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View Full Version : Oleg are u kidding us with the 109



XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 05:57 PM
Are there no 2000HP late war 109 available not at least1 ?

NO ?

OK.

there was not even 1 no there was 2! Engines the 601 and the 605 engine that could out put (601ASCM and the 605DC)
2000HP.

but not even 1 is modelled from taht both. G6AS to K4 all the same 109?

La7 is going 610 Kmh is it not allowed for LW to fly also with that speed ?
is that fair or balanced, quess not.

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 05:57 PM
Are there no 2000HP late war 109 available not at least1 ?

NO ?

OK.

there was not even 1 no there was 2! Engines the 601 and the 605 engine that could out put (601ASCM and the 605DC)
2000HP.

but not even 1 is modelled from taht both. G6AS to K4 all the same 109?

La7 is going 610 Kmh is it not allowed for LW to fly also with that speed ?
is that fair or balanced, quess not.

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 06:46 PM
I'll try to have a K-4 with a DB605DC included in an addon.
btw there were no 601ASCM /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Butch

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 07:19 PM
pipgig wrote:
- Are there no 2000HP late war 109 available not at
- least1 ?
-
- NO ?
-
- OK.
-
- there was not even 1 no there was 2! Engines the 601
- and the 605 engine that could out put (601ASCM and
- the 605DC)
- 2000HP.
-
- but not even 1 is modelled from taht both. G6AS to
- K4 all the same 109?
-
- La7 is going 610 Kmh is it not allowed for LW to fly
- also with that speed ?
- is that fair or balanced, quess not.
-

yes very weird
but sorry pale, u will see here only hostiles arguments.
those 109 should be tunned little bit down, but no way like it is now. but maybe Oleg give e little more attention to it if somebody brings some tracks and tests.

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 08:17 PM
I agree with you totally well said, you'd have thought that with all the different 109's in the game we would have got one with the DC motor either the g10 or k4 or even a k14 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif think it would make the luftwaffe fans very happy and give the vvs a bit more of a chalenge. Its ironic that in il2 the vvs get a BL1 jet that never saw combat and we cant even have a 109 with dc motor in FB http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif



Message Edited on 08/14/03 07:23PM by johno__UK

Message Edited on 08/14/0307:24PM by johno__UK

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 08:19 PM
yes you are right i was mean 605ASCM not 601ASCM /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 02:12 PM
and for those of us out there who don't know what your talking about, what does "ASCM" and "DC" mean???

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 03:12 PM
Well not very much they are just types they called so.

the important is the first number A and D
D is a modification of A have a larger oil cooler and
may a lot of other small changes i m not a mechanic.

but u could see very well from the outside wich is the A one and wich the D.

but for the mechanics or to be accurate they put some other character after the first.

thats why ASCM.
So far i know A = engine type then C = that its useing C grad of fuel M = for methanol injektion (MW50).

DC.
C for fuel quality M is not more becouse in all D motors there was MW50 (Methanol Injektion) standard so wasnt any longer neccessary to include the M.

a D could also be used with the poor b fuel as well but only if MW50 was always on or u would damage the high quality engine with u r poor b grad fuel.

so for all motors with MW50 it was able to use poor fuel quality with out damage the engine thanks the MW50.

a D without MW50 and C fuel = 1800 HP
with MW50 and C fuel = 2000 HP


(2030HPover 600 meter and still 1800HP over 6000 meter to get in about 3 min to 5000 meter was not an issue)


a D without MW50 and B fuel = not able to operate
with MW50 and B fuel = 1800HP able to operate

now my ask is did oleg decide that in Germany 1944 there was no C fuel anylonger.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 03:47 PM
i don´t care, which engine the 109 got or get in the future, but, and a really big BUT
when the P38 makes it in the game, then good night luftwaffe jockeys. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif then you must die.

i have read that in another thread.
it must be true . /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 05:58 PM
When are they finally going to fix the G-6/AS??? It had no MW-50 in reality. It's virtually the same as G-10 now, but strangely they still differ (G-10 is a piece of crap, hardly better than G-6 early. G-14 is even worse. It's slower with MW-50 than the G-6 early).


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<p align=center style="width:100%; filter:glow[color=#33CCFF, strength=2)">

<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/willey110.jpg border=0 alt="Hier geht's zur I/JG78"> (http://www.jg78.de)

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 06:20 PM
1, G-6/AS did have MW-50, though not all of the 686 planes had it installed. The G-14/AS however, which was practically the same, had MW-50 installed in every plane.
And yes, G-6/AS or G-14/AS with MW was practically the same performance as G-10 with MW.

2,

There were 3 kinds of engines installed in the K-4:

DB 605 DM (Early a/c only)

Maximum 1800PS. Not sure what kind of fuel, I would believe it was possible with either 87octane+MW inejction, or with use 96 octane only (optionally MW use for cooling). The "M" suffix shows the use of MW-50 for the base DB 605D-2 engine of 1435PS.

DB 605DB/DC. For most of the aircraft. The "two" engines are the same, but could be set for different maximum boost, depending of available fuel (87 octane "B-4" or 96 octane "C-3"). MW-50 was used also.

Powers were as following:

DB 605DB. 1.8ata boost maximum. C-3 or B-4 fuel. Possible variatons:

1.8ata boost, B-4 + MW-50 = 1850 PS
1.8ata boost, C-3 fuel only = 1850 PS
Possibly with only B-4 fuel, 1.5ata and 1550PS was possible.

DB605 DC. Possible to set to 1.98ata or 1.8ata. Use of C-3 fuel only.

Set for 1.98ata maximum, running at 1.98ata, with C-3 fuel + MW50 = 2000PS

Set for 1.98ata maximum, running at 1.8ata, with C-3 fuel only = 1725 PS

Set for 1.8ata maximum, running at 1.8ata, with C-3 fuel only = 1800 PS

Quite some variatons possible. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I hope I understand rightly the pieces of puzzles Butch posted.

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 07:12 PM
The DB and DC were the same engine, but some parts needed to be adjusted at the reparation centers to change one into the other.

Butch

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 07:26 PM
butch2k wrote:
- The DB and DC were the same engine, but some parts
- needed to be adjusted at the reparation centers to
- change one into the other.
-
- Butch


This means that at Staffel/Gruppe level, a DB was always DB, a DC always DC, the units themselves not having the required tech level to make adjustments ?

Interesting confirmation, I was about to ask you that, I have seen some post on 109lair forum, which also said that it`s a myth that they were just swithed one into the other all the time.


BTW, what about ASB/ASC ? Were these new engine developments, or just old 605As upgraded with 605DB/DC parts? Were they also possible to convert one into the other? Oh, and finally, were these engines used in service at all? Some books list them as for 109K and also for "very-very-very-late" G-6s. A myth?



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'Only a dead Indianer is a good Indianer!'

Vezérünk a Bátorság, K*sérµnk a Szerencse!
(Courage leads, Luck escorts us! - Historical motto of the 101st Puma Fighter Regiment)

Flight tests and other aviation performance data: http://www.pbase.com/isegrim

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 07:33 PM
The ASB and ASC were only present on some G-14/AS, i'm still not sure wether they were reconverted DB605A or not.

My source about conversion of the DB into DC is the "Reparatur Anweisung 2. NachtragNr. 191/345" dated March 1945.

About the other questions you'll read about it soon...

Butch

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 07:49 PM
Thanks butch.

I very much await that article. Will there be DB/DC consumption data in it? I am looking for that at this time for my site.

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'Only a dead Indianer is a good Indianer!'

Vezérünk a Bátorság, K*sérµnk a Szerencse!
(Courage leads, Luck escorts us! - Historical motto of the 101st Puma Fighter Regiment)

Flight tests and other aviation performance data: http://www.pbase.com/isegrim

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 07:50 PM
Sorry, but the Fokker G.I owns the P-38 and thus the P-38 jockeys must/will die. Sorry. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 10:38 PM
butch2k wrote:
- I'll try to have a K-4 with a DB605DC included in an
- addon.
- btw there were no 601ASCM /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
- Butch
-


Is their realy a chance we could have a 109 with the dc engine in fB? that would be so mint...http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 10:41 PM
Boandlgramer wrote:
- i don´t care, which engine the 109 got or get in the
- future, but, and a really big BUT
- when the P38 makes it in the game, then good night
- luftwaffe jockeys.

Yup, when P-38 makes it here we (LW jockeys) can all have a good night of sleep /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 10:53 PM
hehe G14/AS will be cool with a K4 modified engine.

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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:27 AM
You already have an early G-14/AS in game equipped with a DB605ASM rather than a DB605ASB/ASC.

And yes consumption data will be included for most engine.

Butch


Message Edited on 08/16/0311:29AM by butch2k

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 02:09 PM
What is so special about the P38 ?

If I remember well the P38 was a failure when it was introduced in Europe.
Initialy introduced as the only fighter available to escord the bombers deep enough into German territory, it was never very successfull because due to its size and unique shape it was very easy to identify in real battle and because it engines had difficulties with the cold(er) european weather.

Very nice and solid machine, extremely reliable thanks to its twin engine it was able to cover the very long distances of the Asian theater without problems. But in Europe this was not an advantage of great value.

OK OK, the field of view will be magnificent from the cockpit.

I am wondering why people think that the P38 will fly any better than the jug.....

crazyivan1970 wrote:
- Boandlgramer wrote:
-- i don´t care, which engine the 109 got or get in the future, but, and a really big BUT when the P38 makes it in the game, then good night luftwaffe jockeys.
-
- Yup, when P-38 makes it here we (LW jockeys) can all have a good night of sleep <img
-
- Regards,
- VFC*Crazyivan

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:31 AM
butch2k wrote:
- You already have an early G-14/AS in game equipped
- with a DB605ASM rather than a DB605ASB/ASC.

I'm curious to know this: since the G-6/AS in FB is really a G-14/AS, why is it labeled a G-6/AS?

I/JG54^Lukas
He 162A-2 Cockpit Modeler

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 11:54 AM
Perhaps of some interest, here's the Eric Brown's text about the 109G:

http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=viewall&albumID=86052301

In my modest opinion, the 109G and K in IL-2 don't seem to me so weak. Pretty efficient when flown with a light hand!

But that's another question for the first variant of the Emil. It losts its propeller pitch setting possibiliy (most of them have manual setting, only a few improved later with automatic system) and now its RPM's are firmly fixed at 2400rpm!

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 12:40 PM
- I'm curious to know this: since the G-6/AS in FB is
- really a G-14/AS, why is it labeled a G-6/AS?
It's an early error that haven't been fixed in time before shipping of Il-2

The only G-6/AS with MW-50 and DB605ASM were the reconverted G-6/U2/AS appearing in the late summer 1944.


Butch

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 12:41 PM
Chris it's quite the contrary :
Most Emil had the auto prop pitch, only the first E-1 and E-3 had the manual system, and of course the E-4 rebuilt upon those.

Butch

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 12:50 PM
Hi,

What I would like to say is that it would have been better to let the first variant of the Emil with the manual system. With a Swiss skin, I don't feel at home in my Emil with this automatic system blocked at 2400rpm /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 02:42 PM
i have read that the rare g6/as with mw50 have red landing gear

so could the mechanic she easy different

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 03:13 PM
As i said only G-6/U2/AS could have had the MW-50 retrofitted on the original GM-1 system.
The theory most authors defend is that reg legs were used to distinguish between G-6/AS and G-6 because they had different fuel requirements.
My theory is that only those aircraft which had GM-1 system changed to MW-50 had their leg painted right. Indeed i don't think Scharwze manner were not able to tell a G-6 from a G-6/AS, they were looking sufficiently different. Moreover the fuel triangle was just under the fuel filling point !!!


Butch

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 02:56 PM
butch2k wrote:

- It's an early error that haven't been fixed in time
- before shipping of Il-2
-
- The only G-6/AS with MW-50 and DB605ASM were the
- reconverted G-6/U2/AS appearing in the late summer
- 1944.

Thanks, Butch. That's exactly what I was looking for.

I/JG54^Lukas
He 162A-2 Cockpit Modeler