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View Full Version : Town screens: Where are they?



SandroTheMaster
01-02-2011, 07:58 PM
This is driving me mad. The town screen is such an important piece in setting the atmosphere and still we haven't got a single sample!

They only said it'll be 2D. I liked the 3D ones from Heroes V, in it the towns didn't need to look crowded, but on the other hand it lacked life and the lack of people or animations became more obvious, not to mention that in some cases it didn't even look like a practical place to live... well, most cases.

Inferno and Fortress seemed impregnable from the inside, Necropolis looked like you needed to fly to get by, Academy had a lot of redundant and empty space, not to mention a permanent danger of falling...

What I'd like is for the Towns to have a breath of life blown into them. I mean, why is it that Heroes 1 is the only one where the towns actually look lively? Why couldn't some of that idea carry on? The scale was horribly off, but at least you have people (well, beasts) there.

In Heroes 2 and 3 the towns simply look deserted and Heroes 4 accomplishes the feat of only feeling haunted instead. In Heroes 5 on the other hand feels like there was never anyone there. The towns are just monuments where no-one was supposed to live in.

So... if they're going to go the 2D route at least give us something for it. Populate those towns! Have people walking in the streets. Have the units you have access to also be part of the place. Better yet, instead of just bringing a window, make it so that you go to another screen when you click on the tavern. Show us those taverns like it once did in the Might and Magic games. Show us those creature dwellings from the inside. Show us the castle, and the town hall. Show us the magic guild and the market. That would go such a looooong way making the towns more than just the window you pop to buy creatures that time of the week.

Jester64
01-02-2011, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by SandroTheMaster:
This is driving me mad. The town screen is such an important piece in setting the atmosphere and still we haven't got a single sample!

They only said it'll be 2D. I liked the 3D ones from Heroes V, in it the towns didn't need to look crowded, but on the other hand it lacked life and the lack of people or animations became more obvious, not to mention that in some cases it didn't even look like a practical place to live... well, most cases.

Inferno and Fortress seemed impregnable from the inside, Necropolis looked like you needed to fly to get by, Academy had a lot of redundant and empty space, not to mention a permanent danger of falling...

What I'd like is for the Towns to have a breath of life blown into them. I mean, why is it that Heroes 1 is the only one where the towns actually look lively? Why couldn't some of that idea carry on? The scale was horribly off, but at least you have people (well, beasts) there.

In Heroes 2 and 3 the towns simply look deserted and Heroes 4 accomplishes the feat of only feeling haunted instead. In Heroes 5 on the other hand feels like there was never anyone there. The towns are just monuments where no-one was supposed to live in.

So... if they're going to go the 2D route at least give us something for it. Populate those towns! Have people walking in the streets. Have the units you have access to also be part of the place. Better yet, instead of just bringing a window, make it so that you go to another screen when you click on the tavern. Show us those taverns like it once did in the Might and Magic games. Show us those creature dwellings from the inside. Show us the castle, and the town hall. Show us the magic guild and the market. That would go such a looooong way making the towns more than just the window you pop to buy creatures that time of the week.

Well said. I think 2D screens wouldn't be bad bad after seeing the 3D town screens it seems more like a step backwards to pointlessly satisfy people who can't get out of the past.

kodial79
01-03-2011, 12:45 AM
Don't wanna burst your bubble, but the least you expect the better. It doesn't seem like there will be too many buildings in town anyway and surely not magic guilds. As far as I can tell, in the beginning they said there were not going to be any Town Screens at all and then later they changed that to 2D Town Screens. So, be glad instead we're getting any.

Kartabon
01-03-2011, 03:41 AM
I think it's better they don't spend time on making 3D town screens, since most of the people just don't even spend a minute looking at them. I prefer 2D screens, I loved them from previous Heroes, and I will surely love them in HoMM VI http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif 3D also consumes a lot of resources and you need graphical designers focused on a thing that particullarly isn't so important (in fact, as I said, is not important at all, few of us look at them, and I'm not one of those :P ).

So, what I actually agree with Sandro is the point of making the cities more alive, more people in the streets and your own units walking and talking with the citizens! That's a brilliant idea http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

kodial79
01-03-2011, 04:05 AM
Originally posted by Kartabon:
I think it's better they don't spend time on making 3D town screens, since most of the people just don't even spend a minute looking at them. I prefer 2D screens, I loved them from previous Heroes, and I will surely love them in HoMM VI http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif 3D also consumes a lot of resources and you need graphical designers focused on a thing that particullarly isn't so important (in fact, as I said, is not important at all, few of us look at them, and I'm not one of those :P ).

So, what I actually agree with Sandro is the point of making the cities more alive, more people in the streets and your own units walking and talking with the citizens! That's a brilliant idea http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I did love the 3D Town Screens and the fly-by camera mode. When all buildings were built, I would let the town's theme play while just staring at it. This is something I never bothered to do with the previous installments, since the towns then weren't much of an eyecandy to begin with. Especially H4's were an unforgiveable abomination. There's not a simple house that a citizen of the town, could be staying in. Just the town buildings with no building plan and in a random order.

I really worry about the town screens because it seems like we forced the devs to make them without their will, taking into account that there was not going to be any at first. I don't think any love is going to be put there. I can already see them being worse than H4, really.

And ofcourse, 3D town screens require more time and resources than 2D ones. But if they can't pull that through, it's their fault alone. Who told them to release the game in March when there's clearly not enough time to develop it as they should? Ubisoft that wants to turn it into a grade b low budget production. The whole game feels like it's shrinking and going back to 2D Town Screens from 3D ones, shows that too.

Dark-Whisperer
01-03-2011, 08:47 AM
I still can remember when I for the first time entered Sylvan city... My jaw dropped. I saw screenshots before release and still it left me amazed. 3D screens were for me one of great features of Heroes V. And what is purpose of making 2D or no town screens? To speed up game - where is fun in that. I want that AI plays fast so I can enjoy my turn longer. I want to look at my buildings, my city, my army, my territory. If I just click in and out of town, click to move and click to end turn the game might be black and white with 8bit graphic - but the truth is graphic matters and 2D town screens just give me too retro feeling.

Oakwarrior
01-03-2011, 08:56 AM
I thought the 3D screens looked like poo. Plus they were awfully slow (thanks to my equally bad computer, I believe http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ).

Pitsu
01-03-2011, 10:44 AM
I would like to point (once again) that originally the town screens were not meaningless eyecandies. They were user interface. In H2 you only have an exit button and arrows to next town as standard user interface. No more square-shaped unoriginal buttons. The town screen background itself is like a desktop wallpaper and the more structures you install into your town the more icons (new structures) appear on the wallpaper. Each icon is a link to a script(program). Town hall/castle is the icon for triggering build script, thief guild icon for intelligence overview etc. It could be done in 3D, but if you imagine a 3D desktop with 3D icons on your PC you probably admit that although it may be beautiful, fly-by and camera rotating make it problematic as user interface. If the town screen no more serves its function as artistic UI, then it is about as valuable as hero bios or such. Good to have but not a must. The traditional town screen, however, is a sample how user interface can be made a part of the atmosphere of the game, and there is no need to have ugly buttons in the game.

kodial79
01-03-2011, 11:13 AM
I don't remember very well now, but I'm pretty sure I could click on the buildings of the 3D Town Screens to use their functions. They just added the buttons there, to make it easier to control the town without having to go to each building. Same thing they did to H3 at least. So what are you talking about?

