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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 07:35 PM
Wow, in reading this forum I feel even more lost than before /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Anyway, I am completely (completely!) new to flight sims. My main computing interest lies in strategy and sports gaming, with some sim exposure such as SimCity 4. I am telling you this in the hope that some may forgive my newbie questions.

My most important question concerns this - How do I successfully land a plane ?! I have mastered the easy does it lowering the plane to the ground, flaps and gear down, level, lined up, speed good and then . . . . BANG - it topples over /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

I am still reading and watching the training videos (great stuff!), but I have only landed a plane once. I realize much more practice is necessary (only had the game about a week), but any pointers would help. For instance, could someone recommend a plane that is easier to land. Also, should I be holding my joystick once I touch the ground (is torque a concern)? Also, should I be level to the ground or slightly pointing the nose upwards upon contact?

I think I understand about downloading missions off the Net. You put them in your sub-folders under the game directory and access them in Full Mission Mode ?

This is a great sim flight game. It is especially fun with the Force Feedback Microsoft joystick that I picked-up with it. I wished I had more time lately to practice, but perhaps I can accelerate the learning curve with some tips from some experienced players.

P.S. Can one download additional planes for IL-2 Forgotten Battles?

Thanks so much for any tips you can spare.

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 07:35 PM
Wow, in reading this forum I feel even more lost than before /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Anyway, I am completely (completely!) new to flight sims. My main computing interest lies in strategy and sports gaming, with some sim exposure such as SimCity 4. I am telling you this in the hope that some may forgive my newbie questions.

My most important question concerns this - How do I successfully land a plane ?! I have mastered the easy does it lowering the plane to the ground, flaps and gear down, level, lined up, speed good and then . . . . BANG - it topples over /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

I am still reading and watching the training videos (great stuff!), but I have only landed a plane once. I realize much more practice is necessary (only had the game about a week), but any pointers would help. For instance, could someone recommend a plane that is easier to land. Also, should I be holding my joystick once I touch the ground (is torque a concern)? Also, should I be level to the ground or slightly pointing the nose upwards upon contact?

I think I understand about downloading missions off the Net. You put them in your sub-folders under the game directory and access them in Full Mission Mode ?

This is a great sim flight game. It is especially fun with the Force Feedback Microsoft joystick that I picked-up with it. I wished I had more time lately to practice, but perhaps I can accelerate the learning curve with some tips from some experienced players.

P.S. Can one download additional planes for IL-2 Forgotten Battles?

Thanks so much for any tips you can spare.

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 08:19 PM
Mark, welcome to the forum and to FB.
First, I'll point you to the Mudmovers web site, if you haven't visited it already. It's got lots of tutorials, explainations etc. to help the new guys with the rather steep learning curve.

http://www.mudmovers.com/

Michapma is also working on an Il-2 guide, which can be found here:

http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/

Next, here's a link to some landing advice I wrote a while back. I'll warn you ahead of time, I'm long-winded.

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zltds

As far as aircraft to practice landing with, the Il-2 itself is a good choice. It's not a hot-rod, but it's got docile stall characteristics, and a wide, robust landing gear.
Aircraft will be added to FB, but the patch 1.1b is only for fixing flight models, sounds, etc. for existing aircraft. Check the development updates section on the home page to see work in progress on future aircraft.
Good luck, be patient learning, and hope you enjoy this thing as much as the rest of us.

Blotto

"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter craft, no matter how technically advanced." - A. Galland

"Look, do you want the jets, or would you rather I slap the props back on?" - W. Messerschmitt

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 08:26 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how many experienced pilots simply will overlook a post like this and not at least offer a few words of encouragement or help. What, you all started as Aces, cmon.

Mark, I am no Ace but I can try to help you. If you have the takeoff down pat and are just having trouble landing it wont be long before you have them both perfected.

You never said whether you were flying in cockpit or outside. On your instrument panel you should see a gauge that will have a 0 at the nine oclock position and an arrow pointing to the zero. On a climb or a descent the pointer will move above and below the 0. When on an approach you need to accomplish two things, gradually reduce your altitude and your airspeed in order to land. Maintaining a good rate of descent is critical, too fast and you slam into the runway, too slow and you stall, then slam into the runway. Coordinating your rate of descent and airspeed is the trick.

Get lined up on your next approach and pick a point on the runway about 1/4 of the way down. Keep your approach speed and rate of decsent nice and smooth. Keep looking at your target and when you know you have the runway made bring the throttle all the way to idle and hold the plane off with a little bit of nose up flair. If you flair too high you will stall the wing and crash, so be smooth.

Use the speed bar at the lower left corner of the screen for your airspeed and altitude readings in combo with the variometer.

Then practice, practice, practice.

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 08:26 PM
MarkOHearn,

The P-39N1 is easy to land. Set up your approach with a descent angle that maintains 180-200kph with landing flaps and gear down - 100 prop setting and near idle. Just before you hit the runway pull back on the stick slightly (this is called flaring) and fly just above and parallel to the runway. You will gradually lose speed and quit flying and start rolling. It also helps to raise flaps when you're flying just above the ground - that settles you fast.
Practice the descent, flare and fly just above the runway without landing to get the timing down. Then learn touch and goes - where you land raise flaps, add power and take off again without stopping.
After a while you'll be dreaming about this stuff. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Are you flying Forgotten Battles patched or unpatched?

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Message Edited on 08/13/0312:29PM by Bun-Bun1953

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 08:28 PM
Your right, it just takes practice. I am sure there will be disagreement on this but these are my suggestions. Pick a plane with tail dragger landing gear; i.e., like the Il-2 or FW-190 and most of the others, rather than a plane with tricycle landing gear; i.e., like the P-39 or Me-262. This is simply because the vast majority of WWII planes were taildraggers so you should first learn them. Pick a plane with a relatively wide wheelbase (like the FW-190) rather than a plane with a narrow wheelbase (like the Me-109). Rule of thumb: pick an aircraft whose wheels retract inward toward the fuselage rather than outward toward the wingtips. Il-2's wheels retract straight back but it has a fairly wide wheelbase. The reason for this is obvious: The narrow wheelbase aircraft groundloop far too easily. (This was a definite problem for the German's with their 109s in real life.) Overall, you could do worse than the Il-2 as a plane to learn to take off and land in. It's no dogfighter but it is tough and steady. Read the info from the disc on your particular plane and it will give you good info on stall speed etc.

There is no one thing that is so difficult about landing. The difficulty is in the coordination of all of the various factors; i.e., speed, altitude. attitude, direction etc. Practice will give you a feel for it. As for your description of the aircraft toppling over, you may be applying too much break too early. With taildraggers, you have that huge snout of a nose sticking up in your face so you can't see where you are going when all three wheels are on the ground and the tendency is to want to stop as quickly as possible before you run into something thus the temptation to break too early. I allow nature to slow me substantially before I apply any break and then I apply only the smallest amount, just tapping the "B" really, until I am almost completely stopped. Should you hold the joystick once you are on the ground? I say yes. Always maintain control. Torque is a concern but slight rudder control ought to control torque. A good pilot "flares" immediately prior to touchdown; i.e., raises the nose. The idea is that you are just over stall speed and the raising of the nose further reduces speed to stall speed or below and your plane is in the correct attitude to make contact with the runway; i.e., your tail is down so you can make a three point landing. I find this to be very difficult in that it is easy to misjudge and therefore to gain altitude and that is the last thing you want to do. I would begin by simply getting your two front wheels down and reducing speed until the tail falls of its own accord. Once you have that down, you can proceed to the trickier three point landings.

I know not what course others may choose, but as for me, give me computer games or give me television!

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 08:29 PM
Your timing is unfortunate/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
The landing procedure may have changed with the patch so we'll have to check it out for sure for the finer points.
But the general idea is:
-Watch your airspeed
Don't let it drop to the point where you stall.
Don't land too fast.
Do a couple of simulated low speed stalls at altitude, flaps at landing to see the stall speed.
-Lower the a/c slowly through the last few meters so as not to damage anything of course but to avoid jumping up again as well.
This can lead to a crash since your speed will lower and have you down hard.
-Online play involves a lot of landing and is a good training ground.
It would get boring to practice landing otherwise.


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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 08:34 PM
Easiest way to learn to land is to get on comms and have someone take the time to walk you thru landing while you are actually doing it.

If you still want to do it all by your self I would say do this.
Glide in your plane, once you see the airfield only use your throttle if you losing too much altitude.

Use your flaps to slow your plane..ie 1 stage flaps (combat)at a distance to begin decent, then 2 stages of flaps (landing) as you approach the strip. Gear down, and remember to keep your nose slightly up not level with the airfield.
We sometimes say to look at the opposite end of the runway when landing .

Come in slow and once your on the runway dont hold the brakes, tap then several times to slow your plane, if you slam the brakes and hold them it can topple your plane.

If you bounce you plane on hitting the run way lightly it will bounce and you can still land it, if you bounce too hard it is probably because you came in too fast or you dropped to the runway to fast.
What you want to remember at first if GLIDE the plane keep everything smooth.
As you increase in skills you will land faster and easier and with a technique that is all yours, no more long gliding.



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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 08:34 PM
Apologies, I spoke too soon. There are good guys out there willing to help!!!!!!!!!

"God never sleeps'
and every dog has it's day."

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 09:17 PM
Ya gotta keep the faith THUD /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 09:30 PM
Mark,

Welcome to the community! We've got a good bunch of guys here, so you've come to the right place.

For landing, you simply have to practice. Lots. Then some more. And when you've thought you've done it enough, do it even more.

I'm not joking.

When I first showed up here (way back when IL2 first shipped) I was not new to flight sims at all, but it was a real eye-opener. Everybody told me "Keep playing and it will just click". Didn't make much sense to me at first, until last night when I landed my wounded 109E (she was shot up and missing her right landing gear). I managed to put her down without dying or having her erupt on the strip.

So, keep at it and you'll see, things do just happen over time.

Ronnie

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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 09:36 PM
like everyone else says, practice, practice, practice!

Try to at least keep the nose level until you slow down enough to not lift off the ground, then pull back on the stick and apply the brakes slowly to get you to a stop. Fly about 10 km/h above the stalling (or falling like a brick) speed of the plane of your choice, and just gently bring it in.

Spets

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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 11:02 PM
Every pilot can always use, Practice, practice, practice, practice!!!

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 11:07 PM
Thanks for all the tips. Very nice community exists on this forum. One final question (for now at least), do many folks play at GameSpy or at Ubi?

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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 11:35 PM
Mark, key concept:

<font size=3>Throttle controls altitude and pitch controls speed.</font>

i.e don't fly your plane to the ground, settle at a good speed, 240kph or so, about 100m above and 2km from the runway. The longer you line-up the easier it is. Flaps should be fully down and gear locked.

As you get closer to the threshold what you're trying to do is pass over the threshold at about 180kph at about 5-10m altitude. (slightly higher for heavier birds like the Jug and the 190, a lot lower for the lightweights like the I-153)

To do this, throw your instinct out the window, i.e. don't try to control where you're going by using the stick, instead use the throttle. If your plane appears to be sinking to fast and about to land short, don't pull on the stick, add throttle. If it looks like you're never going to land and just stay afloat a few meters off the runway forever, then pull back on the throttle. Easy does it and with some practice you'll land them all.

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XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 12:58 AM
MarkOHearn wrote:
- Thanks for all the tips. Very nice community exists
- on this forum. One final question (for now at
- least), do many folks play at GameSpy or at Ubi?

Well, not too many people are on Ubi (around 60 or 70 usually) and almost none on Gamespy.

I would suggest Hyperlobby. It's a free program that lets you play a number of flightsims. I've seen up to 500 people on at one time, and I've heard it actually has less lag than programs like ubi. Here's the site:

http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/index.php

Have fun flying /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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