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looma_krappy
07-08-2008, 04:36 AM
I'm such a noob... what exactly is the Fw-190 bar? the only time I feel brave enough to get into one of those things is when its an open pit server, otherwise I'd take a 109

looma_krappy
07-08-2008, 04:36 AM
I'm such a noob... what exactly is the Fw-190 bar? the only time I feel brave enough to get into one of those things is when its an open pit server, otherwise I'd take a 109

Xiolablu3
07-08-2008, 04:47 AM
Its the bit above the cushiony soft rim.

If you lok at the glass in front of you, its the frame around that glass that obscures a bit of your gunsight.

LEXX_Luthor
07-08-2008, 04:49 AM
Its gone. The Fw-190 Bar on the forum was closed by the serial moderators because of excessive flame wars.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Wellcome to Forgotten Board

mortoma
07-08-2008, 11:25 AM
If you look at pictures of of 190 cockpits taken from the pilot' perspective, not only was the "bar " not in the way, you could see the cowling!!! Fat chance you'll ever see the top of the cowling in this sim!!!

stalkervision
07-08-2008, 11:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
If you look at pictures of of 190 cockpits taken from the pilot' perspective, not only was the "bar " not in the way, you could see the cowling!!! Fat chance you'll ever see the top of the cowling in this sim!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

WTE_Galway
07-08-2008, 11:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by looma_krappy:
I'm such a noob... what exactly is the Fw-190 bar? the only time I feel brave enough to get into one of those things is when its an open pit server, otherwise I'd take a 109 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Simply put ... when Oleg modeled the FW190 and put the pilots view at what he believed to be the correct position for the pilots head the bottom frame of the front cockpit blocks a bit of the view, making lead deflections shots harder.

1. Many believe based on photos and historical evidence from pilots this frame did not block the view.

2. One must assume the actual aircraft is modeled correctly in terms of the size and position of the frame.

3. This means either the historical evidence is wrong or something is out of whack in the Oleg fw190

Hence 5 million threads over 5 or 6 years with all sorts of theories ranging from refractive glass through to pilots being further forward to explain the discrepancy.

Every once and a while a newbie stumbles on the topic and brings it back up but it is impossible to discuss the matter without rehashing old arguments and starting yet another flame war so most threads on the topic get locked.

looma_krappy
07-09-2008, 04:18 AM
Ok, thanks

It has just been bothering me for awhile and I could hardly find any source or picture of this infamous metal frame, but only of the mods to remove it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Bewolf
07-09-2008, 04:26 AM
IL2 is also the only simulation that ever had it in it. Actually, IL2 is the only source I've ever seen or heared about this problem. Support of it is only founded by faith in Maddox, nothing else.

As Oleg was and still is a trendsetter in accuracy, this has some weight and that bar, purely construction wise, probably was there. Some other factors, as was mentioned before, most probably played a role. Both refraction and nose down attitude of the original FW come to mind, their lack creating a problem in IL2 that was not there historically.

Just to give a short overview of the situation at hand and the ongoing debate over it.

DmdSeeker
07-09-2008, 12:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bewolf:
IL2 is also the only simulation that ever had it in it. Actually, IL2 is the only source I've ever seen or heared about this problem. Support of it is only founded by faith in Maddox, nothing else.

As Oleg was and still is a trendsetter in accuracy, this has some weight and that bar, purely construction wise, probably was there. Some other factors, as was mentioned before, most probably played a role. Both refraction and nose down attitude of the original FW come to mind, their lack creating a problem in IL2 that was not there historically.

Just to give a short overview of the situation at hand and the ongoing debate over it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not strictly correct.

Although I haven't flown AH for quite some years, there was certainly griping about the Fw forward view when I did fly it; just as there was in Airwarrior before it (any old Warbirders here? Was it a problem there too?)

In fact, there's been three constants in every flight sim I've ever flown:

1) The P51 is under modelled.
2) The Spitfire is over modelled
3) The Fw forward view is porked.

Strange that there should be an international conspiracy of flight sim programmers stretching through decades.

Bewolf
07-09-2008, 12:12 PM
Now that is really odd, as I have been flying those sims, too, and never had a problem in regards to a "bar" obstructing the Revi. Unluckily my google search for examples didn't bring anything up for these two games. Maybe you could, as to prove your point, help out a bit?

I nevertheless found these two little pics during this exact search, which I found interesting in regards to the line of argument.

from the combat flight simulator:

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/screenshots/2/56582/combatfl_thumb003.jpg

from the book P-51 Mustang vs FW 190, Europe 1943-45 by Martin Bowman:

http://www.downloadmunkey.net/images/od01.jpg

Bremspropeller
07-09-2008, 01:31 PM
Come and meet us tonight at your local Fw 190-bar....

http://www.get-loud-or-go-home.de/bilder/gogogirl.jpg

DKoor
07-09-2008, 03:02 PM
I'd take two for out, thanks.

stalkervision
07-09-2008, 03:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bewolf:
IL2 is also the only simulation that ever had it in it. Actually, IL2 is the only source I've ever seen or heared about this problem. Support of it is only founded by faith in Maddox, nothing else.

As Oleg was and still is a trendsetter in accuracy, this has some weight and that bar, purely construction wise, probably was there. Some other factors, as was mentioned before, most probably played a role. Both refraction and nose down attitude of the original FW come to mind, their lack creating a problem in IL2 that was not there historically.

Just to give a short overview of the situation at hand and the ongoing debate over it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Fw-190 pit in Janes ww 2 fighters has no bar and that cockpit for the 190 is one of the best I have ever seen and used. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

what were you thinking oleg buddy? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tGix23kpQQ

DmdSeeker
07-09-2008, 04:07 PM
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,169769.120.html

Here's Crump on the AH FW model:

"Nobody is claiming you are but the fact remains you can place a coin of the nose of the FW190 against the cockpit and see it. In AH, the bottom of the "frame shape" prevents this from happening. It's not the same FOV."

(I don't remember the AH boards having that horrible green colour before)

And of course AW is long dead and gone, and it's message boards with it.

And if you look on the AH boards, you'll see complaints of:

1) The P51 is under modelled.
2) The Spitfire is over modelled
3) The Fw forward view is porked.


Who'd have thunk it?