Pitsu
01-03-2011, 11:56 AM
I am talking exactly about the fact that they had to add the rounded button wheels because it was too cumbersome to click directly on buildings in H5 (though not impossible). But about H3 : where is the button you click when for instance building a new structure? Are you clicking on a traditional button or are you clicking on the town hall image? And what mends better into the atmosphere, the UI button that H5 had, or the town hall of H3?

http://www.gamershell.com/static/screenshots/3917/60386_full.jpg
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100920205829/egamia/images/thumb/0/0d/HeroesV_ElfTown.png/300px-HeroesV_ElfTown.png

Dark-Whisperer
01-03-2011, 12:15 PM
I personally never click on each of dwellings to buy creatures. I never had, I never will. So I don't really care if I click on button or on building if will provide list of creatures I can buy. That goes for making new buildings too. If I have available buildings or their prerequisites on one page I don't really care where do I click. I just want to see the result. That beautiful tree with all lights, smokes, tribal symbols growing with each building more and more majestic is just awesome. And Sylvan isn't even my favorite faction. H3 artwork of towns is also great but for me its just to "yesterday". If you take screenshots in HD resolution of H3 and H5 towns and put them side by side you will notice how much more advanced graphic in H5 is. Also what I can add is that actual town screen takes around 60% in H3 and 40% interface, in H5 its 80% town screen and 20% interface... so we get more artwork in H5. And I can buy, build and trade at same speed at both games. Its just goes down do you like 2D or 3D graphic more and how good/bad is your computer.

KingImp
01-03-2011, 12:20 PM
I'm personally fine with a return to 2D. Even though the moving 3D towns of Heroes 5 were nice to look at, that's all they were. You couldn't really use them to click on anything as it was a pain to find the structure you needed.

As for H3's towns, it's been a while, but I think I used to click on the Town/City Hall to build and buy units.

kodial79
01-03-2011, 12:57 PM
Yeah, you're right, I did not remember correctly. Been a long time, after all.

But anyway, I think it's a minor detail. It certainly is not a reason to drop the 3D Town Screens and anyway, it's not why they're dropping them.

It's as I explained to my other post: Too much time and resources to make something so majestic, which they're not willing to spend. That I call laziness, and nothing more.

They admitted to it, themselves.

C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s
01-03-2011, 01:22 PM
Guys, it seems that our plight has finally gotten Ubi's attention. This little forum should be getting some "official" attention soon.

LaBoule's transgressions might've caused an uproar, but you've got to try to see the silver lining to every bad situation. We might be seeing the beginnings of some silver. :O)

Patience. I'm poking them with a long pointy stick currently. *grin*

kodial79
01-03-2011, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s:
Guys, it seems that our plight has finally gotten Ubi's attention. This little forum should be getting some "official" attention soon.

LaBoule's transgressions might've caused an uproar, but you've got to try to see the silver lining to every bad situation. We might be seeing the beginnings of some silver. :O)

Patience. I'm poking them with a long pointy stick currently. *grin*

Does this have to do with the Town Screens too?? Current topic of conversation in this thread...

Do we get to see some of the new town screens? XD

C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s
01-03-2011, 01:49 PM
Let's put it this way...it was at the top of MY request list. :O)

I don't know what they plan to do as of yet. I just wanted to let you guys know that they're aware of the disgruntled fans here due to the lack of attention and they're meeting about it currently. Patience. You'll know when I know.

*rubs hands together greedily in anticipation* :O)

BeriadanL
01-03-2011, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s:
Let's put it this way...it was at the top of MY request list. :O)

I don't know what they plan to do as of yet. I just wanted to let you guys know that they're aware of the disgruntled fans here due to the lack of attention and they're meeting about it currently. Patience. You'll know when I know.

*rubs hands together greedily in anticipation* :O)
That's a good news! Finally we were heard http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s
01-03-2011, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by BeriadanL:
That's a good news! Finally we were heard http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

You were always heard. It was just a matter of getting them to act on what we relayed to them. I have a feeling they felt that the Facebook updates were fine. I (and others) really were stressing the fact that they weren't utilizing their own forums. It seems we got our point across finally...but I'll temper my enthusiasm until I see results.

*taps foot patiently* :O)

BeriadanL
01-03-2011, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BeriadanL:
That's a good news! Finally we were heard http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

You were always heard. It was just a matter of getting them to act on what we relayed to them. I have a feeling they felt that the Facebook updates were fine. I (and others) really were stressing the fact that they weren't utilizing their own forums. It seems we got our point across finally...but I'll temper my enthusiasm until I see results.

*taps foot patiently* :O) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
We didn't seen any updates on facebook for a while. They just could give us art works of all Stronghold units (because we already saw them all in in-game screenshots),that would be a good New Years present

Justice
01-03-2011, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s:
*rubs hands together greedily in anticipation* :O)

Why is it that you remind me of this guy?

http://agent007blog.com/files/2009/03/blofeld1.jpg

C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s
01-03-2011, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by Justice:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s:
*rubs hands together greedily in anticipation* :O)

Why is it that you remind me of this guy?

http://agent007blog.com/files/2009/03/blofeld1.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My skin isn't that pale. Oh, and it's blue. :O)

As for the rest....Bwahahahahahaha! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

SandroTheMaster
01-03-2011, 03:28 PM
All hail the blue genius.

I mean... genie.

Oh, and good to see you grace us with your holy visage, Justice. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

AAAAAAANYWAY. The point of this thread is both the lack of town previews so far AND discussing how to make them more lively.

I mean, it was so good the personality and detail you had inside the buildings in the Might and Magic games. For me the initial draw of those games was precisely visiting those cities and towns of the heroes games from the inside, since I played Heroes first. The training hall of Dagger Wound Isles and of Twilight were unique locales, as were the Blacksmith of Erathia and Tatalia.

So, in short, it'd be awesome to actually go inside those location you build in your town, and actually see it thrive as people start milling about and the creature dwellings start populating your city with new creatures. It wasn't too difficult to do in Heroes I, don't tell me it is too much for Heroes VI.

Justice
01-03-2011, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by SandroTheMaster:

Oh, and good to see you grace us with your holy visage, Justice. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif



It's called holidays and is good. If you wish to speak about holy visages I suggest directing your attention to the most Holy Alderbranch.

And before BTOG decides to ban me for going off topic, I like a nice looking townscreen coupled with nice music. 3D just makes it too complicated, in 2D you can get a nice, simple screen which isn't too cluttered and more easily seems to be alive. Did I mention I like it when it just is nice?

C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s
01-03-2011, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Justice:
It's called holidays and is good. If you wish to speak about holy visages I suggest directing your attention to the most Holy Alderbranchh.


Fixed. You forgot an "h". *grin*

Justice
01-03-2011, 07:13 PM
The Holy Alderbranch shall striketh thee down, thou who art the blue Blofeld!

wdcryer
01-05-2011, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by Pitsu:
I would like to point (once again) that originally the town screens were not meaningless eyecandies. They were user interface.

I definitely agree with this point. 3D screens looked pretty, but they were pretty difficult to use for anything practical. I would rather have a quick loading 2D town screen, which had some practical value as a UI. I want to be able to get in and out of town screens quickly. They should load quickly and I should be able to find what I want quickly. You move in and out of town screens constantly.

Of course, it's still important to me that the art is beautiful and the town doesn't look like a bunch of unrelated, uninhabited buildings.

Dergos
01-05-2011, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by wdcryer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pitsu:
I would like to point (once again) that originally the town screens were not meaningless eyecandies. They were user interface.

I definitely agree with this point. 3D screens looked pretty, but they were pretty difficult to use for anything practical. I would rather have a quick loading 2D town screen, which had some practical value as a UI. I want to be able to get in and out of town screens quickly. They should load quickly and I should be able to find what I want quickly. You move in and out of town screens constantly.

Of course, it's still important to me that the art is beautiful and the town doesn't look like a bunch of unrelated, uninhabited buildings. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i agree with this one, no h4 town screens those were bad. i also hope that like in h3 when you upgraded your town hall there were also more houses in the townscreen. this indicated that in a town with a capital more people lived then i a town which has a village hall. some little details perhaps but little details make a game that much more enjoyable


Originally posted by C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justice:
It's called holidays and is good. If you wish to speak about holy visages I suggest directing your attention to the most Holy Alderbranchh.


Fixed. You forgot an "h". *grin* </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

blasphemy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif burn the heathen http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif