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View Full Version : TO DEV. TEAM, Calculator Rulers............



Redwine
09-27-2004, 11:36 AM
Many time ago in my asks to the Team, I had asked about the posibility to include a plastic set of Calculator Rulers, I wrote, if it is not posible, a printable set will be welcome.........

I was thinking in a third option........

What about to have them in a game screen as another instrument ?

Just a hot key to access to a new screen with the calculator rulers movables with the mouse........

Not complex and a very good option...........

We are working in to introduce this option in SH2 right now................

Kolbus from 24th flotilla had developed a good set of rulers, and we are working to put them into SH2..........

A similar solution can be done in SH3...........

Just an idea...........

Redwine
09-27-2004, 11:36 AM
Many time ago in my asks to the Team, I had asked about the posibility to include a plastic set of Calculator Rulers, I wrote, if it is not posible, a printable set will be welcome.........

I was thinking in a third option........

What about to have them in a game screen as another instrument ?

Just a hot key to access to a new screen with the calculator rulers movables with the mouse........

Not complex and a very good option...........

We are working in to introduce this option in SH2 right now................

Kolbus from 24th flotilla had developed a good set of rulers, and we are working to put them into SH2..........

A similar solution can be done in SH3...........

Just an idea...........

bertgang
09-27-2004, 11:41 AM
An excellent idea, I vote for.

jeroen-79
09-27-2004, 02:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bertgang:
I vote for. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No, you don't, you don't have permission. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But sliderules and plottingboards would be nice.
Maybe a manual map-plot?
And a handfull of stopwatches.

Redwine
09-27-2004, 05:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bertgang:
An excellent idea, I vote for. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thanks a lot.

It is not more job than the Bearing/Heading instrument in SH2.

Must be a central fixed dial, with two rotative wheels outside with a cursor.......... able to be moved with the mouse..........

And we can have an "in-game" full functions rule .............

Will be very simple and very nice............

CB..
09-27-2004, 06:08 PM
yes i agree...the difference between auto tdc and manual is too great at the moment in sh2..
one is redicoulously easy the other somtimes a litle too involved (for me anyhow)..
what i would love to see is a half way house option as well...where i can go to the map screen (perhaps) and see an overlay of the protractor or other targeting aid...and one of the crew would "suggest" a setting for the tdc.. which i can then set into the tdc by hand myself...as i get more profecient i could perhaps be able to turn of the crew members advice and do it completely alone. ..

some sort of middle ground instead of all or nothing is needed i reckon..

Leif...
09-28-2004, 12:15 AM
I could use a ruler for calculating the range, but what else is there to calculate?
Do you want to replace the TDC and calculate the fire solution manually?

Leif€¦

bertgang
09-28-2004, 02:58 AM
Italian captains were forced to do so: no TDC in our boats.

Redwine
09-28-2004, 05:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Leif...:
I could use a ruler for calculating the range, but what else is there to calculate?
Do you want to replace the TDC and calculate the fire solution manually?

Leif€¦ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have a ruler to calculate range using the "knowed" mast head height and angle measured by the scope........

You can have this ruler alone or incorporated in a "all in one" ruler.........

The calculations you can make are......

1] Range, using knowed mast head height and mast head angle.

2] Target Relative Course, using 3 bearing measurements.

3] Target Speed, using 2 bearing measurement and 2 range measurement, (Cosin Theoreme solver ruler)


This is the data you need to know to input into the TDC.

With this data yo go to the TDC and input.........

Range
Target Relative Course
Target Speed

This was the real method..............

Calculator Rulers was attached to the real periscopes........(german and american periscopes) some times under the view finder to be used by the captain, and some times at the back of the periscope to be used by the first officer............ of course they have surely a table version too...........


Of course you can go forward (if you want) and assume you have a TDC failure or, you are in the WW1..........and continue the calculations manually.........look at mi manual shooting tutorial at my signature, (read Bertgang comment)

Leif...
09-28-2004, 07:08 AM
What is €Target Relative Course€?

