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timehere
06-10-2007, 08:57 AM
Oleg as always the games you produce are second to none (1946) however why is there no large bombers for us to fly e.g lancasters

and why are there no 1st world war planes within the game..why not bring out a game solely for the world war 1.

also why not introduce a ground based item for us to shoot the planes down with....

waiting with bated breath emile in england

VW-IceFire
06-10-2007, 09:52 AM
This is a bit silly I think? Why are there not heavy bombers? Why not World War I? Why doesn't he just put in a F-22 as well?

Its simple...to do any of those things you need resources. You need to make the art, the 3D models, setup all of the animations, research the historical details...the game has over 300 aircraft in it and something like 75% of those are flyable aircraft. Thats a huge game. But you want World War I aircraft too? Its a bit much.

I'm sorry if this comes across as rude but you're asking for ALLOT of stuff and seemingly without any thought to how much it would take to do any of that.

Now...there are solutions and things coming in the future that will give you some of this.

1) You want World War I? Its best if you have an entirely different game to do that. Fortunately another development team is working on just such a thing.

http://www.gennadich.com/

2) Heavy bombers. Well that might happen in the future with the Storm of War series. But not in IL-2. If you want to do heavy bombers then you really need to have things like radar, night fighters (like Bf110s with radar guidance), larger maps so you can actually do the missions from start to finish, and you need a large team to model all of the different gunner stations, navigation, bombardiers position with working bombsight, and so forth. It could happen but it will be a massive undertaking. IL-2 already has four medium bombers...how much of those do you use now?

3) Ground based flak batteries? Thats possible...its been talked about with regards to Storm of War: Battle of Britain. We might just see such a thing. But you can bet that if we do get them they will be just as detailed as the real things...with the actual sight and range calcuation system. They don't just shoot bullets...there's some mechanics involved to make them work.

Think a bit about how much of an undertaking all of this is and how incredible that any of it is even a possibility.

Cheers!

XyZspineZyX
06-10-2007, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by timehere:
Oleg as always the games you produce are second to none (1946) however why is there no large bombers for us to fly e.g lancasters

and why are there no 1st world war planes within the game..why not bring out a game solely for the world war 1.

also why not introduce a ground based item for us to shoot the planes down with....

waiting with bated breath emile in england

Why, do you ask?

He isn't doing that for this sim because he is hard at working making the replacement for this simulation, which should expand do most of the things you ask for

As for WWI, he's only human. Let him finish one ambitious project at a time

Skycat_2
06-10-2007, 06:23 PM
So there I was, a newly minted Lancaster pilot. My squadron was sitting on the apron at our base at Atlantis, a little known island off the coast of Normandy. While every soul in my crew dreaded the peril and mortal uncertainty of the mission, we were eager to get airborne and see the mission completed. Sitting in our big four engined plane and waiting for the signal to launch was playing hell on our nerves.

I remembered the intelligence officer's briefing at oh dark thirty. "Gentlemen, expect heavy flak over the coast ... The Luftwaffe has recruited dozens of noobs who need to earn online points with easy kills. You are their meat on the table. If you make through the coastal defences, the target is here ..." He slapped the map with his pointer for dramatic effect. "Caen."

There was a collective gasp. We had bombed Caen the previous day when our squadron was flying B-17s. We had suffered heavy losses when our escorts, a gaggle of Sopwith Camels, had broken away to return to Atlantis before their fuel ran out. While our Fortresses could cross the English Channel in four minutes, our fighters were not nearly so fast and had to take off an hour in advance of us to meet us near the target.

We felt forlorn and vulnerable as we watched the Camels float away. Almost immediately, from out of the sun came a flotilla of brightly colored tri-planes, their guns chattering a symphony of death.

"Top gunner reporting ... (tak tak tak) My guns don't have any effect on these bastids! (tak tak tak)"

"What are you talking about," I yelled into the comm. "You're firing twin .50s through canvas and wood kites!"

"Yes sir, I'm sure I'm getting hits but they're not even smoking ... (tak tak tak) Dammit, that HADDDD to have been a headshot! (tak tak tak)"

"Same here, sir," from my tailgunner. "I got one parked on our six, I'm shooting up his engine, nuthin'!" And then a sickening silence from the tail.

Beside us, a Fortress exploded into a ball of fire and debris. No parachutes. Two drei deckers zoomed through the vapor, spitting blue tracers into our formation.

"Climb, climb!" screamed our commander. "Abort this mission!" We poured the coals on for all our engines and hoped we wouldn't overheat ... how many minutes could we sustain full throttle? Two? Three? And the sickeningly hopeless truth was that we could continue to climb to 40,000 feet and still not evade these German supermen with lungs of iron and flesh of steel; they had been conditioned at a secret base in the Alps so to withstand the rigors of open-cockpit combat. Even the motors of their aircraft were marvels of engineering, specially modified to efficiently burn petrol even with almost no oxygen at this altitude.

Every ship would have been decimated had it not been for the timely intervention of a squadron of F4 Phantoms. They pulled our necks off the chopping blocks and sent the enemy into a long evading dive home.

Yesterday's mission replayed over and over in my mind as I sat at the controls of the Lanc. I momentarily thought of reasonable excuses to abort this raid ... bad ping, my joystick values aren't right, I've got cockpit shudder ... And then the signal flare shot up. Time to roll. Ten Lancasters began throttling up in unison. I looked at my watch. Four minutes to the Normandy coast ... God help us all.

Skycat_2
06-10-2007, 09:36 PM
Okay, I'll play nice now ...

Originally posted by timehere:
Why is there no large bombers for us to fly e.g lancasters
Besides the excellent answers given above, you also have to take into consideration that the original IL-2 sim, as developed by 1C:MG, was not intended as a global conflict simulation. IL-2 Sturmovik originally focused on the tactical war between the Soviets and the Germans on WWII's Eastern Front. Actually, it was originally conceived as a study of one flyable plane series, the IL-2 Sturmovik. The flyable Bf109s, Focke-Wulf 190s, P-39s, MiGs, Yaks and Lavochkins were added as as a bonus you could say. Either way, it was a game about low level tactical warfare where the ground attack planes support the infantry, and the fighters support the ground attack planes.

Then 1C:MG added a flyable Stuka in one of the free upgrades, and that added another option other than fighter duty for Luftwaffe pilots. The Bi-1 rocket plane was also added in a free patch; it was the first community made model incorporated into the IL-2 series. This was c.2002 and the modeler was Ilya Schevchenko, an independent fan who ran a website called IL-2 Center. His goal was to coordinate the efforts of other 3-D modelers who also had particular aircraft they wanted to see added to the sim and were willing to donate their work. As I recall, the first Stuka cockpit was by an independant modeler.

Advance a few months to the developemnt of IL-2 Forgotten Battles, an IL-2 expansion that evolved into a 'sequel.' The focus of the expansion was other nations that participated in the fighting on the Eastern Front: Finland, Hungary, Romania. Ilya's TB-3 bomber was added, giving some balance to the newly flyable He111 ... I think the Heinkel's interior was by an independent modeler. There were a few 'Western' aircraft slipped in as Lend-Lease: The P-40E/M series, the Hurricanes, the B-239, the P-47s. I don't recall which of these were 'third party,' but the P-47s were by a team of Brazillians who wanted to celebrate their country's participation during WWII. Although only 200 P-47s were sent to the Soviets through Lend-Lease, the Thunderbolt was added to Forgotten Battles. Additionally, the USAAF became a recognized air force within the sim and it gained an AI P-51D. This was the crack that opened the possibility of other theaters.

By 2003, Ilya had set his goals on creating commercial expansions for the IL-2 series. He licensed the map making tools from 1C:MG and formed his own developement company, Russian Rocket Group. His first projects included maps to represent Normandy coast and the Ardennes region to support his "Battle Over Europe" expansion. Thus began a formal partnership between Oleg and RRG; 1C:MG added a cockpit for the Mustang and made it flyable, and released the new maps, the Mustang, and a community-built B-17G model all in one free patch for Forgotten Battles.

More community-built models were soon to follow in the Aces Expansion Pack. How many of those planes were actually crafted by the 1C:MG team, I don't know. Many were by independent modelers like Gibbage (the Spitfires, P-38s, YP-80) and Alex Voicu (Bf110). The J8A "Gladiator" was by team in Sweden as I recall.

Meanwhile, Ilya had been hinting at leading a full-featured sim based on the IL-2 code, one that would "have a lot of water." He contracted proven modelers throughout the community and paid them for their work. This secret project became "Pacific Fighters." We all know the planes that made the original release (Wildcats, Hellcats, Corsairs, Beaufighter, A-20, B-25) or needed a little extra time to complete (ie, the 'Betty' bomber). What is sorely brought up from time to time are the projects that were started but were not finished, or were not to 1C:MG's standards; or could not be used because of a legal injunction by Grumman: a flyable B-29, a PBY Catalina, a Curtiss Helldiver, a TBD Devastator ...

In the following patches for Pacific Fighters, we gained other projects by independent modelers: The Italian Mc.202 and 205s; the flyable Tempest; the Ju-88. Oleg and 1C:MG had set a deadline for submissions, however, and we could only assume that these were among the last remaining in 1C:MG's vaults. There are rumors of a completed CW-21, an Avia b.534, and a Fokker D.XXI still waiting to breathe air ... who knows what the future holds ...

Ian Boys and a few other independents began to master the map tools. Ian has released several maps including Murmansk, Kurland, Northwest Europe, Burma, and a recent desert coastal "Africa" map. Another team is finishing a Slovakia/Bessarabia map. I believe that the Italy online map was 'third party' as well.

Ilya's Russian Rocket Group again pumped new life into the IL-2 engine with three commercial expansions originally intended only for the Russian market. First, the "Pe-2 Peshka" addon that gave the world six flyable versions of the Pe-2 and Pe-3. The community wasn't sure how the final two RRG addons would be released to the 'West' but eventually it was decided that '46 and "Sturmoviks Over Manchuria" would be released as part on the 1946 DVD.

My point being, if I ever had one, is that the current version of the game is not solely Oleg Maddox, nor does it even represent his original vision. It is the end result of various forces acting either on their own behalf or for the overall 'good' of the community. The series wouldn't have the global focus that it does if Russian Rocket Group hadn't initiated the Western European, Pacific or Manchurian theaters, or hadn't dared to create an alternative timeline where the war between Russia and Germany erupts again in 1946. We wouldn't have many of the planes, or maps, or ground objects without the contributions of many dedicated modelers who were willing to submit their work and see it used in the game without financial compensation in return.

VW-IceFire
06-11-2007, 04:45 PM
Well put Skycat. Simply...its a huge product with lots of peoples time invested in it. Sometimes with compensation and other times purely for the joy of doing it.

timehere
06-16-2007, 12:03 PM
Thank's for all the reply's..Never really though myself as silly before ..
Anyhow iam fully conversant with how long it takes to produce a game as good as and as large as il2.
why is there not an add on site where we as the buying public can download new aircraft for the game and or mod it ourself's. Regards Emile

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2007, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by timehere:
Thank's for all the reply's..Never really though myself as silly before ..
Anyhow iam fully conversant with how long it takes to produce a game as good as and as large as il2.
why is there not an add on site where we as the buying public can download new aircraft for the game and or mod it ourself's. Regards Emile

There is no add-on site because there is no way to make add-ons...the developer reserves all rights to releasing content

Everyone seems to think that user-made mods will 'only be used to add new hostorically accurate stuff'...

here is the definitive scenario, posted by Skycat a week or so again, about "why not user-made mods?":

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Originally posted by Skycat_2:
Hmmmm, a Spitfire with 30 cannons. Sounds great ... I think I'll give it a try ...

Grrrr! Looks like I need FluffPanzer909's modified cockpit for that. There's a link in the ReadMe to FluffPanzer909's website ... Darn, that link is dead. I guess I'll have to check Simviation ...

Thankfully I found it after just fifteen minutes of searching at Simviation. Cool, I even got the right revision number! But what's this, I need AkronBat's improved instrument cluster? Where's do I find that? Oh, it's in the "Flames Of Fame Design Group's Typhoon IB pack. I guess I have to download that now ...

Okay, I found the instruments. It turns out I have to edit a bunch of lines in the config file to make them work in the Spitfire. But now the Typhoon needs to be renamed so there won't be a conflict. Which means SnackSnake's realistic contrail effects file doesn't work with it anymore. No problem, I can edit that ...

Back to the Spitfire. I can't wait to try it out online and blast those UFO FW190s! But what's this? I don't have all the same FMs as my buddies on the Virtua-Clouds server? They're also using Fox-Smolder's "improved weapons values files" for all planes except the Lancaster (they prefer Baby Huey's file), the Tie Fighter (Black-Adder_Shark's model, not HarleeRyder69's), the Bf109G-4, the Condor, the F-22 Raptor, the Vultee ... I've got a bunch of 'missing object' conflicts also. Whose list of must-haves are they using now?

Once I get this all sorted out, I just noticed there is a really great looking Harrier jet at Sim Cafe. It doesn't have a cockpit, but that's okay. I sure love the Harrier.</span>


I really can't add much to that

Philipscdrw
06-16-2007, 09:40 PM
There's now a .txt file on my PC entitled 'The Wit and Wisdom of Skycat"... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

That account more-or-less sums up why I don't have MSFS installed anymore, and don't aggressively mod games nowadays! Should it be 'a Spitfire with 30mm cannons' though?

If it could be done, a radar-layed anti-aircraft gun would be... um... an interesting distraction. I've read that book, published in the last 15 years, whatsitcalled, about the development of radar during WW2. It whets my appetite to operate first-generation radar sets. But I like my radar (and guns) like I like my women: on an aeroplane. Bring on the Beaufighters, Mosquitos, Blenheim MkIFs, Havocs, P-60s, Defiants, He219s...

Korolov1986
06-16-2007, 09:57 PM
Skycat...

You're freakin' brilliant!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Skycat_2
06-16-2007, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by Philipscdrw:
Should it be 'a Spitfire with 30mm cannons' though?
I was springboarding off of a post by VW-IceFire where he commented about Spitfires with "twenty some odd 30mm cannons." The insane number of guns vs. their caliber got mish-mashed in my mind, but that just makes the theoretical 'mod' even more fantastic ... Kind of like a fish story that gets better with each telling. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif