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XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 09:41 PM
Hi all,

after a couple of weeks of online playing (mostly weekends), in fact two months I think, I feel quite discouraged... This is not that I get constantly shot down, i could not expect anything else... But I cannot achieve a single hit! Since my first day online, when I shot two bandits down (beginner's luck? Team kills?), I got maybe two kills or so... Today I didn't make a single hole in a guy's airplane despite being 300 m at his six, him flying striaght... While offline, I am not excellent, but still get the AI enemies on regular basis. Online it doesn't work, all the deflection angles (high and low) that I have practiced just do not work online... The maneouvring doesnt't work, I cannot outturn anyone, in p-39N I couldn't outturn a bf109g, despite a 19s vs 22s advantage according to the specs... I seem to be the slowest guy in the field whatever I fly, it just doesn't climb whatever I do, I just don't understand, HILFE!

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 09:41 PM
Hi all,

after a couple of weeks of online playing (mostly weekends), in fact two months I think, I feel quite discouraged... This is not that I get constantly shot down, i could not expect anything else... But I cannot achieve a single hit! Since my first day online, when I shot two bandits down (beginner's luck? Team kills?), I got maybe two kills or so... Today I didn't make a single hole in a guy's airplane despite being 300 m at his six, him flying striaght... While offline, I am not excellent, but still get the AI enemies on regular basis. Online it doesn't work, all the deflection angles (high and low) that I have practiced just do not work online... The maneouvring doesnt't work, I cannot outturn anyone, in p-39N I couldn't outturn a bf109g, despite a 19s vs 22s advantage according to the specs... I seem to be the slowest guy in the field whatever I fly, it just doesn't climb whatever I do, I just don't understand, HILFE!

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 11:34 PM
heh,

fly against me, that will change your luck!

I might as well be flying a hot air balloon and firing a spud gun with the number of times I get whacked.

Last night for example I did manage to get some smoke outta my target, but then promptly flew into the ground.

sigh.

Just gonna keep on trying.




Cpt-Madcowz
Comsa (http://www.comsa.co.uk)



"When the hunter comes, the tiger runs with the deer."

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 11:56 PM
Think we could start our own club? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif you not alone M8 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<img src="http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/D13-Hamm109 copy.jpg"

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 12:35 AM
LOL. Yep been there still doing that. Try and wait till your only .25 or closer to shoot. .15 being even better. Stay higher than your enemy. Always look at what your airspeed and alt is. Tis a trade off. Alt is good cuz can be converted to speed and visa versa. Use the zoom-in feature to find out which direction enemy is heading in. Line up your shot accordinly. 39 is a tricky plane to hit things with the cannon. Smooth flying no jerks on joystick is a must.... and of course always be looking out on your six even if fixated on a boogie. Incomeing is more important. Evade first. Get the fight on your side. Don't be the one who has to defend all the time. And yep. I lose a lot too but am getting better. Keep up the trying and good luck!!!!! S!

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 01:24 AM
HansKnappstick wrote:
"The maneouvring doesnt't work, I cannot outturn anyone, in p-39N I couldn't outturn a bf109g, despite a 19s vs 22s advantage according to the specs... I seem to be the slowest guy in the field whatever I fly, it just doesn't climb whatever I do, I just don't understand"

For starters, don't give up!!!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif It takes a while to get good against human pilots, the a.i. isn't as wild on the stick for starters and is therefor easier to shoot down.

As far as speed goes, learn CEM. Do you adjust your prop pitch and mixture? If not, you will continue to be outclassed by someone in the same or lesser a/c if they have this tool mastered.

Do you use a rudder in the turns? This can tighten your deflection shot at the enemy rather quickly, but watch that airspeed, to slow and over you'll go.

How about gun convergence, for a new guy i suggest 400 and do NOT take a plane that has a big cannon for your first plane. Try something like the Yak 3, once you get used to that, then you can take up the big gun a/c.

Are you flying in the cockpit or with most or all of it turned off? If you're in cockpit, raise the convergence to 600 and see if you get any hits. (it's a small insane theory of mine) If you don't use the cockpit view try 400 on both settings and see if that helps, you can lower it when you get better. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif




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Message Edited on 10/05/0307:27PM by LW_Cobra

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 03:33 AM
You've really got to learn to see the angles in a turn fight. It may seem like your being outturned at first. So you turn harder trying to come around on him. Which causes you to bleed off speed, and you can't keep up.

This is normally what happens when you turn inside of them. You need to turn outside of them. Thus follow their path instead of simply trying to get your guns on them.

Thats the biggest thing I had to learn. Just fly with them and the shot will come. Trying to force your aircraft around to get a shot doesn't work.

I can't give a lot of P-39 advice as I never fly it. I'm typically in 109's or if on the Allied side I'll be in a Yak or a Hurricane MKII if it's available.

So basically just fly first, and be patient in the fight. Push them where you want them to be, and make them make the mistakes. Then when you get that good shot don't hold back. Hammer down on them as hard as you can.

I remember I was always worried about running out of ammo so I was just firing short bursts. Simply don't fire untill the shot is right. Yet when you do get that shot hammer them. Untill I started doing that I never had an opponent explode in mid-air. They would just end up crashing or burst into flames.

Also don't charge into the fight. Look at whats happening, and pick your targets. Time it so when you do attack your coming in at an advantage. Like if you catch a 109 pilot trying to turn fight he's pretty easy prey for any Allied plane. Just make sure you have the angles or he will magically out turn you. Even though it's not that he's out turning you it's just the angles.

Avoid the P-39 though online that big nose cannon is worthless except against bombers.

Every take-off is optional, but every landing is mandatory!

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 03:54 AM
Read "Fighter Combat" by Robert Shaw. It will help tremendously.

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 04:03 AM
- The maneouvring doesnt't work, I cannot
- outturn anyone, in p-39N I couldn't outturn a
- bf109g, despite a 19s vs 22s advantage according to
- the specs... I seem to be the slowest guy in the
- field whatever I fly, it just doesn't climb whatever
- I do, I just don't understand, HILFE!
-
-

What kind of connection do you use. Problems with maneouvering could be because of lag. I use 56K and everything is fine when there are 2-3 players on the server. But if more, guys with broadbend fly circuls around me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif So try to play on servers with fewer players.

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 04:09 AM
Ahh, great. Nice too see I'm not the only target drone out there (-:

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 10:14 AM
If like me you have got a 56k connection your probably wasting your time online - that plane your shooting isn't there, he's on your six shooting YOU, that why your tail has just fallen off, and as you hit the ground he flies away thinking he's an ace!
The first thing needed for the on line game isn't skill - its a fast connection.

Tedious unoriginal philosophical statement the pith of which is lost in repetition.

http://allanhall.ic24.net/SmallRest1.JPG

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 10:50 AM
notice that it takes time for bullets to hit plane , and plane is moving, so aim in front of plane, u have to learn hw much in what angle and speed. its hard, i know, also config your convergence of the guns, set them at a distance u usually shoot, 150 to 200 mtrs , mine is set at 100 i love to shoot at close range ( also more hits/damage )
i know there is an option in offline gameplay to see the hits of bullts as little white dots, i never used it but i know some pilots who did that so you can see where bullets hit, only offline possible. but for groundattack very usefull.

also what i did was , make a mission for yourself with quick mission maker, and let a few freindly planes fly around, u can get on their six easy and see how ur bullets hit. they will flly straight but you yourself can dive to them in a turn, etc.

convergence and the "aim in front "is the most important.
really practise and u will see it will go better.

good luck

http://www.mitglied.lycos.de/hq9/images/sig-Trespa51.gif


papercuts are the worst

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 10:55 AM
ah i also read now you have speed probs, well flaps up, armor cowl ( cooling ) closed, proppitch set to 95 % ,and real important: trim your plane !!! then u will go as fast as everyone. also set a key for autolevel, when u hit this key the aileron will go level, this way you can gain speed without messing with the trim.

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papercuts are the worst

http://www.mitglied.lycos.de/hq9/images/sig-Trespa51.gif


papercuts are the worst

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 06:43 PM
Thank you all for the encouraging responses.

I use the broadband (T-DSL), so this was not the lag making problems. Probably I just lost too much speed, maybe I was pulling on the stick too hard. I seem to remember hearing my wings buffet, so this might have been that.

For deflection shooting, I have been practicing this offline, and I think I am good at it, well, I don't understand why in equal circumstances I cannot hit anything online. Perhaps the circumstances aren't equal (me being nervous), or I am still hitting something but don't see it (no 'arcade' online), but they hit me more...

Do you suggest I should practice more offline, say, to hit "always"?

The most discouraging thing is, I just see a guy diving on me, so I turn into him "according to the book", he makes a small adjustment, gives just one shot at an incredible angle and puff! my wing is off.

As for the aicraft choice, I was recently frown upon for choosing La-5FN (I play il-2 Sturmovik, not FB) as it is UFO according to them... Well, what can I take then (restricting to soviet planes)?

Greetings...!

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 06:58 PM
Can us "non-ACES" agree on what night we'll all play together on HyperLobby? It sure would be nice playing against my fellow peers /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 07:26 PM
TacticalSkirmsh wrote:
- Can us "non-ACES" agree on what night we'll all play
- together on HyperLobby? It sure would be nice
- playing against my fellow peers

-
That's a great idea, or even better we can ask a more experienced guy just to watch and correct our mistakes...

Night = european time pls

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 08:11 PM
flapbuster wrote:
- If like me you have got a 56k connection your
- probably wasting your time online - that plane your
- shooting isn't there, he's on your six shooting YOU,
- that why your tail has just fallen off, and as you
- hit the ground he flies away thinking he's an ace!
- The first thing needed for the on line game isn't
- skill - its a fast connection.
-

I played all thru the original il2 on a dial up connection. Never had much trouble with it. Obviously BB is better, but you can have fun online with dialup. Just find the servers u ping well to. Anything less then 250 or so is great.

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 10:15 PM
Hello to all,

I am not an expert but I may be able to add some input http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I have been in FB since May and I also found online and offline very different http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

The thing that helped me most in learning to shoot is to pick any 12 enemy bombers and set up the quick mission thing. As you get close and just before you shoot, knock the speed down to its lowest setting, then as you fire you can see where the hits are being scored and make a mental note of where the sight is pointing, and build on the various mental pictures.

I use very short bursts (less than half second I think)to see how far I am off target and quickly adjust my aim, by the time the first shots may miss.. I have already corrected the aim and fired again.

If I think I surprise an enemy target I fire when close as possible, if he knows I am there I keep my fire short and as accurate as possible taking away his machines performance before attempting to destroy him properly.

Knowing the options open to your opponent is a good indication of what he may do, if you know you damaged a wing .. he may turn badly in that direction and prefer to turn to the good side, alowing you to anticipate.

If he dives don't follow him too steeply to catch him, he will want to climb agaim, a sillouetted target against the sky is easier to shoot than one against landscape background.

Shooting is one thing, Anticipation saves ammo.

hope this helps in some way http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 01:26 AM
Hey gang,

I agree, we definately need to have some sort of "Bottom of the barel" club. Today I played for about 6 hours straight, I think I got shot down twice, and I stalled and died to crashing about 40 times =) I don't even give the enemy a chance to shoot at me =)
I would love to have a newbie night. I think it would be great.

As for that P-39, I'm with you, I like it too. I agree the cannon is useless online. But the cockpit on it rocks, I can actualy recover from a spin with it, and it's pretty fast. Best part is that front wheel instead of the tail wheel. Very easy to take off in (I have never crashed it on take off, while I flip a P-40 regularly)

I keep asking for people to help me with my flying, but thus far their tips and pointers have only come in the form of a cloud of lead, flying my way at high velocity. Which is better than nothing I guess =) And a few guys have been very helpfull in answering my questions (Thanks VMF-214_HaVoK, LW_lcarp, TX_FlightRisk and LW_Mud).

It would be great if we could have a forum for us. I'll look into setting up a page for the newbies =) At least then we can practice, without having to get our *** handed to us with a side order of shrapnel.

As far as not hitting anything .... I emptied my P-39 ammo on a IL-2 and it went without a scratch it seamed. Granted, not a single cannon round hit =)

LLMerc

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 01:51 AM
Also, what exactly does trim do, and how is it used correctly?

LLmerc

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 02:39 AM
LLMerc,

Trim refers to offsetting the tendency of an aircraft to pitch up or down, roll off to one side, or yaw when you are not applying stick pressure. Lets say, on takeoff, you apply a bunch of power all at once. Engine torque, P-factor, and the gradual movement of the engine thrust against the side of the tail as you build speed causes the plane to veer (yaw) left or right depending on engine rotation direction, and a little roll will be induced. To counter the yaw, a small adjustable tab is installed at or near the rudder's training edge. By adjusting rudder trim, you can counter that temporary problem. For example, let's say the aicraft wants to turn left on takeoff. You adjust rudder trim right, the tab moves left, and that forces the rudder a little to the right. So you don't have to use as much stick pressure to counter it; the tab does it for you. Some planes use a fixed tab adjusted by a ground crew to accomplish this, so those would not be pilot adjustable. A different example: when you add power in criuse, the aicraft will climb because of the additional lift being made. Adjust the elevator trim down, the tab goes up, and the elevator is forced down a bit, reducing the stick pressure you would need to keep the plane level as it accelerates. Aileron acts similarly. Not all planes have all 3 trim types, so IL2 probably won't respond to some trim inputs in some airplanes. Most aircraft will have at least elevator trim tab(s). More advanced aircraft will have rudder and aileron tabs as well. Whenever you're fighting to make your plane stay in the direction or attitude you want, trim to releave the tendency. If you receive battle damage, or are fighting a stubborn cross wind, adjust it out with trim. The aicraft will fly "cleaner" and faster because you're not constantly bunpimg the stick to correct. If you had a force feedback stick, you'd also get a taste of the difference in feel. Sorry for the "lecture." I have a bit of flight training, and that's how it was explained to me. It requires constant attention as you maneuver and change power settings. But, a couple of good on-line pilots just suggested that you trim it for cruise, and leave it alone during a fight (or, as one of guys just said, use autolevel to neutralize all the trims when you enter a fight). Hope this helps.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 02:47 AM
Read this:

http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend/FYLindex.htm

It's a beginners guide to online dogfighting

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 04:22 PM
DOes a Yak3 not have trim at all then? I tried trimming it last night, all 3 controll surfaces, and nothing seamed to happen.

LLMerc

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 05:04 PM
Yak 3 has pitch trim, I am not sure if it has roll and yaw trim.
Make sure all the keys are configured (they should by default)



"See, Decide, Attack, Reverse or Coffee Break" E.H.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:29 PM
Hi,

I thought I was pretty good offline - rarely got shot down, > 1 or 2 kills per mission against good AI - then I went online.

First time on, I never hit a thing...except the ground.

After a few trips in, I've begun to improve and can, occasionally, down 1 or 2 AND get back to base.

Offline, it's not so difficult to stay on AI six AND to get a shot but with humans...they are all over the place and you have to fly with them until they make a precious mistake.

I think it's purely down to not overdoing it, not trying too hard and being patient. Also, try different tactics - use your energy wisely.

I also found that I learned a lot hovering over the base and waiting for inbound ground attack a/c - they jink but not so badly and it was a way to build up experience of human antics.

Cheers,
Norris (about as far from an ace as you can get and still managing to make an unintentional masterpiece of shooting up his own team)

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:32 PM
ps..

If someone does start a 'noob twerp' server, please count me in.

cheers,
Norris