The four major data set on the TDC is
Range, Angle on bow, Bearing and Target speed.

So is Target Relative Course another name for Angle on bow, or is it something else invented by SHII?

Leif€¦

bertgang
09-28-2004, 07:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Leif...:
What is €Target Relative Course€?

The four major data set on the TDC is
Range, Angle on bow, Bearing and Target speed.

So is Target Relative Course another name for Angle on bow, or is it something else invented by SHII?

Leif€¦ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe that you found the answer by yourself; differnt ways to say the same thing.

Redwine
09-28-2004, 11:39 AM
Leif.... Bertgang answer you.....

In the TDC you input the relative angle of the target regarding your nose heading, taking your present heading as "zero".

jeroen-79
09-28-2004, 12:29 PM
Angle on the bow is where you are on the enemy's bow.
Your own bow/heading has nothing to do with AOB.

Redwine
09-28-2004, 04:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jeroen-79:
Angle on the bow is where you are on the enemy's bow.
Your own bow/heading has nothing to do with AOB. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thats correct, AOB is the angle from the target displacement line to your position at determined moment or target position..........

Into the TDC we must to input the relative angle between our course and the target one.......

Finally this AOB at determined point and the bearing at this same determined point is used to detrmine this "relative" angle between the target course and our own.............

Kapitanleutnant--Martes86--Mix
09-28-2004, 04:44 PM
Nice to know about your proyect Redwine, I hope it goes well.

Redwine
09-28-2004, 04:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kapitanleutnant--Martes86--Mix:
Nice to know about your proyect Redwine, I hope it goes well. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


It is a little hard to create a new screen in the SH2 project, Martes86, due to this I am requesting to have this "form the box" in SH3, this is a simple job for Developers, but is not easy to made on a finished sim.

RedTerex
09-29-2004, 12:04 AM
My 2 pence worth:

A slide-rule would be great and so accurate in keeping with the times aka 1940's

I beleive that I posted earlier on this forum that a slide-rule and the old 'grey matter'(brains) were the computers of the day along with a pen and pad!

Its sad in a way that today we are forgetting how to use mathematics and rely on calculators and computers to work it all out for us.

Leif...
09-29-2004, 03:40 AM
I think we still have some confusion regarding AOB. The bearing to the target is the angle between our bow to the imaginary line that stretches from our tower to the target, I think we all agree on that. So bearing 90 means that the target is on our right side.

Now Angle on bow is the bearing seen from the target looking towards us. Example, if the target where on our right side we would have bearing 90 degrees, and if the target where running straight toward us trying to ram us in our starboard side the AOB would be zero degrees.

No other angles are needed, enter bearing 90 and AOB 0 straight into the TDC. That is the way it should be, if other angles are needed/used then it€s something invented by the simulator/game makers.

Leif€¦

Redwine
09-29-2004, 06:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Leif...:
I think we still have some confusion regarding AOB. The bearing to the target is the angle between our bow to the imaginary line that stretches from our tower to the target, I think we all agree on that. So bearing 90 means that the target is on our right side.

Now Angle on bow is the bearing seen from the target looking towards us. Example, if the target where on our right side we would have bearing 90 degrees, and if the target where running straight toward us trying to ram us in our starboard side the AOB would be zero degrees.

No other angles are needed, enter bearing 90 <span class="ev_code_RED">and AOB</span> 0 straight into the TDC. That is the way it should be, if other angles are needed/used then it€s something invented by the simulator/game makers.

Leif€¦ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Hi Leif.......

Nobody is inventing new settings http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

You have done a good description of each angle but your mistake is, in the TDC you do not input AOB...........instead you input Relative Target Course.

The line of Bearing to target, your course and the target course make a triangle...........

The addition of the 3 angles of a triangle is 180 deg.

In example, you are runing to intercept a target, target bearing is 075, AOB is -075, the remainig angle will be

180 - (75 + 75) = 180 - 150 = 30

Relative target course will be

360 - 30 = 330

Then the input for the TDC will be not
AOB = 75

will be 330.

