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View Full Version : 4.08 we need more bombers!!



Mr.-Electric
12-04-2006, 07:11 PM
I know some people out there like me that like to fly bombers, and wish that IL-2 will start adding them like the B-29 or B-17 as a flyable aircraft, People you have to agree that sometimes you dont feel like flying fighters, and instead want to fly bombers. (I want to all the time http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif). And for me this sim is starting to get boring cause i want to fly huge bombers not little 2 engine ones more like the HUGE! 4 engine ones that make a good clean roaring noise.


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VW-IceFire
12-04-2006, 07:27 PM
Your new here aren't you? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

We've had several dozen discussions on this topic over the last few years. Quite a few over the last few months even.

In short, large four engine heavy bombers, are a huge amount of work to put together. You've got several gunner stations plus the working cockpit and bombsight and if thats no small feat then I don't know what is.

So we're not likely to ever see a four engine bomber in this series. That said...this series is over. 4.08 is not going to add anything except for several maps that were already under development and finished either a while ago or slightly more recently. We've not been told of any new planes and there aren't likely to be any. Even ones that were easy to add.

I am wondering...how much everyone who asks for 4 engined heavies...gets out of the twin engine medium and light bombers we do have as flyable. If we count bombers present and incoming in the new addons then we have:

1) He-111H-2 and H-6
2) TB-3
3) Ju-88A-4
4) B-25J
5) G4M
6) A-20C and G (if you count it)
7) Ar-234

Thats 7 bombers...all with bombsights, gunner stations, and so forth. How many of those have you flown (any of you) on a regular basis and use the bombsight on with great effect?

Not many I imagine. If you have I'd love to hear about it because I keep threatening to learn the technique for myself and build a campaign around it.

Anyways, my suggestion for the new series of games is to include two heavy bombers in the game (this could be done over a period of a few different games as this is likely to be a huge undertaking). The first is the B-24 Liberator. Why the B-24? Well it served in more squadrons than the B-17 as well as taking part in far more operations in many different theaters. I realize the B-17 has the mystique but as four engine heavy allied day bombers go the B-24 is the better choice. You can use it in the ETO, MTO, and PTO without any trouble. Very flexible for every theater.

The second would be the Lancaster. It'd be great to expand the series into the night bombing campaigns. I do suspect this will be more for the purists as these are likely to be somewhat boring missions unless the gameplay changes significantly in Storm of War but then maybe some of you enjoy the long flights. The Lancaster represents one of the most widely used RAF heavy bombers, the one that is most well known in Europe and North America, as well as being the most flexible as you can in theory get the Lancaster special models and fly the dam busters raids or try and sink the Tirpitz theoretically.

So my justification is in relation to getting the most possible mileage out of the heavy bombers that we can manage to convince Oleg's team to build. My suggestion Mr Electric is that if you really want them that badly...either be prepared to try and build one in 3D like some of the other third party modelers or gather what information, pictures, diagrams, and blueprints you can on the four engined heavy of your choice.

Anyways this got long but I had lots to say on this subject.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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koivis
12-04-2006, 11:55 PM
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RAF_Loke
12-05-2006, 06:06 AM
You forgot all the dive-bombers too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Tinpanzer87
12-05-2006, 09:08 AM
B-17 Flyable with gunner postions
Ballturrent would be nice i know it is
never going to happen but hey it would be nice

tralkpha
12-05-2006, 09:32 AM
I love flying the current bombers we have.. every time we get a new one I practice with the bombsight so I will have decent accuracy when online.
I used to frequently fly he111s online with good bombing accuracy and the last I used online was the g4m with decent accuracy.

As far as this series goes I expect little more than 46+manchuria and I will be pleasantly surprised by whatever the final patch brings.
(Im going to love the ar234)
I tend to agree with Icefire's suggestion... encourage the devs to work on aircraft used in multiple theaters or for long periods and encourage 3rd party folks to develop other aircraft.

Take the b25 as an example of time involved
seven! positions including a huge instrument panel modeled plus a bombsight compared to only one position for a fighter or two for most dive bombers

Philipscdrw
12-05-2006, 11:32 AM
There is a flyable 4-engined heavy bomber: the TB-3!

The WW2 4-engined bombers don't hugely appeal to me - they're just larger, slower versions of the B-25. Granted, more stuff explodes once you reach the target, but the whole 'take off, climb slowly, cruise slowly, get shot at, shoot back, aim bombs, watch pretty explosions, lose engine to flak, limp home, collapse onto runway' routine is covered quite nicely by the existing bombers...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Nimits
12-05-2006, 11:33 AM
B-17 Flyable with gunner postions
Ballturrent would be nice i know it is
never going to happen but hey it would be nice

We really do not have any maps useful for a B-17. New Guinea is the only map I can think of that has both a potential B-17 airbase and target.

Xiolablu3
12-05-2006, 02:03 PM
It would be great to have more bombers in the game, but unfoortunatley they require so much work to add, twice as much as any fighter, maybe even more, considering htey have around 4 or 5 positions.

We have a light and medium bomber for each side, so thats enough really.

A20 = Heinkel/Ju88
Mosquito = Me110
Pe2 = Me110

If you want to fly bombers online, try the UKdedicated, server 1 if you have 4.04m, server 2 if you have 4.05m.

Lots of bomber action on that server, often big flights of bombers attacking targets togther, just pay attention tot he chat box for info on forming up http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

We had a great 10 plane stuka sortie the other day.

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Mr.-Electric
12-05-2006, 03:09 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Your new here aren't you? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

NEW! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Im sorry but im not new. I been playing this sim ever since it first came out so I know what has changed, But seriously it does get boring flying fighters, and most of the bombers I fly are bad (I rather say suck). the only ones that I think are good is the B-25, and the Jap bomber that I cant think of the name now (I think its G4 something like that).
But all I can say is they BETTER! put in some really good 4 engined bombers and not the TB-3 in BOB,(I hate the TB-3).

XyZspineZyX
12-05-2006, 04:07 PM
With 12 posts to your active, sorry but yes, you are new here. How the f--k should we know that you've been playing this sim for years?

Icefire just remarked that you were new because you started a topic that has been discussed to death here on the boards.

Welcome to the boards btw.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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VW-IceFire
12-05-2006, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by Mr.-Electric:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Your new here aren't you? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

NEW! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Im sorry but im not new. I been playing this sim ever since it first came out so I know what has changed, But seriously it does get boring flying fighters, and most of the bombers I fly are bad (I rather say suck). the only ones that I think are good is the B-25, and the Jap bomber that I cant think of the name now (I think its G4 something like that).
But all I can say is they BETTER! put in some really good 4 engined bombers and not the TB-3 in BOB,(I hate the TB-3).
I think you misunderstood my, half in jest, half ironic comment. As Skunk points out, at 12 posts (and counting no doubt - welcome!) you are quite new to this forum. This subject has been discussed to death. If you've been a regular or a lurker on this forum for that long then you've surely read exactly the same thread about a dozen times over and you would already be aware of the numerous issues surrounding subject matter on hand.

I do beg to differ with your assessment of the bombers we already have and I wonder if you wouldn't remark the same way about a four engined heavy if we had one.

The B-25 is an excellent bomber in the game...but so is the Ju-88 and the Pe-2 (yes I forgot it!) and the G4M Betty which I mentioned in my post. The Ju-88 may be slow but the defensive armament is semi-decent and the AB1000 or SC2000 bombs are absolutely devastating. Have you taken out an entire row of tanks in one attack?

We do have quite a few fighters but you should start flying the bombers and attack aircraft we already have. If we list the aircraft that are not strictly bombers but which are either primarily attack craft, dive bombers, or bombers then we have an even larger list:

1) He-111H-2 and H-6
2) TB-3
3) Ju-88A-4
4) B-25J
5) G4M
6) A-20C and G
7) Ar-234
8) Pe-2 (in three versions)
9) Pe-3 (in two versions)
10) Ju-87 (in four versions)
11) Mosquito FB.VI
12) IL-2 (in so many versions)
13) IL-10 (this is going to be awesome)
14) D3A Val
15) SBD Dauntless (two versions)
16) Bf110 (with so many ground attack configurations including anti-tank gun that I can't count them all)

I'm sure I'm missing some here but you get the idea. We have a whole host of attack, dive bomber, and level bomber or strafer aircraft in this game. While a heavy bomber adds a different dimension to the game as well...I would challenge you to specify what sucks in all of these aircraft and exactly what stops you from using these in all sorts of different scenarios that are decidedly non fighter.

I too get bored of flying the fighters all the time. I'll turn around and choose whatever attack aircraft suits the mission and my mood at the time. Now I'm not the greatest level bomber...I think I've actually hit a target from level flight about 2 or 3 times but as far as skip bombing goes I'm pretty effective at it with nearly any plane including the G4M which I find really doesn't like the skip bombing job but does it any ways.

If you aren't getting mileage out of these aircraft what would a 4 engine heavy bomber do?

Like I said...definitely in favour of the development team, for Storm of War, working on the B-24 and Lancaster bombers in the future. I doubt we'll see a TB-3 from them unless the Eastern Front is in the works again in which case I whole heartedly support it and hope that they will include the I-16 SPB/TB-3 Zveno configuration which has been so much fun online. A Tu-2 would be really neat to have in the future as well...particularly with its high cruising speed and heavy bomb load.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Recon_609IAP
12-05-2006, 09:03 PM
let's keep 4.08 to FM/DM fixes.

I know the US aircraft could use some work http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

S!
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Philipscdrw
12-05-2006, 09:13 PM
I'm puzzled...

If you don't like the medium bombers, why do you expect you'd like the B-17? As far as I'm aware, the B-17 is slower (and probably doesn't climb so fast), has similar defensive arnament, is a bigger target than the B-25. The only advantages are longer range (which is irrelevant on FB's small maps), larger bombload, and two extra engines to catch fire when someone shoots at you!

There's 0% chance of getting 4-engined bombers in 4.08 (there's a chance 1C might license other developers to make addons for the Il-2 series in the future, but don't hold your breath for that!).

I'd like to see the B-24 in SoW (the B-24 served in every theatre in a huge variety of roles, apparently) - not so keen on the Lancaster though. It's a wonderful aircraft, but it was mainly used as a terror weapon against civilians, and I'm not too anxious to simulate that!

(Strategic bombing depresses me a bit. Destroying the enemy's armed forces and lines of communication (and, to a degree, factories) are one thing, but deliberately attacking civilians and the structure of cities "to break their morale" is quite another! However I am proud of the bravery and skill of the RAF aircrews who carried out these raids.)

GerritJ9
12-06-2006, 09:40 AM
As far as I know some further planes will be in 4.08- Fokker D.XXI (Finnish), CW-21B, and F2A-3 were among those mentioned as flyables, and D.XXI (Dutch) and Avia B.534 as AI. Plus a few maps such as Norway and Slovakia, and possibly Bessarabia and Italy.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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KG26_Oranje
12-06-2006, 11:09 AM
Thats 7 bombers...all with bombsights, gunner stations, and so forth. How many of those have you flown (any of you) on a regular basis and use the bombsight on with great effect?

Weak ecuus mr.
How many Fighters have u flown?????????
And How many are there flyable?????????

Well to anser ure Q i have wiht great score from ground till high alt level bombing and i mean high alt + 8.000 meters.
So have the Hole KG26 SQD.

Istead of atacking the poster , u must support him becose there are players that like to fly Bombers only or 90% of there flying time.

A fighter canot win the war wiht out bombers.
And Bombers cant atack wihtout fighter/escorts.

S! A Ahter Full time Bomber pilot.
Oranje.

SaQSoN
12-06-2006, 02:12 PM
You want more bombers? Easy!

Make them!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Best regards,


SaQSoN (Vladimir Kochmarsky)

Mr.-Electric
12-06-2006, 03:10 PM
If you want to know, I almost flown all the fighters most are good but like you said KG26_Oranje some people are bomber people im one of them I usually never fly fighters, and for me big bombers will be great for me. so dont come to this post thinking you know (Philipscdrw)what flying a bomber is like, I think 4 engined bombers are great, but not the TB-3, and I dont have Pe-3 addon so dont mention that aircraft, and just because I havent posted much doesnt mean I dont read all the posts, and I`m not the kind of person who makes alot of posted so dont keep calling me new just because I haven`t posted so many posts, I been on this website for around 2 years.

XyZspineZyX
12-06-2006, 05:53 PM
Well if you have been around here for 2 years, you should have noticed the almost infinite number of threads started on this subject, and being smart about it you would have avoided the topic completely, because its been discussed to DEATH.

Dont come in here with an attitude, people will just think you're a troll. PhilipsCDRW makes valid points.

Here's a cookie.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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VW-IceFire
12-06-2006, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by KG26_Oranje:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Thats 7 bombers...all with bombsights, gunner stations, and so forth. How many of those have you flown (any of you) on a regular basis and use the bombsight on with great effect?

Weak ecuus mr.
How many Fighters have u flown?????????
And How many are there flyable?????????

Well to anser ure Q i have wiht great score from ground till high alt level bombing and i mean high alt + 8.000 meters.
So have the Hole KG26 SQD.

Istead of atacking the poster , u must support him becose there are players that like to fly Bombers only or 90% of there flying time.

A fighter canot win the war wiht out bombers.
And Bombers cant atack wihtout fighter/escorts.

S! A Ahter Full time Bomber pilot.
Oranje. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have flown every fighter in the game including every variant available. Furthermore there is not a single aircraft in the game that I haven't flown. I'd say the one that I have spent the least amount of time in is the Bi-1. The rest I have a fairly good coverage in. That includes bombers.

I don't have to support the original poster. I don't necessarily have to support anyone. But I definitely did not attack the original poster. I challenged his assumptions and his position on the subject matter at hand. Thats considerably different than an attack. If that weren't enough, I supported the idea of the inclusion of not one but two four engined heavy bombers in a future product as its simply not practical to get one in for this game at this point.

So where is the attitude coming from?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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