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rcnaye
01-06-2007, 07:41 PM
I'm an old geezer, (in my 70's) and received a few games and a joystick for Xmas - to keep me young I guess! I'm having a ball except that I can't get the programs to run. Blazing Angels was a bummer - spent 5 days trying and returned a Saitek evo stick for a logitech attack 3 thinking maybe that would help. Nada. Now I'm focusing on Pacific Fighters as my game of choice but I'm thinking I made a mistake changing joysticks. What is the 'stick of choice' for novices with slow reflexes - well, not that slow! I'd like to get a stick I can stay with that's proven itself on games like IL2, Pacific Fighters and Heroes of the Pacific.
BTW- anyone know of any games sited on the European Campaign? Thanks guys.

AFJ_rsm
01-06-2007, 08:10 PM
If you can find one, try to get your hands on either a microsoft force feedback pro joystick, or a microsoft force feedback 2

they're the holy grail of joysticks

I still have my old ffb pro after almost 9 years of use and abuse

Targ
01-06-2007, 08:20 PM
What price range are you looking at?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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airdale1960
01-07-2007, 03:20 AM
rcnaye-
I ordered a AVB top shot pegasis (Google AVB). Only $24.99. Not bad for the price. It is very large and has a stable base. 12 buttons, it has a seperate control for the rudder, not the twist handle. I found the only weak point to be the trigger button, I wore out in a 2 year span. I just programed new buttons until my new one arrives. Hey, have fun! airdale1960

Chivas
01-07-2007, 06:34 AM
The best as AFJ says is the Microsoft ForceFeedback 2 that is no longer in production but can be picked up new or used on ebay. I just recently bought a new one, but it cost me 255 bucks, but worth every penny.

While waiting for the new stick I purchaced the Saitek Aviator joystick for 40 bucks and with a few easy mods was able to get it to perform almost as well as the microsoft stick.

The CH sticks are quite well made but I personally dislike the clunky gimbals that can throw off your aim while passing thru the x and y axis.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.war-clouds.com/sigs/jg27chivas.jpg

Eightball_Syn
01-07-2007, 09:01 PM
What do you think about the X52? Is it any good? My current joystick (logitech freedom 2.4 cordless)is totally ****, I bought that one instead of a microsoft force feedback 2 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Chivas
01-08-2007, 12:46 AM
Its a great idea to buy a Hotas system like the X52. Its a decent throttle and good software, but I was less than thrilled with the joystick. The X52Pro may be a better bet than the X52, and worse comes to worse you can always buy another joystick to work with the X52 throttle. Although I think Saitek may have learned some lessons from the X52 and improved them with the X52Pro. I know with some tweaking the Saitek Aviator joystick is quite precise so I would imagine the X52Pro is atleast up to that standard.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.war-clouds.com/sigs/jg27chivas.jpg

Draughluin1
01-08-2007, 04:50 AM
Saitek X52's are reliable and at a decent affordable price, at least for me. As far as I know, there was some glitches in the first batch, which have since been long fixed. It's stick I have now and has lasted much longer than the Thrustmasters and Logitech's I've had previously. Is also programable, which can make life much easier then searching the keyboard. Yes, there are comparable or maybe even better sticks around, but they can be a lot more expensive. Use the price difference to purchase a Track IR device from Natural Point. Thats sure to make life much easier for an older Geezer, much like myself.

Goodluck<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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WOLFMondo
01-08-2007, 06:39 AM
The best stick is a CH Fighter stick. Everything else is just a pretender to the throne. :P<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Cheers!!

STENKA_69.GIAP
01-08-2007, 06:48 AM
Hi RCNAE

Sorry to dissapoint you but you returned a perfectly good stick to get a perfectly bad one which doesn't have the base functionality needed to fly this simulation correctly i.e. throttle, twist for rudder hat switch for viewing. Worse than that your new stick is unreliable. I know as I've got two logitech sticks thrown in the corner rotting when I got fed up repairing them.

Saitek Evo, Av8r or X52 do the job at a good price. Most of my squad members recently buying sticks have gone for X52 which is what I happily use.

Microsoft sticks are well liked by many pilots - but they are obselete, no longer supported by the manufacturer. When Microsoft no longer support their own sticks for the latest Microsoft operating system.....

If you are finding the stick too twitchy you adjust the profile.

Download this IL2sticks utility and change the profile to be more progressive

http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=332

This means that small stick movements will be less reacted to.

Next remember that your stick is merely affecting control surfaces - which in turn influence the attitude of the plane. For example if you pull back on the stick without enough speed passing air over the wings to gain lift..... it will not go up... it will stall, flop over and you will be swearing at your joystick when it's actualy your fault.

Above all keep speed up it's all that is keeping you in the air.

Next if you want Western front and Eastern front buy the IL2 1946 version.

If you do get 1946 and want training click on my badge and visit the GIAP website - you would not be the oldest pilot to be trained there.

Looking at your callsign.... Canadian? or Scottish?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Bearcat99
01-08-2007, 07:52 AM
Welcome aboard.... ~!S!~

I recomend that you go to this site (http://saitekusa.stores.yahoo.net/recprod.html) and get a reconditioned Saitek X-52. It is the best affordable low end HOTAS available at the moment. The reconditioned sticks at Saitek come with a full warranty. I also recommend that you get IL2 46 ASAP and basically forget about pacific Fighters. You will have more options and flexibility with 46, plus it is just better than the PF standalone. The MSFFB2 sticks are good. I use one of those.. and an X-45 in combination. Whatever you do stay away from Logitech sticks. They really are made more for the arcade flying games.... not for a sim with flight models this...... detailed. They generally dont last.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Ken-Ghost-King
01-08-2007, 01:31 PM
What joystick? Well as the name implies there's real joy in the joystick you see in my signature... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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gates123
01-08-2007, 06:18 PM
CH Products you only have to buy once. Everything else breaks eventually, especially a Saitek

sithhar9
01-08-2007, 07:47 PM
I've always been a Thrustmaster guy - Started with the old FCS/TCS/RCS then upgraded to an F-22 Pro, then I switched for awhile to the Saitek X-35. Then when I needed a USB joystick, switched to the Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar. Which is the king of all joysticks imo! It has problems though, the stock springs and gimbal setup make the center play difficult. I know I can't fly through hangers in a Gladiator as well as I could on the X-35.

I plan to upgrade to one of the many gimbal replacements that fix that but they are rather expensive.

I've also used a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, Saitek Aviator and a Thrustmaster Top Gun Fox 2 Pro. Of those 3, I think I like the Aviator the most.

rcnaye
01-08-2007, 08:50 PM
Thanks for all the input. I tried to get the MS stick but was told they don't make them anymore. Anyway, I found a few(a lot) of pennies in an old sock, and bought a Logitech Force 3D Pro for $100 Cdn. No fool like an old fool. I really like the feedback and am acutely aware of how differently it handles from the Saitek or the old (normal) Logitech! BTW - the handle is Royal Canadian Navy -Aye. I'm a retired navy Padre. I guess I should be taking my collar off when I shoot someone down!
Anyone know where I can learn to read a map?

Bearcat99
01-08-2007, 10:15 PM
The best thing I can tell you about the maps is to just pick a plane... pick a map and fly around in it. The quick mission builder islimited in whatyou can do as far as maps go.. but if you use The UQMG (UberQuickMissionGenrator) or Mission Mate which you can get from the Sturmovik Essentials thread in my sig you can create small missions like in the Quick Mission builder in the sim... but with more options. This site (http://777avg.com/maps/) has some printable maps that you can use as a start.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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toastfrenzy
01-09-2007, 10:12 AM
I have a MSFFB2 but I now (since I installed IL46)have the frustrating quirk that I have to open the game conrtoller manager in XPpro Sp2 and "test" the FFB and buttons to get it to work when I start Il46.

Quite often i forget and have to close Il46 and start over.

I now have ordered a CH combat stick (want to move to a HOTAS set up)from amazon and would like to know if CH is the way to go. Looked at the TH Cougar but the Tech support seems not to be all that.

Will I miss the FFB? (I know I will miss the stall buffet warning)

Or has anybody any advice on how to ensure that the MSFFB2 is correctly loaded on start as it was before i installed IL46?

XyZspineZyX
01-09-2007, 10:47 AM
You might miss the FFB, but CH is the stuff to go for. I ordered one recently to take over my old X45 stick, and as a test to see if I'd like to go with a full CH HOTAS, and all I can say is that its like going from a Civic to a Porche 911.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Aaron_GT
01-09-2007, 10:59 AM
Some day some manufacturer will end up producing a force feedback stick that is the equal of the FFB 2. I am surprised it hasn't happened already. An X-52 with force feedback would be a good option.

Perhaps the ideal for the serious simmer would be a full-throw joystick also with FFB. I thought of getting a second Microsoft stick and extending the handle to about 30 inches, but I reckoned that the FFB would be extreme, but also the force of restraining the FFB would be very hard on the internals, plus I'd have to screw the base to a big chunk of wood and put my chair on top to prevent the stick going all over the place.

knightflyte
01-09-2007, 12:47 PM
I'm not totally posative about this, and I've not seen it specificly, but I THINK why CH doesn't have FF is because the technology for FF is still 'copyrighted' and would be too expensive to purchase the rights.

I know on the CH forums that CH products have unequivically ruled out FF in their sticks.

They DID have a FF joystick about the same time Microsoft's was released, but that went the way of the dodo bird. I hear it was a VERY good stick for FF.

I know I'd buy one in a second if it were available.... and it seems a lot of folks would want one, but alas.

Chivas
01-09-2007, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by toastfrenzy:
I have a MSFFB2 but I now (since I installed IL46)have the frustrating quirk that I have to open the game conrtoller manager in XPpro Sp2 and "test" the FFB and buttons to get it to work when I start Il46.

Quite often i forget and have to close Il46 and start over.

I now have ordered a CH combat stick (want to move to a HOTAS set up)from amazon and would like to know if CH is the way to go. Looked at the TH Cougar but the Tech support seems not to be all that.

Will I miss the FFB? (I know I will miss the stall buffet warning)

Or has anybody any advice on how to ensure that the MSFFB2 is correctly loaded on start as it was before i installed IL46?

You could try reloading the MSFF2 software. I had the same problem with my MSFF2 and fried the circuit board trying to figure it out. When I bought a new one on ebay the problem was gone. I was going to remove the forcefeedback folder from IL-2 as I notice the spring forces would only disappear when the game loaded. Anyway it works with this new stick.

As far as getting the CH stick...once your used to the smooth gimbals of the MSFF2 you may be dissappointed with CH. If you can, try one out first before buying. They are very well built and I know mine will never break down, cus I never use it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I would buy the CH throttle and combine it with a Saitek Aviator or another MSFF2.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.war-clouds.com/sigs/jg27chivas.jpg

Ken-Ghost-King
01-09-2007, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by knightflyte:
I'm not totally posative about this, and I've not seen it specificly, but I THINK why CH doesn't have FF is because the technology for FF is still 'copyrighted' and would be too expensive to purchase the rights.

I know on the CH forums that CH products have unequivically ruled out FF in their sticks.

They DID have a FF joystick about the same time Microsoft's was released, but that went the way of the dodo bird. I hear it was a VERY good stick for FF.

I know I'd buy one in a second if it were available.... and it seems a lot of folks would want one, but alas.

Ummmmm you do know CH was the FIRST to implement FFB? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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http://forum.combatace.com/uploads/post-22-1159116502.gif

NonWonderDog
01-09-2007, 03:45 PM
CH Force FX back in 1997, for those who don't know. I never heard any good things about it, myself, only that it was all plastic and buzzy.

knightflyte
01-09-2007, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by Ken-Ghost-King:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by knightflyte:
I'm not totally posative about this, and I've not seen it specificly, but I THINK why CH doesn't have FF is because the technology for FF is still 'copyrighted' and would be too expensive to purchase the rights.

I know on the CH forums that CH products have unequivically ruled out FF in their sticks.

They DID have a FF joystick about the same time Microsoft's was released, but that went the way of the dodo bird. I hear it was a VERY good stick for FF.

I know I'd buy one in a second if it were available.... and it seems a lot of folks would want one, but alas.

Ummmmm you do know CH was the FIRST to implement FFB? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I really don't know the full story....I read a few online articles because I was interested in the CH FF stick, and put two and two together. I may have come up with five though. Wouldn't be the first time.

They may have been the first to impliment...but does that mean they had rights to the technology? (just asking)

I'd eventually like to find a Force FX dtick to mod with a Fighterstick. Dang those suckers are impossible to find.

Ken-Ghost-King
01-10-2007, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by knightflyte:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ken-Ghost-King:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by knightflyte:
I'm not totally posative about this, and I've not seen it specificly, but I THINK why CH doesn't have FF is because the technology for FF is still 'copyrighted' and would be too expensive to purchase the rights.

I know on the CH forums that CH products have unequivically ruled out FF in their sticks.

They DID have a FF joystick about the same time Microsoft's was released, but that went the way of the dodo bird. I hear it was a VERY good stick for FF.

I know I'd buy one in a second if it were available.... and it seems a lot of folks would want one, but alas.

Ummmmm you do know CH was the FIRST to implement FFB? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I really don't know the full story....I read a few online articles because I was interested in the CH FF stick, and put two and two together. I may have come up with five though. Wouldn't be the first time.

They may have been the first to impliment...but does that mean they had rights to the technology? (just asking)

I'd eventually like to find a Force FX dtick to mod with a Fighterstick. Dang those suckers are impossible to find. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not impossible, you just have to know where to look. (http://www.ch-hangar.com) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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http://forum.combatace.com/uploads/post-22-1159116502.gif

tlocus
01-10-2007, 04:55 PM
Hi,
I owned an older Saitek joystick (I think it was an older cyborg) which had the 'return to center spring' at the base of the stick.
The problem I had with that Saitek was it would stick when you make slight x-y movements (I think it was the spring and the plastic cup retainer).

I was wondering you guys that have the newer Saitek X52's and X52 pro's notice this problem?


btw, right now I've been using the microsoft sidewinder precision 2 joystick (not the force feedback) and it works very well.

VF-51-Dart
01-10-2007, 05:50 PM
Thrustmaster Cougar http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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toastfrenzy
01-13-2007, 04:25 AM
Well I have my new set up, went for all CH Products CS, PP & PT.
Can't believe the difference in my flying, thought I was rubbish (compared to some I ?am). Rudders make all the difference. I now realize how little I was using them with the Twist stick MSFFB2 and I don't even miss the FFB. Just the little job of programming the many buttons now....

Thanks all for the help\advise.

I mainly fly on the War Cloud servers..So if you?re ever around!

Chivas
01-13-2007, 12:36 PM
Most of us are such bad shots that any Hota combination would do. Just find some combination of Stick, Throttle, Pedals that feel good and combine it with Track IR and your good to go.

~Salute~
Chivas<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.war-clouds.com/sigs/jg27chivas.jpg

Rammathorn_
01-13-2007, 12:38 PM
I recently started using a pair of CH Pro Pedals that I've had for a few months. I had previously been using a cheap Saitek twist stick (cyborg evo). My first impression was not a very good one. I use the rudder a lot and am having a tough time going from the twist grip to the somewhat awkward pedals. I'm actually going to wait to pick up a new joystick for a while since I found the best way to practice is to mimic my wrist movements on the old stick with my feet on the pedals.

I'm sure one day I'll look back on the twist stick and wonder how I possibly managed.

Philipscdrw
01-13-2007, 01:28 PM
I have a CH USB yoke, CH analogue Pro Pedals, and two monitors. The yoke doesn't have any centering detents! The pedals do, which is a pain.

CH make durable products - I must have had this yoke for close to four years now, in almost continuous use, and the only maintenance has been some silicon-free (or is that silicon-based?) lube on the shaft, and the only failure has been Down-Left on the hat-switch, which frankly I can happily live without....<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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