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View Full Version : Microsoft lawsuit ok'd for crappy game...Watch out Ubi!



bear2716
11-29-2007, 12:24 PM
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071128-microsoft...tibility-issues.html (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071128-microsoft-hit-for-5-million-dollar-lawsuit-over-halo-3-compatibility-issues.html)

The Bungie-developed Halo 3 is designed to be hand-in-glove compatible with the Xbox 360, right? A federal lawsuit filed against Microsoft and Bungie last week attempts to throw some serious doubt into the mix. The suit alleges that Halo 3 "routinely, consistently, and systematically 'froze,' 'crashed,' or 'locked up.'" The suit then claims that these issues "disrupted game play," which, if these issues are as terrible or widespread as the suit alleges, is an understatement. The plaintiff, Randy Nunez, is seeking seeking class-action status along with $5 million in damages plus costs and attorneys' fees.

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The suit claims that "many consumers" have these issues, making their console "totally inoperable." The court papers cite "industry Internet web sites, weblogs, and message boards" to prove that this issue is a common one. It also alleges that Microsoft and Bungie have "received numerous complaints" from consumers on their phone lines and service forums without admitting these alleged Halo 3 issues to the public.

It's no secret that Microsoft has had trouble with the reliability of the Xbox 360 system. The company has increased the length of its warranty multiple times, and the "red ring of death" has become something of an ongoing industry joke. Robbie Bach, the president of Microsoft's entertainment and devices division, has gone on record as saying that "the number of repairs to Xbox 360 consoles have been unacceptable to us." He went on to cite "general hardware failures" for these issues.

Microsoft announced a $1 billion initiative to repair defective systems and to increase the warranty of the units to three years. While newer systems are expected to have better reliability, they have yet to be on the market long enough to tell if the hardware issues have been resolved, and, with many older units still in the hands of gamers, complaints about system death and issues are common.

While the Xbox 360 has a checkered past when it comes to hardware reliability, Microsoft has admitted the issues and paid dearly to fix them; a class-action lawsuit asking for restitution over failed hardware doesn't seem warranted as Microsoft has already put measures in place to replace faulty systems. It's possible that by alleging a specific"”and incredibly popular"”piece of software also causes the issue the plaintiff can say that Microsoft and Bungie haven't adequately dealt with the problems of the hardware and software combination.

Since Xbox 360 hardware issues are so widespread and Halo 3 sold in such huge numbers, as the suit points out, it's relatively easy to point to many pieces of anecdotal evidence of gamers having hardware issues as they play Halo 3 for hours on end. Having played many, many hours of Halo myself and having had multiple systems die on me since launch, I can say that while I share the frustration of suffering through system failures, I have yet to see or hear about a strong link between the Halo 3 software and hardware issues.

Microsoft did not immediately respond to our requests for comment.

BTOG46
11-29-2007, 01:04 PM
It's a bit overkill to post the link and then copy and paste the whole article as well.
I hope that that guy hasn't picked Jack Thompson as his lawyer. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

chickmgnt222
11-29-2007, 01:18 PM
Having played many, many hours of Halo myself and having had multiple systems die on me since launch, I can say that while I share the frustration of suffering through system failures, I have yet to see or hear about a strong link between the Halo 3 software and hardware issues.

That says it all. The most M$ would have to do is replace the 360s/games of the ones that got messed up. Other than that, many people play it just fine so there is no definitive evidence to show Halo 3 did anything. It's all circumstantial.

I bet the lawyer that took the case is just hoping M$ blindly settles to keep it out of court. Only the lawyer benefits in cases like these.

Pr0metheus 1962
11-29-2007, 02:49 PM
The first thing that will happen is that MS's lawyers will get a lab to examine the Xboxes in question. Then they'll find that there's dirt on the laser heads, then the case will be thrown out, and rightly so.

People need to realise that DVD players need maintenance. Laser heads need cleaning about once a month, minimally. People shouldn't just expect that an Xbox DVD reader will work perfectly for months without having a minimal level of upkeep. I'll bet half of these folks who are complaining about Xbox games freezing, crashing and locking up don't even own a DVD head cleaner, while the rest have one but they used it once and then lost it.

Now don't get me wrong - Halo 3 is a horribly mediocre game, but (sadly) you can't file a lawsuit because a game is not fun. Also, the Xbox does have a lot of hardware failures, which should legitimately be lawsuit fodder. But it seems to me this type of issue (games freezing, crashing and locking up) is most likely caused by user error.

Mark903
11-29-2007, 03:12 PM
Sorry...But...Someone know if they're doing AC for Mac???

katz_bg
11-29-2007, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by Mark903:
Sorry...But...Someone know if they're doing AC for Mac??? not announced. sorry.

anyway these days we see absolutely rediculous law suits for completely unreasonable ammounts and I wouldn't be surprized if the judge is incompitent in the field and has M$ pay $5mil to a guy who spent less than $500 on their prodcts

Faylinks
11-29-2007, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Mark903:
Sorry...But...Someone know if they're doing AC for Mac???

Can somone sue ubisoft for the glitches in AC? :-D jk

and btw, just get PC on your mac, if you have a mac that can run AC(system requirements) its probably has an intel chip, so you can have both mac and PC on the same compter (MAC FANBOY YAY)

SplinterCell_37
11-30-2007, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by chickmgnt222:
That says it all. The most M$ would have to do is replace the 360s/games of the ones that got messed up. Other than that, many people play it just fine so there is no definitive evidence to show Halo 3 did anything. It's all circumstantial.

I bet the lawyer that took the case is just hoping M$ blindly settles to keep it out of court. Only the lawyer benefits in cases like these.

'In hell, there's a specific section for murderers, rapists, lawyers...' - summarized from a Rowan Atkinson comedy

I've hardly ever had any problems with Halo or my 360.

EDIT: Whoops, typo.

Gamepro123
11-30-2007, 01:58 AM
I haven't had any problems with Halo 3 and have never heard of any problems, but Assassin's Creed's problems are PAINFULLY obvious, widespread and it would be an easy lawsuit. I hope Ubi does get successfully sued if they don't release a patch, this is unacceptable.

psycopath2003
11-30-2007, 03:35 AM
Honestly what needs to be looked into on Microsoft / Bungies end would be to find out the average play time in a day of the people who had their systems go out while playing Halo 3. Honestly I wouldn't doubt its a lot of people who get TOO addicted to the game and just play for hours, or leave their system on pause while they run on errands just so they can comeback and finish the level they are on.

This has been something that I'm sure has happened not with just Halo (any of the 3) or either version of the Xbox but other systems as well when a person gets too involved in such and such game and don't have the common sence to know when they need to let the system rest before there is hardware failures.

I know a lot of people who work at the local games stops and I always hear of people coming in throwing fits about "i was playing ___ for X hours and my ____ system died" and pretty much they get told "oh well your fault you broke it and were not gonna fix it cuz you're an idiot" basically lol.

Pr0metheus 1962
11-30-2007, 07:01 AM
Yeah, I'll bet 99% of the problems people are talking about in regard to Assassin's Creed sticking and crashing the 360 are caused by user error. With the PS3 it seems clear there are some real issues, but with the 360, I doubt it.

VillainSmokes
11-30-2007, 07:39 AM
lol @ people who still try to defend the 360.

Must be user error...haha I had 3 xbox's die, and I'm a casual gamer, I only get about 3-4 hours at most per day. I never leave it running for longer than a bathroom break, except for actual play time of course.

But yea I'm sure those thousands of xbox's breaking were all user error. Your sense of reality is broken.

Pr0metheus 1962
11-30-2007, 07:55 AM
Yes, Xboxes die, but THAT'S NOT THE SAME ISSUE. This is not an Xbox dying. This is an issue with the game sticking. When a DVD movie sticks we don't say "Oh, crappy DVD player - I'll have to return it!" Nor do we say "Oh this DVD transfer sucks - they've made a set of bad movie discs! I'll have to return it!"

No. When it's a DVD movie we know what causes it - we haven't cleaned the laser head recently. So we clean the head and all of a sudden it works fine.

Why is it different with videogame DVDs? Why do people assume that when it comes to videogames the manufacturer of the Xbox has somehow magically created a DVD head that never needs cleaning? Why is it MY reality that's broken? If you automatically think that a DVD sticking is because the console is at fault it's you, not me, who is living in a fantasy world.

Look, if the folks who are complaining have had their Xboxes a few months, they should clean their laser heads. Then we can talk about bad consoles or bad discs. If they've had their Xboxes longer than that and they've never cleaned their console's laser head then they've probably got dirt caked onto the head and they might have to get it professionally cleaned. These people's problem is that they're idiots.

User incompetence is not the fault of Microsoft or Ubisoft.

VillainSmokes
11-30-2007, 08:04 AM
I agree I'm sure many ppl don't properly take care of their systems and such. It just sounded like you were trying to blame all the 360 problems on bad disc and dirty heads.

Certainly users destroy systems, but with as many 360's that die and the fact that MS has a special warranty they had to come up with to try and keep us on the 360 pretty much proves the 360 is this generations PS2. It's just sad how many ppl still try to defend MS.

When I had my second PS2 break on me did I defend sony because I loved the PS one? Hell no I cursed their company and bought the xbox. Then they switched it on me. After my 3rd repair I cursed MS and bought a PS3. This generation sucks. I've had np with my PS3, but its short on games/content IMO. And the 360 breaks so much it's not worth all the great games. I'm gonna go hug my PC.

Pr0metheus 1962
11-30-2007, 08:12 AM
Yes, clearly Xboxes have a serious problem with systems overheating and completely breaking down. Almost everyone who owns an Xbox knows that. But again, this thread is not about that issue. This thread is about supposed console errors causing Assassin's Creed DVDs to freeze, crash and lockup.

I re-read my earlier post and I can see where it was confusing. You probably hadn't read the post I made before it, so you didn't see it in the context I meant it to be in. I've edited the post to (hopefully) make what I meant clearer.

All I'm saying is that when it comes to freezes, crashes and lock-ups, that suggests to me that the laser head is where the real problem lies. Hardly anyone ever cleans their laser heads as often as they should, and as a consequence the laser head accumulates more and more dirt until the laser light gets weaker and the system gets more prone to fail.

AirRon_2K7
11-30-2007, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by Gamepro123:
I haven't had any problems with Halo 3 and have never heard of any problems, but Assassin's Creed's problems are PAINFULLY obvious, widespread and it would be an easy lawsuit. I hope Ubi does get successfully sued if they don't release a patch, this is unacceptable.

Oh, well the pain must be unbearable for me, since I haven't noticed any problems. How would a lawsuit benefit you? It wouldn't, to answer my question.


Yeah, I'll bet 99% of the problems people are talking about in regard to Assassin's Creed sticking and crashing the 360 are caused by user error. With the PS3 it seems clear there are some real issues, but with the 360, I doubt it.

Rofl at that comment. Just... lol. The console (360) clearly lacks a part that keeps discs in place (reading your next comment), that IS the fault of Microsoft. It isn't up to the consumer to buy extra parts for their merchandise, in the hope that it won't chew their £50. No one is living in a fantasy world, you just both have different opinions. I used to have a 360 (March 10th if my PoP is telling the truth) and it broke NUMBEROUS times, at least 4. The 3rd one broke (and this is true) then TWO weeks later, the 4th one broke. I did clean my lens from time to time, but if it needs work every two weeks, then it's the fault of the 360... My PS3 is fine not being cleaned at all. The fact that you're calling people idiots without truly thinking out your argument, doesn't say to much about your own intelligence. Why is it that out of all three current gen consoles, only the 360 needs pampering? And that still has nothing to do with the overheating problem... but I won't even start on that.

Since I did understand what you meant I won't even start on the third post, but to make my point. I reckon that the problem (and I've said this many times) is down to the discs, not the game, not the console... the actual individual DVDs (Or BDs...). I mean, these issues seem to happen non stop for some people, and not at all for others. Yes that could well come down to dirty disc drives, but the PS3 doesn't suffer from that problem, and if it does, then mine cleans itself... Simply because I haven't had that issue, and lo' and behold, I haven't touched the innards of my console. I think the defect is with the DVDs, as in, I reckong that the problem is some sort of coding or burning error with the discs, since this problem varies in intensity - from none at all, to all the time - from person to person.

Ahh, I hate longish posts >_<

Destrier
11-30-2007, 12:16 PM
Oh America. It's sad that this kind of lawsuit is the thing America has given the world.

Within the last few years here in the UK we have started to get your "Sue for spilling hot coffee on myself" routine lol.

While i agree companies get away with selling crappy half finished software which crashes systems sometimes this is crazy.

Has this action made it to court? I mean he thinks he deserves 5 million for having a faulty computer game? How can it have set him back 5 million lolz.

uffff. Set your sights high i suppose!

As for the reason the lawyers take it on, in england anyway its because its win win for them. If they lose the stupid guy who started it pays, if they win the loser pays. They dont care anymore if it needs to go to court. Only that they make a crapload of cash from it.

Its made worse nowadays by legal aid which is badly abused by lawyers... anyway this is a different conversation.

Mark903
11-30-2007, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Faylinks:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mark903:
Sorry...But...Someone know if they're doing AC for Mac???

Can somone sue ubisoft for the glitches in AC? :-D jk

and btw, just get PC on your mac, if you have a mac that can run AC(system requirements) its probably has an intel chip, so you can have both mac and PC on the same compter (MAC FANBOY YAY) </div></BLOCKQUOTE> MAC RULES!!!! Ubi sometimes make Mac games...So...I'm hoping for that...and now...waiting waiting waiting...<http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Ctrl-Alt-Kill
11-30-2007, 05:47 PM
Hi I just had to add this but there is a guy at my work that says M$ (Microsoft) purposefully put a "code"¯ in Halo 3 to mess with your Xbox so you had to buy a new one http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif To be honest there is no way you could prove anything like this in cort its like the whole "this pop star / movie / game killed my kid" thing all over again. (...but not so morbid)

People die, things break. Get over it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

BTOG46
11-30-2007, 05:53 PM
It's a bit like the myth that Bill Gates and Steve Jobs (Microsoft/Apple) are rivals, they've actually been friends for years, and Microsoft isn't trying to kill the Mac, why should it, Bill gates, as well as being a friend of the Apple boss, also owns millions of dollars worth of Apple shares.

dirtybird21
11-30-2007, 06:00 PM
I don't really mind the Xbox360's hiccups exept for one.. It scratches my disks!!! Halo 3, Assassins Creed, And NBA 2K8 are all stratched by the xbox 360, And you can tell it's the xbox because they all make up these perfect little circles and i got 2K8 last friday... Put it in and played it awhile... And by saterday it was scratched 2 the point that i can't even play it... Now i just payed 60 bucks for 1 night 2 play a game? WTF IS THAT?!?!?

Since it happened so soon, I convinced them that it happened in the case (looks like it could have because of the circles) and they'll replace it as soon as they get it in stock... But still i mean, That doesn't even make sense 2 me why it does that, It has only happened 2 me with the 360 and never my old xbox...

Fojos
11-30-2007, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by VillainSmokes:
lol @ people who still try to defend the 360.

Must be user error...haha I had 3 xbox's die, and I'm a casual gamer, I only get about 3-4 hours at most per day. I never leave it running for longer than a bathroom break, except for actual play time of course.

But yea I'm sure those thousands of xbox's breaking were all user error. Your sense of reality is broken.

I know 6 people in RL who play AC on the 360. None of them had any problems with it at all.

Fastr77
11-30-2007, 06:47 PM
I know about 6 ac players with 360's as well, no problems. Oh, they all have Halo 3 as well, no problems.

and for those idiots that keep saying "oh you know the 360 fails blah blah" YES we know, that doesn't mean that Halo 3 is causing it to fail, THINK before you post. My own 360 is out for repair as we speak (it would have been returned today, but no one was here to receive it) less then 3 weeks turnover for me.

wii doesn't have any problems because they didn't really improve anything, just the input device.

and the ps3 DOES HAVE PROBLEMS. don't be an idiot, I've know quite a few people that had to return their ps3's and get new ones because they wouldn't play half the games, even some old ps2 games they couldn't handle.

oh not to mention their arent any games to burn hours and hours away on on the ps3, so why would they break as much? if halo 3 ever came out on the ps3 I bet alot of them would over heat to.

CheZeDip1337
11-30-2007, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by Fastr77:
I know about 6 ac players with 360's as well, no problems. Oh, they all have Halo 3 as well, no problems.

and for those idiots that keep saying "oh you know the 360 fails blah blah" YES we know, that doesn't mean that Halo 3 is causing it to fail, THINK before you post. My own 360 is out for repair as we speak (it would have been returned today, but no one was here to receive it) less then 3 weeks turnover for me.

wii doesn't have any problems because they didn't really improve anything, just the input device.

and the ps3 DOES HAVE PROBLEMS. don't be an idiot, I've know quite a few people that had to return their ps3's and get new ones because they wouldn't play half the games, even some old ps2 games they couldn't handle.

oh not to mention their arent any games to burn hours and hours away on on the ps3, so why would they break as much? if halo 3 ever came out on the ps3 I bet alot of them would over heat to.


lol, i like how your saying ps3 has problems and your setting there waiting for your xbox to come back from repair made me laugh http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Fastr77
11-30-2007, 07:09 PM
actually I have another 360 sitting here right now, so I don't really care. My friend who had the ps3 had to leave work early so he could get back to the store to return it before it was too late. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Plus it's pretty damn obvious the 360 has problems, but most people don't like to open their eyes and realize that the ps3 does too.

CheZeDip1337
11-30-2007, 07:12 PM
lol dual wielding 360's crazyness

Fastr77
11-30-2007, 07:14 PM
Two roommate friends of mine both have 360's, and mainly use the one hooked up to the big hd tv in the living room, so one let me borrow his while mine was out. Not everyone is that lucky of course.

Pinjani10
11-30-2007, 08:43 PM
The world's falling apart when you can sue companies for a game that "freezes".... From what I can see very few people have any technical issues with Halo 3. WTF is wrong with these people they want 5mill from a 60 dollar game....?

Tela
11-30-2007, 08:48 PM
Anybody try and sue Ubi...you'll get a mob of angry fans outside your door. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Fastr77
11-30-2007, 08:54 PM
why? there should be a mob of angry gamers outside of ubi.

Destrier
12-02-2007, 12:57 PM
Fastr77, the xbox clearly has major issues. I work in retail and the amount i see coming back broken is insane. They also scratch disks but i think this is mainly customers moving the 360 while its on.

Maybe when they sell out the new company will be able to make them work, and for sure the Elite has not come back yet so maybe this one works.

You cant argue against the fact they break, even Microsoft agrees and thats why they extended their warranty. How that helps beyond extending the life of your xbox for a couple of years im not sure. Maybe they are hoping it will last till the next "next gen".

Mark903
12-03-2007, 05:52 AM
Originally posted by Faylinks:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mark903:
Sorry...But...Someone know if they're doing AC for Mac???

Can somone sue ubisoft for the glitches in AC? :-D jk

and btw, just get PC on your mac, if you have a mac that can run AC(system requirements) its probably has an intel chip, so you can have both mac and PC on the same compter (MAC FANBOY YAY) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But...Are you really sure that with a Macbook (with intel chip) the game will run??? Beacuse my dad have a Macbook!!!

Fastr77
12-03-2007, 07:53 AM
when did I ever say they don't have problems? seriously, read my posts. All of my friends that have xbox's (save 1) have had to send them out, Mine is out, I NEVER said they don't have problems. All I said was so does the ps3, it's just not a wide spread, with the problems or the media.