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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 12:35 AM
Originally posted on 07/01/03 08:41PM (server time: GMT 0)

I know the Soviets got their hands on a couple P-38's during Operation Frantic...mostly those planes that they could repaire themselves. Were the Soviets able to evaluate them? Is there any Soviet data? Or, did they have the same experience the Italians had?

Here's the linkage to the thread in ORR for background:

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=zvkvt

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Message Edited on 07/01/0307:52PM by MachineII

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 12:35 AM
Originally posted on 07/01/03 08:41PM (server time: GMT 0)

I know the Soviets got their hands on a couple P-38's during Operation Frantic...mostly those planes that they could repaire themselves. Were the Soviets able to evaluate them? Is there any Soviet data? Or, did they have the same experience the Italians had?

Here's the linkage to the thread in ORR for background:

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=zvkvt

<html> <body><p align="center">http://users.adelphia.net/~machineii/images/sig3.jpg
<font color=red>If.I.could..just.reach.my.utility.belt!</font> </body>
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Message Edited on 07/01/0307:52PM by MachineII

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 02:49 AM
Actualy those raids weren't bombing only the germans.
Other vital targets were also the Romanian rafineries on Prahova Valley, near Ploiesti, wich were heavily bombed by the British, and also later by the 15AF from Italy.
The first US raid over Ploiesti was on 1 August 1943 when Us B-24 (coming from Banina and Benghazi) attacked the rafineries near Ploiesti.
Of 178 B-24, only 23 landed in Ciprus, Malta or Sicily, the rest never camed back.
During this raids, (wuch continued until August '44 in a desperate effort to destroy them), the 15AF suffered heavy losses in bombers, and also fighters, wich is simply asthonishing, if you realise that the Romanian and German fighters there were outnumbered by almost 1/10!
Also a great number of P-38 were lost in those raids.
Cheers.

"The show must go on..."

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 02:52 AM
Most due to AAA. Ploisti had the heaviest concentration of AAA guns besides Berlin itself.

Gib

Von_Zero wrote:
-
- Actualy those raids weren't bombing only the
- germans.
-
- Other vital targets were also the Romanian
- rafineries on Prahova Valley, near Ploiesti, wich
- were heavily bombed by the British, and also later
- by the 15AF from Italy.
-
- The first US raid over Ploiesti was on 1 August
- 1943 when Us B-24 (coming from Banina and Benghazi)
- attacked the rafineries near Ploiesti.
-
- Of 178 B-24, only 23 landed in Ciprus, Malta or
- Sicily, the rest never camed back.
-
- During this raids, (wuch continued until August
- '44 in a desperate effort to destroy them), the 15AF
- suffered heavy losses in bombers, and also fighters,
- wich is simply asthonishing, if you realise that the
- Romanian and German fighters there were outnumbered
- by almost 1/10!
-
- Also a great number of P-38 were lost in those
- raids.
-
- Cheers.
-
-
- "The show must go on..."



"You dont win a war by dieing for your country. You win a war by making the other fool die for his country."

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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 02:56 AM
Indeed the germans sent numerous AA batteries there , becaure Ploiesti provided almost 2/3 of the oil neded by the axis.
Finaly someone who knows something about my country!
Or you also are a romanian?
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"The show must go on..."

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 03:54 AM
P-38s with the 81st FG I believe it was flew frantics to Russia along with the 332nd,31st, and 325th FGs. There were quite a few P-38s that flew on these missions. I have my books packed away so I cant get the exact number but I do believe it was somwhere in the 20s.

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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 05:10 AM
Im American. I just know you cant shoot down 100 B-24's in fighters http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Had to be trips!

Gib

Von_Zero wrote:
- Indeed the germans sent numerous AA batteries there
- , becaure Ploiesti provided almost 2/3 of the oil
- neded by the axis.
- Finaly someone who knows something about my
- country!
-
- Or you also are a romanian?
-
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
- "The show must go on..."



"You dont win a war by dieing for your country. You win a war by making the other fool die for his country."

<center>
http://gibbageart.havagame.com/images/sig01.jpg (http://gibbageart.havagame.com)
</center>

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 01:51 PM
Bearcat99 wrote:
- P-38s with the 81st FG I believe it was flew
- frantics to Russia along with the 332nd,31st, and
- 325th FGs. There were quite a few P-38s that flew on
- these missions. I have my books packed away so I
- cant get the exact number but I do believe it was
- somwhere in the 20s.

Thanks Bearcat. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 02:15 PM
Gibbage1 wrote:
- Most due to AAA. Ploisti had the heaviest
- concentration of AAA guns besides Berlin itself.

The strongest and heaviest flak were posted north of Hanover around the north-west of Germany - Bremen, Vegesack and along the Weser and the shipyards.

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Kimura



Message Edited on 07/02/0302:16PM by KIMURA

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 04:20 PM
In 1943 Russians requested "few" samples of P-38 for testing, but this request was denied.

Russian did get few P-38 in their hands though:

1. One F-5 (damaged during German bombing) was abandoned in on the airfield in Poltava during operation Frantic in 1944.
2. One P-38 "Pride of Jane" recovered after force landing in Hungary near Nad'keresh (near Budapest).
3. P-38L-1 N 42-4384 "Blacky" - recovered after force landing during operation Frantic. This plane was used initially by pilots of 173IAP for training. It was later tested in NII VVS.


AKA_Bogun

---------------
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.

- Tom Clancy

---------------
Ilsa: "That was the day the Germans marched into Paris."
Rick: "Not an easy day to forget. The Germans wore grey, you wore blue."
Ilsa: "Yes. I have put that dress away. When the Germans march out, I'll wear that dress again."

- Casablanca, 1942


Message Edited on 07/02/0311:21AM by Bogun