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View Full Version : Ju88 Vs He111?



ytareh
03-02-2008, 01:27 PM
Dont know about in real life but in this game it seems the 111 is a much more stable bomber ,faster climber and general better all rounder.Is this just something im 'doing wrong'-like how a noob would find a 109F4 a 'better ' plane than a 190 A4-A6 or does anyone else agree.When it comes to loosing alt while on level stabiliser the 111 seems waaay better....

I_KG100_Prien
03-02-2008, 01:54 PM
Wouldn't say the 111 is a better all-rounder.. The 88 has a leg up with being able to dive bomb (good for precision strikes). But both bombers are good in their elements.

I give the 111 an advantage in the defense department, with the ventral guns and the more open view for the dorsal gunner. You must remember that each plane is a completely different design with different roles.

As for the altitude loss while on level stab.. It's easy to correct with proper elevator trim and throttle setting. Either plane when trimmed right will stay nice and level and maintain the desired altitude.

Personal preference though.. I take to the skies in the Ju-88. I enjoy the higher speed and dive-bomb capability. Just wish it could carry torps..

But then again who needs torps when you can skip bomb :wink:

na85
03-02-2008, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by I_KG100_Prien:

But then again who needs torps when you can skip bomb :wink:

Agree. Once you learn how to skip-bomb properly torps become pretty much useless.

KG26_Alpha
03-02-2008, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by ytareh:
Dont know about in real life but in this game it seems the 111 is a much more stable bomber ,faster climber and general better all rounder.Is this just something im 'doing wrong'-like how a noob would find a 109F4 a 'better ' plane than a 190 A4-A6 or does anyone else agree.When it comes to loosing alt while on level stabiliser the 111 seems waaay better....

Ju88A4 is payload critical in comparison to He111H2/H6
And
Ju88 2 x SC 2000kg is a fantasy payload in IL2 and a total overload on the aircraft http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Also
I did a TAS speed check on these bombers a few patches ago and found them to be much slower than historical data from "Janes".

Any how

Use the torps with the bombsite full up at 20m msl @ 170kph, when you get good at it you can use the bombsite like a periscope and calculate the lead on the torp to hit a moving ship from a safe distace from shipping gunnery.

The Ju88's Revi is a great tool @ 1200m dive bombing from 4-5000m. Keeps you high an safe from the enemy flak. You have to have good eyes to spot the enemy at those alts though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tater-SW-
03-02-2008, 04:07 PM
torpedoes are a joke though since ships don't evade, and there are no realistic torpedo parameters. Real air-dropped fish were dropped VERY close for any chance at a hit. Dropping much farther than 1000m is exploiting unrealistic game engine limitations, IMO.

Skip bombing... I love skip bombing, and lobbied for it for PF (the fusing had to change so that they worked vs ships with delay). That said, it is grossly overused in il-2. It was SOP for bombers in the SWPA (US and commonwealth), but the IJA and IJN simply did not use the technique. I've not read of the LW using it, but the RAF did it before the USAAF (that's where we got the idea, actually).

If it wasn't part of a given Air Force's doctrine, it's sorta cheating, IMO.

Odd that the german planes (russian to a lesser extent) got so many bomb types in Il-2 and no one else did. Love to have a cluster bomb for the B-29s to firebomb japan http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

general_kalle
03-03-2008, 01:31 AM
Heinkel have better climbing.
Ju88 is faster, can divebomb and have more possibilities in payload.

but i prefer Heinkel, the 88 is a DOG to maneuver and climb with

Bewolf
03-03-2008, 02:16 AM
Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
torpedoes are a joke though since ships don't evade, and there are no realistic torpedo parameters. Real air-dropped fish were dropped VERY close for any chance at a hit. Dropping much farther than 1000m is exploiting unrealistic game engine limitations, IMO.

Skip bombing... I love skip bombing, and lobbied for it for PF (the fusing had to change so that they worked vs ships with delay). That said, it is grossly overused in il-2. It was SOP for bombers in the SWPA (US and commonwealth), but the IJA and IJN simply did not use the technique. I've not read of the LW using it, but the RAF did it before the USAAF (that's where we got the idea, actually).

If it wasn't part of a given Air Force's doctrine, it's sorta cheating, IMO.

Odd that the german planes (russian to a lesser extent) got so many bomb types in Il-2 and no one else did. Love to have a cluster bomb for the B-29s to firebomb japan http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Skipbombing AFAIK was welll known and used by the LW.

The Ju88 is by far the more modern design compared to the He111. The Heinkel is a good, sturdy bomber with a nice payload. Same goes to the Junkers. The 88 is faster, though, also able to divebomb and has this nifty revi gunsight. Probably the most versatile bomber in the game, leaving nothing to complain but maybe a bit better defensive armament. Had it a couple of 20 mm in the nose I'd have no problem engaging other bombers, or on occasion, fighters with it.

anarchy52
03-03-2008, 03:05 AM
Heinkel is sturdy, crew is well protected and climbs better. It does have totaly silly ground handling though.

Ju-88 on the other hand is a deathtrap (if anyone actually hits you, crew is dead). I don't think its structurally stronger then He-111. It has a weird "balancing on the tip of the needle stability problems on low speed" with wild changes in pitch with speed change and tends to get you PKed on crash landing. Feels overloaded even when empty. Probably the hardest aircraft in game to land smoothly (that's the only thing I like about it, you need to really concentrate on landing). Fighter like handling my a$$ (but then again if they ment *german* fighter handling, it makes sense).


It seems that in most planes Il-2 the only way to hit the crew is to hit through a window. Ju-88 has plenty of them.

On a side note: I've only killed a pilot in B25 once firing from its 12 O'clock high, hit him 'tween the eyes through the glass with 13mm peashooter.

Xiolablu3
03-03-2008, 12:27 PM
The Ju88 is more of a fighter bomber than the He111, which is a pure bomber.

The He111 is a sturdy, lumbering plane, whereas the Ju88 is a more streamlined, and much nicer with no bomb load, but with a bomb load it feels overloaded.

Tater-SW-
03-03-2008, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by Bewolf:
Skipbombing AFAIK was welll known and used by the LW.

I've never read an account of a mast-height, skip-bombing attack by a LW bomber. That said, the med/ETO isn't my primary area of interest.

Can you suggest a book that talks about this?

tater

Stew278
03-03-2008, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
torpedoes are a joke though since ships don't evade, and there are no realistic torpedo parameters. Real air-dropped fish were dropped VERY close for any chance at a hit. Dropping much farther than 1000m is exploiting unrealistic game engine limitations, IMO.



Anyone remember how difficult torpedo's were to deploy in the old Dynamix game Aces of the Pacific? I seem to recall having to get real low (<100m) and real slow (<180kt or so) otherwise the eel wouldn't run true. Much too easy in this one.

Also when comparing the Ju-88 and He-111 in this game don't forget we have an early model Ju-88. Later models, especially ones designed specifically for dive-bombing or interceptor missions, might perform better.

hobnail
03-04-2008, 02:36 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
The Ju88 is more of a fighter bomber than the He111, which is a pure bomber.

Just because a Garbage truck is faster than a tractor doesn't make it a race-car!

Xiolablu3
03-04-2008, 04:18 AM
The Ju88 was buiolt in Fighter versions, and Night fighter versions.

Which in my opinion makes it 'more of a fighter' than the He111, and hence why the He111 is more stable when carrying heavy loads.

JtD
03-04-2008, 12:32 PM
Skip bombing was used by the Luftwaffe.

And to speak about "unhistorical advantages", we can talk about that once skip bombing becomes realistic in game. Currently, it is a joke. As are ships damage models.

Personally I prefer the Ju-88 because it looks better. Performance wise, there is little to choose between it and the He-111.

JG53Frankyboy
03-04-2008, 12:49 PM
main advantage of the Ju88 in game is its much higher max dive speed compared to the He111.

and actually, in my experience, it also climbs better and is faster................