Plus..... target bearing 075, plus target range, plus target speed............

Just go to the SH2 TDC in the first intrument at top left.........and you will see it clear..........

http://www.iespana.es/rotteufel/htdc_tutorial/htdcexercise_005.htm

Redwine
09-29-2004, 06:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedTerex:
My 2 pence worth:

A slide-rule would be great and so accurate in keeping with the times aka 1940's

I beleive that I posted earlier on this forum that a slide-rule and the old 'grey matter'(brains) were the computers of the day along with a pen and pad!

Its sad in a way that today we are forgetting how to use mathematics and rely on calculators and computers to work it all out for us. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


That so good too........

Rulers in slider form instead of rotative charts form may be so good........

At this moment, in SH2 the main problem we have is the round rulers has the dials a little bit unreadable........ numbers are a little bit small.......we need to increase the rulers size at full screen and there are no palce where.......... i am thinking in the captain room...........

But in a slider form the dial can be increased and the number can be moe readables........

We are testing that now...........

A good choice can be to make the calculator rulers as 2 or 3 sliders, the same like as the periscope charts sliders at bottom of the map screen and movables with the mouse........in example............

Leif...
09-29-2004, 07:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Redwine:
In example, you are runing to intercept a target, target bearing is 075, AOB is -075, the remainig angle will be

180 - (75 + 75) = 180 - 150 = 30

Relative target course will be

360 - 30 = 330

Then the input for the TDC will be not
AOB = 75

will be 330.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ok, I understand the €œrelative target course€ definition now. Although I€m pretty sure that angle where never used with a German Vorhaltrechner.

They used AOB entered as either red 0-180 or green 0-180 degrees depending of course on which side the target where showing the u-boat. That is a fact!

The relative target course angle is not needed when calculating the fire solution. I have no idea why they used it in SHII. (Probably because they never looked at the real thing.)

I sure hope SHIII fixes this. Also when we are at it, the range dial in SHII is linear while the real thing has a logarithmic scale. The logarithmic scale of course being much more functional as it have a higher resolution for close distances.

Leif€¦

Kapitanleutnant--Martes86--Mix
09-29-2004, 08:19 AM
Calculator rulers... UP!

C'mon boys, UP!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

kolbus
09-29-2004, 08:34 AM
Una gran idea. La sensaci³n de realismo ser*a muy elevada. Además, SHIII ser*a le mejor simulado de uboots jamás publicado.

Espero que los desarrolladores del juego atiendan nuestra petici³n.

Un saludo.

-----------------------------------------------

A great idea. The realism sensation would be very high. In addition, SHIII would be the better uboots simulator never published.

I hope that the game developers take care of our request.

A greeting.

Redwine
09-29-2004, 12:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Leif...:
Ok, I understand the €œrelative target course€ definition now. Although I€m pretty sure that angle where never used with a German Vorhaltrechner. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hi Leif..........

Vorhaltrechner means TDC ?


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Leif.....
The relative target course angle is not needed when calculating the fire solution. I have no idea why they used it in SHII. (Probably because they never looked at the real thing.)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do not knows how works real german's TDCs, but this problem is easy to understand.......

You can design the TDC to compute diferent data..........

But in the case of SH2 you input Relative Target course not AOB.

You can design a computer wich input bearing and AOB, and the TDC computes the remaining third angle, but the computer needs to knows the direction of the target if it is going left or right.........

I think so due to this in SH2 they used directly Relative Target Course, the Relative Target course needle inputs the direction .........to green or red zone.......

May be in real german TDCs it was as you tells I not have info........

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Leif...:
I sure hope SHIII fixes this. Also when we are at it, the range dial in SHII is linear while the real thing has a logarithmic scale. The logarithmic scale of course being much more functional as it have a higher resolution for close distances.
Leif€¦ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

An expanded scale for range and other instruments as Depth Meter will be welcome.......... in real life there was a second depth meter to have a more precise scale dial at small depths.......

A expanded scale under 3000m will be welcome.

Kapitanleutnant--Martes86--Mix
09-29-2004, 02:21 PM
Si no me equivoco, hay un medidor de profundidades pequeas ya implantado en el SH3.

---------------------

If I'm not wrong, there already is a small depth dial implemented in SH3.

Leif...
09-30-2004, 12:37 AM
&gt;Vorhaltrechner means TDC ?

Yes, they used a Siemens S3 Torpedo Vorhalt Rechner which translates to Torpedo aim-off calculater/computer.

I wrote a (partial) explanation of the German TDC some time ago which can be seen at
http://home.att.net/~subbase2/TDC.htm
That page explains how the AOB where entered into the TDC.

Leif€¦

Redwine
09-30-2004, 06:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Leif...:
&gt;Vorhaltrechner means TDC ?

Yes, they used a Siemens S3 Torpedo Vorhalt Rechner which translates to Torpedo aim-off calculater/computer.

I wrote a (partial) explanation of the German TDC some time ago which can be seen at
http://home.att.net/~subbase2/TDC.htm
That page explains how the AOB where entered into the TDC.

Leif€¦ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I understand you Leif, as in all trigonometrical problem there are many ways to solve it.........

TDC can solve Relative Target Course knowing Target Bearing and AOB too.........depending on TDC design.........

In example if you have the target just at bearing 090, and he is runing to ram you,........

Into a TDC with AOB instrument you will input "Zero", and in one TDC with Relative Target Course you will input 270.........

When we can enjoy that amazing job ?

Redwine
09-30-2004, 06:48 AM
This is what I am talking about.........

Here is a set of calculator rulers incorporated into SH2, they works fine..........but it is not the final wheel version.

Rulers was developed by Kolbus from 24th Flotilla.

A new Wheel more complex is under developement to be printed or builded in plstic by Kolbus.

And a new one very more simplyfied is under developement to be incorporated into the sim SH2 by Kolbus too.

(Girl not included in the mod http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )


http://personales.ciudad.com.ar/pietraroja/SH2/Reglas.jpg

Beltza
09-30-2004, 08:56 AM
This may be the ultrarealism in the sim SHIII. Is a great idea.

Congratulations for your work Redwine.

////////////////////////////////

Esto puede ser lo máximo en realismo en el simulador SHIII.

Enhorabuena por tu trabajo (al que ya nos tienes acostumbrados, por cierto), Redwine.

Pep_U-236
10-02-2004, 01:01 PM
Yes, we need the "Wheel & girl kit"... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

... nice job Redwine.

--------

Si, ya tardais en incluir el "kit rueda-vampiresa" de serie...

... eres cojonudo Redwine (traducci³n libre).

Bye all.

http://www.24flotilla.com/~ODSH/pep/kamerad.jpg

Redwine
10-02-2004, 04:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pep_U-236:
Yes, we need the "Wheel & girl kit"... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

... nice job Redwine.

--------

Si, ya tardais en incluir el "kit rueda-vampiresa" de serie...

... eres cojonudo Redwine (_traducci³n libre_).

Bye all.

http://www.24flotilla.com/~ODSH/pep/kamerad.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks a lot Pep, my job was only to put the wheels into the sim, we need to give thanks to all guys of the 24th Flotilla, specially to Kolbus and Beltza..............

A better final version is under job...........

It is necesary to elimitate some things and to introduce some others........... if we can do it, this mod will be another step forward done by the 24th flotilla in hardcore submarine simulation...........

kolbus
10-03-2004, 07:42 AM
An advance of the work. Is a revision corrected and improved of the wiz wheel and not the definitive version, but is already done with tga archives, and its resolution will be approximately the same or better.

http://tinypic.com/axsg7

Uhmm... I am thinking about where to put our explosive woman http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif . Perhaps laid down? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif.