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michapma
06-19-2003, 05:42 PM
It occured to me only recently that we often discuss the lack of possibility for modelling peripheral vision in sims. I know that WWII pilots virtually (no pun please) always wore flight goggles in combat missions. Now I've never worn a pair of WWII goggles, but I can well imagine that they severely restrict peripheral vision.

What do you think?

Regards,
Mike

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<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr valign="top"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project</font> (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

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Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

michapma
06-19-2003, 05:42 PM
It occured to me only recently that we often discuss the lack of possibility for modelling peripheral vision in sims. I know that WWII pilots virtually (no pun please) always wore flight goggles in combat missions. Now I've never worn a pair of WWII goggles, but I can well imagine that they severely restrict peripheral vision.

What do you think?

Regards,
Mike

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<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr valign="top"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project</font> (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="left" valign="top">Hardware issues:
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 05:52 PM
I cant get goggles to fit me anyway/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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michapma
06-19-2003, 05:54 PM
See that just proves evolution. P-39 pilots, and especially Jag, are always looking out both sides of the plane during scissors movements.

Next answer, please.

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<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr valign="top"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project</font> (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="left" valign="top">Hardware issues:
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 05:59 PM
The answer is yes. I mean, no. I mean, you can wear goggles if thats your thing.

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 06:02 PM
Hey very interesting thought Mich...The periphal vision is all but gone with the goggles worn by pilots....why did they wear them then....anyone know??Could it be that maybe they tuned you more into your target?

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 06:06 PM
In open cockpit plane, they keep bugs and wind out of your eyes. In closed cockpit planes, they remove sun glare.

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 06:13 PM
blue_on_blue wrote:
- In open cockpit plane, they keep bugs and wind out
- of your eyes. In closed cockpit planes, they remove
- sun glare.
-
-

It also stops you getting blood in yer eyes when flak blows the top of yer head off.

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 06:19 PM
Wouldnt an ordinary pair of glasses-sun do the trick without blocking periphal?Why does the 109 have a reticle dimmer on its revi and it doesntwork?Would be cool to fly into the sun and see a bit more of the plane your chasing/

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 08:56 PM
Pilots goggles (I have a set) don't really restrict peripheral vision all that much.

Regards,
August

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 08:58 PM
Did anyone play that part of Medal of Honor where you had to wear a gas mask? So much vision was lost that you became disoriented. I suppose to an extent certain goggles could do that in aircraft, but you could always take them off, right?



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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 09:02 PM
A gasmask is much more restrictive. The lenses aren't as wide and they're further away from the eyes.

But you're right, goggles can be taken off. That's why they invented Aviator Glasses...

Regards,
August

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 09:04 PM
There were actually snug, wrap around, curved pane goggles with no angles in the lens, only a gentle arc, in use by the USAAF in WWII. Not dis-similar from ski goggles. Yes some range of vision must be lost but they were trained to "keep their head on a swivel". That's why they wore those silk scarves- to prevent their flight jackets from chafing their necks. "Rubbernecking" originally wasn't a term for looking at accidents by the side of the highway, it is from constantly looking around in the cockpit.



Dexmeister wrote:
- Did anyone play that part of Medal of Honor where
- you had to wear a gas mask? So much vision was lost
- that you became disoriented. I suppose to an extent
- certain goggles could do that in aircraft, but you
- could always take them off, right?
-
-
-
-
- True, but I wouldn't use MOH as a yardstick to measure realism. Fun, but not very accurate.

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 09:06 PM
Good question but I think that August is right.
I don't see peripheral vision being much of a problem in these.
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
http://www.garciaaviation.com/products/ag_p39_2.gif


http://www.garciaaviation.com/goggles.html

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 09:06 PM
And the correct term for a gasmask is - Respirator!

Hey I'm just saying/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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Tully__
06-19-2003, 09:07 PM
Pilot goggles of the era had a side pane as well as straight ahead. They don't restrict peripheral vision much at all. You can still buy brand new versions made for motorcyclists with the same setup. The best places to get them are those shops specialising in vintage motorcycles from the same era.

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 09:08 PM
Sissies wear goggles. Be tough like me. I don't need no stinking googles!...........Wait! I'm freaking blind in one eye now.................never mind....

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 09:09 PM
Yep you can even get perscription versions. Got a pair for the GF to use when she's riding her Harley.

Regards,
August

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 09:10 PM
I am actually starting to come around to your humour, Buzz. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Oh wait, yes Dr. Rorsach, it IS time for my corrective labotomy.

Oh my way now. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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Zayets
06-19-2003, 09:10 PM
Dexmeister wrote:
- Did anyone play that part of Medal of Honor where
- you had to wear a gas mask? So much vision was lost
- that you became disoriented. I suppose to an extent
- certain goggles could do that in aircraft, but you
- could always take them off, right?


Have you ever marched , do push ups or run with a gasmask on your figure? All I can tell ya is that the view is less than in MOH but you spit your lungs out after 15 minutes. Hehehehe , good ol' times ....



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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 09:44 PM
I did a lot of work with gasmasks on when cleaning liquid carriers with dangerous contents.
Apart from having no peripheral vision at all, in a minute or so they'd fog up on me and I didn't see squat /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 09:51 PM
Hat Switch + one energetic thumb

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michapma
06-23-2003, 10:10 AM
Thanks for all the responses, guys.

Except for SmokeJaguar. All he managed to do was make me laugh really hard.

Mike

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<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr valign="top"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project</font> (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="left" valign="top">Hardware issues:
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 10:48 AM
I fly open cockpit a/c in RL and have to where goggles all the time. They do not restrict periferal vision to any great degree. In combat a/c they would only be donned when engaging the enemy. In case of windscreen, canopy or instruments being shattered. And during extreme manouvers a lot of dirt and debris can be thrown around the cockpit that was on the floor. You would not want to be partially sighted even for one moment in such a situation.

I'd never join a club that would have ME as a member!!.

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 11:03 AM
Should we start a "Googles Always On-feature" dicussion?

S!

M0NS



"Blow up the outside world"

http://www.flugwerk.de/images/01k.jpg
My garage!

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 02:29 PM
Wearing goggles is exploiting the "looking like a real WWII pilot" cheat. On behalf of the entire IL-2/FB community, I'm going to have to ask you all to stop this thread, and for the moderators to lock it before it gets even further out of hand.
Thank you.