PDA

View Full Version : When do we get this....as one map?



VFS-214_Hawk
07-30-2005, 04:17 PM
http://www.nzetc.org/etexts/WH2PMed/WH2PMe03a.jpg

Hoarmurath
07-30-2005, 04:40 PM
never, the game engine can't handle a map of this size.

MEGILE
07-30-2005, 05:22 PM
When CFS2 is released.

VFS-214_Hawk
07-30-2005, 05:28 PM
got a new engine?

MEGILE
07-30-2005, 05:32 PM
BoB maybe in 5 years.

Bob main theatre might be around that size, or a bit smaller.

DuxCorvan
07-30-2005, 05:56 PM
I see you have it yet... as one map. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

LEXX_Luthor
07-30-2005, 08:11 PM
PF Hawaii map is 1000km.

Since there are No Roads, No Rivers visible from the air, No Buildings, and No Airfields the Devs can place historically on one (1) map in time, the map engine can easily handle this. We place our own airfields using FMB and Test Runways, depending on what month of war we are simming.

I made my own map of the southwest Pacific, with Celebes island in the middle, Borneo on the west, and the tip of New Guinea on the east. But, its for StrikeFighters. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Its from satellite data, and the steep jungle mountain terrain is FB Kuban-esque, right up to the beaches in some places.

Tater-SW-
07-30-2005, 10:33 PM
http://members.spinn.net/~merrick/Stuff/Maps/the_slot.jpg

Those boxes are all current PF map sizes.

It would easily fit, and it's almost all water anyway, and has been said, should have zero roads, zero railroads, etc. Put grass or coral strips in with no structures at all associated with them.

tater

VT-51_Razor
07-31-2005, 12:30 AM
I don't see why Oleg couldn't put all of those islands on one map by shrinking the distances between them a bit. It was almost a 4-5 hour flight from Rabaul to the Canal. I doubt very much if anyone would want those kinds of distances on their maps anyway. If they could do the Gulf of Finland, it just doesn't make sense why they couldn't make a map of the majority of the Solomon chain or, as the yellow outline shows, part of New Britain. Their choice of the Guadalcanal map is almost laughable. What the heck were they smoking?!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Atomic_Marten
07-31-2005, 02:52 AM
Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
never, the game engine can't handle a map of this size.

The game engine or our machines? It seems to me that our engines won't be able to handle large maps in the near future..
About game engine, not sure tho.

Tater-SW-
07-31-2005, 06:52 AM
Ian posted somewhere (regarding a specific question from me) that there was no fundamental size limit, that in fact the limitation was mostly labor-based (bigger = more work)

tater

VFS-214_Hawk
07-31-2005, 07:28 AM
Thanks Tater

My reason for this is that some of us players dont mind actualy flying 45 minutes to a target. I would like this and enable only certain fields for a givin historic date/mission. In early, most fighters came from the Guadalcanal area up towards the southern tip of Bougainvile. Once the IJ forces are pushed back to Rabual, then the allied forces can moved up to Bouganvile. Then the map can change to Bouganville/New Britian. At the same time, the Brits can come in on the west side, New Guinea/New Britian and create the allied plan "Cartwheel" to push the IJ out of Rabaul.


Airfields can be created by the servers as long as spawn points are noted and placed around the fields as is the Midway spawnpoints. There were not many if any "grass" fields there. Most if not all were coral or beachhead runways with psp mats. I say let the servers create the objects for the fields...all we need is runways and spawnpoints.

Here is a screanshot of the map I created for Barokoma/Banika where VMF-214 flew from Banika to Ballale. I had to shorten the flight to 55 miles and call it Barakoma/Ballale becouse of the lack of islands in a given map.

I used Midway instead of Okinawa or another map due to the awsome spawnpoints, as noted in the screenshot, and the size of the airfield. I like the Wake Island map but the airfeild is a bit too small. Also, this screws the IJ by not being able to have a nice airfeild to operate out of with scenery. Spawn points are shown in white and in the direction the aircraft is pointing when it spawns.

http://www.geocities.com/vmf_214_blacksheep/spawnpoints.jpg

Thanks Oleg Team http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

VFS-214_Hawk
07-31-2005, 07:44 AM
Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
Ian posted somewhere (regarding a specific question from me) that there was no fundamental size limit, that in fact the limitation was mostly labor-based (bigger = more work)

tater

I wish I knew how, Id do it myself and submit it to Oleg http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

Tater-SW-
07-31-2005, 09:45 AM
It's pretty non-trivial from various posts that Ian has made (at simhq, mostly). If only Ian had the PTO bug we might have a hope of a decent map for PF---all the stuff to make GOOD PF maps is already in the game, nothing new needs to be created or coded. It just takes a little lateral thinking on the part of the map maker, combined with a good map choice in the first place, and a some actual knowledge of what the region should look like.

Honestly, the single worst failure of PF is the maps by a long shot. Better map design---even with the maps we have already---would make the game far more playable. Having more forest (the "2-D" forest that covers the inside of NG) come right up to the beach alone would have been a huge improvement. Right now a "barge hunt" type mission is really hard because there are so few places to hide them along the miles wide grassy coastlines. Airfields are in wide open spaces instead of hacked out of the jungle with trees within a couple plane-lengths of the runways, etc (odd, but there are more airfields hemmed in by forests on the eastern front maps than the pacific. Boggles the mind.).

tater

VFS-214_Hawk
07-31-2005, 03:25 PM
Your right, Ian is not interested. He refered to Luther.....now has anyone seen Luther?

Yo Luther, where the heck are ya?

VFS-214_Hawk
07-31-2005, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
PF Hawaii map is 1000km.

Since there are No Roads, No Rivers visible from the air, No Buildings, and No Airfields the Devs can place historically on one (1) map in time, the map engine can easily handle this. We place our own airfields using FMB and Test Runways, depending on what month of war we are simming.

I made my own map of the southwest Pacific, with Celebes island in the middle, Borneo on the west, and the tip of New Guinea on the east. But, its for StrikeFighters. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Its from satellite data, and the steep jungle mountain terrain is FB Kuban-esque, right up to the beaches in some places.

Luther? Is this the Luther we are so much in need of?

Tater-SW-
07-31-2005, 05:37 PM
He's also the reaosn we're complaining about stuff like this. Seems like asking "Hey, can we get more crappy maps?" instead of "Is there anyone who has a clue who would like to make a good PF map?"

tater

|CoB|_Spectre
07-31-2005, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by VFS-214_Hawk:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
PF Hawaii map is 1000km.

Since there are No Roads, No Rivers visible from the air, No Buildings, and No Airfields the Devs can place historically on one (1) map in time, the map engine can easily handle this. We place our own airfields using FMB and Test Runways, depending on what month of war we are simming.
QUOTE]

Luther? Is this the Luther we are so much in need of?

No, they're talking about Ilya "Luthier" Shevchenko, the guy that used to run il2center.com. He seemed to be the primary project guy behind Pacific Fighters. He used to be fairly active on these boards (as Oleg was), but seemingly dropped out of sight about the time Pacific Fighters was in late development, leading to much wild speculation. The first post I'd seen from him in a great while was his announcement that Oleg had been in the first of his two auto accidents.

Grey_Mouser67
07-31-2005, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
It's pretty non-trivial from various posts that Ian has made (at simhq, mostly). If only Ian had the PTO bug we might have a hope of a decent map for PF---all the stuff to make GOOD PF maps is already in the game, nothing new needs to be created or coded. It just takes a little lateral thinking on the part of the map maker, combined with a good map choice in the first place, and a some actual knowledge of what the region should look like.

Honestly, the single worst failure of PF is the maps by a long shot. Better map design---even with the maps we have already---would make the game far more playable. Having more forest (the "2-D" forest that covers the inside of NG) come right up to the beach alone would have been a huge improvement. Right now a "barge hunt" type mission is really hard because there are so few places to hide them along the miles wide grassy coastlines. Airfields are in wide open spaces instead of hacked out of the jungle with trees within a couple plane-lengths of the runways, etc (odd, but there are more airfields hemmed in by forests on the eastern front maps than the pacific. Boggles the mind.).

tater

I'd agree along with the lack of continuation of any particular theater....there are maps that are ok for carrier operations but that is it. So many of the maps don't have an enemy airbase to fly from...New Guinea could have been cool but the modeled the wrong end!

Both a lack of planes and appropriate maps...AFAIC the Hawaii map was a waste of time and the Singapore maps have little use too...A map of New Guinea, Solomon Chain, and some of the Other island chains like Marshall, Gilberts, Carolines and Ryuku's along with the appropriate aircraft to fly would have made a world of difference....

Just wait till the first developer gets it right and develops the CBI theater down to the Burma road and the rice patties! whoa, like N Africa, what a gem that would be.

A.K.Davis
07-31-2005, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by |CoB|_Spectre:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VFS-214_Hawk:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
PF Hawaii map is 1000km.

Since there are No Roads, No Rivers visible from the air, No Buildings, and No Airfields the Devs can place historically on one (1) map in time, the map engine can easily handle this. We place our own airfields using FMB and Test Runways, depending on what month of war we are simming.
QUOTE]

Luther? Is this the Luther we are so much in need of?

No, they're talking about Ilya "Luthier" Shevchenko, the guy that used to run il2center.com. He seemed to be the primary project guy behind Pacific Fighters. He used to be fairly active on these boards (as Oleg was), but seemingly dropped out of sight about the time Pacific Fighters was in late development, leading to much wild speculation. The first post I'd seen from him in a great while was his announcement that Oleg had been in the first of his two auto accidents. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Luthier is working on other projects now. Our chance of new or revised Pacific maps is somewhere between 1 in 999,999,999 to 1 in 1,000,000,000.

Loki-PF
07-31-2005, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
never, the game engine can't handle a map of this size.

Hoarmurath proves his veracity yet again....

Sherman8r
08-01-2005, 12:44 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/353.gifBougainville! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif what a name!!

Oh wait! I used to live there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VFS-214_Hawk
08-01-2005, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by Loki-PF:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
never, the game engine can't handle a map of this size.

Hoarmurath proves his veracity yet again.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

for some reason he always seams to be one of the first to reply to all posts!

VFS-214_Hawk
08-01-2005, 03:39 PM
...and some pretty good replys to this same thread over at SimHQ
http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb....topic;f=127;t=004123 (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=127;t=004123)

Hoarmurath
08-01-2005, 04:06 PM
That's easy, it's what was told us when PF became available... It can be right, it can be true, i don't know, i'm not Oleg, i'm not luthier, and i'm not ian boy either.

If finally ian boy think that it is possible, nice, he certainly know better than me.

If you are annoyed that i answered your post, i suggest you go posting elsewhere? You can do it at CWOS, i never post there.

For people that brag so much about freedom of speech in their country, i find you rather quick to deny that freedom to other people in this community.

VFS-214_Hawk
08-01-2005, 04:15 PM
see what I mean?

LEXX_Luthor
08-01-2005, 05:37 PM
Ya, and PF Hawaii map is still 1000km, same size since last thread page. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Stigler_9_JG52
08-01-2005, 08:06 PM
ROFL; I and many others been flying over this entire area for a couple of years now. That is, Tater's larger map with the relevant half of New Guinea.

Target:Rabaul (http://www.targetware.net)

Guadalcanal, Coral Sea, Milne Bay, Assault on Moresby, Slot, Bougainville, Siege of Rabaul, Bismark Sea Battle, all of it.

bird_brain
08-02-2005, 10:12 AM
When Pacific Fighters was planned, I am sure more of "The Slot" was going to be included.

They went to all the trouble of including complete sets of VMF-214 "Black Sheep" skins and VF-17 "Jolly Rogers" skins too. You can tell from the early Guadalcanal map that it could have been placed further southeast and had more of the island chain on the same map. Why would they commission skin sets for maps that don't exist? Simple... because they planned on making them and ran out of time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

The production & distribution schedule from Ubi-soft probably forced them to quit working on partially completed maps and drop flyable airplanes that weren't done too. Don't forget that PF was originally a 3rd party project using the FB engine, but was taken over by 1C to get it finished.

Will they ever go back and finish the Solomons? Probably not, but it sure would be nice. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Hoarmurath
08-02-2005, 10:51 AM
They didn't commissioned the skins you mention... These skins were done by beta testers, and included later.

Tater-SW-
08-02-2005, 04:08 PM
Yeah, bird brain, I think you are attributing a level of project management that simeply didn't exist. It was more throw isolated stuff in a pot, and stir, IMO.

tater

Stigler_9_JG52
08-02-2005, 04:32 PM
No, I think the problem was a bit more profound than that.

It seems to my jaundiced eye to be a total lack of understanding of the Pacific Theatre.

They thought they could just put "the right theatre" planes in, add a palm tree or two and voila.

It shows in the maps. You can't "postage stamp" the Pacific like you can areas of the vast Russian steppes. The islands and their proximity to each other are crucial in simulating the theatre. Fuel considerations, search, SUPPLY, all these considerations had much more to do with how or if planes could be employed in whatever role they were assigned.

Also, the lack of structure in the IL-2 system really shows up here. Whereas, in East Front IL-2, you can put Yak 7s and LaGG-3s over Smolensk...and then put La7s over it and pretty much still be accurate for *some* stage of the war, you can't just put any plane anywhere in the Pacific. Some didn't have the range to be present in some areas. Just one example.

VFS-214_Hawk
08-02-2005, 05:17 PM
Things that make ya go hmmmmmmmm

DuxCorvan
08-03-2005, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by A.K.Davis:
Luthier is working on other projects now.

Luthier isn't even working in entertainment software anymore. He is in cell phone industry now.

And for those that keep asking: abandon all hope. There will be no more maps or ships in PF. Feel lucky if we are given just a handful of the planes they were working on -tho I am skeptical about their number and variety, too.

csThor
08-03-2005, 09:39 AM
Stig - PF was supposed to be a 3rd Party project with minimal Maddox Games invovlement. It didn't work out and Maddox Games had to pick up the shards and glue them together so the game could be sold at all. Don't blame them for not investimg even more time into something they didn't do on their own in the first place.

Tully__
08-07-2005, 12:04 AM
IIRC the original choice of map size limit was dictated by available RAM in "typical" user systems. The size is not dictated by map area, but by file size (number of objects). As far as I'm aware, the Gulf of Finland is still one of the largest (if not the largest) map in the game with regard to how much memory it uses.

jeroen_R90S
08-09-2005, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
I made my own map of the southwest Pacific, with Celebes island in the middle, Borneo on the west, and the tip of New Guinea on the east. But, its for StrikeFighters. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Its from satellite data, and the steep jungle mountain terrain is FB Kuban-esque, right up to the beaches in some places.

Have screenshot of parts of it? Pleeeeaase? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Just curious.

Jeroen

bird_brain
08-15-2005, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
They didn't commissioned the skins you mention... These skins were done by beta testers, and included later.
Nice skins, any idea who did them?

ElAurens
08-15-2005, 09:37 PM
The P40B and C and the Hawk 81, as well as the Wildcats were done by Hammerd. I think the Corsairs were too. Not sure about F6F.

Sharkey888
08-19-2005, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by DuxCorvan:


Luthier isn't even working in entertainment software anymore. He is in cell phone industry now.





So that's what happened to my cell service http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

goshikisen
08-21-2005, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:
No, I think the problem was a bit more profound than that.

It seems to my jaundiced eye to be a total lack of understanding of the Pacific Theatre.


The developers have an obvious enthusiasm and passion for the subject matter when it comes to the Eastern Front... unfortunately it's also apparent that this same passion doesn't exist for the Pacific. It's not that they aren't interested in it... they just aren't enthusiasts.

You have to wonder what Luthier's original driving motivation was for PF. Was he thinking "CASH!" or was he really interested in the history? If Oleg and Maddox Games had to pick up the pieces of a half-assed, half finished project then you can't blame them for not being too enthused about it. What PF needed was a development team that was not only capable of completing the project but also passionate (for lack of a better word) about the subject matter.

Luthier in the cell phone industry... was that him I saw in the little kiosk at the mall hawking cell service to teenagers?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/goshikisen/cellphone.jpg

Regards, Goshikisen.