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LightRey
08-19-2011, 02:59 PM
Well, I wanted to post this sooner, but I really thought it was best to wait until most of the gamescom hype was over.

Anyways, for a while there was something that was a little odd about this sequence. At the beginning of the game they try to access the memory where Ezio hides the apple, but for some reason the sequence doesn't seem to be about that at all. Rather, it takes place years later when he kills Cesare.

Then there's the fact that when you finish sequence 9, the memory where you see Ezio hiding the apple is listed after this memory, while they usually seem to be listed chronologically.

These things were kinda bugging me, but eventually I came up with the following.
After defeating Cesare in Rome, when he's captured by Fabio Orsini, Ezio uses the apple to determine whether Cesare really was going to escape or not (note: I found it somewhat strange that we didn't get to see what Ezio saw). Well, I think that's basically what the first memory of sequence 9 is, not that specific look into the apple, but rather when/right before Ezio locks away the apple, he looks into the future (or whatever it really is that the apple does) to see what exactly he'll do with Cesare and that is what we're seeing in that memory.

This would explain the glitchyness of the memory. I mean, yes, Ezio was remembering the events of the first vault during that event, but he remembers stuff during other memories all the time, why should it lead to problems this time? Well, because it's unstable to begin with, because it's something that he was going to do at that point, so there's another actual memory of it recorded later in his DNA and on top of that he's actually having a vision of these events, instead of actually being there.

naran6142
08-19-2011, 03:14 PM
that actually makes sense

but ezio stops looking into the apple says some stuff to leo and then the next mission starts. so it would make more sense if he looked into the apple and then the stuff with ceasar started.

and the thing that really annoyed me about that whole memory inside of a memory stuff is that there was actually a small flash back in the game, when ezio sees the theif and remembers that he was at the villa

but anyways your idea make sense cuz it also kinda explains the part right after you kill ceasar. theres all that orangey animus effect with ceasar talking and then it zooms out to ezio placing the apple in the vault. i always wondered about that part so your idea make it make more sense

so i guess im saying that i agree

LightRey
08-19-2011, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by naran6142:
that actually makes sense

but ezio stops looking into the apple says some stuff to leo and then the next mission starts. so it would make more sense if he looked into the apple and then the stuff with ceasar started.

and the thing that really annoyed me about that whole memory inside of a memory stuff is that there was actually a small flash back in the game, when ezio sees the theif and remembers that he was at the villa

but anyways your idea make sense cuz it also kinda explains the part right after you kill ceasar. theres all that orangey animus effect with ceasar talking and then it zooms out to ezio placing the apple in the vault. i always wondered about that part so your idea make it make more sense

so i guess im saying that i agree
Hehe thanks, I've been thinking about this for a while. :P

The thing is that if I'm right, it would mean that you can actually look into the future (or maybe a possible one) using the apple, which has long been suggested from many stories within the AC universe, but this would then basically be confirmation.

sassinscreed
08-19-2011, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
Well, I wanted to post this sooner, but I really thought it was best to wait until most of the gamescom hype was over.

Anyways, for a while there was something that was a little odd about this sequence. At the beginning of the game they try to access the memory where Ezio hides the apple, but for some reason the sequence doesn't seem to be about that at all. Rather, it takes place years later when he kills Cesare.

Then there's the fact that when you finish sequence 9, the memory where you see Ezio hiding the apple is listed after this memory, while they usually seem to be listed chronologically.

These things were kinda bugging me, but eventually I came up with the following.
After defeating Cesare in Rome, when he's captured by Fabio Orsini, Ezio uses the apple to determine whether Cesare really was going to escape or not (note: I found it somewhat strange that we didn't get to see what Ezio saw). Well, I think that's basically what the first memory of sequence 9 is, not that specific look into the apple, but rather when/right before Ezio locks away the apple, he looks into the future (or whatever it really is that the apple does) to see what exactly he'll do with Cesare and that is what we're seeing in that memory.

This would explain the glitchyness of the memory. I mean, yes, Ezio was remembering the events of the first vault during that event, but he remembers stuff during other memories all the time, why should it lead to problems this time? Well, because it's unstable to begin with, because it's something that he was going to do at that point, so there's another actual memory of it recorded later in his DNA and on top of that he's actually having a vision of these events, instead of actually being there.

would you like that ac:b ends without you get to kill cesare?

LightRey
08-19-2011, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by sassinscreed:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
Well, I wanted to post this sooner, but I really thought it was best to wait until most of the gamescom hype was over.

Anyways, for a while there was something that was a little odd about this sequence. At the beginning of the game they try to access the memory where Ezio hides the apple, but for some reason the sequence doesn't seem to be about that at all. Rather, it takes place years later when he kills Cesare.

Then there's the fact that when you finish sequence 9, the memory where you see Ezio hiding the apple is listed after this memory, while they usually seem to be listed chronologically.

These things were kinda bugging me, but eventually I came up with the following.
After defeating Cesare in Rome, when he's captured by Fabio Orsini, Ezio uses the apple to determine whether Cesare really was going to escape or not (note: I found it somewhat strange that we didn't get to see what Ezio saw). Well, I think that's basically what the first memory of sequence 9 is, not that specific look into the apple, but rather when/right before Ezio locks away the apple, he looks into the future (or whatever it really is that the apple does) to see what exactly he'll do with Cesare and that is what we're seeing in that memory.

This would explain the glitchyness of the memory. I mean, yes, Ezio was remembering the events of the first vault during that event, but he remembers stuff during other memories all the time, why should it lead to problems this time? Well, because it's unstable to begin with, because it's something that he was going to do at that point, so there's another actual memory of it recorded later in his DNA and on top of that he's actually having a vision of these events, instead of actually being there.

would you like that ac:b ends without you get to kill cesare? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, I guess you could see it as reliving 2 of Ezio's memories at the same time, which would mean that technically you get to kill Cesare at the end.

naran6142
08-19-2011, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by naran6142:
that actually makes sense

but ezio stops looking into the apple says some stuff to leo and then the next mission starts. so it would make more sense if he looked into the apple and then the stuff with ceasar started.

and the thing that really annoyed me about that whole memory inside of a memory stuff is that there was actually a small flash back in the game, when ezio sees the theif and remembers that he was at the villa

but anyways your idea make sense cuz it also kinda explains the part right after you kill ceasar. theres all that orangey animus effect with ceasar talking and then it zooms out to ezio placing the apple in the vault. i always wondered about that part so your idea make it make more sense

so i guess im saying that i agree
Hehe thanks, I've been thinking about this for a while. :P

The thing is that if I'm right, it would mean that you can actually look into the future (or maybe a possible one) using the apple, which has long been suggested from many stories within the AC universe, but this would then basically be confirmation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah i had always assumed that TWCB could see into the future cuz their hologram projection had actually responded to things that ezio said.

and with the idea of using statistic to predict the future, well TWCB were able to predict desmonds name so what kind of statistic from 1000s of years ago could predict something that desmond parent could have pulled out of a hat or something.

you get what i mean, ubi might as well say that TWCB could straight up predict the future or else they have to come up with a way to actually predict the future

LightRey
08-19-2011, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by naran6142:
yeah i had always assumed that TWCB could see into the future cuz their hologram projection had actually responded to things that ezio said.

and with the idea of using statistic to predict the future, well TWCB were able to predict desmonds name so what kind of statistic from 1000s of years ago could predict something that desmond parent could have pulled out of a hat or something.

you get what i mean, ubi might as well say that TWCB could straight up predict the future or else they have to come up with a way to actually predict the future
Well I guess that's about whether you're on the side of a deterministic universe or not.

JJTHoukes
08-19-2011, 03:51 PM
This makes a lot of sense, and I will now consider this the chronological order. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

"To plant a seed" also makes much more sense now.

And why would Ezio not have the apple while he's at Vianna otherwise? Because he already hid it.

LightRey
08-19-2011, 04:02 PM
Tbh I'm kinda proud of thinking of this theory. I feel like I've solved some complex mathematical problem (and yes, in my world that feels good).

twenty_glyphs
08-19-2011, 04:12 PM
I've been wanting to post on this for a while, but have been trying to get my thoughts in order on it, so thanks for bringing this up.

At one time I thought maybe the whole Sequence 9 was a vision of the future that Ezio saw in the Apple. I don't think that anymore because it seems like the Apple merely gives glimpses of the future, not entire story sequences to live out. Now I'm wondering if it involves some kind of repressed memory because you see the same orange Animus background that you see during the Christina missions. Also the orange, ghost-like figures in Cesare's speech at the end is similar to the model of Ezio and Christina running through the orange Animus background when loading a repressed Christina memory for the first time.

And Ezio does seem to be remembering the Vault when he looks at the Sun the first time you see Sequence 9 at the beginning of the game. Perhaps that short, corrupted sequence is the vision that Ezio sees in the Apple years earlier. But I'm still wondering why Rebecca thinks Ezio hid the Apple in 1507 when it was clearly earlier (the novel indicates it happened sometime in the first half of 1505, for what that's worth).

Also mixed up in this is why Ezio's 1506 memories are locked until they become available in the Da Vinci Disappearance DLC. The 1506 memories are listed as "Restored Memory" and were either repaired by Rebecca during your time in Monterrigioni, or somehow accessed after Desmond passed out at the end of Brotherhood. When accessed after the game's ending, you get to the memory marker and see the Animus world glitch out and hear dialogue from the first memory of the Restored Sequence. William M. says that Ezio seems to be remembering something from 1506. Then it's in this Sequence when Ezio confirms the Apple is already "put to rest".

There is another mystery that may be related to this. We don't know much about the Animus other than Desmond's experiences, but it seems like it's supposed to be normal to just choose a time period/memory to go to and simply view it. But when Abstergo tries to view Alta´r's memory of seeing the Apple's map and when the Assassins try to get Desmond to view the memory of the Apple being hidden, they glitch out and Desmond gets sent back to an earlier, more stable memory. This wasn't relevant in AC2 because they were purposely having Desmond live Ezio's entire life.

Lucy says in the first game that there's too much "psychological trauma" and she can't anchor Desmond to the memory. In one of Desmond's conversations with Rebecca in Brotherhood, he remarks that the disrupted memory is getting clearer. Rebecca responds, "The sequence is repairing itself, as if we're helping you work through psychological trauma." My question is, what is the psychological trauma? Is there something about these memories involving the Apple that's causing too much psychological trauma and knocking Desmond back to a more stable memory? Or does Desmond himself have some sort of psychological trauma that is preventing him from seeing these memories without synchronizing with his ancestors more? Is there any chance that he already had some sort of traumatic experience with an Apple of Eden before the events of the first game and doesn't remember it?

None of these theories gives me a satisfying answer to why you can only see the memory of Ezio hiding the Apple after playing the Cesare assassination that happened later. Another thing to notice is that when you first start to see the Apple being hidden, the world is still orange and glitchy. As soon as Ezio puts the Apple down on the pedestal in Juno's Temple, it seems like energy goes out from it and into the Temple itself. When this starts to happen, the memory suddenly becomes clear and focused.

There does seem to be something important about a memory inside a memory, or competing memories like the pregnant Subject 15. I don't think it's because of an Animus inside an Animus, but there's something there. I don't think they just had this all happen for no reason. But they had better address it in a major way in Revelations, or else they're really going to leave us hanging.

LightRey
08-19-2011, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by twenty_glyphs:
I've been wanting to post on this for a while, but have been trying to get my thoughts in order on it, so thanks for bringing this up.

At one time I thought maybe the whole Sequence 9 was a vision of the future that Ezio saw in the Apple. I don't think that anymore because it seems like the Apple merely gives glimpses of the future, not entire story sequences to live out. Now I'm wondering if it involves some kind of repressed memory because you see the same orange Animus background that you see during the Christina missions. Also the orange, ghost-like figures in Cesare's speech at the end is similar to the model of Ezio and Christina running through the orange Animus background when loading a repressed Christina memory for the first time.

And Ezio does seem to be remembering the Vault when he looks at the Sun the first time you see Sequence 9 at the beginning of the game. Perhaps that short, corrupted sequence is the vision that Ezio sees in the Apple years earlier. But I'm still wondering why Rebecca thinks Ezio hid the Apple in 1507 when it was clearly earlier (the novel indicates it happened sometime in the first half of 1505, for what that's worth).

Also mixed up in this is why Ezio's 1506 memories are locked until they become available in the Da Vinci Disappearance DLC. The 1506 memories are listed as "Restored Memory" and were either repaired by Rebecca during your time in Monterrigioni, or somehow accessed after Desmond passed out at the end of Brotherhood. When accessed after the game's ending, you get to the memory marker and see the Animus world glitch out and hear dialogue from the first memory of the Restored Sequence. William M. says that Ezio seems to be remembering something from 1506. Then it's in this Sequence when Ezio confirms the Apple is already "put to rest".

There is another mystery that may be related to this. We don't know much about the Animus other than Desmond's experiences, but it seems like it's supposed to be normal to just choose a time period/memory to go to and simply view it. But when Abstergo tries to view Alta´r's memory of seeing the Apple's map and when the Assassins try to get Desmond to view the memory of the Apple being hidden, they glitch out and Desmond gets sent back to an earlier, more stable memory. This wasn't relevant in AC2 because they were purposely having Desmond live Ezio's entire life.

Lucy says in the first game that there's too much "psychological trauma" and she can't anchor Desmond to the memory. In one of Desmond's conversations with Rebecca in Brotherhood, he remarks that the disrupted memory is getting clearer. Rebecca responds, "The sequence is repairing itself, as if we're helping you work through psychological trauma." My question is, what is the psychological trauma? Is there something about these memories involving the Apple that's causing too much psychological trauma and knocking Desmond back to a more stable memory? Or does Desmond himself have some sort of psychological trauma that is preventing him from seeing these memories without synchronizing with his ancestors more? Is there any chance that he already had some sort of traumatic experience with an Apple of Eden before the events of the first game and doesn't remember it?

None of these theories gives me a satisfying answer to why you can only see the memory of Ezio hiding the Apple after playing the Cesare assassination that happened later. Another thing to notice is that when you first start to see the Apple being hidden, the world is still orange and glitchy. As soon as Ezio puts the Apple down on the pedestal in Juno's Temple, it seems like energy goes out from it and into the Temple itself. When this starts to happen, the memory suddenly becomes clear and focused.

There does seem to be something important about a memory inside a memory, or competing memories like the pregnant Subject 15. I don't think it's because of an Animus inside an Animus, but there's something there. I don't think they just had this all happen for no reason. But they had better address it in a major way in Revelations, or else they're really going to leave us hanging.
Interesting thoughts. I'm thinking using the apple might be causing psychological trauma. It would make sense, since it depletes health (which is basically the synchronization bar).
I'm thinking the orange background in the Animus is a sign of an unstable memory. Just like when the animus background goes red-ish when you desynchronize, the orange seems to be a warning that it's on the brink of desynchronization.

Calvarok
08-19-2011, 05:59 PM
There's an interesting thing to note: when the apple was first taken from the vault, it was taken by Romulous, in the same armor and robes that Ezio was cannonically wearing when he placed the apple there. So maybe the orange part is depicting the apple being taken in reverse by Romulous, and then it fastforwards to Ezio placing it again, in the same armor so you couldn't tell the difference.

I highly doubt this as they showed Ezio wearing Altair's armor instead of the romulous armor when Desmond saw him with the bleeding effect in the vault.

But anyways, it's still pretty neat that the Apple was possibly taken and replaced by people hundreds of years apart, but wearing the same armor.

itsamea-mario
08-19-2011, 06:16 PM
I don't get what's so special about the death of cesare.

NewBlade200
08-19-2011, 06:33 PM
Cesare was the last man standing, so he was also the big bad guy that needed killing like a guillotine needs an edge. Otherwise there wasn't anything but a lying, murdering, incestuous cardinal turned captain general who got his *** handed to him during a siege.

So no, there wasn't anything special about Cesare's death. It was just something they put in there so they could have a boss fight.

Calvarok
08-19-2011, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by itsamea-mario:
I don't get what's so special about the death of cesare.
Each ACB assassination had a certain vice that the target indulged in, and Ezio explained their folly in their last words. Cesare's was pride: Ezio showed him that he was just a man after all.

LightRey
08-19-2011, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by Calvarok:
There's an interesting thing to note: when the apple was first taken from the vault, it was taken by Romulous, in the same armor and robes that Ezio was cannonically wearing when he placed the apple there. So maybe the orange part is depicting the apple being taken in reverse by Romulous, and then it fastforwards to Ezio placing it again, in the same armor so you couldn't tell the difference.

I highly doubt this as they showed Ezio wearing Altair's armor instead of the romulous armor when Desmond saw him with the bleeding effect in the vault.

But anyways, it's still pretty neat that the Apple was possibly taken and replaced by people hundreds of years apart, but wearing the same armor.
Don't you mean Brutus?

twenty_glyphs
08-19-2011, 07:56 PM
I don't think Brutus took an Apple from Juno's Temple. The exact quote from the scroll is:


The door has opened! What lies inside has altered my perception and left me shaken, the very pillars of my beliefs toppled. Every event is a link in a chain, forged by something long dead. Or does it still live?

I calm myself and venture into the light. The ghosts howl inside my head, calling me forward. I have never seen architecture built to such a grand scale, lit by phantom radiance. Something lies at the center of the chamber, something powerful that I cannot reach. Surely Gods must have had a hand in its design, but which Gods?

A pedestal has emerged from the ground. I consider fleeing this madness, but I know it will draw me back. I rest my palm upon it and I am blinded! Filled by prophecy! I see Rome in flames and I am driven to action.

That sounds to me like Brutus saw something in the center where Ezio left the Apple, possibly another Apple. Then the pedestal emerged from the ground where you first come down the steps into the chamber and Brutus saw a vision from that. It doesn't sound like the steps ever came up for him like they did for Desmond, and he certainly doesn't say he took an Apple with him or what he did with it afterwards. Besides, Ezio's Apple is supposed to be the same one Alta´r had, which he found under Solomon's Temple. Since the Templars had to excavate there for so long and the Apple was in the Ark of the Covenant, I get the feeling that that Apple was down there for a long time, possibly since the decline of the nation of Israel, and before Brutus' time.

As for the orange Animus background being a sign of pending desynchronization, I'm not sure. The Christina memories never show signs of being unstable, you just see the orange as it loads. It could be nothing and not be that important. It just feels like since nothing else has ever had that orange background and all of a sudden both the repressed memories and the disrupted Cesare memory have it, it means something.

Calvarok
08-19-2011, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by twenty_glyphs:
I don't think Brutus took an Apple from Juno's Temple. The exact quote from the scroll is:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The door has opened! What lies inside has altered my perception and left me shaken, the very pillars of my beliefs toppled. Every event is a link in a chain, forged by something long dead. Or does it still live?

I calm myself and venture into the light. The ghosts howl inside my head, calling me forward. I have never seen architecture built to such a grand scale, lit by phantom radiance. Something lies at the center of the chamber, something powerful that I cannot reach. Surely Gods must have had a hand in its design, but which Gods?

A pedestal has emerged from the ground. I consider fleeing this madness, but I know it will draw me back. I rest my palm upon it and I am blinded! Filled by prophecy! I see Rome in flames and I am driven to action.

That sounds to me like Brutus saw something in the center where Ezio left the Apple, possibly another Apple. Then the pedestal emerged from the ground where you first come down the steps into the chamber and Brutus saw a vision from that. It doesn't sound like the steps ever came up for him like they did for Desmond, and he certainly doesn't say he took an Apple with him or what he did with it afterwards. Besides, Ezio's Apple is supposed to be the same one Alta´r had, which he found under Solomon's Temple. Since the Templars had to excavate there for so long and the Apple was in the Ark of the Covenant, I get the feeling that that Apple was down there for a long time, possibly since the decline of the nation of Israel, and before Brutus' time.

As for the orange Animus background being a sign of pending desynchronization, I'm not sure. The Christina memories never show signs of being unstable, you just see the orange as it loads. It could be nothing and not be that important. It just feels like since nothing else has ever had that orange background and all of a sudden both the repressed memories and the disrupted Cesare memory have it, it means something. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

whoops, I fogot the exact wording of that. And I forgot he was called Brutus. >.<

LightRey
08-19-2011, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by twenty_glyphs:
I don't think Brutus took an Apple from Juno's Temple. The exact quote from the scroll is:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The door has opened! What lies inside has altered my perception and left me shaken, the very pillars of my beliefs toppled. Every event is a link in a chain, forged by something long dead. Or does it still live?

I calm myself and venture into the light. The ghosts howl inside my head, calling me forward. I have never seen architecture built to such a grand scale, lit by phantom radiance. Something lies at the center of the chamber, something powerful that I cannot reach. Surely Gods must have had a hand in its design, but which Gods?

A pedestal has emerged from the ground. I consider fleeing this madness, but I know it will draw me back. I rest my palm upon it and I am blinded! Filled by prophecy! I see Rome in flames and I am driven to action.

That sounds to me like Brutus saw something in the center where Ezio left the Apple, possibly another Apple. Then the pedestal emerged from the ground where you first come down the steps into the chamber and Brutus saw a vision from that. It doesn't sound like the steps ever came up for him like they did for Desmond, and he certainly doesn't say he took an Apple with him or what he did with it afterwards. Besides, Ezio's Apple is supposed to be the same one Alta´r had, which he found under Solomon's Temple. Since the Templars had to excavate there for so long and the Apple was in the Ark of the Covenant, I get the feeling that that Apple was down there for a long time, possibly since the decline of the nation of Israel, and before Brutus' time.

As for the orange Animus background being a sign of pending desynchronization, I'm not sure. The Christina memories never show signs of being unstable, you just see the orange as it loads. It could be nothing and not be that important. It just feels like since nothing else has ever had that orange background and all of a sudden both the repressed memories and the disrupted Cesare memory have it, it means something. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, I was going to follow up with that :P
As for the orange Animus loading screen, at the very least it seems to have something to do with the accessibility of the memory.

Cercatrova
08-19-2011, 08:19 PM
The orange specifically means it is a repressed memory. Meaning other specific memories must be unlocked before they can be accessed. It should be noted, at least in my experience, all of these memories, when in the orange "loading" screen have some sort of interaction beyond usual, for the Christina memories you can see her and chase her, for Sequence 9, it is a video showing various scenes, and later, replaying the "death" scene of Cesare.

Poodle_of_Doom
08-19-2011, 09:54 PM
Ignore me for the time being, I'm only passing through, a simple flicker of light passing through the dark.....

But no, seriously, pretend this post isn't here. I like what Rey had to say in the beginning, and where this is going. I'm about to play through brotherhood again, and to keep tabs on this while I do.

LightRey
08-20-2011, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by Cercatrova:
The orange specifically means it is a repressed memory. Meaning other specific memories must be unlocked before they can be accessed. It should be noted, at least in my experience, all of these memories, when in the orange "loading" screen have some sort of interaction beyond usual, for the Christina memories you can see her and chase her, for Sequence 9, it is a video showing various scenes, and later, replaying the "death" scene of Cesare.
Well I wouldn't say that it's limited to repressed memories. They never say, or suggest, that sequence 9 is a repressed memory. It's just really glitchy and accessing it seems to cause a "memory loop", linking Desmond back to the end of ACII.

Poodle_of_Doom
08-24-2011, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by twenty_glyphs:
I've been wanting to post on this for a while, but have been trying to get my thoughts in order on it, so thanks for bringing this up.

At one time I thought maybe the whole Sequence 9 was a vision of the future that Ezio saw in the Apple. I don't think that anymore because it seems like the Apple merely gives glimpses of the future, not entire story sequences to live out. Now I'm wondering if it involves some kind of repressed memory because you see the same orange Animus background that you see during the Christina missions. Also the orange, ghost-like figures in Cesare's speech at the end is similar to the model of Ezio and Christina running through the orange Animus background when loading a repressed Christina memory for the first time.

And Ezio does seem to be remembering the Vault when he looks at the Sun the first time you see Sequence 9 at the beginning of the game. Perhaps that short, corrupted sequence is the vision that Ezio sees in the Apple years earlier. But I'm still wondering why Rebecca thinks Ezio hid the Apple in 1507 when it was clearly earlier (the novel indicates it happened sometime in the first half of 1505, for what that's worth).

Also mixed up in this is why Ezio's 1506 memories are locked until they become available in the Da Vinci Disappearance DLC. The 1506 memories are listed as "Restored Memory" and were either repaired by Rebecca during your time in Monterrigioni, or somehow accessed after Desmond passed out at the end of Brotherhood. When accessed after the game's ending, you get to the memory marker and see the Animus world glitch out and hear dialogue from the first memory of the Restored Sequence. William M. says that Ezio seems to be remembering something from 1506. Then it's in this Sequence when Ezio confirms the Apple is already "put to rest".

There is another mystery that may be related to this. We don't know much about the Animus other than Desmond's experiences, but it seems like it's supposed to be normal to just choose a time period/memory to go to and simply view it. But when Abstergo tries to view Alta´r's memory of seeing the Apple's map and when the Assassins try to get Desmond to view the memory of the Apple being hidden, they glitch out and Desmond gets sent back to an earlier, more stable memory. This wasn't relevant in AC2 because they were purposely having Desmond live Ezio's entire life.

Lucy says in the first game that there's too much "psychological trauma" and she can't anchor Desmond to the memory. In one of Desmond's conversations with Rebecca in Brotherhood, he remarks that the disrupted memory is getting clearer. Rebecca responds, "The sequence is repairing itself, as if we're helping you work through psychological trauma." My question is, what is the psychological trauma? Is there something about these memories involving the Apple that's causing too much psychological trauma and knocking Desmond back to a more stable memory? Or does Desmond himself have some sort of psychological trauma that is preventing him from seeing these memories without synchronizing with his ancestors more? Is there any chance that he already had some sort of traumatic experience with an Apple of Eden before the events of the first game and doesn't remember it?

None of these theories gives me a satisfying answer to why you can only see the memory of Ezio hiding the Apple after playing the Cesare assassination that happened later. Another thing to notice is that when you first start to see the Apple being hidden, the world is still orange and glitchy. As soon as Ezio puts the Apple down on the pedestal in Juno's Temple, it seems like energy goes out from it and into the Temple itself. When this starts to happen, the memory suddenly becomes clear and focused.

There does seem to be something important about a memory inside a memory, or competing memories like the pregnant Subject 15. I don't think it's because of an Animus inside an Animus, but there's something there. I don't think they just had this all happen for no reason. But they had better address it in a major way in Revelations, or else they're really going to leave us hanging.

I was playing through ACB again today, and bought one of the ruins. What happened when I did made me think of your post here. I'm curious to know what everyone thinks about it. See, when I bought it (don't ask me which one, I honestly don't remember), the background went like a pale orange as it was updating, saving, and bringing up the new value of the city,... and then went back to it's normal daytime colors. Could this be related to the quoted theory somehow?

rileypoole1234
08-24-2011, 08:54 PM
You know, I've always had this theory that the events of ACB just seemed off to me. Almost as if they were put out of order. Not the whole game just certain events. I think your theory is probably right to be honest. A couple things popped into my head as well. What if the whole game is out of order? I'm thinking you're right though. I think anything that's not a Cristina memory with an orangeish glitchy Animus background is what it looks like when you view something through the Apple. But i'm not sure. We all could be wrong, or we all could be right. It's a wild ride Ubisoft is taking us on...

Calvarok
08-24-2011, 09:51 PM
I really think that it was just a repressed memory, hence why it was viewed out of order.

LightRey
08-25-2011, 03:09 AM
Originally posted by Calvarok:
I really think that it was just a repressed memory, hence why it was viewed out of order.
well, the problem is it's not just out of order. Rebecca actually refers to the memory as being the memory where Ezio places the apple, while the particular memory we're seeing in the first part of sequence 9 is years after said event.