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woofiedog
01-28-2005, 12:58 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif A little info on the Curtiss CW-21 Fighter.

http://www.go2war2.nl/artikel-afb/cw21_00336_4g.jpg

http://www.go2war2.nl/artikel-afb/cw21_00336_3g.jpg

Dutch Service:
Most of the aircraft bearing the Curtiss name were products of the Curtiss Airplane Division of the Curtiss-Wright Corporation. A few, however, were products of the St. Louis Division of the parent company, one such being the CW-21 "Demon". The philosophy of this design was to produce a lightweight interceptor, which possessed a high rate of climb. The CW-21 had a climb rate of nearly 5,000 feet per minute, hence its promotion as a "Mile-a-Minute"" interceptor. The St. Louis Division used their CW-19R two-seat trainer as the basis for the design.

Like other successful Curtiss designs, the CW-21 was built with export in mind. The first flight was made in January 1939 and in the same year China ordered 35 examples, of which 32 were to be shipped as components for assembly in China. Powered by a 1,000-hp Wright Cyclone R-1820-G5, the CW-21 was armed with two machine guns, one of .30-caliber and the other .50-caliber and mounted in the upper fuselage. The main legs retracted rearwards, to lie in fairings under the wings.

A further 24 improved examples designated CW-21 B were ordered by the Netherlands for the Dutch East Indies. These aircraft featured an improved landing gear, which retracted inward and flush under the wing. The armament was changed to two .50-caliber machine guns in the upper fuselage. Some Dutch examples possessed four machine guns in their CW-21 Bs, which had two field supplied .30-caliber guns mounted in the wings and firing outside the propeller arc. The model represents this type of CW-21 "Demon", but I did not install any wings guns.

Of the 24 CW-21 Bs received by the Netherlands, only 17 were in serviceable condition by the time of the Japanese invasion of the East Indies in January 1942. They were quickly overcome and decimated by the overwhelming odds and the Dutch were forced to surrender on March 9, 1942. Although they never got near any Japanese bombers, they shot down four Zeros in the first two confrontations, with the Dutch losing eleven CW-21 Bs. By March 1st the Dutch had only three CW-21 Bs in serviceable order.

Two examples of the CW-21 B were captured by the Japanese and one example was found in Singapore after the surrender.

Chinese Service:
24 CW-21 Demons (fighter)
The CW-21s were bought as kits and assembled at Loi-wing during early 1942; by the time they began to approach completion in May, the Japanese advanced on Loi-wing, and the almost-completed aircraft were destroyed.

woofiedog
01-28-2005, 12:58 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif A little info on the Curtiss CW-21 Fighter.

http://www.go2war2.nl/artikel-afb/cw21_00336_4g.jpg

http://www.go2war2.nl/artikel-afb/cw21_00336_3g.jpg

Dutch Service:
Most of the aircraft bearing the Curtiss name were products of the Curtiss Airplane Division of the Curtiss-Wright Corporation. A few, however, were products of the St. Louis Division of the parent company, one such being the CW-21 "Demon". The philosophy of this design was to produce a lightweight interceptor, which possessed a high rate of climb. The CW-21 had a climb rate of nearly 5,000 feet per minute, hence its promotion as a "Mile-a-Minute"" interceptor. The St. Louis Division used their CW-19R two-seat trainer as the basis for the design.

Like other successful Curtiss designs, the CW-21 was built with export in mind. The first flight was made in January 1939 and in the same year China ordered 35 examples, of which 32 were to be shipped as components for assembly in China. Powered by a 1,000-hp Wright Cyclone R-1820-G5, the CW-21 was armed with two machine guns, one of .30-caliber and the other .50-caliber and mounted in the upper fuselage. The main legs retracted rearwards, to lie in fairings under the wings.

A further 24 improved examples designated CW-21 B were ordered by the Netherlands for the Dutch East Indies. These aircraft featured an improved landing gear, which retracted inward and flush under the wing. The armament was changed to two .50-caliber machine guns in the upper fuselage. Some Dutch examples possessed four machine guns in their CW-21 Bs, which had two field supplied .30-caliber guns mounted in the wings and firing outside the propeller arc. The model represents this type of CW-21 "Demon", but I did not install any wings guns.

Of the 24 CW-21 Bs received by the Netherlands, only 17 were in serviceable condition by the time of the Japanese invasion of the East Indies in January 1942. They were quickly overcome and decimated by the overwhelming odds and the Dutch were forced to surrender on March 9, 1942. Although they never got near any Japanese bombers, they shot down four Zeros in the first two confrontations, with the Dutch losing eleven CW-21 Bs. By March 1st the Dutch had only three CW-21 Bs in serviceable order.

Two examples of the CW-21 B were captured by the Japanese and one example was found in Singapore after the surrender.

Chinese Service:
24 CW-21 Demons (fighter)
The CW-21s were bought as kits and assembled at Loi-wing during early 1942; by the time they began to approach completion in May, the Japanese advanced on Loi-wing, and the almost-completed aircraft were destroyed.

Tooz_69GIAP
01-28-2005, 02:51 AM
Gib says it's done, and with Oleg, so, unless it's somehow affected with the Northrop debacle, we should see it in a patch with those other elusive aircraft!!

Looking forward to it!!!

Badsight.
01-28-2005, 02:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by woofiedog:
Of the 24 CW-21 Bs received by the Netherlands, only 17 were in serviceable condition by the time of the Japanese invasion of the East Indies in January 1942. They were quickly overcome and decimated by the overwhelming odds and the Dutch were forced to surrender on March 9, 1992. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
those dutch held out remarkably

(didnt anyone tell them it was all over in 45 , & wtf , who was it that they surrended too ?!?!?!?)

Gibbage1
01-28-2005, 03:21 AM
Ya. ITs done. Only some very small fixes to the cockpit. Its not affected by the legal problems.

woofiedog
01-28-2005, 06:23 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Badsight.... Yes... I changed the 1992 Surrender date! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gifSorry... it was kind of late for the Dutch to tell everyone. I'd think!

Gibbage1... That is some Great News!
Would Oleg and Team going to add Dutch Voicies and Marking's to the Game also?
We would need only four more Dutch Aircraft or Aircraft that they bought from OverSea's to make things complete. Mint! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

ElAurens
01-28-2005, 06:37 AM
The CW 21 will be a suprise to many on these boards. Everyone looks at it's dismal record and assumes it was the aircraft's fault. The real issues with the CW 21 were it's lateness in getting to the final purchasers, (no one knew tha Japanese were going to attack when they did), thus not giving the men who flew them enough time to train in them, and their very small numbers compared to the hundreds of aircraft thrown by the Japanese into the assault on the NEI and China.

In our sim however, these are not going to be problems.

I can hear the whines from the axis pilots already....

Hehehehe....

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

EnGaurde
01-28-2005, 06:49 AM
ohh yes, there SHALL be whines aplenty...

5000 ft a minute climb? like an angel smacked across the arrse.

I can hear the comlaints about how the american carrier aircraft wont be able to out dive it, the 50cals wont damage it, and its the new uber plane.....

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

woofiedog
01-28-2005, 06:55 AM
ElAurens http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

F19_Olli72
01-28-2005, 06:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by woofiedog:
Would Oleg and Team going to add Dutch Voicies and Marking's to the Game also? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dutch markings are already in the game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Under allies, choose NL.

woofiedog
01-28-2005, 07:10 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif I did not pickup on that Oleg & Team had already added Dutch Markings... Mint!
Thank's F19_Olli72... I should have seen that.http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

GerritJ9
01-28-2005, 07:31 AM
Dutch speech pack (3rd party) is being tested at the moment.

Aero_Shodanjo
01-28-2005, 08:44 AM
I get an impression that if only the Dutch had sufficient numbers of that fighters and pilots to handle them, the Japanese might not be so successful in invading Dutch East Indies.

It took only 4 months after Pearl Harbor for the Japanese to conquer this archipelago.

But then again, had the Japanese failed to make their way there, I might be able to speak Dutch today http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Nice plane btw, cant wait to have a ride in it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

PS: Can someone provide performance comparison between CW-21B vs Japanese planes - say A6M2 Zero or Hayabusa?

Mr_Nakajima
01-28-2005, 10:26 AM
The CW-21 was a very poor fighter. The Dutch bought it because in the middle of a World War and with limited funds they could not get any better; the same presumably for the Chinese. No-one else showed any interest in it, and quite wisely.

Its key weaknesses were a lack of armour and self sealing tanks. It should climb and manoeuver very well, but it is weakly armed and very, very fragile.

Am I looking forward to flying it? Of course! As a rule I prefer the early war aircraft and the CW-21 is an interesting plane. But it isn't some undiscovered monster which will suddenly dominate air combat in PF. Enjoy it for what it is.

Gibbage1
01-28-2005, 11:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr_Nakajima:


Its key weaknesses were a lack of armour and self sealing tanks. It should climb and manoeuver very well, but it is weakly armed and very, very fragile.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Compair it to its main target. The A6M2. The Zero had LESS armor (Cw-21b had pilot armor), had LESS horsepower (about 100HP) and has 100lb HEAVIER. It should own the Zero in app things but turn.

Capt._Tenneal
01-28-2005, 12:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Ya. ITs done. Only some very small fixes to the cockpit. Its not affected by the legal problems. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kudos to the Curtiss corporation. Or whoever owns it now, I guess. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

ZG77_Nagual
01-28-2005, 12:24 PM
Found this quote in a thread about the P40 vs zero

""Both the Zero and the Oscar were brilliant and innovative
&gt;designs, which gave the Japanese absolute air superiority for the first
&gt;year or so of the Pacific war."

Innovative:
This is down right laughable, I have flown a CW-21, an aircraft built
by Curtiss Wright in 1938 that's empty weight was 3150 lbs which was 10
mph faster than the Zero, could out climb the Zero by more than 2500
f/p/m, and 100 mph faster in a dive faster and had a higher role rate
as well. Why didn't the military buy it. Just dumb I guess"

Mr_Nakajima
01-28-2005, 12:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
[Compair it to its main target. The A6M2. The Zero had LESS armor (Cw-21b had pilot armor), had LESS horsepower (about 100HP) and has 100lb HEAVIER. It should own the Zero in app things but turn. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Gibbage. How much pilot armour did the CW-21 have? I know very little about it beyond what is said in the 'Bloody Shambles' volume, and they concentrate on history rather than the minutae of aircraft design. IIRC many of its pilots unfortunately ended up badly burned.

Judging from the sceen shots it looks a great job by the way. Thank you for your work once more!

Badsight.
01-28-2005, 01:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr_Nakajima:
The CW-21 was a very poor fighter. The Dutch bought it because in the middle of a World War and with limited funds they could not get any better; the same presumably for the Chinese. No-one else showed any interest in it, and quite wisely.

Its key weaknesses were a lack of armour and self sealing tanks. It should climb and manoeuver very well, but it is weakly armed and very, very fragile. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
thats not going to stop it being a killer

look at the similer firepower in the B239

look at the performance of the Hayabusa

this plane is going to be awesome , be sure

flyplenty
01-28-2005, 01:32 PM
No matter its performance (we'll find out for ourselves, I guess), I'm looking forward to flying it - in Dutch markings. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

t0n.
01-28-2005, 02:01 PM
I'm desperately hoping the CW-21 will be accompanied by an appropriate map and campaign. On its own its no more than a beautifully moddeled oddity, but given the proper context it
becomes no less important than the Wildcats and Zekes.

Have you heard anything (that you're allowed to share) Gib?

Aero_Shodanjo
01-28-2005, 08:37 PM
Here's hoping for a map of Indonesia or a smaller Java map or both http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Then I'll be like, "Wow, I can see my house from here!" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

KGr.HH-Sunburst
01-28-2005, 08:55 PM
be prepared for some Dutch airpower boys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
im glad to hear its done http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Da_Godfatha
01-29-2005, 05:21 AM
Now all we need is a FLYABLE P-36/Hawk 75. That will make for interesting Dutch East Indies flying!

IL2-chuter
01-29-2005, 12:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr_Nakajima:
The CW-21 was a very poor fighter. The Dutch bought it because in the middle of a World War and with limited funds they could not get any better; the same presumably for the Chinese. No-one else showed any interest in it, and quite wisely.

Its key weaknesses were a lack of armour and self sealing tanks. It should climb and manoeuver very well, but it is weakly armed and very, very fragile. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Chinese wanted it (handling/climb), not the P-40 (speed). They were of the turn-circle school (same thinking as Japanese), and put emphasis on maneuverability. I expect it to be fun . . .
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Note: There is a civilian (only one made) Falcon two seater, based on SNC-1 (similar to first photo posted) up in McMinnville, Oregon with the Spruce (actually, birch) Goose. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif Gorgeous http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif