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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 08:04 PM
This is rather insteresting comparassion made by russian pilot from well known russian squad. It was extreamly hard to translate, due to heavy slang but i did my best to get it as close as possible. I almost died laughing when i read this...oh man. All test were performed on line against well known LW squads.

Enjoy.


Chances of 1941 Soviet fighters vs 1941 ME109-..., ME109-F

Yak-1 - 5% = stalls and spins
Yak-7 - 10% = heavy stalls and spins
Mig`s - 0% = fast moving flammable box
LAGG-41 - 0% = heavy stalling, dead spinning flammable cardboad box
I-16 - 5% = heavily armed old man
I-153 - 0% = old man made of cloth materials

Soviet fighters of 1942 and their chances against ME109-F, ME109-G2

Yak-1B - 40% = First chance of VVS
Yak-9 - 30% = Second chance but not as good as first one
LA-5 - 25% = accident with cant`s see thru plexiglass
-39N - 40% = second chance from Uncle Sam

1943 Soviet fighter vs 1943 LW

LA5-FN - 50% = First fighter that could compete
YAK-9D - 40% = Heavy replacement of original
YAK-9 - 25% = "Let me catch up and fire one shot"
LAGG-43 - 55% = breaks the rule that LAGG is bad plane.



Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub


Message Edited on 07/08/0308:07PM by crazyivan1970

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 08:04 PM
This is rather insteresting comparassion made by russian pilot from well known russian squad. It was extreamly hard to translate, due to heavy slang but i did my best to get it as close as possible. I almost died laughing when i read this...oh man. All test were performed on line against well known LW squads.

Enjoy.


Chances of 1941 Soviet fighters vs 1941 ME109-..., ME109-F

Yak-1 - 5% = stalls and spins
Yak-7 - 10% = heavy stalls and spins
Mig`s - 0% = fast moving flammable box
LAGG-41 - 0% = heavy stalling, dead spinning flammable cardboad box
I-16 - 5% = heavily armed old man
I-153 - 0% = old man made of cloth materials

Soviet fighters of 1942 and their chances against ME109-F, ME109-G2

Yak-1B - 40% = First chance of VVS
Yak-9 - 30% = Second chance but not as good as first one
LA-5 - 25% = accident with cant`s see thru plexiglass
-39N - 40% = second chance from Uncle Sam

1943 Soviet fighter vs 1943 LW

LA5-FN - 50% = First fighter that could compete
YAK-9D - 40% = Heavy replacement of original
YAK-9 - 25% = "Let me catch up and fire one shot"
LAGG-43 - 55% = breaks the rule that LAGG is bad plane.



Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub


Message Edited on 07/08/0308:07PM by crazyivan1970

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 08:07 PM
lol finally, whiners on the russian side. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Good sign the game is headed into the right direction /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 08:07 PM
And that's how it should be..


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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 08:13 PM
LOL good info!

I liked the "Let me catch up and fire one shot" plane!

You have no right of 3+ monitors.
You have no right of Cray Supercomputers.
You have no right of B&Z.
You have no right of whining against Trim on a slider(TOS).
You have the right of Trim on a slider.
You have the right of bat turn.

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1C Ankanor, Defender Of The Truth

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 08:18 PM
This makes the patch more clear everyday.

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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 08:27 PM
Hmm. lets see how many new Russian P-47 squads spring up after the patch. he he /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 08:31 PM
thank you again for the info!

I realy start to think the game will change with the patch /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



quiet_man

second foundation member of the EURO_Snoopy fan club!

I'm quiet_man, but if I post I post quiet much /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 08:46 PM
S! again. I love russian black humor.
And it was just what I'va been looking for.

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 08:46 PM
One whiners opinion. I don't put much stock in it.

Da Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 08:47 PM
Thanks for the info, especially for the LaGG43 I like a lot.

But I'm a little bit surprised that patch testing is done this way, and so openly discussed in the Russian forums! Is it a good thing? I don't think so, because it's easy to imagine what changes can be done this way from one patch built to the next one!

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 08:49 PM
CHDT wrote:

- But I'm a little bit surprised that patch testing is
- done this way, and so openly discussed in the
- Russian forums! Is it a good thing? I don't think
- so, because it's easy to imagine what changes can be
- done this way from one patch built to the next one!
-

This is a leaked patch discussion mate... i think if you ask around you can get latest build.. i could get it, but i rather wait for official release /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
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"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 08:57 PM
In fact, I'm rather optimistic, I've heard that build06 was rather good /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

And I'm sure both Maddox Games and Ubi know that the options choosen on this patch are very important for the future of this sim.

To say the truth, I've waited for the past four months, I can wait some days more /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 08:59 PM
You can get the a version of the patch if you ask around cause it has been leaked and I know several people who have it. I don't have it because that would prevent me from flying VOW and VEF2 unless I do a double install which is a pain in the arse.

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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 09:07 PM
Maj Death,

A double install is insanely easy. Copy your entire FB folder to a another folder labeled "TestPatch" or something on your desktop. Apply your double secret leaked beta patch to that folder. Start up from the FB.exe in that folder. Everthing else will be linked to your original FB folder, so nothing should be interfered with.

You're lucky to find it, I'd love to get my hands on the test07 patch. Give it a shot and let us know if our 190 handles better! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 09:09 PM
I'm inclined to just wait a week or two for it to be released.

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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 09:17 PM
- I-16 - 5% = heavily armed old man


Looks like the I-16's rein of terror is comming to an end.

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 09:22 PM
But even if I rather fly the 190, I hope that the speed of the Yak-9 has been improved, this aircraft flies too low in FB now. I hope also that the Yak-9U will accelerate a little better!

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 09:34 PM
After the patch, when ever you see someone flying LW on a pre-1944 server. You know there're a newb. Tell them to fly a real man's plane, such as...

the "LAGG-41 - 0% = heavy stalling, dead spinning
- flammable cardboad box" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Maybe now people will quite whinning about the 190 and enjoy the game, but I wouldn't count on it.

-Clay

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 09:43 PM
Wouldn't it be easier just to release the patch?

S!
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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 09:55 PM
Here folks, Bogan translated it much better then i did...i am still LMAO!!!

"For your viewing pleasure (just envious for all those compliments to Ivan)

--------------------------------
ROSS_Youss wrote:

Last Three days of flying on patch gave me an unequivocal conclusion - none of the red plane 41-42 years can take on the blue plane in an in an equal fight (under condition of active use of a vertical maneuver (for Blue side - me ) ).


Except any case of absurdities and accidents (such as head-on, shooting from 600m and the German pilot hanging in stallfight )

1941 models - chance of a victory against 109E or 109F

Yak-1 - 5 % = stalling/spinning dumb-***
Yak-7b - 10 % = heavy stalling/spinning dumb-***
MiG-3 - 0 % = fast flying on a straight line Ransom lighter
LaGG-41 - 0 % = heavy, stalling/spinning Ransom lighter made out of cardboard
And - 16 - 5 % = heavily armed old weakling
And - 153 - 0 % = linen old weakling

Model 1942 - chance of a victory against 109F or 109G-2

Yak-1b - 40 % = the first chance of the VVS
Yak-9 - 30 % = the second try - no cigar
La-5 - 25 % = dim-plexiglased misunderstanding
P-39N - 40 % = the second chance from Uncle Sam

Model 1943 - chance of a victory against 109G or 190A-4

La-5F - 50 % = the first equal fighter for the VVS
Yak-9D - 40 % = heavy replacement for Yak-1b
La-5FN - 60 % = the improved version of the first fighter
Yak-9T - 25 % = let me catch up and I will shoot
LaGG-43 - 55% = a refutation of a rule " the good plane could not be named LaGG"

Did not have time to fly on-line. Flu against JG51, JG27, SLI.

I-153 and I-16 climb rate was cut almost twofold. For early Yaks to get to more 400km/h - it is problematic - unless in dive... Red plane of 41-42 spin/stall at the slightest pretext... Yaks break in a dive at 650km/h... Bf109F-4 and G-2 - like Mercedes - press the gas pedal and you are departing into space.
I have no clue what VVS is going to do in 41-42.

--------------------------------
Fabel wrote:

IL-2 scatters from 2 rounds of MK-108...
But Cobra can happily withstand same 2 rounds in the same wings.
--------------------------------
ROSS_Youss was using some slang, so I tried to keep the spirit....

AKA_Bogun"

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
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"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 10:01 PM
- ROSS_Youss wrote:
-
- I have no clue what VVS is going to do in 41-42.

Die.

Simple as that /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 10:15 PM
The patch looks very interesting even if I mostly fly VVS !
Any indication on changes to CEM at all ?

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 10:17 PM
AHHHH! I LOVE IT!

It sounds like the patch might inject a dose of reality into this game! I will fly my 109 with glee knowing that the mystical UFO magic has been taken from the VVS planes. Hell, my 7.62 rounds might even be modelled correctly and actually inflict damage!

What vindication! Those Yak drivers who gloat on and on about their ace status might actually have to learn how to recover from a spin!

And it will be open season while they are learning! :> :>

Col. Tibbetts

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 10:21 PM
A couple things I don't understand, why does Yak-1B have a better chance than the Yak-9, they were very similar. And why does the Yak-9D have a better chance than the Yak-9, the Yak-9 was better IMHO, the "D" just added fuel and range. Also, Yak-9T performs almost the same as Yak-9D and 1B, so why less of a chance? I thought the Yak-9, 9D, 1B, and 9T all performed about the same.

And I agree with CDHT, I hope the Yak-9 is brought up to speed and the 9U is improved and overshadows/compares with the Yak-3. I kinda fell out of love with the Yaks due to their wooden construction, but the 9U changes that, and I would love to master that plane, a true BnZ plane for the VVS.


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For the love of God! Release the patch already!

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 10:21 PM
It doesn't bother youthat it's not realistic though? Show me where it's written that the Yak stalled easy, or couldn't go over 400 km/h.

If the patch turns out this way. It's bull$hit. The Russians will be easy targets. No challenge at all.

btw. The 109 will become the noob plane. Ever thought of that?

Da Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 10:25 PM
If you are german pilot in 1941 and can't win pre-patch now then you aren't flying right http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 10:27 PM
I agree Recon. Why make it more lopsided. They know they had the edge already. Why cry for more. I don't think they like fair fights.

Da Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 10:41 PM
HA HA! I'm just saying that some VVS planes were dumbed down in FB as compared to IL2. (Some LW planes were dumbed down as well so don't get in a tizzy!) Remember how the P-39 used to spin when you just looked at the stick! It even said it had vicious spin characteristics in the object description. Well I can yank and bank all I want in an FB P-39 and not worry at all.

There is such a phenomenon as an accellerated stall. It will happen at any speed to any wing when the angle of attack becomes to great. All I am saying is that most VVS planes seldom follow this aerodynamical principal in FB. The patch seems to fix that.

I personally do not have any hard data about VVS planes to back this up. However, I believe that Oleg has put more time and energy into aquiring such data than any of us combined. So if he codes the patch along the lines mentioned then I can only assume that the planes are as close to reality as possible. It may take more than one patch to get there but I can wait. IL2 took three or four patches, didn't it?

Col. Tibbetts

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 10:43 PM
Buzz, who are you referring to?

I hope this patch is not overdone, as many people forget that low altitude was the Yaks domain. It should be able to combat LW planes down low with efficiency. The Yak-1B and Yak-9 were great low altitude fighters. They just were not that great up high and didn't have much range, which are not really factors in FB. Like I said in another post, I would like to see the Yak, along with FW-190, Macchi-202, and I-16 take damage normally. I would also like to see the Yaks burn a little more energy in hard maneuvers. But I would really like to see the 109 be harder to fly. The way that it is so tame and forgiving is just as big of a joke as the other problems mentioned. Many pilots were killed just trying to land/takeoff in the 109, whereas Yaks and 190's were praised for their ease of handling. The 109 was known to be very hard to pull out of a dive, and to yaw to the side badly in a dive as well, making gunnery difficult. Stuff like this just doesn't get mentioned frequently here because this is a goose-stepping forum for the most part. I agree that IL-2 was much worse than FB, but lets not get carried away. You guys crack me up, you constantly say that "noobs" fly VVS planes yet it is clear that all you want is a bunch of target drones limping and lumbering clumsily about the skies for your shooting pleasure. Damn, you guys are going to make me go back to VVS out of principle. Yes the game has problems, but it is not always one-sided as many of you believe.

http://www.globalaging.org/health/world/hongo.jpg


For the love of God! Release the patch already!

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 10:53 PM
Noobs fly russian planes....



Noobs fly german planes....



But so do good pilots. A good pilot is dangerous no matter what he is in.

--NJG26_Killa--

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ZG77_Nagual
07-08-2003, 10:59 PM
hmm.. this thread has brought up and interesting possibility for forming yet another IL2/FB subculture:

'Pre-Patch future Patch Whiners Based on Translations'

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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 11:00 PM
I think this n00bs theory is getting old /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
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"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 11:03 PM
kyrule2

I was talking to Tibbbits.

Da Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 11:08 PM
StG77_Kondor wrote:
-- ROSS_Youss wrote:
--
-- I have no clue what VVS is going to do in 41-42.
-
- Die.
-
- Simple as that.

Not by your hand, that's for sure.

Unless your sig is wrong that is.

Stuka still is a death trap.

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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 11:09 PM
"fair" play or realism? Take your pick, you can´t have both in this sim.

Realism is my choice, so what if the LW has the upper hand the first two years? Maybe because THEY DID! lol

You won´t see me whining when I have to fly a 1945 mission against uber La7´s.

I speak for myself, not the other 10000000000 luftwhiners /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 11:16 PM
Pretty soon we will have this baby to do some luftwhiner hunting.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/michael.walters3/Ed-Stuff/Spit22-1.jpg


I can hear the crying already.

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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 11:21 PM
StG77_Kondor

I don't care who has the advantage. I just want all the FM's accurate. It doesn't sound like the Yak is that accurate. I won't be flying any Yaks anyway, but I still want all planes to be as they should be. A Yak that stalls at the touch of the stick sounds wrong. As does not going 400 km/h. Even the slowest of Yaks will go faster than that.

I hate to think what happened to the Hurricane, because I do have to fly that bird. That's all my squad flys../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Da Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 11:24 PM
test 05 showed a friend of mine that all guns are stronger

takeoff takes longer

Mk 108 is awesome

sound is like a whole new game

Hurricane stalled ( a little excessivly in my view ... was a low , hard to stall A/C )

when we get the SPITFIRE i & my wingmate will hunt regular BF 109 pilots EXCLUSIVLY for the first two weeks

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 11:25 PM
Buzz, from what i know Yak`s were easy to stall in build5 or something like that, same with Hurricane... Belive me, if there was something wrong with Yaks, we would hear about it LOL.

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 11:27 PM
Sounds like they porked the Hurricane too.

Da Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 11:33 PM
But don`t you agree that 1939 plane should fly like 1939 plane? I don`t feel like whining about it, but don`t you think that hurries a bit too much?

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 11:40 PM
Why are you so annoyed Buzz when you hear `41 VVS can`t do nothing against LW?

No challenge?If in `41 and `42 VVS were nothin` but targets then it is best to be modelled in the game.

You want a challenge Buzz?Return to IL2 then.

"degustibus non disputandum"

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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 11:45 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
- Stuka still is a death trap.

Not this again.

Listen, the Stuka is a marvelous airplane, the best sole ground attack plane the LW has (excluding the Fw190).

I wonder how many "brave" and "honorable" fighter jocks like yourself would glady strap themselves to a bomber and do some ground pounding.

Ask CrazyIvan, he´s flown up against our formations several times.

Would like to see you try /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 11:47 PM
It's a onesided view in the Russian forum ... there is no need to start whining before the patch is out.

-------------------
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"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 11:53 PM
Exactly

I only got to play the 3rd build I think it was.

Everything seemed more or less the same except for the early VVS planes getting toned down, and same with the
AI too.

I doubt the Yak will have trouble getting past 400kph. What probably happened was that the CEM changed and they haven´t found its optimum level yet.

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</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
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When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

Message Edited on 07/08/0306:54PM by StG77_Kondor

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 12:09 AM
Probably just jealous of our bombersuits /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

</center>http://mywebpages.comcast.net/stg77kondor/pics/fritzxpilot.jpg

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</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
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When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 12:10 AM
StG77_Kondor wrote:
- Would like to see you try

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Me too.

http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/screenshots/stg77_00002.JPG


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XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 12:17 AM
carguy,

I already said, I don't care if the Germans had the advantage. I just want all the FM's accurate. From what I hear so far. It sounds like Oleg has given into the luftwhiners.

After all those patches in IL2. How could the Russian planes been so far off? Now with FB the Russian planes are still wrong? Why should I trust that this patch will make them right?

I'll just fly German if they're to porked. Everybody can fly German. Won't that be fun?

Da Buzz
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<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/kozedub3.jpg

<center.
http://perso.wanadoo.es/francesclleonsi/corsair2SKY.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 12:27 AM
From what you hear though m8.

Lets just wait for the patch, before we already start judging it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

BTW, its not like thats the situation with the russian planes now /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif , they´re all uber.

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</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
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When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 12:38 AM
Pretty much all the planes need tweaking. I know the German planes should have the edge, but lets not go to far with it. We still want a fair fight. At least I do anyway.

Da Buzz
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<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/kozedub3.jpg

<center.
http://perso.wanadoo.es/francesclleonsi/corsair2SKY.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 01:03 AM
I flew version 5 and the guns were not any more powerful IMHO, excluding the MK-108 which was killer. Small caliber mg's still did nothing to alot of planes. And the Yaks were still damn good in my version, they were a little harder to fly but then again so were all planes, I loved it. You had to concentrate a little more, yanking the stick around would stall any plane, even the Hurricane.

Buzz, I think the Hurricane will be modelled well. That is good for the game, but I'm not sure how good it will be for those flying them. What RAF squadron did you join? If I ever joined a squadron it would definitely be an RAF one as my favorite planes are the Spitfire and Typhoon/Tempest. Let me know how your experience with a squad goes, I would be very interested to hear what it is like.

http://www.globalaging.org/health/world/hongo.jpg


For the love of God! Release the patch already!

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 01:10 AM
BuzzU wrote:
- carguy,
-
- I already said, I don't care if the Germans had
- the advantage. I just want all the FM's accurate.
- From what I hear so far. It sounds like Oleg has
- given into the luftwhiners.


Well, you shouldn't take everything Youss says very seriously. Look at the VOW forums and his writings in there. In his opinion there is always bias for the blue side.

Simply what he wrote isn't true. Very one sided.


-jippo

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 01:21 AM
carguy_ wrote:
- No challenge?If in `41 and `42 VVS were nothin` but
- targets then it is best to be modelled in the game.

Hey, this is great news!

Now when I get blown outta the sky, I'll get to make some profound statements such as "Ah, history cannot be denied!"

Then maybe no one will notice I can't fly for squat!

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 04:51 AM
remember WHO is toning down the russian planes. a RUSSIAN. oleg will not bow down to a few gamers and make vvs planes sucky to help them . he will modify planes to make them more realistically accurate for himself . so he knows his game is better. and early years russian planes werent as good as russian. they Did catch up but it took years and those chaikas and ratas shouldnt be able to get up to the altitudes the 109s can...not like they do now. oleg is making it more real. like everyone always wants. well real WILL unbalance the early years. so what. at least it wont be a joke. also the hurri with hispanos is tough now. i can fly it online against 2 K4s and they cant touch me..split S all day long and never lose much energy in hurri. climbs super too. hurri is overmodelled. take any two top online aces in k4 vs an online ace in hurri and hurri wont die. THATS unrealistic. sure the hurri wont be able to kill them he will be on defensive but it proves my point . hurri needs to stall once in a while. it doesnt now.

Right about now your thinking to yourself IS he an Ace or isnt he an Ace? well you just gotta ask yourself one question...do ya feel lucky? ...well do ya... PUNK ??? www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the Real Aces

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 05:18 AM
Im just hoping they make the AI realistic, I hate the way the AI are perfect flyers, never stalling or anything, even in the worst planes, they still fly like aces most of them.

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 06:02 AM
The funny thing is, that i just switched from an OKL squad (17th VFW Lightning Dragons, with =LD= tag) to a VVS one (249th IAP) and im still very happy to read this. I think VVS-whiners indicates that this game is getting more balanced (not that i think that Oleg made the game unbalanced out of natiolism or anything). The reports of Russian planes standing no chance against German planes from the same year are probably a little exagerated though. But i really wouldn't mind if the Germans would have an advantage in the first years of the war. Even if that would mean getting our asses kicked in Iron Skies /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif .

Tonight i had an engagement with the JV44 flying 109s (E4 or F2, can't remember which), at an altitude of 5K. Me and VOL_Buto were flying I16's (type 24) loaded with rockets. We shot down three of them without taking losses, including Heiden, who can certainly hold his own in a 109! I'm not even a fighter pilot, i fly the IL2. It's crazy, the I-16 can almost keep up with the 109 at that altitude in both speed and climb rate. One error and the 109 is done for. And one round with those 20mm and the wing comes off!

Well, enough whining about how it is now. I'm really looking forward to the patch! Most probably won't be here before august, and maybe not even before September. But i have high hopes for this one. If it would even mean we could play online with more than 24 planes in total in the mission (sounds like a lot 24, but it isn't!!!) without them warping all over the place, not losing controls when a single .303 rounds hits, getting hit by naval AAA 20km out, ect. Then i think we have a winner on our hand, finally playing something that resembles a final version, not the early beta version we're playing now.

http://home.wanadoo.nl/h.delau/ironskies.gif (http://www.ironskies.net/)

Soundtech AKA =LD=Jag

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 06:57 AM
I think youss exaggarated.
In test05 the russkies were still good, just not magically so.
I-16 and LaGG-3 still were immune to 7.92mm, but 13mm MG's ripped wings off hurricanes and generally wreaked havoc.
Mk108 was MUCH more accurate, and 1-2 hits to bomber wings with high deflection --> instant snap. One could shoot deflection shots at TB-3's from 300 meters with 108 and hit quite easily, since the spread was much tighter.
AI seemed to stall and spin a lot. Spins looked more realistic. Did not have a chance to test the AB250 bomb online, but did try F4 against all hurricanes... the hurris never had a chance, except in headons (and even those seemed easier, AI wasn't so much sniper any more).
All this subjective and based on short testing period.

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veiting foor p¤ts

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 09:10 AM
StG77_Fritz_X wrote:
-
- StG77_Kondor wrote:
-- Would like to see you try

http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/screenshots/stg77_00002.JPG


- Me too.

What an ugly screenshot.

And I am not afraid of bomber formations, and the Stuka the least.
It's flamable and flimsy.

And the sniper gunners are fixed in the 1.1 patch so no worries.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/images/322.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 09:19 AM
Werre_ wrote:
- but did try F4 against all
- hurricanes... the hurris never had a chance, except
- in headons (and even those seemed easier, AI wasn't
- so much sniper any more).
- All this subjective and based on short testing
- period.

All Hurricanes don't have a change against the F4 now when flown correctly.
I can take on 8 Ace Hurricane MKII Field Mod by myself in the F4 and don't even have to try hard to shoot em all down.

The other way around however is a different story, I done it many times with mixed succes.

I do agree that the Hurricane has a bit odd climb rate but it's still a joke compared against the German counterparts.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/images/322.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 10:26 AM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
-
- I do agree that the Hurricane has a bit odd climb
- rate but it's still a joke compared against the
- German counterparts.


Isn't Hurri's counterpart Emil, not Friedrich? F is in the timeperiod of Spit V when Hurri was already outclassed.

Don't you find it as well odd with the Hurri, that it never overheats, never blows engine (even if you go over the 3000rpm redline by 2000rpm!), it dives just as good as any other plane (despite it's thick wings), and it can keep turning effortlessly 85 degree angle stick pulled as far back as possible?


Hurri was a 'joke' against Brewster in RL, Friedrich is from different planet.



-jippo

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 10:44 AM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
-
- StG77_Fritz_X wrote:
--
-- StG77_Kondor wrote:
--- Would like to see you try
-
<img
- src="http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/screensh
- ots/stg77_00002.JPG">
-
-
-- Me too.
-
- What an ugly screenshot.
-
- And I am not afraid of bomber formations, and the
- Stuka the least.
- It's flamable and flimsy.
-


Then you obviously haven't flown with StG77 a lot. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<center>
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</center>

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 10:55 AM
Does that really matter Red Storm?

The Stuka was helpless without fighter support, if it's different in FB then the Stuka is not correctly modelled, simple as that.

Besides, the only real punch on it when it comes to ward off fighters is the one with the dual machine gun in the rear, other then that it has only 2 peanut shooters unless you count the AT version.

During BoB the Stuka was withdrawn from combat because it was not able to survive in all that mayhem, so why should it be any different in FB?

Even the Germans saw that the Stuka was only doing well when they commanded the air, if it was challenged or they lost command of the air the Stuka was easy meat.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/images/322.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 11:01 AM
Rudel wasn't helpless..


<center><img scr="http://www.angelfire.com/pe2/gryphon/tiger_s.jpg"></center>

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XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 11:04 AM
I would hate to see the Dora become an easy plane to fly. It badly needs performance boosting but that doesn't have to mean it has to be easy to fly. So as long as the learnig curve for the 190 remains high I'm ok.

http://members.chello.se/unni/Ta152C.jpg

The Ta 152C

'When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!'

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 11:09 AM
"So as long as the learnig curve for the 190 remains high I'm ok. "

Me too! I don't want an ueber 190, I just want an accurate one!

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 11:21 AM
TiGeR----- wrote:
- Rudel wasn't helpless..

If they model each plane to what the best pilot who flew it then this game would be more like Crimson Skies.

You guys all scream historical correctness in this game but once there is a LW plane in the spotlights you come up with lame responses like "Rudel wasn't helpless".

So if we go in that field then we can also say this right?

"Douglas Bader did very well in his Hurricane so it should be modelled correct in FB right?"

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/images/322.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 11:23 AM
Hey ivan check out this transaltion! lmfao! lol /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


Three the day of flights on patche for me they gave single-valued conclusion - niodin the red aircraft of 41-42 years it cannot on the equal fight with the dark-blue (with the condition for the active use of a vertical line).

Excluding everyone absurdity and chance (of type of frontal, shooting with 600m the German povevshegosya into stallfayt)

model 1941 - chance to victory against to mass, mass- F

Yak-1 - 5% = the spinning brake
Yak-7B - 10% = the heavy spinning brake
Moments - 0% = the rapidly flying along the straight line cigarette lighter
Lagg-yay - 0% = the heavy pasteboard spinning cigarette lighter
I -16 - 5% = the khoroshovooruzhennaya senile sickness
I -153 - 0% = the linen senile sickness

model 1942 - chance to the victory mass- F, the masses -G2

Yak-1B - 40% = the first chance VVS
Yak-9 - 30% = the second pancake - by the lump
Caress - 25% = the mutnoplestiglasovoye misunderstanding
R -39N - 40% = the second chance from uncle sem

model 1943 - chance to the victory mass- G, the foresail -A4

La -5F - 50% = the first equal soldier from VVS
Yak-9D - 40% = heavy replacement Yak-1B
La -5FN - 60% = the uluchshenaya version of the first soldier.
Yak-9T - 25% = "give to overtake and I fire a shot"
Lagg-yae - 55% = the refutation of rule "a good aircraft log will not be named"

It is further they did not have time to fly away in online. It flew against JG51, JG27, SLI.

To seagulls and to asses vertical line was cut almost doubly...
Early yaks to drive away are more than 400 - it is problematic - perhaps that from the dive...
Red 41-42 spin on any occasion...
Yaks they break on the dive beginning from 650 km/h...
Masses Fya and G2 - as the Mercedes - gave gas and flew away into space.

That VVS will make into 41-42 - I will not apply mind.

Translation source: World Lingo.
lol this just cracks me up. lol

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XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 11:46 AM
this is almost a funny: from the same thread>

"Personally I hope that this there will be last "cardinal" patch. A it is further finally it will begin small the finishing- grinding on the trifles, as it was with the original Il-2. So that to cry still early. But as I will fly at the masses, knowing that it in everything exceeds the surrounding midges... I do not represent. I will sit down on Brewster. Its- that although they did not touch in patche?"

so basicaly this guy is saying he going to start flying the brewster, seems to be the only thing that they didn't monkey around with.

Altho i'm very worried about what they may have doen with the DM for the IL-2. has been one of my favorite planes to fly since i bought the 1st game. I can remember how the 1st patch in IL-2 totaly screw'd the FM in the IL-2.
after 1.1 the il-2 flew like my grand mothers 79 ford pinto station wagon. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

this is my favorite plane to fly just for fun in coops,
And now they're messing around with the DM?!? it was called the flying tank for a reason you know.....i'm just saying.



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XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 12:02 PM
Note the use of the phrase "on condition blue uses the vertical." So, in the average DF VVS still has a great chance /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I'm in a VVS squad, but I'd like the patch to be accurate. At the moment I'm generally flying the 190A in DFs, as it's a real challenge. Actually, it's a real joke. I'll let you know when I meet a Russian plane I can outrun. Couldn't lose a Rata in a dive the other night. But the prize goes to the Hurri 2 (now I don't really mind it's stall characteristics and hope they don't do a hatchet job on that, making it a nightmare to fly, although maybe a little more likely to stall would be in order).

Dived on a Hurri from 2 km, as I passed, at about 500 m alt, I saw he was inverted, pulling over the top of a loop (so 240 kph max?). I noted I was doing 570 (speedbar). Obviously I missed him. No problem, I'll just zoom up and away. When the speed has decayed to 330 (about best climb for 190, I think) I'm passing 1550 m and start to level off. I look behind and there's the Hurri climbing up behind me at about 400 m (no icons). Bizarre, I think, still, when I level off I'll soon lose him. Hmmm not so as you'd notice. In fact he must be closing, certainly looks like it and now I see tracer coming past. OK, time to stop messing around. WEP on, nose down, lets run away. Having dived 1500 m or more, and levelled off on the deck he must still be there, because I blow up in a hail of 20 mm rounds.

By the time we reach the deck I think I should be out of sight. Well, out of range at least.

Currently too many VVS planes can do everything - turn, climb, run - as well or better than the 190A and maybe even some of the contemporary 109s. I know the first law of flight sims is there shall always be 190 whiners, but I really hope the patch makes the 190 a viable choice. You won't stop all the whining, but at least VVS (& thinking LW [is that an oxymoron? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ]) pilots will stop complaining about the 190 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Looking forward to being able to fly VVS fighters again.



Message Edited on 07/09/03 11:09AM by Kernow

Message Edited on 07/09/0311:10AM by Kernow

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 12:10 PM
Good post Kernow

I too would like to see some LW types "curbed" (speaking from the other side) like the obviously overmodelled Emil climbrate /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif and the FW190 A9 which is too fast at 6000M .I also believe the 'relaxed' High AOA/Stall FM of all aircraft (IMHO - compared to IL-2) has made many of the aircraft much easier to fly and fight with.

A proper high-alt flight model would finish it off nicely as this is what is really missing in FB /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif - Any news on that Ivan?

JG5_UnKle

"Know and use all the capabilities of your airplane. If you don't sooner or later, somebody who does, will kick your ***"


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XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 12:16 PM
" would hate to see the Dora become an easy plane to fly. It badly needs performance boosting but that doesn't have to mean it has to be easy to fly. So as long as the learnig curve for the 190 remains high I'm ok"

According to history the 190 was 'easier' to fly - isn't that correct?

S!
609IAP_Recon

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XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 12:39 PM
Recon_609IAP wrote:
- According to history the 190 was 'easier' to fly -
- isn't that correct?
-
- S!

For sure, it was easier to fly than the 109, but the current FB 109 is VERY easy to fly. IMO it should be harder to fly it. In RL the 190 was easy to fly mostly because of the control harmony, which was good for the newcomers. Due to the highspeed stalls and its fairly poor low speed turning ability, it can prove a handfull for most beginners. Am I making any sense?/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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'When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!'

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 03:45 PM
Cappadocian_317,

Why do you find it necesary to slander the Stuka? So what if thats what happened in real life, you also overlook the many successes it had before BoB and AFTERWARDS in the eastern front.

Can´t wait ´till they neuter your over-modelled hurricane.

ANY bomber in real life, without fighter support is an easy target. Applies for the Stuka, He111, B-17, B-24, Ju88, ALL the bombers during WWII.

You should just pay tribute for ANY bomber pilot you see online or wherever. They are the ones contributing to the war effort, they are the ones hitting the ground targets and helping move the frontlines. Not you sitting high above and eating a sandwich.

Why is the screenshot ugly??? Can´t you with your uber fighter-pilot skills fly a formation? Naa, didn´t think so.

I still think you´re jealous of our bombersuits.



-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 04:12 PM
I don't fly the Hurricane, stop your assuming about things you know nothing about.

You clearly pointed out that you can take on fighters in your Stuka and I reply that that's bollocks and if the Stuka could win air to air fights easy against fighter planes in FB it's not correctly modelled.

It is a good dive bomber and that's it, other then that it's slow and weak.
Just hope you get to the target in one piece and drop your bombs and get the hell out of there ASAP.
This is a well known fact and you see it as slandering the Stuka?
What a joke.

As for the screenshot, it's ugly because of the jaggy lines and the colors.
Ugly means it looks crappy, not what it's about or is that too difficult for you to understand.





<center> http://www.322squadron.com/images/322.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 04:17 PM
StG77_Kondor wrote:
- You should just pay tribute for ANY bomber pilot you
- see online or wherever. They are the ones
- contributing to the war effort, they are the ones
- hitting the ground targets and helping move the
- frontlines. Not you sitting high above and eating a
- sandwich.

This deserves a new post because this is the biggest bull I ever read.
Moving the frontlines is a JOINED effort of both bombers, fighters and most of all the ground forces.

Basicly the ground forces move the frontline, the bombers assist the ground forces and the fighters cover the bombers and trying to win over the air above and around the battlefield.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/images/322.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 04:26 PM
LOL

This is getting funnier every time I read it.

I NEVER said the Stuka could beat a fighter 1 vs 1.

All I said that a Stuka formation, if flown properly could hold its own against enemy fighters.

And for the front lines thing, ofcourse its a joined effort, thats what I am saying. Its just you needing to cut some slack to the bomber pilots thats all /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 04:34 PM
It has a better change in a well flown formation but nothing more, it will never be able to fend off fighters that attack the formation correctly and not park on the formations six and start shooting like most people do.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/images/322.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 04:35 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- Pretty much all the planes need tweaking. I know the
- German planes should have the edge, but lets not go
- to far with it. We still want a fair fight. At least
- I do anyway.
-
- Da Buzz

Well Buzz I think they should go as far as historical and FM accuracy will take them. And that would mean that the LW would have more than just an "edge" in early war scenarios. The LW hacked I-16s, I-153s, MiG-3s, LaGGs and even Sturmoviks out of the sky early on. The Ratas and Tchaikas were outdated. The MiG and LaGG, though more modern, were not up to the level of the 109s. And even though Sturmoviks were tough they were probably shot down in greater numbers than any other VVS a/c. So it wasn't a fair fight.

And as far as the Hurri being porked, by the time the Russians were being outfitted with it they concidered it to be inferior to their domestic a/c. Some units thought they were being punished by being outfitted with the Hurri.

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 04:36 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:

- You clearly pointed out that you can take on
- fighters in your Stuka and I reply that that's
- bollocks and if the Stuka could win air to air
- fights easy against fighter planes in FB it's not
- correctly modelled.

It is not easy, but I have scored now 6 kills flying Stuka in VOW (beta 1+2). 3 Il-2's, P-40, Yak-9 and La-5FN. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif All the fighters were piloted by humans.

I think we should change Stuka modelling. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


-jippo

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 04:37 PM
Good job at pointing out the obvious /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Every bomber is vulnerable from various angles /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

Just be more carefull on what you say about one plane. Especially if that plane is my stuka, and especially if you haven´t flown against our formation /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 04:44 PM
I don't have time right now, but i'll get a bunch of quotes from the German brass. In 42 the german planes had an edge on the Russian planes, EXCEPT for the Yak1/1b,which was more than a match for them.

If you pork the Yak like i'm reading about the patch.Then it's just plain wrong.

Da Buzz
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



<center.
http://perso.wanadoo.es/francesclleonsi/corsair2SKY.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 04:51 PM
BuzzU wrote:


Don't you think "more than a match" is an overstatement considering that it was slower than G-2 and climbed much worse?


-jippo

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 05:06 PM
I'm talking up to the F4. I know the G2 is a 42 plane, but it was later in the year. I'm quoting from Black Cross Red Star, and it only goes to June 42 (vol2).

Da Buzz
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



<center.
http://perso.wanadoo.es/francesclleonsi/corsair2SKY.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 05:06 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- I don't have time right now, but i'll get a bunch of
- quotes from the German brass. In 42 the german
- planes had an edge on the Russian planes, EXCEPT for
- the Yak1/1b,which was more than a match for them.
-
- If you pork the Yak like i'm reading about the
- patch.Then it's just plain wrong.
-
-
- Da Buzz

Yes, Buzz is right here. The Yak-1s were concidered the first true matches to the 109s by both Russian AND LW pilots. The first encounters with Yaks by the LW (July 1, '41 with 401st IAP at the Berezina-Dnieper front according to Black Cross/Red Star) were a rude awakening after the easy kill fests they had been used to until that point

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 05:13 PM
Ok.

But I say it again, don't worry too much about Yak performance. Youss has a certain, hhmmm, "style" of saying things. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif It is something that shouldn't be taken quite literally. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


-jippo

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 05:23 PM
Jippo01

I just want it to stay real. I think the Yak1's are a good match with early 109's right now. As it was in RL. I hate to see that change. Everybody will just lose interest in early servers if that happens. Tone down the 1-16/52 and Hurri, but I think the Yaks are fine. I haven't heard anybody say the Yak1 was uber. The F4 still has an edge right now. The F4 climbs way better than it should right now.

Climb to 4000m

F4.......3.32 min/sec
G2.......3.49
G6a/s....3.48

Da Buzz
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



<center.
http://perso.wanadoo.es/francesclleonsi/corsair2SKY.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 05:24 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:

- You clearly pointed out that you can take on
- fighters in your Stuka

Would you please quote where he "clearly" posted that?

Cappadocian_317 wrote:
- that's bollocks

You are clearly bollocks; See above. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


Cappadocian_317 wrote:
- It is a good dive bomber and that's it, other then
- that it's slow and weak.
- Just hope you get to the target in one piece and
- drop your bombs and get the hell out of there ASAP.

SO WHAT it is slow and weak?
SO WHAT to get the hell out of the target area?

It takes more courage to fly online in a Ju-87 than a La-7 or P-47 orso now doesnt it?
We are not all fighter heros in high performance, fast, heavily armed and armored Uber aircraft.
Its that simple: You dont seem to understand people might have a different opinion than yours about their favorite aircraft.

Honestly; I think you dont like the Stuka because you cant stand losing/getting shot down. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

As for your "slandering" the Stuka and people who fly them:
You just fly your high performance fighter, let us fly our crappy Stukas. Everybody happy.

The screenshot might not have been made with the best 3D card but you "get the picture". Ofcourse you dont have anything to say about the formation flying, but I bet you wouldnt call us vulnerable if you have 12 MG's pointed at you.

PS: About the tailgunner: I bet you hope for "never hitting AI gunners" but I usualy man the guns myself and shoot you quiet as happily before or after the patch. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif





<marquee>
************ Stukageschwader 77 : Soon coming to an airbase near you. http://www.stg-77.net ************ </marquee>

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 05:25 PM
lol Buzz

I can do it at almost half that time.

Try using manual prop pitch, and watch those birds climb /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 05:34 PM
I always use manual pitch. I didn't do this test, but it does show the F4 being overmodeled.

Da Buzz
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



<center.
http://perso.wanadoo.es/francesclleonsi/corsair2SKY.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 05:36 PM
F4 is over-modelled, thats the truth.

And so is the I-16 and I-153.

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 05:43 PM
-
- Fabel wrote:
-
- IL-2 scatters from 2 rounds of MK-108...
- But Cobra can happily withstand same 2 rounds in the
- same wings.
---------------------------------

Guys, What Cobra is Fabel Referring to?

Sorry if its dumb questions..



Clear Skies and Tailwinds....

<center>BlueThunder-ProudBirds-VFW<center>
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<center><marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"The ProudBirds..Fly High and Proud..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> <center>
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XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 06:37 PM
p-39... aircobra

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 07:25 PM
StG77_Kondor wrote:
- Just be more carefull on what you say about one
- plane. Especially if that plane is my stuka, and
- especially if you haven´t flown against our
- formation.

Do you guys use Human gunners or the AI sniper gunners?

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/images/322.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 07:25 PM
climb for f4 is not overmodel

f2 climb 4,5min to 5000m with wep
2,7min 3000m with wep

f4 has 150ps more power by same weigh as f2

therefore f4 climb better as f2

g2 is undermodel at climb therefore climb f4 better

g2 need 5min to 5000m in fb
instead 4,1min without wep



BuzzU wrote:
- Jippo01
-
- I just want it to stay real. I think the Yak1's
- are a good match with early 109's right now. As it
- was in RL. I hate to see that change. Everybody will
- just lose interest in early servers if that happens.
- Tone down the 1-16/52 and Hurri, but I think the
- Yaks are fine. I haven't heard anybody say the Yak1
- was uber. The F4 still has an edge right now. The F4
- climbs way better than it should right now.
-
-
- Climb to 4000m
-
- F4.......3.32 min/sec
- G2.......3.49
- G6a/s....3.48
-
- Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-
-
- <center.
<img
- src="http://perso.wanadoo.es/francesclleonsi/corsa
- ir2SKY.gif">



Message Edited on 07/09/0309:50PM by Skalgrim

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 07:30 PM
We use both, we fly the plane and man our guns at the same time.

But sometimes we use the sniper gunners whenever we can tell there´s a whiner behind us.

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 07:50 PM
No worries then, after the patch the AI gunners are not snipers anymore.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/images/322.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 07:54 PM
Skalgrim

G6a/s is undermodeled too? I see alot of guys say it has best climb. Should F4 beat it?

Da Buzz
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



<center.
http://perso.wanadoo.es/francesclleonsi/corsair2SKY.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 07:56 PM
BuzzU

no she should not,
but the climb is to bad by you chart for g6/as


you climb

- Climb to 4000m
- F4.......3.32 min/sec
- G2.......3.49
- G6a/s....3.48



f2 climb 3,6min to 4000m in real
4,5min to 5000m same as la-7

f4 has 150ps more by same weigh,

so should she under 3,6min for 4000m need
and under 4,5min for 5000m

but the climb from g6/as 3.48 is to weak
she is better in fb

when i right remember 3,3min to 5000m


Message Edited on 07/10/0312:38AM by Skalgrim

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 01:16 AM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
- No worries then, after the patch the AI gunners are
- not snipers anymore.

Yes worries then;
We still have the human gunners.
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif





<marquee>
************ Stukageschwader 77 : Soon coming to an airbase near you. http://www.stg-77.net ************ </marquee>

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 09:20 AM
StG77_Fritz_X wrote:
- Yes worries then;
- We still have the human gunners.

Not really, if your now going to say your human gunners have the same hit % at odd angles as the sniper AI then I don't believe any of your claims ever again.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/images/322.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 09:54 AM
<center> >http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/post-2-1057826741.jpg

oh and while you stuka jocks have your head in the clouds...
this was a much better dive bomber that that sorry piece of crap you boys are flying.lol
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<CENTER> <FONT COLOR="RED"> Gibbage you rock Man!

Message Edited on 07/10/0303:56AM by Copperhead310th

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 02:12 PM
You might want to read this post Copperhead.

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zczpc

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

'Nuff said about tailgunners. (and this is even coming from someone that hardly flys a Stuka.) /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I bet you keep thinking the AI gunners are Uber as long as and every time you get shot down by them.
WHINER! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
.
What do you want to prove or achieve with it?
Outlaw the Stuka?
Remove the tailguns? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I still didnt see an answer yet where Kondor supposedly claimed that he could take on a fighter in a Ju-87.
Please quote that first to give yourself some credit instead of coming up with more bullcrap and personal attacks that make no sense at all.
Since you cant quote it - because its yet another piece of bullcrap - you better realize how stupid and unfounded your initial post was, as well as the follow ups. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Oh; And the time you took to make that picture and your attacks on the person instead of discussing a subject makes you a total jerk yourself, but I bet you dont realize that either.





<marquee>
************ Stukageschwader 77 : Soon coming to an airbase near you. http://www.stg-77.net ************ </marquee>

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 03:10 PM
The fact that you see it as a personal attack or me wanting to outlaw the stuka is actually enough said about your reading abilities since I never even remotely said anything about banning the Stuka.

And refering to a thread made by someone with some story on a dogfight server doesn't hold any water at all.

Everybody can make up a story like that over here since his story isn't backed up with any evidence what so ever.

And the tail gunners get me every once in a while now but they do have some really odd accuracy and I am not the only one who thinks this and if it was correct then Oleg would not make any effort to change it in the patch now would it?

I flew with the Test05 version and they are still dangerous but not unaturaly accurate like they are now.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/images/322.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 04:10 PM
LOL, thanks for the new wallpaper Copperhead.

I never said a Stuka stands a chance 1 vs 1 against a fighter, unless the fighter pilot is really stupid.

On the other hand, if I had a Ju87D-5, then I wouldn´t mind going up against fighters.

Then again, I doubt you even know the difference between a B-17 and the Ju87D-5...

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 04:15 PM
Im still waiting for him to quote where you "clearly" said you would take on fighters in a 87 BTW. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Talking about reading abilities. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


EDIT: He will use the post above because there is no other one!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


Message Edited on 07/10/0310:20AM by StG77_Fritz_X

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 04:25 PM
(grabs popcorn and pulls up a chair) FIGHT!!!FIGHT!!!FIGHT

"We make war that we may live in peace."

Aristotle

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 04:30 PM
Bring it on punk!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 04:37 PM
Actualy I think it is all pretty amusing. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I jokingly (including /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif -smiley) asked him the question if he possibly wanted to outlaw the Stuka or have the tailgunners removed and he took it serious. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

That in itself is funny but if you see what he posted in reply made me almost fall off my chair in laughter. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Talking about reading capabilities...again. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

This is getting too funny. Whats next??? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



Message Edited on 07/10/0310:43AM by StG77_Fritz_X

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 04:41 PM
This is some great comedy show now.



<center> http://www.322squadron.com/images/322.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 04:44 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
- This is some great comedy show now.

Yeah; And you are the star. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


<marquee>
************ Stukageschwader 77 : Soon coming to an airbase near you. http://www.stg-77.net ************ </marquee>

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 04:46 PM
So are you mate.

Your just too blind to see it with your own delusion of grandeur blocking your view.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/images/322.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 04:46 PM
Who´s gonna be the Co-star? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 04:48 PM
I was hoping for RayBanJockey to do that.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/images/322.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 04:52 PM
Thats the first good idea I´ve heard you say.

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 04:56 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
- I was hoping for RayBanJockey to do that.
-

At least RBJ isnt frustrated. (Well; Opinions on that might differ but OK) /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Can we quit now before this goes out of hand? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

... I still would like to see you quoting Kondor though.
Maybe you see how overreactive you are if you read back, but your reading capabilities... I guess I leave it up to the readers of this thread to take their conclusion out of it.

Like I said before: Let us just fly our crappy Stukas while you fly your heavily armed and armored P-47.
Everybody happy. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<marquee>
************ Stukageschwader 77 : Soon coming to an airbase near you. http://www.stg-77.net ************ </marquee>

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 05:01 PM
I don't like the P-47.

I am waiting for the Tempest to be flyable.

In the mean time I play Conquest America with the occasional Command & Conquer Generals for some mindless blowing up stuff.

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XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 05:02 PM
And when flying the Tempest I will wait to trade it for a Spitfire.

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XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 05:12 PM
I could have guessed that.
I suppose you wont fly the Boulton Paul Defiant, the Fairey Battle or Swordfish, Handley Page Hampden or Vickers Wellington if they become flyable.

We will.
Maybe you will escort us; We will need it just as much as we do now flying the Stuka. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

...Now wheres the quote demmit?

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XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 11:47 PM
Tell you what, i'll take an il2 series 1 , and you can take a stuka and we'll see which one comes out on top.
As for knowing any thing much about German aircraft...
we'll your probably right. i know really all i need to about the stuka and that's how to shoot em' down. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
and sorry but there's not a german bomber around that could equal the B-17 Flying Fortress. lol and any sugestion that there was is compleatly absurd.

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