no sense. Either the yaw input is meant to scrub off energy or the yaw input is meant to not scrub off energy. Yaw input can't do both as the words in the description suggest.

In the first case the idea is to turn a tail chase into a head-on shot opportunity by deception?

The pilot following is supposed to be fooled as the target ahead pitches up and slows down surprisingly fast, reverses (with yaw?), and the target becomes aggressive at high twelve on the formerly attacking plane?

How is that reversal completed quicker with yaw? It sounds like the defending plane is going too fast to reverse before the attacking plane can turn inside and get a shot so the defender pitches up and hammerheads while he has the room to reverse with a slow speed hammerhead and the yaw component merely aids in slowing down quickly, added to the zoom climb deceleration. It sounds like the hammerhead is accelerated around (but must done this way at slow speed) by first yawing the nose up just before the stall and then reversing the yaw while the rudder remains effective. That could, if I have this understood, increase the rate of rotation on the yaw axis during a hammer head. That then assumes the plane to be going straight down and picking up enough speed to get the elevator to raise the nose into a head-on pass. That assumes too that the plane in pursuit is staying low to set up a lagging zoom rather than cutting off the zoom climb with his own lead pursuit zoom climb.

So...the guy ahead is going fast and thinks he has room to reverse before the guy behind closed into shooting range. The guy ahead decelerates as fast as possible to get at a speed where a reversal can be accomplished as quick as possible before the guy behind is in range.

That would not work for planes in the game that are modeled heavy. Planes in the game that are modeled light can turn around very quickly on the lift vector so why go through all the shenanigans?

I mean; in the game a light plane being attacked from behind, with enough room to reverse, can merely turn around by pulling the stick. A heavy plane being attacked from behind does not have enough room to turn around in the same amount of room. It merely takes a whole lot more room to turn around in a heavy plane. The game makes heavy planes respond very slowly to elevator changes. By the time the heavy plane is at or near black-out the light plane already passed by with a snap shot or is saddled up in pure pursuit right behind the heavy plane.

There is no way to yaw a plane around into a reversal at any speed above stall without requiring half the map to accomplish a yaw reversal. If a heavy plane is going to try that hammerhead slice back way up then down thing it will drop like a stone and take 2000 meters before the elevator can do anything. That would leave the guy behind with a very good snap shot passing by fast or an opportunity to saddle up in the nose dive before the heavy plane can recover.

Who wrote that quote? I think I've read a similar piece.

Then the maneuver is said to be used instead of a lag displacement roll while a target is turning left while the attacker is behind and turning left. This time the yaw up and yaw down (with aileron canceling the roll caused by the yaw) doesn't cost much energy'.

That makes no sense. Yaw causes a plane to fly sideways through the air. How does that not (in the game it doesn't cost much perhaps) cost much energy?

If the guy attacking is blacking out then the plane is faster than the black-out corner speed so slowing down could increase the turn rate and decrease the turn radius. If, on the other hand, the attacking plane is right at the black out corner speed then slowing down would decrease turn rate and increase turn radius. If the plane and the pilot are at corner speed (black out corner speed) the plane can't turn any tighter so that leaves only the option of overshooting if the defending plane is turning better and going slower (lower corner velocity).

Slowing down against a better turning opponent, even not much', is going to give everything to the opponent.

If the description of this left turning slice back yaw the nose up then down without losing much energy maneuver is using geometry to get a shot at the better turning, lower corner speed, left turning opponent, then that would be a lag displacement roll or barrel roll attack because the lag displacement roll and barrel roll attack use geometry to fly around the outside of the slower and tighter turning defender because the attacker is faster and by that measure it will travel farther so....the idea is to rap that longer path geometrically around the shorter path made by the tighter turning slower defender.

If someone does manufacture a track file showing this slice back thing please post it somewhere for download.

Capt.LoneRanger
03-17-2008, 07:56 AM
If it just wasn't such a bad Hollywood-style...

Well, the maneuver itself was a success, but even with my little dogfight-knowledge, I'd say it was a bad move. By pulling a 9G turn, he basically hit the brakes in mid air, exposing his full profile to enemy fire. But as you'll notice in the show, even from the second wave nobody even shot at him - his wingmates were the bait for his successfull maneuver.

Besides that, it should be noted, that Swede was not credited for 3 victories in the first place. He stated one kill and 2 probables during the fight, but was credited for none, just like any other pilot in that battle. Lateron, though, this outcome was "upgraded" by the CO of the VS-5, hence earning him the NavyCross.

Even worse: Swede himself stated in his autobiography, that the initial wave shot down 4 of the 8 planes in his flight, the others participated in the lengthy dogfight. Later on he states, that he had downed 7 Japanese planes overall in that whole operation: 2 dive bombers and 5 torpedo aircraft.

I also like the comment about the Zero that intended to ram him in the head on. Considering how many head-on collisions I had without either one even wanting to, that was one hell of a judgement after 25 Minutes of fierce dogfight.

Schwarz.13
03-17-2008, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by JG14_Josf:
Who wrote that quote? I think I've read a similar piece.

It's from 'In Pursuit' by Johan Kylander - available here (http://web.comhem.se/%7Eu85627360/inpursuit.pdf)


If someone does manufacture a track file showing this slice back thing please post it somewhere for download.

+1

Col.BBQ
03-18-2008, 09:01 PM
1.) Yes
2.) Yes
3.) Yes
4.) Hell, no, like I'm thinking of recording this while a bandit is chasing me.

Ratsack
03-19-2008, 07:02 AM
Originally posted by JG14_Josf:
The maneuver described makes no sense...

I agree. It sounds like one of the many variations of the 'please kill me' maneuver.

Ratsack

M_Gunz
03-19-2008, 08:56 AM
This sliceback sounds like burning off loads of speed in a skid to one side followed by a
hard turn to the other. It's nothing that "Swede" in the Dauntless is shown doing.

Oh yes, the famous high-G sustaining Dauntless, secret weapon on the USN!

Why do they say 9 G turns? Swede doesn't but that's what modern jet pilots do so........

Sorry but the Dauntless never had the power to do as the video says, they've hyped a Real
Hero into fuel for unreal expectations. And of course any sim where you can't do what they
*said* must be wrong.

Fights like that do prove something though -- It's the Pilot, Not the Plane!

M_Gunz
03-19-2008, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by qlc1:
ok i just watched the vidio and im not sure if its the same manuver your talking about.
by zoom,do you mean climb?

A zoom climb is any unsustainable climb. If you're climbing and slowing down, you're in a zoom.

Zooms are one way to slow down to best turn speed, make the turn and then dive to recover speed.
You end up faster coming out.

Just a guess, the sliceback is a shot at pulling a reversal in a way that the enemy won't be able
to predict, causing doubt and interrupting his decision-train. It is not a good energy move in
a plane with less than high power to weight thrust capabilities.

Be very careful in what maneuvers you take from the jet fighters, the faster they go the more
thrust they have while in props the opposite is true.

buzzsaw1939
03-19-2008, 10:14 AM
Even the name sliceback bothers me, how about a whooptiedo, or fricafrack? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

DrHerb
03-19-2008, 10:34 AM
im still trying to fine tune the "schlikenschloker" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Schwarz.13
03-19-2008, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
This sliceback sounds like burning off loads of speed in a skid to one side followed by a
hard turn to the other. It's nothing that "Swede" in the Dauntless is shown doing.

Oh yes, the famous high-G sustaining Dauntless, secret weapon on the USN!

Why do they say 9 G turns? Swede doesn't but that's what modern jet pilots do so........

Sorry but the Dauntless never had the power to do as the video says, they've hyped a Real
Hero into fuel for unreal expectations. And of course any sim where you can't do what they
*said* must be wrong.

Fights like that do prove something though -- It's the Pilot, Not the Plane!

Just where exactly did this whole 'Swede' Vejtesa Dogfights episode come from?! I didn't even mention that silly program and i'm pretty sure there is no example of a 'Sliceback' in that!

My curiousity about this manoeuvre was aroused the 1st time i read 'In Pursuit' and only when i went back to re-read about it did i question it. To me it sounds like some tricky variation of a hammerhead, but before the stall. I wanted to know more about it that's why i posted!


Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Be very careful in what maneuvers you take from the jet fighters, the faster they go the more
thrust they have while in props the opposite is true.

Well, Johan Kylander wrote 'In Pursuit' after playing WWII Online and Warbirds so he definately wasn't referring to a jet manoeuvre.


Originally posted by Col.BBQ:
1.) Yes
2.) Yes
3.) Yes
4.) Hell, no, like I'm thinking of recording this while a bandit is chasing me.

Why don't we all just ask Col.BBQ - he seems to know exactly what it is, has mastered it and uses it successfully online/offline. Only problem is, he hasn't mastered the start recording button http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

qlc1
03-20-2008, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by qlc1:
ok i just watched the vidio and im not sure if its the same manuver your talking about.
by zoom,do you mean climb?

A zoom climb is any unsustainable climb. If you're climbing and slowing down, you're in a zoom.

Zooms are one way to slow down to best turn speed, make the turn and then dive to recover speed.
You end up faster coming out.

Just a guess, the sliceback is a shot at pulling a reversal in a way that the enemy won't be able
to predict, causing doubt and interrupting his decision-train. It is not a good energy move in
a plane with less than high power to weight thrust capabilities.

Be very careful in what maneuvers you take from the jet fighters, the faster they go the more
thrust they have while in props the opposite is true. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
ah ok.
i stand correced for mentioning swedes vidio.wrong manouver.
the manouver at hand sounds something like what i do against ground targets.
dunno if im right or not,but it works for 2 quick runs on a target and a quick gettaway.
i seen it watching vidios of an a10 warthog,they called it a warthog stomp.
i do my first run as normal,dropping bombs,or rockets,or strafe,then when i am out of most aaa range,i "zoom" and before i get anywhere near stalling speed,hard rudder.when she starts to twist around,back throttle off a bit to bring the nose down.when i see the ground,i pull up a bit,a little jink here and there,and walla.i am looking at the target and ready to have another crack at them.
never tryed this against air born planes.
is very good when you see planes on the runway on your first pass,just whip around,and shoot up the leader,making their runway useless.
works for me

M_Gunz
03-20-2008, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by qlc1:
the manouver at hand sounds something like what i do against ground targets.
dunno if im right or not,but it works for 2 quick runs on a target and a quick gettaway.
i seen it watching vidios of an a10 warthog,they called it a warthog stomp.
i do my first run as normal,dropping bombs,or rockets,or strafe,then when i am out of most aaa range,i "zoom" and before i get anywhere near stalling speed,hard rudder.when she starts to twist around,back throttle off a bit to bring the nose down.

That's a wingover of sorts and nicely done.

This slice is supposed to involve sideslipping before the turn that there's some kind of
surprise because you come around in a tight radius the other guy was not expecting if I read
the description correctly.

I don't do that either, it's wasteful of speed. Immelman would be better wouldn't it?


when i see the ground,i pull up a bit,a little jink here and there,and walla.i am looking at the target and ready to have another crack at them.
never tryed this against air born planes.

Nothing beats moving targets for fun. Work on bombers first and the High and Low Side Attacks,
standard WWII interceptor tactic was to yoyo the much slower moving bombers. The EAW CD has
an 8MB html Online Flight School Manual where it's all laid out and printable.

qlc1
03-24-2008, 05:04 PM
check this out.
found it posted in "battle 360"thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdCm5z2RpI8&eurl=http://...owthread.php?t=16941 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdCm5z2RpI8&eurl=http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php?t=16941)
could this be the "slice back"?

M_Gunz
03-24-2008, 08:02 PM
It's close. By the text in post one: The "trick" is to mask the airspeed decrease.
Described: It comprises a gentle zoom with an aggressive skid near the top followed by a
nose-low opposite rudder reversal to bring you near head-on with your highly rattled pursuer.

In the video he says he pulled hard zoom right up to stall to slow down and then he did that
skidding yaw-turn that really is risking flight departure (a trip to spin city) but he worked
it though what they show is not head-on shots.

There's a Dogfights episode where they tell about Wernor Voss in a Fokker Triplane against
7+ SE-5A's. That plane was made to yaw turn as well as climb. He could have escaped but he
was doing so well until he got wounded. It was a terrible loss to the GAS.

kaelys
03-24-2008, 11:47 PM
Forgive me if I am mis-understanding what you mean by 'The Sliceback', but based on what I am reading it sounds like an original German Immelmann(sp?). I'm not talking about what we now call an Immelmann, which can be quickly described as a half-loop, but what the Germans called an Immelmann during the Great War.

Pull the aircraft into a very steep climb, almost perpendicular to the ground, then rudder over and come straight back down. Like a Hammerhead Stall without (but close to) the stall. One could then either pull level having reversed direction or roll before leveling out and be going in whatever direction you choose.

Btw (and totally off subject), but does anyone know if there will ever by a WWI version of this sim?

Ratsack
03-25-2008, 12:06 AM
It just sounds to me like 'target blows speed in frantic attempt to get angles, while attacker gently moves graticle over helplessly wallowing target and squeezes.'

I have not ever played WWII Online, but I have read Kylander's e-book. I thought it contained some good stuff, and some stuff that was a bit, well, silly. This move and his description of it fall into the 'silly' category, in my view.

cheers,
Ratsack

M_Gunz
03-25-2008, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by kaelys:
Btw (and totally off subject), but does anyone know if there will ever by a WWI version of this sim?

We asked but it didn't come off. Gennadich worked with Maddox Games and had one started but
they decided to not use the IL2 code engine. Knights of the Sky may still happen, the main
page is still up and there's a forum.

main page translated to English. (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.gennadich.com/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=6&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dgennadich%2Bknights%2Bsky%26hl%3Den%2 6sa%3DG%26pwst%3D1)

There's a lot of us from the Red Baron Community in serious -want- of this one!

qlc1
03-25-2008, 04:05 PM
Btw (and totally off subject), but does anyone know if there will ever by a WWI version of this sim?[/QUOTE]
flatspinman made a ww1 campaine using older ww2 bi planes.i have 1 mission and its fun.
also try blue max,i think thats the name of another ww1 campaine.i foget who made that one,but it too is fun.

mortoma
03-25-2008, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by Deedsundone:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by qlc1:
wat does pwned mean?


From Wikipedia

Pwn (/oʊn/, /poʊn/, /pəʔˈoʊn/, /pɔːn/, /piˈoʊn/, /pwəʔˈn̩/) is a leetspeak slang term that implies domination or humiliation of a rival, used primarily in the Internet gaming culture to taunt an opponent that has just been soundly defeated. Past tense is sometimes spelled pwnt (pronounced with a t sound) or pwned (with the standard d sound). Examples include "pwnage" or "you just got pwned". It can also be used, especially by non-gamers, in the context of getting "pwned" by The Man </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Wikipedia fails to mention a very simple thing. And that is the word "pwned" came from the word "owned".
I used to hear or see on the internet people saying they "owned" someone else, meaning they dominated or embarrassed, humiliated them. I think that at some point someone typo'd and hit their 'P' key instead of their 'O' key and it caught on for some strange reason.

M_Gunz
03-25-2008, 06:00 PM
what makes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif is : + p

it's just so 1337

Ratsack
03-25-2008, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Deedsundone:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by qlc1:
wat does pwned mean?


From Wikipedia

Pwn (/oʊn/, /poʊn/, /pəʔˈoʊn/, /pɔːn/, /piˈoʊn/, /pwəʔˈn̩/) is a leetspeak slang term that implies domination or humiliation of a rival, used primarily in the Internet gaming culture to taunt an opponent that has just been soundly defeated. Past tense is sometimes spelled pwnt (pronounced with a t sound) or pwned (with the standard d sound). Examples include "pwnage" or "you just got pwned". It can also be used, especially by non-gamers, in the context of getting "pwned" by The Man </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Wikipedia fails to mention a very simple thing. And that is the word "pwned" came from the word "owned".
I used to hear or see on the internet people saying they "owned" someone else, meaning they dominated or embarrassed, humiliated them. I think that at some point someone typo'd and hit their 'P' key instead of their 'O' key and it caught on for some strange reason. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't it come from a typo in a game? As in a server message:

'Black_Cat7 has been pwned by Agador!'

Wasn't it a Warcraft game or something? Anyway, it was a typo in the programing of the server messages and it caught on.

Ratsack

Viper2005_
03-25-2008, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by Ratsack:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG14_Josf:
The maneuver described makes no sense...

I agree. It sounds like one of the many variations of the 'please kill me' maneuver.

Ratsack </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
+1

Why not just half loop and then roll off the top if you want to force the head-on?

If you're energy rich and angles poor why not just use a high yo-yo?

M_Gunz
03-26-2008, 02:43 AM
Originally posted by Viper2005_:
Why not just half loop and then roll off the top if you want to force the head-on?

If you're energy rich and angles poor why not just use a high yo-yo?

I'd use the first against a distantly trailing nme but would he be surprised?

I'd use the latter when I'm coming up behind an nme and closing.

Viper2005_
03-26-2008, 03:29 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Viper2005_:
Why not just half loop and then roll off the top if you want to force the head-on?

If you're energy rich and angles poor why not just use a high yo-yo?

I'd use the first against a distantly trailing nme but would he be surprised? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I'd rather the bandit was dead than surprised. If I mess up a more complex manoeuvre and spin off the top then the bandit might well be surprised, but the chances are that he'd still take the resulting easy shot and punish me for my hubris.

Originally posted by M_Gunz:
I'd use the latter when I'm coming up behind an nme and closing. Exactly - you've explicitly stated that you're energy rich, and the fact that you're making any manoeuvre at all implies that you're angles poor.

gdfo
03-26-2008, 03:38 AM
Can a Plane in IL 4.8 do the manuever that Candelaria did?

M_Gunz
03-26-2008, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by Viper2005_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Viper2005_:
Why not just half loop and then roll off the top if you want to force the head-on?

If you're energy rich and angles poor why not just use a high yo-yo?

I'd use the first against a distantly trailing nme but would he be surprised? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I'd rather the bandit was dead than surprised. If I mess up a more complex manoeuvre and spin off the top then the bandit might well be surprised, but the chances are that he'd still take the resulting easy shot and punish me for my hubris. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, you have to make the tricky turn. It might be easier in some sims than IL2 4.08 too!
Even if you make it you've still blown your speed and may be easy pickings for another nme.
I only pointed out the surprised bit because that's what the inventor says the whole point
is, to rattle a pursuer. I don't like it much and doubt it would surprise me unless maybe
the guy doing it was only a dot in poor graphics that I never saw turn.

It's definitely a sim-move.


Originally posted by M_Gunz:
I'd use the latter when I'm coming up behind an nme and closing. Exactly - you've explicitly stated that you're energy rich, and the fact that you're making any manoeuvre at all implies that you're angles poor.[/QUOTE]

Yeah but I don't yoyo a target behind me or one that I'm making a guns pass on, LOL!

M_Gunz
03-26-2008, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by gdfo:
Can a Plane in IL 4.8 do the manuever that Candelaria did?

4.08?
With a load of skill you can! Remember you have no seat of pants feel and if you stall while
not coordinated that you will spin.